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Magic Lantern raw, 16mm film, RED One, Sony F35... What do they all have in common? They are all a pain in the ass! All fantastic yes. But definitely a pain in the ass. Magic Lantern fills up your 64GB card in 12 minutes. Sometimes it just stops in the middle of a shot. 16mm film is hardly a day to day practicality for most people. The RED One takes as long to boot as it does to go through your brick of a battery! Sony F35, don't even get me started on that hulking beast!! ---- What I would like is a bullet proof reliable camera which shoots with an image similar to Magic Lantern raw on the 5D Mark II but 10:1 compressed raw, runs on a small battery for hours and has a codec as easy to work with as the Red cameras. Blackmagic are likely to get there one day but not just yet. Then I want that putting in a C100 II or FS5 style body, with variable ND and the 5 axis IBIS from the A7S II. Give it the low light chops to match. Then we can finally at long last say... NO MORE PAIN IN THE ASS!!

Not true. You can shot slowmo in raw with the Markiii, not with Markii. Here's a video i made with my 5Diii

Yeah, pain in the ass factor does weight in heavily. Depending on the type of gig. More forgiving with something narrative. I shoot a lot of weddings currently, and pain in the ass factor makes me hate a piece of gear REALLY quick in that environment. I made fun of the C100. Until I used it. Then I got it. It just works. Not the best of all time, but very solid right out of the box. I love my bmpcc, and I overlook alot of the pains. Recently got a GH4, and man... despite not being in love with the online samples I saw, it is such a pleasant contraption to use compared to the bmpcc. Shocking, really. Tired old cliche, but I still think skill with framing and lighting pay way more dividends than camera or codec. Hell, I'm still mostly happy with my GH2 footage. The closer cameras get to ideal quality, the stronger the "how much do I hate operating this" factor becomes relevant.

I came to terms with, some years ago, that what we are discussing here is in fact.. ...Moby Dick. Always on the horizon. Always close. Just a little more. Next time... Its never gonna happen. I see it in all of us. Its easier to notice among public reviewers such as Andrew or Philip Bloom. And to some probably in my videos as well. One month a DSLR is the greatest due to its size/prize. Next month its all backwards. Form factor/features, now thats the key. In the meantime we dream of some perfect compromise. Personally Ive stoped beliving in compromise. I dont buy a hybrid tablet/laptop thing. I buy both or make a decision. When Im at the store and cant decide between chips or candy for the movie, I get both. My Red One for example. What a beast. Love it so far. Can I use it today while skeeing? Nope, so I will use a GoPro. Unless I just want to film others skeeing... And I dont want a compromise that does everything nice. I want them to be great. And then I just have to face having two cameras, renting or just decide what Im willing to skip. When owning only a BMCC you decide that look goes before slowmo. With a D750 you sacrifice bitrate and resolution. With the R1 obviosly easy portability gets left behind. But they all give somehing back. Lots of whales out there. Might as well pick an easier target than that basterd at the horizon No point here, just some thoughts. (btw, bootup isnt unworkable. I turn it on and its usually done before I have framed and everything. (You get picture while you whait)) (Im not saying whale hunting is ok, because its not.)

In case anyone is interested, I thought I'd share this Kickstarter project: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2044759634/hercules-the-worlds-smallest-camera-motion-control?ref=email

Yes I do have the MKII. The DPAF is amazing. If I'm using it handheld I'll use the Canon 17-55, or 24-105. It's very liberating to use this camera b/c the native battery will run for hours, the SD cards will run for hours, it's rock solid but lightweight, the ISO range is super wide. It really does just get out of the way and let you shoot.

Here's a quick test in my kitchen. GH4 plus Panasonic 12-35. OIS off.

Uploading now, 250MB zip with following: Scene 1 4K 8bit SLOG 2 (Color mode: Stills) WB 3200, 1/50 4K 8bit SLOG 3 (Color mode: S.Gamut3.Cine 3200K) 1/50 1080p 10bit SLOG 2 (Color mode: Stills) WB 3200, 1/50 Scene 2 4K 8bit SLOG 2 (Color mode: Stills) WB 3200, 1/50 1080p 10bit SLOG 2 (Color mode: Stills) WB 3200, 1/50 If there's anything else you guys want to see let me know.

