Leaderboard

Other than not having S35 I think the GH4 is still a front runner for small camera features/quality. Sony isn't offering 10bit4:2:2 output on their A7 and 6000 series. Like others have said if they offer S35 with the ability to record 12 bit RAW on the Odyssey, 1-120fps, that would be an excellent upgrade. VLogL thru 10 bit is highly under rated in my opinion.

Last week you were saying you didn't care about 4k... Now it's all about 6k?! I'd much prefer internal 10bit 4:2:2 (or compressed raw)... Better DR and low light.

No, no, no. I don't want a Super 35 sensor in a GH5. I REALY LIKE the Micro 4/3 size sensor. It makes focusing easier than S35, yet still has enough shallow depth of field to look cinematic. I don't care for Speedboosters. I love using my Voigtlander and Lumix lenses on my GH4, and would want the GH5 to shoot on a 5K or 6K m4/3 sensor downsampled to 4K in camera. 10-bit 4:2:2 internal 4K would be an incredible way for the GH5 to separate itself from everything else in the market. I don't want to use S35 or FF lenses. I WANT my lenses to remain small. I want my whole kit to remain small. There are tons of other cameras out there right now that use S35 or FF sensors. I don't want to pay for a large sensor if I'm just going to use a 4K crop from it because of all my m4/3 lenses. If you want S35 or FF, buy a different camera. Get the Sony A6300 or something else. Leave the GH series Micro 4/3 sensor, because there are a lot of us that find it the perfect size sensor. What I want in a GH5 (in order of importance to me): Micro 4/3 sensor Internal 10-bit 4:2:2 4K ISO 3200 as good as the current ISO 800 of the GH4 4K 60p No lag on the HDMI output V-Log included Keep the same style body & battery so all GH4 accessories work

Would rather the focus be in dynamic range, super 35 sensor, color and 10bit or raw output than 6k.

If you think that Panasonic will abandon the M43 format for the GH5 then you are crazy. Not gonna happen. I will live stream my seppuku on EOSHD if that happens. What will happen is that Panasonic will eventually introduce their newly developed "organic" sensor tech into the GH camera line. This will give them performance better than the current generation of full-frame cameras but in the small M43 form factor. I'd guess 2017 or later. As for 6K, why? There is approximately zero demand for 6K and it's technically unfeasable for any number of reasons. A more reasonable step would be for for Panasonic to have the GH5 record 10-bit 4:2:2 4K internally, but even that would be beyond the capability of the SD card format for reasonably low compression.

We all have our wants... Personally I don't want to see Super 35 in the GH5 as I prefer the M43 format. As long as they can squeeze ISO up to 12600 and improve DR it's golden. I much prefer the smaller lenses and portability of the current Lumix lineup. If I wanted anything larger, Sony already has it, but you don't see me jumping ship even with all that ISO range they have. Based on the recent news of Panasonic sensors something tells me they can achieve these small bumps in features. 6K or 8K would certainly be nice as an option, but really if I had a choice between that and clean 4K 60fps or 120fps that is the route I would prefer.

I actually wouldn't buy that camera if it was 8bit 4:2:0 People need to start shouting from the roof tops that it is no longer good enough. Whether Andrew chooses to believe it or not, the combination of 10 bit and 4:2:2 (or higher) is where you can really start to get the best out of log footage. I don't want to climb a mountain for 6 hours to then find my shots ruined by banding. 10 bit solves this issue and really helps the log curve store the information correctly.

Out of curiosity: is it possible to compare the fw for nx500 and nx1 in order to implement in nx1 the choice of having cropped 4k, for digital lossless zooming in video?

Looking at the drime5 kernel source I was pleasantly surprised to see that there is actually quite a lot there. I expected that they would probably do like almost every Android phone does and include all the important drivers as binary blobs, but it looks like most of the HEVC encoder driver is actually right there in the open-source part. Of course the code that actually sets the bitrate is in the closed-source camera application, but knowing which functions are used to actually pass the parameters to the driver should make it easier to find where to look in the closed-source part. Another pleasant surprise was that the firmware update files look fairly straightforward to unpack. I'm no expert in reverse engineering, but judging by a cursory examination, the level of wacky encryption/obfuscation I've seen in the firmware updates for other devices doesn't seem to be present in the NX1 files. At least that's my impression from browsing the files for an hour or two. It's always possible I could be completely wrong.

