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+1 for the Digital Bolex motion cadence. Even slowed down to 18fps like an old film camera, you can tell it is different to the CMOS sensors. And I have absolut​ely no idea why

Two Luchadores face off in this battle for supremacy.

​By f5.6. Fwiw, to whomever above said the Leica lens has better DR.... that just means worse contrast. The whole "vintage" thing was set off largely because worse lenses provided a better "look" on digital cameras.

​I like your policy! Some may not agree, but from a few (sometimes many) of the comments I have read on this blog, sadly you are spot on. Wonder if there is some sort of litmus test that could weed them out... (IQ has to be greater than shoe size for example)

Interesting. I definitely have done this and like the look, but is that what people here are talking about for the most part? Seems like there's the idea here of 24 frames per second, each frame being held for the exact same amount of time. Like in some cameras you might not get "frame, frame, frame.." you'd get "frame, fraame, frame, frame, fraame.." which shouldn't have anything to do with rolling shutter. Though obviously that affects motion. And there's kind of a charm to a perfectly choppy low frame rate. Idk, are we talking about all these things added up? Feel like maybe this is too general

Personally - I dislike the really strong "DSLR" feel of the image, but I think the lens is sharp and resolves well :-)

After buying the Blackmagic Production a Global Shutter is my #1 priority. I can of course not always get it but I will trade it for Resolution and even DR at any given moment. After evaluation of what I missed in the Production Camera and what I wanted to add to the Pocket Camera it was clear as a summer morning. The D16 already had it all. The Organic texture, the motion and the color combined is the most filmic looking stuff I ever shot. Im actually going to start experimenting with how to get it to not look like film, in case I would need it. ​And spec wise it holds up very well. 5 hours internal battery, analog audio gain, 2h internal storage, above HD res, Raw, we all know the rest. Short story is that it's a serious piece of kit. Of course there is trade offs but so has every camera. Its just about figuring if one can deal with them. In the next firmware that's being tested right now is also background off load and last clip deletion.

Jonesy have fixed the storage space bug, you will now be able to upload images.

​here's the thing about the sony f35 since I have two of them - you can record 12 bit 444 DPX files out of them into the odyssey 7q and it has a lot of professional features like XLR inputs and multiple hd sdi outputs the digital bolex looks absolutely amazing - that footage was gorgeous - I think the only issue I saw was the video noise in the image - but that's pretty minor - all the footage I'm seeing looks incredible - I just wish the camera was built better - with removable ssd cards or cfast cards and a viewfinder that's more logical. her skintone - her face was gorgeous - I would be curious about this camera - but also though you have to have a viewfinder and all that too anyway the d21 is really lovely too - it's a 250 ASA camera though - the f35 is 640 ASA (that's what I rate it) - also I rate the red dragon at 320 ASA - the OLPH sensor - I rate camera's ASA based on my own artistic likes and wants in highlights and shadows. I don't listen to the "camera makers" - but motion to me is also really important, so is natural sharpness, resolution, skin tones, highlight handling, and the userbility of the camera and the weight a lot of factors - paired with lenses and filtration and you have tons of variables. Also I like how it gets people to use vintage glass on their cameras. also the control over the image you can output - so many amazing things to obsess over. also motion is magic - digital cameras may have a global or mechanical or rolling shutter - but it's also the compression and resolution of the sensor and how it interpolates this data that creates the motion feeling - one camera's 180 degree shutter will feel different than another on many complex algorithms. also the look of film - we are seeing it thru a telecine - we aren't watching 35mm film prints anymore - we know and love about film is how it got processed in its pipeline to digital or vhs or dvd or blu ray. degredation of the image this way. so film is complex too. this is all digital, nothing is organic - this isn't as simple as a bunch of photos taken together 24 frames a second - it's how the codec and interpoloation of all that data comes together and streams together to make motion and also how we view this motion on our monitors or iphones or god knows what. Before I shoot a movie I do tests then project and now projection doesn't even matter - it's how it looks on a tiny iphone.