I went to see the 3 hour roadshow version at one of the locations in Florida with the custom 70mm projectors installed. The attributes of film were magical and did not dissapoint. In my opinion it kicks the best digital has to offer to the curb. The overture and intermission were also a classy throwback, but........in spite of the amazing format and talent, the whole thing left me empty and uninspired. Extremely long drawn out takes seemingly unnecessary to the story. Stage like lighting. Unmotivated to the scene nuclear highlights (table tops inside cabin). Racial themes that left one wondering whether Tarantino intended for the audience to laugh uneasily or have empathy for the characters. At the very least I expect to be mildly entertained and at best to gain insight or a perspective from another's point of view. It's like experiencing the most expensive meal on the menu and then after digesting it, realize a simple homemade meal is far more tasteful and satisfying.

I buy most of my stuff used. Simply because you get more for your money. And it was during the release of the A7rii and A7sii that I got the idea. Why pay such a premium price for a camera thats going to be worth half within a year? And what can I get for the same amount today?(It was the same reasoning that lead me into my recent film endeavor.) So I found myself looking at used cameras in the €3000 segment. At the top of my list where the Sony F35, but no luck (since I needed a recorder as well). I also looked at URSA, FS700, 1DC etc but none was a perfect match.So I started lurking the Red user forum.There I saw Red Scarlets ready to shoot with accessories for as low as $6000. And when I saw the Red One with everything you need + a set of Rokkinon prime lenses for a crazy low $4000,I knew it would be the one. That particular seller didn’t want to ship to Sweden, but another one did. In less than 24h from leaving Spain, this huge box sat on my floor. (Disclaimer: All IMO of course, totally get why one would rather have an A7rii, its was just my personal thoughts.)

So this is absolutely not a scientific test, but I was curious how the A7Rii would hold up to my 1DC, which I believe gives a wonderful cinematic image, especially when filming people. Chalk it up to Canon's color science, a great sensor, 4:2:2 color, whatever -- but at current used prices I think the 1DC is a steal (and it takes amazing stills) That said, it's also getting long in the tooth, and the A7Rii was an attractive potential upgrade, especially with 42mp stills, IBIS, and small body that makes gimbal work manageable. But I wondered how it would fare image-wise, especially when it comes to skin tones. I didn't want to use S-Log2 or C-Log, since I don't have any experience grading S-Log2 and I know it can be a challenge, especially on the 8-bit codec. So I shot my 1DC in the neutral profile with sharpness and saturation down, which is what I normally do when not using C-Log. I did my best to match it on the A7Rii -- Andrew's EOSHD Flat settings (Cine4, Black levels up, Detail down, Saturation down a bit) come quite close actually, but I used Pro gamma as Cinema gamma just made the reds look off. Again, this is by no means a scientific or extensive test, and I did very little grading (no LUT, just a single color correction layer in FCPx). And I'm sure someone could do a better job matching the shots, but this at least gives you a sense of the general differences. My big question was whether I could easily get an image out of the A7Rii that could compete with the 1DC without a ton of post work. Both cameras are using the same white balance, ISO, and aperture, although the crop factor is slightly different due to APS-H vs APS-C. I used a Canon 50mm/1.2 on both cameras, and both are handheld with no loupe to stabilize, making it easy to tell which camera is which due to Sony's IBIS. Although I did a number of tests, here's a quick comparison for those interested. This is 4k scaled down to 1080p to make it easier to share: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2135/1DC-A7Rii-Test.mov Here's a frame grab from FCPx that's higher-res (1DC is zoomed slightly to match so will look less sharp when viewed at full res): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2135/1DC-A7Rii.jpg My personal opinion thus far: The A7Rii can indeed put out a beautiful image when filming people, although it's still not quite as gorgeous as the 1DC. This could be because the 1DC is slightly softer (maybe due to the low-pass filter, so perhaps the A7Sii could be better) and the A7Rii sensor detail just doesn't benefit skin (most photographers end up smoothing skin a bit, I imagine), or due to color, or maybe I just need to spend more time tweaking Sony's insane number of settings. It seems like the 1DC has smoother highlight roll-off, and just gives a touch of softness that benefits people, making it *feel* a bit better to me, even if it's technically inferior. That said, it's close (some might prefer the A7Rii look). And with the A7Rii I gain a lot of great video features the 1DC does not have. Don't know if I'm quite yet ready to retire my Canon and go all in on Sony... but it's tempting and I will be keeping an eye on FS5 firmware updates. Curious to hear from anyone else who has worked with the A7Rii or A7Sii when it comes to filming people.

