Leaderboard

The fact few people if any can tell the difference lets us know all we have too....... Both cameras look great and if most people here cannot tell the difference, 99.9% of the audience will not be able too either...... Go and create the project you've always wanted, the camera is no longer an excuse /

I've been using 5D3 Magic Lantern RAW for a few years now and it's my personal gold standard for image quality as I'm very familiar with it, can predict the results I'll get in various situations and have developed my own look that I like using in post. I do a lot of documentary and corporate stuff and wanted to do more handheld, so I got the GH5 for its IBIS, 10bit V-Log, 4K and general ease of use. Although the GH5's colour is an improvement on its predecessors, the 5D3 is nicer looking to me. So I wanted to see if I could tweak the GH5's VLog colour to be more similar to the colour I get from Magic Lantern Cinelog-C, processed via Adobe Camera Raw (other debayering workflows will give different results). I shot a chart with both cameras, extracted the squares and put them side by side in Resolve. V-Log on the left, ML on the right: I used Hue v Hue and Hue v Sat to line up the signal on the vectorscope: Here you can see the effect of this correction.This is accurately white balanced V-Log (default colour) with a curve and saturation added: And here's the same shot with the colour correction applied: Skin goes from green-ish to pink-ish. Reds become more saturated, blues are pulled back. Foliage separates out into varying shades of yellow to green to blue-sh green, rather than being one big block of pure green. So next, I wanted to test this by comparing the same shots to Magic Lantern RAW. Would this correction really turn my GH5 into a handheld and more usable version of my 5D3? I stuck the GH5 on top of the 5D3. I shot the 5D3 at 3520 x 1320 (the maximum resolution I can get that's both continuous and at a sensible aspect ratio) - this has a crop factor of 1.63x. ISO was 100, and aperture at f5.6 on the Canon 24-105. The GH5 was 10 bit V-Log, Cinema 4K, ISO 400, aperture f4 (roughly equivalent) on the Leica 12-60. I used shutter speed to control exposure, so motion blur is different between shots. It seems like the GH5 has around 0.66 stops more info in the highlights at the same exposure as the 5D, so I shot it one stop over to maximise DR. First I corrected the 5D shots to the way I wanted them to look. Then I tried to get the GH5 to match. It's not a perfect match by any means, there are individual hues that tend to go awry a little, especially in the first shot. But for me the exercise is a success: the GH5 footage looks more like Canon Magic Lantern than it would straight out of the camera. And I would be happy to intercut the two, or to use the GH5 in situations that are more suited to its features. The take home message is that V-Log has a lot of grading potential - you're not necessarily stuck with Panasonic's colours on this camera. A nice surprise for me was how much detail is in the 3.5K 5D files compared to Cinema 4K GH5, especially when sharpened. However, it's not very practical to shoot in its high resolution modes at the moment, due to the slow refresh rate of the LCD preview. If you want to check out the files yourself, here are a series of matched pairs of 5D DNGs, and GH5 V-Log TIFFS. FOLDER: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1exEpCRAfgFdi1FZ3hma09YZms ALL FILES ZIPPED: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwzsbjMgrAwzTFJZby0xSTV6VmM

@hyalinejim Great job with making the Panasonic reds less orange and ACTUAL red. Here is a shot where the tubes were solid red, the poker table was red, and the guy's shirt was red/black. It was looking a bit orange naturally till I added your LUT.