​Must be magic! Oh wait, no, the F35 has a global shutter and the A7S has a rolling shutter. There is no magic folks. Some of you are verging on clueless audiophiles.

​In this clip you can see the difference between the A7s and the F35 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY59GQ1Hu70

Did anyone ever do a test to compare motion cadence between different cameras? I don't really care for the mathematics, numbers and graphs either, but I can't really compare when just watching random clips of random cameras.

Yes, it is really 1.8 You can look at the measured T stops on DxO: http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Sigma/Sigma-18-35mm-F18-DC-HSM-A-Canon---Measurements When comparing it to your Leica, you don't have to 'guesstimate', you could test (and confirm the aperture) by shooting in manual mode. Shoot with both lenses wide open, with the Leica use 1/50s, ISO 800 for example, and set the Sigma to 1/50s ISO 400. Brightness should be almost equal with those settings.

Most likely they do. Checkout the C-mount on m4/3 group on FB. Lots of knowledge and potential buyers there.

We had a similar discussion about this last year with some examples posted: http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/6657-camera-cadencemotion/ Other than a camera being free of distracting artifacts/moire, motion cadence is the most important characteristic of a camera for me as well. What is frustrating is that not everyone can see it (kind of like watching footage from certain digital projectors has been known to make a select few people feel nauseous; I am one of these people), and this seems to turn most discussions on the topic into a "believers" versus "non-believers" debate, with a lot of people making claims that "it's because of THIS", "no, it's because of THIS", "no, you're wrong"... etc. I've heard many possible explanations for pleasing motion, and I am not sold on any of them as THE answer just yet. I'm happy to call it "magic" for now and I'm more interested in discovering new contenders that deliver excellent motion cadence. What affordable cameras do pleasing motion cadence? Perhaps there is something already on the market that we have overlooked. Anyway, in the sub-$10K category, the D16 looks the best to me. Digital Bolex have picked up on what people are saying about the superb cadence of their camera, and they have been using it as a selling point:

​I went to Arri CSC recently. They had an Arri D21 for sale for 6 grand, 10 grand with an S.Two recorder. It's got a 4:3 sensor based on Arri's laser film scanner technology, so it's designed to emulate film's exposure curve as closely as possible. Ready to go for anamorphic. Spinning mirror viewfinder from a 435. Not saying I wasn't tempted, but especially with the S.Two hung off the back (an EOL piece of gear), it's a heavy beast, but hey, you won't find Arriraw available for less. I'm just looking forward to the day when Alexas hit the four-figure price point as well. We're just now seeing first-gen Alexa EVs touch 30K. It's got all the mojo you could ever want, but it's a bit more practical than the first generation of digital cinema cameras (F35, D21, Origin, Genesis, Viper). One thing Arri learned from the D21 program is that users wanted internal recording. Thus the SxS module on Alexa (and now the Codex inside the Alexa XT). And of course the F35 also requires a solution, somethings besides that giant SRW-1 that usually comes with it.

Wanted to reply about the idiot stuff but changed my mind. Edit On topic: go hacker's go!

Firstly, I have no idea why j named the thread "Motion Cadencemo"... those last two letters just appeared! Next.... this is already a very interesting thread. By all means we can discuss why cameras differ and how we can get pleasing motion cadence from our tools - it is just more interesting when this is an emotional reaction rather than looking into algorithms and stuff. Do what you want really! Progressing the topic, I find it weird that so many people settle for this horrible fast motion on modern TV's. I see a friends TV set and I'm like "what on earth is wrong with your TV, this expensive film looks so cheap!". I correct it and it's like a revelation - they claim I'm really smart as though I've uncovered the meaning of life by realising the motion is wrong. I've held off the FS7 as a buy because of the URSA Mini, mainly just based on motion cadence. If I had the cash to spare, I'd buy a Digital Bolex on motion cadence alone. Just imagine it became a big selling point - "Blackmagic Cinema Camera 2 - 15 stops DR! Film emulated motion cadence!" Don't you think motion cadence should be a major attribute explored in cameras? The difference it makes on an image is far more staggering to me than DR and resolution.