All big announcements are like that, from 'the best thing in the universe', to 'oh my god what a pile of shit' but finally settling on 'a potentially useful interesting new tool'

The combination of the 2.2 crop factor in 4k and the Nikon F mount makes for a really uninteresting camera in my opinion. It's like shooting a GH4 with adapted DSLR lenses but no option of a speedbooster. I see it as a pure spec sheet gimmick for marketing. I went from "omg I need it!" to "why would anyone use that?" in the time between the anouncement and people posting the specs.

We have a GH4 and C300 II- the C300 II color, especially skintones is excellent (I did tweak it- not using the out-of-the-box settings). The AF is very, very useful (including assisted MF). The C100 II is a major upgrade from the GH4 in terms of color, AF, low light performance, and pro audio (XLR). A useful test is to show talent/clients multiple cameras and not tell them which is which. Canon cameras are chosen more often than not (if we had an ARRI camera, would be interesting to see how it does against Canon).

Not sure if you've read Andrew's post about 7d raw: http://www.eoshd.com/2013/08/raw-video-on-the-canon-7d-super-35mm-raw-for-under-1000/ The 7D really needs the Mosaic filter to help reduce aliasing. With the filter it's a great camera for raw since it takes CF. Edit: All this 5D2/forgotten camera excitement got me looking on craigslist. I found a wedding photographer selling her used 5D2 body for $500. ~140k actuations and some scratches on the screen. Talked her down to $480, just met up and bought it. Maybe you should consider selling your 7D and getting a used 5D2 since prices are getting very low. The deal I just got is extremely lucky but I see another on craigslist for $700. Now I can finally do some 5D2 vs 5D3 raw comparison tests of my own. I can post the results if people are interested.

It will cost 2000$, this is not a camera for anyone on this forum. Oh LOL LOL, the D5 crops to DX. http://chsvll.nikon-image.com/products/slr/lineup/d5/pdf/d5.pdf

Way to dump thousands of sales down the drain Nikon... Note the red box.

Maybe they do take after Samsung after all... D500... NX500...

http://chsvimg.nikon.com/lineup/microsite/d500/common/pdf/technology-digest.pdf

More info is available in this PDF on Nikon's website: http://chsvimg.nikon.com/lineup/microsite/d500/common/pdf/technology-digest.pdf Strangely enough, the D500 can record up to the full 29:29 in 4K mode, but on the D5 it's limited to just three minutes! EDIT: On further inspection, it seems that the D500 does full-pixel readout from a 4K area in order to get the video. Definitely better than line-skipping, though it's going to leave the effective crop quite near the m4/3rds level.

It will have Active D-lighting in 1080p (a shame it's not on 4K). This means very high dynamic range in video. Challenging video exposures are no problem for the D500, as it also adds in Active D-Lighting to Full HD video to balance exposure values within a scene to help prevent blown-out highlights

I'm almost (selfishly) hoping this could also mean the video on the D5 is of a very high quality,,, maybe 10 bit 4:2:2.... Of course, i'd love it in both... but if they have separated the very high end with amazing video quality, it is still a win

Nice, this will be much more affordable than the D5 I expect although more than a D7200 obviously. Super 35mm video from a great Nikon sensor in 4K with nice codec and flat profile from the D750. Still waiting for the full details on video spec. CES hall full of clueless stills people

This is probably the NX1

If it caries the IQ similar to a D750 its a total winner. I love the image from the D750, much more than the NX1 or GH4.

I'd say the DR is the same as GH4. Color is better on C100. Codec and resolution are lower quality. I love using V Log 10 bit but there's something about just good ole 1080 Super 35mm that gives a nice unique look compared to GH4.

And the image is really nice. How do you like it compared to the GH4 image? Low light is obviously worse on the GH4, but dynamic range, colour, codec, resolution (I downsample 4K in post on the GH4, which I'd guess is very similar to what the C100 does in camera)? Thanks again Aaron. I've liked your GH4 stuff - it's good to hear your thoughts.

For docs and promos I'd suggest C100ii. It is the perfect camera in that price bracket. I think you'd get a more cinematic/rich image from the URSA but you'll also deal with bigger files.

You obviously cut that bit from the unboxing video. I know you were excited but there are some things that don't need to be shared ...

