Miller or Sachtler heads/tripods?

[bluefonia]

I'm researching an upgrade from my present head and tripod, which is a Weifeng 717AH. This was my first head/tripod which i bought around 3 years ago and it is actually a pretty decent set up, but now it is time to get something better. By better I mainly mean better options for drag/tilt control and balancing. The panning on the 717is actually good and smooth, but with fixed drag and rather stiff.

I use a GH4, most heavy lens is a Sigma 18-35 F/1.8 and occasionally I use Fotga rails and FF too, - in total max. 3,5 kilos. So I don't need or want a too big head. My research until now have led my to the Sachtler ACE series - M or L - and Miller AIR. I like legs without spreaders best, - can go pretty low - but makes the system more expensive as it excludes the ACE M. As I understand, opposed to the ACE, the Miller head has fixed drag and balance, but maybe better legs. Well, I also read somewhere that Miller's EU service ain't the best and parts are expensive.

Any experiences, suggestions, advices or alternatives will be much appreciated...

[The Chris]

What's your budget?

I've been looking at the Benro S8 for a decent lo-budget option since I don't use a tripod very often:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1026242-REG/benro_c373fhs8_s8_video_tripod_kit.html

There are a few good videos on Youtube, it looks like a good DSLR weight head - leveling ball, adjustable counterbalance/drag and with a set of CF sticks for $625. The AL version is cheaper, but I shoot in the sun a lot and AL sticks get really hot to the touch.

Manfrotto has some nice performing heads like the 504 HD, but it doesn't look any better than the S8.

Sachtler makes great heads, some of the best. I had the FSB-4 that accidentally got left behind at a shoot.

No experience with Miller.

[Sekhar]

I have the ACE M and am really happy with it. It's sturdy, you can move the head all you like and the legs stay put, nice. Not sure how much of that is due to the spreaders. The height is decent, but not super high, make sure you're OK with it. The head is excellent, extremely smooth, its the part I like most about the tripod. And the drag (horizontal and vertical) drag is great and really useful - your camera will stay put at any angle. Leveling with the lever below the head is convenient, but there's no light for the bubble - I was at Joshua Tree last night and had to guess the level. Hope that helps.

[bluefonia]

@The Chris:

I could go to $1.000 if necessary, but if I could keep it lower, that would of course be nice. The Benro S8 is too big for my needs. Furthermore - according to my research - it needs more weight  than my gear will ever weigh to be correctly balanced. The same goes for the Manfrotto 504 HD, - too big. And for some reason I don't quite have confidence in the smaller 502.

@Sekhar: 

I can get a brand new ACE M for $615, but I think I prefer the legs on the ACE L, which also has light for the bubble plus some improvements on the head. But the L is double the price of the M. Would you have gone for the L instead of the M if you should make the decision to day?

[Sekhar]

@Sekhar: 

I can get a brand new ACE M for $615, but I think I prefer the legs on the ACE L, which also has light for the bubble plus some improvements on the head. But the L is double the price of the M. Would you have gone for the L instead of the M if you should make the decision to day?

​Well, the L is a different beast: carbon legs, higher load cap, taller, etc. The tripod weights aren't too different and M is all I need from a load cap, etc. viewpoint, so M is still the obvious choice for me.

[The Chris]

@The Chris:

I could go to $1.000 if necessary, but if I could keep it lower, that would of course be nice. The Benro S8 is too big for my needs. Furthermore - according to my research - it needs more weight  than my gear will ever weigh to be correctly balanced. The same goes for the Manfrotto 504 HD, - too big. And for some reason I don't quite have confidence in the smaller 502.