From a size perspective... the A5100 and A6000 are smaller than GH4. All APS-C stills cameras are aimed at the consumer crowd and priced accordingly/affordable (except perhaps the 7D & Hasselblad Sony rebrands). Just about all fullframe cameras are aimed at the enthusiast/prosumer/pro crowd and priced accordingly as well. There's a big gap in between APS-C and FF. Yet, between M43 and APS-C not so much. So from a costs perspective, I'm not sure why you'd oppose it either, if anything, APS-C actually seems the more mainstream, convenient and economical option to go with. Lenses... I have seen small enough lenses on Sony E-mount cameras as well. You don't want to use other than M43 lenses with your S35 camera... ok, fine, don't. You can still use your M43 line-up lenses and have the sensor cropped accordingly, acting as a 4/3" sensored camera. Don't see why introducing a new line-up is a bad thing? Mutliple manufacturers have more than one specific sensor area covering mount. Panasonic has to keep up. Easy as that. You can't just magically make a sensor suddenly be hell of a lot more sensitive... but what's always an easy fix is increasing it's size. And as I said before, I think APS-C is where it's at. Sure they could introduce a fullframe system or a strictly APS-C one... but that's bad. You already have a eco system... and you want to give the people already shooting a Panasonic, having a bunch of native lenses to not start a system with like 3 lenses that will work natively only. Introducing a S35 camera that takes an existing lens eco system and expands on that with a new line-up... I think it's a smart move. Sure you could say 'well, if that's your philosophy, then you can also make it a fullframe camera and make it take M43 and act as a 4/3" sensored camera', well, you're forgetting why people love the GH-series then. S35 just makes sense. To me atleast. I'd like to see it. Don't find it too far fetched at all.

That's a battery drain, a pain to pair every time you turn on the camera and also unreliable, occasionally jerky and mostly pixilated. No thanks However since the Inogeni acts as a capture device, you don't know how much of the workload this takes over from the Android phone or tablet. The Android device might need to do very little with the signal once it has been converted to USB 3 by the capture device, which I am sure has dedicated hardware in it for the job. The general purpose CPU on the tablet probably doesn't need to do much. Just my opinion. If you have any hard evidence why the opposite is true I'd like to hear it and broaden my understanding. I am surprised there's so much chatter about this and so few people willing to just TRY it. No harm in that is there? I am tempted to find one on Amazon and return it if it doesn't work, no harm in trying.

Interesting post, Andrew. However, I do not believe Panasonic would change the sensor size in the GH line to S35 for many of the reasons already mentioned. I also don't want them too. I've been using the GH line of cameras for my business for the last 4 years. They are small, have a lovely detailed image, and most importantly of all they have never let me down. With the GH4 they finally got to a professional standard body. It is rock solid, has best-in-class battery life, it never overheats, and has no recording limits. Panasonic have played to their strengths beautifully. Apparently they sold way more GH4s than they were anticipating and it would be a strange move to throw that progress away when they now have a fan base. I hope to start make narrative films this year and will have no qualms using the GH4 for the job too where I can use my Nikon lenses with a speedbooster and achieve an S35 look if I desire.

Great post as always Andrew, but my concern is what we might LOSE if the GH5 goes with a larger sensor. What Panasonic has done so well with the GH line is exploiting all the benefits of a smaller sensor. For instance, if a m43 sensor means giving us 240fps at 1080p as opposed to 120fps on a s35 sensor, I would go with the m43 sensor every time. Hell, maybe we could even get a global shutter this time around? At any rate, there are certainly many benefits of a smaller sensor that can potentially outshine the step up to s35. I still think Panasonic should continue separating this format by offering kick ass specs that larger sensors can't offer. That might even mean having to do a complete technology overhaul for m43, which it sounds like they are already working on. See below. http://blog.planet5d.com/2016/02/a-sensor-that-can-shoot-in-starlight-panasonics-apd-cmos-could-change-low-light-forever/

I'd like to have the VariCam LT in a smaller body for $999 please. Doesn't have to have XLR.