Here is the LUT for colour correction only - the V-Log gamma remains unchanged. This should be first in your post pipeline. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1exEpCRAfgFcVdtSXhRdmJvalE

Yes, the GH5 is second. For sure, the 5D files have much more malleability than 10bit VLog. You can really go to town on Magic Lantern RAW - it's a much thicker file. It's almost pristine (except for ugly shadow noise). But I think that it is actually a testament to the GH5 that I can do that. And what I've presented here is only the realisation of my preferences. The point that I want to make is that the 10bit 422 files are robust enough to undergo a fair bit of colour correction / grading. To me, the VLog coming from the camera is a "raw" material with massive potential, as the (properly) RAW footage from the 5D3 is a beginning, and not an end in itself. In the main GH5 thread you mentioned that there was a range of quality in the posted videos for the GH5, from video-ish to something more satisfactory. Believe me, if Magic Lantern RAW was accessible to the same kinds of users - and in the same numbers - as the GH5, you'd see a hell of a lot of bad 5D3 ML videos. Exactly. You need 12 nodes or 20 minutes work to match this with that. But when the groundwork is done, you're in business. Today I made a nice lut that combines the Canon-like colour with a Lightroom film emulation preset. I loaded this into the camera as a monitoring lut and exposed until it looked good in the viewfinder. Came back and slapped the lut on and each shot was perfect. It took as long as it does to Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V.... with maybe a small WB and curves adjustment beforehand This is the look that I'm into at the moment. In a year's time I might be into something different. Big time!

But converting the files to something your NLE can read takes some extra time, as well as factoring in the extra storage costs of RAW files. A horse apiece in my opinion, and the GH5 offers a lot ergonomically/feature set-wise (IBIS, HFR, 4K, uncompressed HDMI out, XLR-capable, no playback issues, etc) that makes it a more practical option for many shooters. The GH5 10-bit files offer enough latitude for color correction that there's no reason you couldn't get great results with a minute in Resolve and/or some of the excellent LUTs available, imo. Plus 4K is nice to have in the tool belt when clients want it. YMMV

LOL Glenn... Nothing wrong to make the greenish Panasonic to look like the redish Canon. This means choices :-)

Good to hear Aaron! It's real knife edge stuff trying to spread out hues that are compressed, and to compress hues that are spread out - especially with a low contrast, low saturation profile like VLog. Sometimes an additional correction is needed on top of the lut, nudging an individual hue one way or the other. But you're right. Reds from the GH5 are almost always quite orange. One caveat with the lut is that sometimes reds will become quite oversaturated. This works well for getting nice skintones, but if you have bright red clothing or a traffic sign it can get overblown. Pulling back on the red saturation helps in this scenario.

Am loving what you're getting from the LS300. I really think I'd rather have it than a GH5. Btw, your XT20 suggestion is interesting. I saw some nice videos online.

Used the LS300 in anger a bit more at yesterday's job doing some quick pre-match build up stuff. Really hard contrasty light and I haven't tested enough to know how much can be pulled up if you ETTR and so as I was in a rush many, many highlights were harmed in the making of it! Cinema 2K, JLOG and Contax Zeiss 24-80

You can even make the GH5 look like a $6000 Blackmagic Ursa Mini (Pro) 4.6k, which is even better!

MLVFS. Feel like I'm beating a dead horse around here. Works better than GH5 4K 60p files imo. GH5 certainly has some nice features (and I may just get one in the future) but I don't think this thread proves that GH5 = MLRaw, just that you can get a similar colour out of it (you could do the same with any camera if you spent the time).

I like the second set on all of them better. If that is the GH5 you guys need to re think the 5D mkIII. Even if its not, who the heck, other than side by side, is going to see any difference in this. I do see more DR in the second set, so that helps, but who wants to give up all the benefits of the GH5 for what little you gain with Raw on the 5D. Just send all those 5Ds to me, and I will give them to the "Little Sisters of the Poor". And no, I have no sisters, only brothers. And you did one hell of a great job on this comparison hyalinejim. 2 Thumbs UP! When you send me your 5D3 I will use your return address to send you a Cookie!

@SMGJohn @Kisaha thanks guys! I used the tried-and-true Normal gamma, saturation -4, sharpness -10, contrast -3, master black level at 15, which are still my favorite settings I've ever tried. It gives the footage a really sweet look, even right out-of-camera and before grading, though this video is probably one of my most heavily colored projects. Most of this was graded with DeLuts, though I do remember playing around with some of the RED gamma profiles in filmconvert. Lenses, mostly used sigma 18-35 and Rokinon 12mm and 85mm, though some of the really dreamy shots were with the Tokina-Anginaux 28-70 f/2.6-2.8. The timelapses were actually shot with the 16-50pz lens.