Inspire 1 Pro and RAW models just announced: http://www.dji.com/product/inspire-1-pro-and-raw New propellers and motors (and color)

Great find, would be cool if we often shared finds like this.

hell yea I shot that Running Brooklyn thing on the f35. Also I use the Red One MX a ton and swear by its image, more than the Red Epic, Dragon, bla bla bla. It's only weakness is highlight roll off and also it takes 2 minutes to boot so you need to have two batteries on it, and hot swap them.

Great write up. 5Dii, had one. If anything its probably the most comfortable DSLR I ever held in my hands. (second and third is the Nx1 and D750). I still adore my BMCC 2.5K. I remember how the size once was an issue, quite funny today. And with just a Zacuto Top Handle and quick plate for the tripod or a Rigg made from scrap pieces its actually a light little thing. The F35 is magic imo. I am so getting one sooner or later. It wasn't in the stars just yet but Im hoping it will still drop some more. 1DC is a camera I have yet to try. But since Ive used plenty of C-Log, other canons, etc I feel I can imagine how I would like it. And I think it would be a lot. The Red One is still new in my house. Its like getting a puppy. You like it but its also a learning curve. Lots of love with some pee on the floor

The funny thing is, i think indie community were making great strides towards demanding the right things from a camera... and the industry were starting to listen, then 4K came around and alot of people were again ready to accept 4:2:0, 8 bit, low bitrate etc just to get 4K. Hopefully when we all have the camera described in Andrew's post... We don't then collectively dump it all for 8K, 4:2:0 etc!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxcnsr1R5Ge_fbTu5ajt8DQ Anyone/everyone can be an artist with research and practice. Just like anyone can be a technologist. Different people have different pain thresholds and give up on one, the other, or both. In the tech world, some folks look at you funny if you also display art skill. In the art world, when folks state they aren't good with tech: they could be better with more effort. Natural ability in either matters, however anyone can do both with hard work: it's a matter of passion.

Earlier in this very old thread a comparison was made between the Canon 85/1.2 + Speed Booster and the Nocticron for m43. If indeed the Nocticron is the sharper of the two (likely), then my point was that the problem lies in the Canon 85/1.2 and not the Speed Booster. After all, the latest generation of Speed Boosters is capable of improving on Zeiss Otus sharpness even while increasing the speed to f/1.0 or faster, and I can prove it. So, the 85/1.2 is a fine lens, but if pure sharpness is your metric then it is outclassed by a Zeiss Otus, and is even further outclassed by a Zeiss Otus + Speed Booster. Seriously.

Thanks for continuing to push companies and their sponsored filmmakers to put out better products and own up.

The easiest, most foolproof, and filmic cameras to shoot are the ARRI Alexa, Amira, and Mini, shooting to ProRes. That's why they're the most used professional cameras when cost is no object. When cost is considered, the Canon C300 II and C100 II are really an amazing value, especially for small crews without a focus puller. Zero or minimal post work with these cameras can produce results that look amazing, especially the hardest to color: skintones. The FS7 still requires a bit of work in post (not so much with continuous spectrum light sources), however folks who need high FPS and 4K are willing to deal with it. The Panasonic Varicam has looked pretty good, but isn't used much. At that price point folks seem to prefer Red or ARRI. Red has a ProRes option (and their latest color science is looking really good), however most folks appear to stick with compressed (wavelet) RAW which can be edited natively in Premiere Pro and FCPX. Using a Canon 5D3, Nikon D8x0 or similar to shoot reference RAW stills along with an A7S II or A7R II (much better autofocus and slightly better skintones than the A7S II) can work well if on a low budget. The RAW reference stills can be graded in ACR, then saved and brought into the NLE to match color with the Sony video. Still a bit of work, but you can get pretty efficient with some practice.

Thanks Nate for all these tests. We have shared some a7rii settings here: http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/9191-playing-with-sony-a7r-ii-heres-my-fav-picture-profile-post-yours/#comment-103712 Its amazing that Sony has provided a method to match cameras with the picture profiles and very few people actually play with it. It would be of great great value if while you are doing the test that Ebrahim suggested, to try and match the colors of a7rii with the 1dc by playing with color phase and color depths (probably with a cine gamma so you can see it in camera...). Then people can just use these settings if they wish to have a 1Dc profile with their Sony's. No need to color grade every time! Edit: Find the color matrix that best matches the Canon colors before start playing with the settings... I would guess Pro, Cinema or Movie would be it. You will find more information on the picture profiles in the following link: http://helpguide.sony.net/di/pp/v1/en/contents/TP0000909111.html From here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://docs.sony.com/release/Help_C198100111.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwis8M2Y1JHKAhVQ7GMKHfnyDW8QFggnMAQ&usg=AFQjCNFq1tYWvMsGfbF0GLBSTj4mcktgsg&sig2=tg-TYrEDf3hhv7gSIbV9tw Again, I would be grateful if you could play with the picture profiles.