A crop sensor lens without a focal reducer is really missing a trick. I never use my Lumix Micro Four Thirds glass now, with a few exceptions (SLR Magic 10mm) for the look. Another few ways the GH5 could distinguish itself: Global shutter 2K raw with compressed codec 10:1 (like RED) - long shot as RED have most of the patents! 2K Cinema DNG raw compressed 4:1 (doable) Foveon sensor tech (long shot but Panasonic are working with Fujifilm on something similar) Big step up improved colour and dynamic range 2.8K instead of 4K or 6K - smaller files, easier to edit But that 2x crop sensor still lets it down, even with all that... Super 35mm is run of the mill easy to do... so just do it! Well this is exactly what the Sony A6300 and Samsung NX1 are doing my friend... 6K = 20MP at 24fps+ NX1 has no heat issues A6300 remains to be seen

Bigger sensor size is good and all. But I would like more DR, better highlight roll off, less noise and improved color science even if only at 1080p in a better codec.

I could live without 6k. Want high DR. And 4K RAW to the Shogun instead. Otherwise I would probably buy it. But the NX1 sounds pretty close to it. A NX2 would be nice, if they pick it up again.

I reckon the did it so the user can play the H265 directly into their Samsung TV's

The Video Devices PIX lineup manages to record 4k ProRes to USB 3 hard drive enclosures. Integrating such a system into a camera could be pretty revolutionary.

It's all about the codec parameters. They chose file size over detail. They could have made it so that the user could choose.

I'm quite sure that if nx1 could output in 4:4:4 10/12bit, it would sell so many units that samsung could even think about starting again the production :-P

I'll play! I say something in the toddler zone. Am I warm or way off? My kid is 2 and I am constantly amazed at the ingenuity of some of you youtubers when it comes to kids videos. A video of a person opening surprise eggs to reveal toys has 223,181,749 views in less than one year. Anyways, thank you for your response. I think it sheds light on some other areas of video that people sometimes feel intimidated to explore. For some its easier to imagine making a creative short as creatives are naturally introverted and prefer to work without criticism until final delivery. that kind of continual dialogue with your audience, with comments, instant view counts to measure success and such would shut most people down. But it actuality may be even harder to crack the mainstream path than 'selling out' by following the whims of the audience.

I know, but my point is that Panasonic is clearly ready to put a great camera in the market even if it uses competitors mount because they don't have their own solution, so what is the problem with S35 GH5, especially if it is still able to use regular M43 lenses and has native mount.

..

talking of great cine zooms - I have been having talks with Tokina's distributors about the Tokina CINEMA ATX 50-135mm T3 cine zoom they make . http://www.tokinacinema.com/50-135mmT3.html this looks great as I'm a big fan of long lenses , Imagine this paired with Metbones XL making a T2/f1.8 zoom , I'm going to see if I can borrow one to test.

you will need to get permission from the publisher of the book or you will face legal action for copyright violations - contact them asn ask - get it all in writting

Whoa !!! What's wrong with Everyone on EOSHD??? Andrew didn't say a super 35mm sensor. Only a 35mm size crop (with a M4/3) lens setup. Sensor will be the 1.86 crop like on the GH2, not the smaller 2.0 Crop like on the GH4. There could be a Panasonic built-in equivalent of the Metabones lens booster. Whatever is needed basically for a wider frame.

Perhaps you can submit a clip of something that does blow you away so we have some frame of reference of the standards you find acceptable...

No, no, no! Dear Panasonic, please don’t listen to Andrew. He’s a nice guy, but this time…. :-) I don’t think, businesswise it would be a clever decision. From my consumer segment point of view, it wouldn’t be an attractive one either. The main benefit from the MFT is not the FT, but the “M”. Micro! If somebody wants “full-frame”, than buy a full-frame camera. MFT gives the best size/quality compromise. There is no perfect camera, no “one size fits all” system. Size-quality-price is all important but antagonistic factors! I don’t want to invest into speedbusters and co. and I certainly wouldn’t buy a camera, i.e. pay for features, I could only use with other lenses. That’s the whole idea with having a system. I want a light and efficient gear, exactly as MFT is. Actually, I would rather ask Panasonic for the opposite. Make the new sensor with fewer pixels. I would love to see a native 4K MFT sensor with app. 8 MP. but with excellent low light capability. Aka a7s… Full pixel readout and no mathematics, how to make 4K from 6K, instead of that, using the processor for more color and dynamic range. God forbid it, even RAW :-) Of course, 8-10 MP would not be so attractive for some photographers, but that’s why, there are other cameras. You can’t please all. In business strategy, segmentation is like DoF, it’s about taking choices, focusing. I certainly hope, Panasonic would not change their focus :-)