Pan GX80 + Pan 42,5 mm 1.7 WB - auto Portrait -1,-5,-5,-3 i.dynamic - auto sh/li - 0/0 Skintone is perfect for me, Printscreen Video RAW without adjustments directly from the camera , 1080/50p , It's a surprise for me

Tried to match both cameras, actually they look the same now (like 99%) The GH5 needed like 12 nodes (with the filtering included) while the BM46k only one (ARRI LUT in Resolve with curves and added saturation). But at least you can match them. Here's the video (don't watch in Chrome browser, colorshifts) @AaronChicago Can I set the video to public so it may help other potential buyers?

@Parker Excellent! Seem like its own film stock. Do you care to elaborate a bit (or preferably, a lot!). The NX500 is so small, with the same NX1 sensor, that is a complete steal (if you own NX lenses anyway). I have the same exact use as Parker does, also a tiny silly Manfrotto tripod that fits even into my regular bag pack, or at the top of my camera bag (a big camera bag, not a huge one though) and I always carry it with me, as a B cam combo, or back up combo. I also have a small rig with a matte box and rails and stuff, recently I just used it as a B cam for interviews on a serious documentary shooting (I was doing the sound, and I joked with the DP, which of course we work together since the beginning of time, that I could pass the NX500 as a second cam and no one would even comment on it, and I did! Actually I saw the finished product and the NX500 is more in the interviews than the JVC LS300, but the JVC with its 4:2:2 broadcast ready codec performed slightly better in Resolve.)

LOL Funny and meaningful. But, that black sun couldn't be part of Panasonic offer :-D

Mmmm.... Collage app exported that with a saturation boost for some reason. Should've been a bit more subdued.

Anthony, c'mon... And what about 5D3 ML RAW?? This has stopped anyone to shoot 5-star outcome? ;-)

True, very true. I ONLY have a Apple phone so I can use Facetime with my Kids, Grand Kids, Friends. Other than that they can stick it up, well Cook's ass.

Apple phones suck way harder than apple computers... still it's a decent battle none the less. I've always used Apple, I got angry recently with how crap they are going now and thought about switching systems, used Windows again and asked myself what the hell I was thinking. Resolve 14 with MLVFS is great for my uses. If you were Donald Trump you wouldn't know how to edit a video so which system you have would be mere semantics.

Copy and paste the link, but wait a few seconds for the video to embed before you hit enter or save.

Sorry but what I see is terrible, I supposedly have a color corrected 1440p monitor (not top of the range, but a few years ago it was quite good). The Face Detect photo just under it seems much better!

The face detect AF is just as good as the GH5 too I save the file locally and drag it onto the bottom of the reply. Not sure how you do it if its hosted elsewhere though.

Yea very sweet footage. I like how you use JLog. Hey how do you post the video and pictures in this forum? Every time I try I only place he links.

@mercer 80D is a joke of a video camera, I do not understand why it is mentioned here. I guess you have misunderstood the whole industry, the productions that need raw are so few in the general video creating scheme of our times that it ain't even make a dent to sales. Even for documentary TV series C100markII or 8 bit 4:2:2 is mostly adequate. If you do a few projects per year and have all the time in the world or a big budget, then ok, most of the time we are rushing to keep into deadlines, and raw workflow isn't the fastest or most convenient one (both pre/pro and production wise). Every company protect their product lines, and that make sense for customers as well. What is the point to have a lot of similar options from one company, it doesn't make sense. Just check car companies and their models (take Citroen par example, where their product line is very clear) and you will understand how things work. Also, to keep with the car terminology, a racing car (raw) has the absolute power, but a professional needs a small van 7 times out of 10, and the rest 3 ain't a sports car either!