Sometimes we can concentrate on the camera 100%, really work it like an artist's paintbrush. Sometimes we have to apply our focus to the actors instead, to the lights, the other stuff. Therefore, unless we have a crew with many people, different roles, you are going to have to split your focus. I would love to have a crew to do all the directing, lighting, carrying my 10kg camera and sticks around for me, making me breakfast, cooking me pie, slipping me a glass of wine in-between shots with my RED ONE! But the real world doesn't often work like that does it?

Just some test footage for now...I'm shooting a 3 min. short next Sat to test skintones, DR, + 96fps:

I also want to like this new generation of Sony cameras. Ever since magic lantern blew the lid off canon DSLRs by enabling RAW, I've been expecting an HD/2K camera to come along that offers similar quality in proper shape at a decent price. Instead its all 4K smoke and mirrors, delivered with flaky, pain in the ass codecs.

Old thread, but thought I'd mention that I got this in the mail today. Hoping to test it a little more tomorrow. First impressions are that it's solid. Holds a GH4 with 12-35 lens no problem. The motor is a little noisy but that's about the only downside I've seen.

The G7 actually looks quite good in this test. Good DR.

Another re-edit : I realized, I stopped taking pictures almost completely, and instead use only framegrabs...The quality is simply outstanding, and quite honestly, the gap between photo and video has become so thin, its barely noticeable.

You did a good job in matching the skin tones across two very different LOG profiles. It proves again it can be done! Canon LOG is just easier but once you get S-LOG all the way there, it's easy to keep it there. You don't need to keep reinventing the wheel once you have a workflow and a LUT that suits you. Skin tones are very sensitive to what you do with the red channel. If the A7R II looks to sharp remember you can always add a light gaussian blur in post!

NICE~! color is looking p darn good from that a7rii... great work Nate! v interesting info thanks for posting

Refund! Aside from that, when I went the projector ran fine. And it was fun to hear the film spooling, see the scratches, watch the image registration drift through the gate. The narrative didn't work though. Not an exceptional film regardless how it was shot. Appealing to my inner-tech-geek, (hey! They used the same lens as Ben Hur!) but otherwise nothing too remarkable as a movie...not on the a-list level anyway. The director is too indulgent with his style and it was more weary than vibrant on this go 'round. Liked watching Russell do his "Jack Burton meets John Wayne" character though.

This was shot entirely hand held with the GH4, 12 35 2.8. Edited on Premiere Pro, with post stabilization. CineD @4K 25p

Longest title ever for a video! This is a test to see if I can make these cameras feel like film - which one gets closest? So SHOOT OUT! CAM A - Sony F35 recording 444 GRB 12 bit DPX files into the Oydssey 7Q+. Slog - gamma. DCI P3+ as Gamut. 180 shutter. CAM B - Red One MX recording 4k 16x9. Red DragonColor 2 as gamut and Red Log Cine as Gamma. Same 50 mm Sony PL lens. 180 shutter on both. Applied same lut to both! Visioncolor impulz Kodak 50.FPE with red log gamma setting to it. Added gorilla grain. First leg - normal color correct 2nd leg - pushing color to extreme My Results: 1. Red One and F35 can match pretty easily - shutter on f35 was less staccato at 180 shutter - maybe at a 144 degree shutter motion can match perfectly 2. F35 can be pushed a heck lot more color wise 3. F35 has better highlight rolloff - very organic. Red one mx looks like how the panasonic hvx200 handles highlights - very video-e 4. Red One has more resolution - shot some test charts to show that Overall F35 I think matches film a lot more because of how it handles highlights - the motion on it, maybe I need to shoot at 144 degrees to give it a little more choppiness, maybe that would help - anyway it's all personal taste at this point. And there is super 16mm film shot by Hunter Hampton as the baseline - this is what I want my stuff to look like -I love film. Let me know thoughts.