NO, I wold not like an APS-C sensor on Gh5! A multi aspect m4/3 24 MP sensor with 6K video recording, 4K downsampeld from 6K, 10 bit and 4:2:2 internal recording, better AF (especially for video), a better audio DAC, Vlog 2, 60p 4K, better DR and Low light capabilities and a better body would do the trick at 1799$ for me.

Depending on your lenses you can convert the mount to nikon with the leitax conversion kit, it's not a hard modification, just a little bit costly.

The low light high ISO performance could be improved with better S/N firmware even with M/43. Why do you think the Nikon D810 iso improved so much over the D800 or even the 12mp D700. Now the D810 does not have the exact pixel density as the GH4, but this still applies. But with all that sound I agree I would rather have a super 35mm or full frame image. I would really like to see a color space improvement. Nikon has a beautiful color space. Improving color should not only be on Panasonic's to do list, but Sony's as well. If not then just gives us RAW and go home.

I really doubt Panasonic will go super 35mm, JVC sure did it but GH5 as a micro four thirds stills camera won't be allowed to be separated from other models that significantly, yet i really hope that they will go for multi aspect sensor, that is closer to super35 than m43. Regarding sensor size, to my taste the Blackmagic Pocketcamera with it's small sensor is still capable of delivering one of the most lush images around in the sub 3000 $. Im far from pro, but i really love the size advantage i can get from m43. My camera + three lens system fits easily in my jacket pockets (Lumix GM1, Lumix 14mm F2.5 (+11mm adapter if needed), Mitakon 25mm F0.95 and Lumix 42.5mm 1.7 O.I.S.

just a nit pick but i might be wrong, wouldn't a 24mp sensor be to low resolution for 6k? Isnt 6k 6144 x 3249? meaning it would be a, atleast 25mp sensor.

I did, it's a pipedream wishlist. Yes, M43 lenses would still work on an s35 sensor, with some kind of crop mode (both video AND stills)... That is not a business strategy that any sane company will adopt though. The GH5 will be optimised for THEIR lens range and their loyal non video centric users who will have a stack of m43 lenses. It would be a PR disaster. A bunch of features that don't even work with their lens line up. "Shoot 24mpx stills, unless you have our lenses, in which case "shoot 16mpx lens"... yea, great sales pitch. If you want to have pipe dreams, fair enough... Just ask for a completely new lines of cameras, with a range of Panasonic s35 lens.

Reading this thread just reminds me why Panasonic is still a viable option!

I am really interested in the metabones XL but 450 bucks is a lot to spend on an adapter. I have heard good things about the Kippon's Baveyes. They don't have the .64x as the metabones, but there's is s touch better at .7 than the rest. Plus they are starting to float around eBay for less than 200.

How is the Scarlet sensor better? It's not all about specs. I prefer the image of 2k from an Alexa over 6k Red. Better colors, fleshiness, range, etc. If this camera owes anything to Panasonic's history, it's color science should be amazing. The old 2/3" three chip Varicams from ten years ago had better more accurate color than the latest Red of today. I can't see Panasonic going backwards in terms of color science. The only misgiving I have about this camera is that I wish the body were even smaller (under 4 lbs). I'd be curious to see how it'll stack up to Kinefinity offerings.

scary is right. depressing too why cant technology SAVE us from this to SOME degree? at least make it way harder for pirates? a motivated person is going to rip your video no matter what it takes, but what if my film was available for download not as a video file but an application which needs a time sensitive key? or something?? idk i have no idea but im gonna figure some shit like that out. if that means that you cant watch the film w/o an internet connection, so be it if youre louis ck and you have a loyal audience youve built over a lifetime of touring and making shows than you can get away with a lot of shit that poor people like me can not thank GOD im shooting for the fine art business first and foremost. nothing much has changed there in the last 30 years ? great article by zak btw http://filmschoolrejects.com/opinions/movie-worth-stealing-filmmaker-piracy-experience.php thanks lafilm

the grading was based on a fuji lut paul did in after effects. The lens was the olympus 9-14mm or something like that. Pretty crappy lens, but we were forced to either use that or another zoom that was a 12-12mm or something. With the micro 4/3 crop factor, we had to go as wide as possible.