​Yes I think it's an excellent policy! There are enough idiots who read the blog already, don't want to attract any more idiots! Enough idiots! My policy is no idiots! If you don't agree, you're an idiot!

This is one of the first things I look for in a camera. It's almost as important to me as dynamic range. A crisp, pleasing motion cadence (similar to film at 24fps) helps induce that dreamlike state in an audience that maintains the suspension of disbelief so that the viewer can enter the story. It's one of the reasons why I'm drawn to Canon cameras over Sony, despite the inferior feature sets. Canon DSLRs and C-series cameras seem to have a more pleasant motion cadence over Sony F-series cameras. And it extends all the way up to the pro-series cameras. Every time I see a trailer for a movie shot on the F55, I can't help but feel that it looks videoish, rather than filmic. The F65 solves this problem via a mechanical shutter. Maybe the mechanical shutter seems to do a better job at providing a proper motion cadence than the electronic global shutter in the F55. That said, I have looked closely at footage from an Arri Alexa Plus (ultra-fast rolling shutter) and an Alexa Studio (mechanical shutter w/ spinning mirror) and I can't tell the difference in motion cadence. Maybe it all comes down to the way the processor reads the data coming off the sensor. This is all part of what I call "mojo". It's the inexplicable subjective feeling that's completely divorced from things like spec sheets and bit rates. If a camera feels right to you, use it. Who the hell cares if it doesn't have 4K or high frame rates? That said, I wish that CCDs would make a comeback. They always had fantastic motion cadence. I remember fondly the days of shooting on the HVX200 with a depth-of-field adapter. Even though it was a pain in the ass to use, the footage always had tremendous soul. The Canon XL2 will always be one of my favorite cameras. A CCD sensor is one of the reasons why the Digital Bolex actually feels more like Super 16 film than the BM Pocket Cinema Camera, despite the fact that they both have the same size sensor. And I would bet cold, hard currency that there are more Sony F35s being used out there right now than F65s, despite the fact that it's a dinosaur, an ancient relic from even before the Red One. A Super 35-sized CCD sensor = Mojo to the Max.

I can assure you it is not. They have indeed enabled raw video. At what frame rate and at what maximum resolution for continuous recording has yet to be determined. What sort of headline would have satisfied you sir? "Nikon Hacker Enables Raw Video And Further Development Needed To Determine Final Usable Form It Takes Along With Resolution And Frame Rate And File Sizes And Whether It Will Arrive On the Nikon D750 Or The Soon To Be Rumoured D900 Please Wait To Find Out More" Is that specific enough for you? Headline writing lesson for Araucaria. A headline such as that above isn't a headline. It's a sentence. The purpose of a headline is to grab attention with as few words as possible. For example: Forum User Is Negative Wanker That's a brillaint headline.

this is shot with the Rokinon 10mm CineDS lens t3.1 and Bmpcc / Nikon speedbooster http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1112207-REG/rokinon_ds10m_n_10mm_t3_1_cine_ds.html

I think that this is maximum that Panasonic G6 can do :-) http://vimeo.com/126045281

video picture with a camera blackmagic 2.5k, tested a slowmotion a 24fps.

​Ok I just tried the 14-140mm f4.0-f5.6 panny lens out. The 14mm side translates to a 40mm view from FF, so it's slightly wider that the "normal" 50mm on a FF. It's pretty wide I'd say but you could probably go wider with a wide lens + speed booster and something else if you wanted to. Due to the lens being slower, I found that it's hard to get any background blur but that was probably obvious. Shooting in dark doesn't seem to be a major issue at the native 800 ISO, as long as the scene is normally lit. The Mega OIS is amazing though, even zoomed in all the way it eliminated a lot of jitter. I think I'm going to keep this lens around, it's very versatile and could help get some difficult shots.