The S8 has 4 steps of counterbalance and a long plate to find your balance. I ordered one to test for my needs. The one downside of trying to go too small/light is the lack of decent counterbalance and nice, fluid damped movements. To go light you lose some of those features or they're less adjustable. The 502 has the tilt lock knob on the right side- which is un-intuitive compared to most fluid heads that put the lock on the left. It lacks the adjustments I want as well. I don't use my tripod enough to justify twice what the S8 costs - I just want carbon sticks, the ability to go low to the ground and a decent fluid head. My last setup weighed 12 pounds and had an annoying mid-spreader that I couldn't remove, this one is a couple less and no goofy spreader. Any lighter than about 10 pounds and you're usually talking flimsy sticks or small heads at this pricepoint. I wish there were more options in the sub $1000 range. Good luck with your serach.

[Kristoferman]

Even though it's not a well-known company, I've been considering the Came tripod. They have pretty well-reviewed cranes, lights, and gimbals. 

 

http://www.came-tv.com/came15t-pro-carbon-tripod-for-red-epic-cage-dslr-rigs-p-573.html

 

Appears sturdy and you tuber Tom Antos seemed to like the fluid head. Looks sachtler-esque for a much cheaper cost. 

[homestar_kevin]

I used the 717ah for years too!  (still do use it from time to time or as a second tripod on a multicamera shoot)

When I had the funds, I picked up a used Sachtler Ace-M.

It's a step up from the 717 all around.

The head is wonderful and adjustable. For DSLRs and similarly shaped cameras, it's creamy and perfect. Very smooth and nice.

The legs are what peple usually kock on the Ace-M. For me they're still a step up from the Weifangs legs, so it's a step in the right direction.

Long term I think I'll probably upgrade the legs to a spreaderless/more photo like leg design, like the Miller legs. But that's a personal preference thing,

The Sachtler legs are certainly good enough for what I do.
 

If you have access to buy a used one, do that.

 

If you're going new the Ace is a great choice, but also see if you can check out some Vinten stuff, the miller stuff is great too.

 

Lot of nice gear out there in that price range, it just comes more to personal preferences.

[bunk]

I don't think Sirui was mentioned yet. I have the HV10 video head and it fits my needs. Bought it for around 120 euro as an introduction price.

http://www.argraph.com/images/SiruiConsumerBooklet.pdf

[TSV]

@The Chris:

I could go to $1.000 if necessary, but if I could keep it lower, that would of course be nice. The Benro S8 is too big for my needs. Furthermore - according to my research - it needs more weight  than my gear will ever weigh to be correctly balanced. The same goes for the Manfrotto 504 HD, - too big. And for some reason I don't quite have confidence in the smaller 502.

 

​I own the Benro S4. It is an "OKish" tripod in windless conditions. Put some winds (even a tiny bit) and a telephone (35-100) and you can forget about having a stable shot (even OIS Turned on). Same goes for any tiny vibration around = Having your tripod on a wooden bridge of floor with people walking around and you are XXX.

Good luck

[Cinegain]

I don't think Sirui was mentioned yet. I have the HV10 video head and it fits my needs. Bought it for around 120 euro as an introduction price.

http://www.argraph.com/images/SiruiConsumerBooklet.pdf

​Sirui makes some great stuff. Really like the N-2004 legs I've got. Great bang for buck. On top of it, like many others, I've got the WF-717AH which actually I found out about when it got mentioned here back in the day: http://www.gh1-hack.info/wiki/ShootingMoviesWithHackOnVeryTightBudget .

[bluefonia]

Thanks everyone for the inputs. In the opening post I forgot to mention that an important feature to me is a ball head/tripod. This is my current thoughts :

Berno: From own experience the AS4 is no good and the S6 probably not much better The S8 imight be a good head, but too big for my needs.

Sirui: I have a Sirui monopod w/legs and it is indeed very nice. Their heads are probably fine too, but I have no chance to try one and I can't find any detailed reviews. 

Sachtler ACE: I like the L, but the price is a little steep. The M seems good too, but I¨m not a fan of legs with spreaders.

Miller AIR: Seems very nice, probably in line with the ACE. Really like the legs, - can go low and high. I might be a little apprehensive with no drag control on the head, but if it pans smoothly and - just as important to me - pan starts and stops can be performed smoothly too, - I could probably live without the drag control. I hope someone having hands-on experience with the Miller will comment on this.