masters of none looks excellent - nice clean blacks and motion looks really nice. I am impressed. Haven't seen much else shot on the varicam but this camera looks to be nice. I think this camera, a red, an alexa, or a sony f65 for higher end stuff and you really won't notice as much difference than the person behind the camera and the colorist. They are all getting to a nice place. Now it's a question of ergonomics, workflow, power consumption, weight, recording media, etc etc.

Another really promising snipet from NX1_packages\standard-arm7\usr\include\wideo\drime5\hdmi\d5_hdmi_video_type.h /** * @enum ColorSpace * @brief Color space of video stream. */ enum ColorSpace { HDMI_CS_RGB,/**< RGB color space */ HDMI_CS_YCBCR444,/**< YCbCr 4:4:4 color space */ HDMI_CS_YCBCR422/**< YCbCr 4:2:2 color space */ }; /** * @enum ColorDepth * @brief Color depth per pixel of video stream */ enum ColorDepth { HDMI_CD_36,/**< 36 bit color depth per pixel */ HDMI_CD_30,/**< 30 bit color depth per pixel */ HDMI_CD_24/**< 24 bit color depth per pixel */ }; I don't have an external recorder but doesn't the NX1 currently only offer 4:2:2 8 bit out?

Definitely "a thing of beauty". Had hoped for F55 league and price and 240p windowed and 3s pre rec and Canon mount and all got it. And I can even mount 4 mics without hassle (hello Canon and Alexa Mini...) Have optioned the Varicam LT as it is almost exactly what I need although the 240p will probably still not look that great. The Varicam 35 has a fascinating image and when I recently graded demo files in ProResLT from varicam.it comparing Varicam at 5000ISO vs Alexa vs Dragon vs F55 at 3200ISO the Varicam made them all look very very ugly. Would have loved to see a comparison with the C300II though, but that one is severely underspeced with 120p in standard def and C500II will probably have an 8K sensor and therefore a much steeper price. Maybe this sensor will find its way into an FS7 counterpart, but not soon, I guess. RED would not be an option because of missing ND filters and weak high ISO performance. Arri Mini is probably more than double the price and now with big players like Netflix demanding real 4K I´d rather give my distributors that spec, no matter if it is visible in the final film or not.

It seems that everybody is asking Panasonic for a FS5/FS7/C100/C300 competitor by Panasonic. I've already expressed that when Sony announced the FS5, it would be really great to see a FS5 competitor by Panasonic. I wonder what kind of mount would be better, wouldn't it be better if they chose a mount with a shorte flange distance - for better versatiliy - with official swappable mount to EF and PL than simply choosing EF? Panasonic did launch the DVX200 as some sort of gap but that is much more for broadcast and events than film makers, I would had preferred a faster zoom lens with a little less range to keep the size down. I really like Panasonic's Varicam images, they are astonishing and it has such a nice feel to it. I know they wouldn't use the same dual ISO sensor on "budget" camera but at least all the colour science and thought would be on it - since Sony lacks a bit of attention to details.

Looking at the information found about nx300 hack (the one which disables recording time limit), it seems that one way of doing some hacking would be with a firmware update. Another way of doing it might be through wifi or connecting the camera to pc with a cable. If it would be possible to enter the camera as a developer/debug mode, maybe some code could be changed right in the camera. As I understand, that nx1.zip file contains the updated firmware 1.4 which is running on the camera. Now when we have access to it, we can find the parameters, that describe the things we need to change, let's try the bitrate first. I just used search and was able to find many mentions of "bitrate" in the zip along with numbers like "min = 6000000" and "max = 8000000". Don't know what these numbers are for, but that is a start. So we need to find the right numbers and pack them in a new firmware update, like the nx300 hacker did. Here is a description of that process: https://sites.google.com/site/nxcryptophotography/diy-firmware And then someone needs to be brave enough to test it :D

I've managed to build secondary income from YouTube. If I continue to grow at the same rate, I'll out earn my day job in a few years. It's taken over two years (started in Jan 2014.) Managed to do it without running a single ad on my channel. Is it what I originally set out to do? Nope. But I learned to pivot and "sell out". My first few ideas were idealistic. But they had no market. Totally unviable projects. You have pander, especially to your strengths. I realized an opportunity and exploited it for gain. The experience has made me humble to be honest. When I hear or read someone's idea, I hope they succeed. There's nothing like grinding out a win. That said, my experience has made me shrewd. I am very critical of my own ideas. I very rarely entertain things that I'm interested in. Instead, I consider projects that know I can outcompete others at. I still expect to fail, but everything I do is so thought out. The work isn't fun, earning the revenue is what I like now. Business income is damn sweet too. Camera gear, computer hardware and other things can be written off. The money is burning a hole in my bank account, if I don't spend it, I hit a higher tax bracket. --- As an aside, I started out in video doing real estate spots. High end stuff. Know a few realtors. I shot HDR style for a unique look. Also aped some strobe-like compositing with a motorized slider and head. Was able to do multiple takes and stitch the video together. I burned out after a year of working whenever I had spare time. Used the earned cash to start a studio. Hit YouTube with a sorta of video pinup girl channel. Stupidly used big IP. Quickly got slapped with a C&D notice. (Don't fuck with big corps, especially if your selling your take on their TDs.) Sulked. Raged. Considered selling my gear. Learned about monetization. Did some research and found an epic opportunity. Spent a lot of cash up front and slooowly began to earn.

I do think the model will change (is changing), but let's not forget that Louis C.K. earned the luxury of being able to thrive on the vanguard of this new model simply because he established his credentials in the old model. On the other hand, it's proven that mass media is possible with youtube.

I recently acquired a leaf aptus 10-ii (56mm x 36mm sensor), 56mpx. It's old, noisy and has less dr than my a7rii. The difference in megapixels between the two is only marginal but each pixel on the aptus has significantly more area. Most of the later zeiss and schneider lenses for 6x6 format resolve the same information onto a full frame sensor as a full frame lens does. for instance my hasselblad 50mm/2.8 distagon wide open is just as good at resolving detail as a contax 50mm/1.4 closed down to f2.8 when compared on the a7rii. I'd say both lenses fall short of the 42mpx a7rii and just about resolve enough to view the 42mpx image at 66%. at 100% the lenses run out of resolution for such finely packed pixels. The difference between the above is that the hasselblad lens has an image circle almost twice the diameter of the full frame lens meaning the projected information onto the 80mm image circle of the hasselblad is nearly 3x the amount of pixels. granted the performance of the 50mm hassy will deteriorate towards its corner limits on 6x6 but lets say we only use the 645 area (70mm circle). This still results in a 2.5x advantage in optical resolution. Now, if you then used your magic and created a nice focal reducer providing around a 0.7x magnification with some generic apo correction to help what are largely film lenses when used on a digital sensor. squeeze the 2.5x more optical information onto the 42mpx sensor (and likely a 60mpx one down the line) I know I;d buy one. I'm aware that a focal reduced 80mm/2.8 on the a7rii wont ever look exactly like the 80mm/2.8 on my aptus 10, but it'll be close. comparing to the slew of boring technically perfect sigma lenses who have no character is a mistake IMO. I've seen lots of very clean images from the sigma 1.4 art. but very few that exhibit the optical character/magic from a masterpiece from 1980's Germany. That said, I can;t see many people willing to buy a MF speed booster in reality since it won;t give them the authentic medium format look without investing in the best lenses for MF and having to work around the slow focus mechs and the extreme weight. my 50mm/2.8 distagon weighs 6 times what the contax 50mm/1.4 does!

The responses here have been very thoughtful, and have given me much to consider. I may modify my product direction a bit, but on the whole, it seems that my ideas aren't entirely crazy.

The lack of touch screen is unforgiveable. For all the people that moan that pros don't need a touch screen in models like the A7 and RX series, seeing Dan Chung's News Shooter touch screen demo clearly illustrates the focus pulling-like capabilities a touch screen offers. What's the point of having state-of-the-art PDAF without having easy access to focus point selection?