Absolutely. This is really funny. But, it is what it is. The right amount of blur can solve it anyway. Without becoming too soft. With the right caveats this camera can be 'the camera'. Mike Hannon's comparison test has proved it. I also bet we need NR dialed down whatever ISO is.

Again not trying to be contrary, but I'm not so sure about that either. The 5D3 is a professional stills camera and more than enough, even with its factory firmware, for wedding videos. The Canon badge also still pulls a lot of weight in the industry, I assume. But before I say any more and get castrated here, the GH5 is the best camera ever invented and the only option for any level of filmmaker and all other camera companies should stop making cameras...? Anyway, my original point is this... the author disliking Panasonic color and having to create a workaround to make it look like Canon color is more a testament to his abilities than it is a plus for the GH5.

I feel like this everytime, lol. But already created some presets and luts, so Panasonic's color science is no big issue anymore.

Actually, they are. But the reversal is not in the Fn menu setting. It's a few items below it. Typical of the camera companies they do weird things. Why not have one category for all options? Nope. Can't do it. Put wheel options on another line, and put the options for the joy stick settings in the place you make the settings under one category (fn) and enable the option to make the joy stick settings in a completely different place in the menu. Who decides this stuff anyway?!? And Nomenclature---don't get me started!! The disp. function button is in a terrible place--right where you will want to hold the camera--especially if you have a fairly weighty lens, like the Sigma 18-35; and you can't disable it. So, instead of it being helpful, it becomes constant possible distraction.

But is that a testament to the GH5 or a deficit of the Ursa... JK. I really have to test these MLVFS I've been hearing so much about... if only someone on this site advocated more for them...

Not in Pot Player though. Artifacts are practically gone if you add blur there. Not manual settings, right. Funny because it works. Trick hinted, I do bet.

I get that everybody is stoked about this camera but once again, Panasonic has a huge gap in their camera pricing. There's already a gap between the G85 and GH5 and at $6500, there's a huge gap between the GH5 and this new camera. I know the GH5 is in a different category than the new camera, but with the hybrid nature of the GH5... So, if the pricing is correct, how does Panasonic fill the gap between the GH5 and this new camera to lure GH5 users who are ready to upgrade to move to this new camera instead of going to a Sony A7Siii and then the cheaper FS5?

Sure.

See?... (almost) all is possible in the digital realm with certain steps. Still over processed to require more blur anyway. PotPlayer is your friend :-)

Brought the 10-bit file into FCPX and rendered to ProRes, then brought into PP CC and quickly graded with Lumetri. With a little post looks reasonably organic.

Hey...I have a 20 year old daughter and she loves the Beatles more than I ever did??...you never can tell with Millenials!

There be no problem with the video you produce with the Leica...the weirdness lies in getting used to manual fly-by-wire focus...when you get the lense...and it's so small and light, you'll laugh when you see the first images...Jon on this forum vlogs with another Panny/Leica prime...I forget the exact focal length and F stop and also an Olympus 75mm fast prime....these M4/3 higher end primes both with Panny/Leica and Olympus are beautiful lenses...and Jon also shoots on a G85...check his Vlog out too...

Agreed, I would test ProRes LT and see if it works for your needs. The fact that the camera signal is RAW shouldn't affect the final file sizes, only your recorded codec.

First of all it is funny that some people are certain of the specs, features and characteristics, when in reality the only thing we know is that there is an EF (or EF-S) lens on a picture. The Craft camera was more real than this one on those renderings a year ago! Second, it is also funny how people are start fantasizing everything they need, and want, on a 6000$ (or whatever price has, but it would be 4500-7500$ for sure) camera, that render 95% of all the other cameras useless. The good thing is that in one month we should know most things. GH5 was a pleasant surprise ( I do not think that is a coincidence that A7 series cameras had a price deduction almost immediately after the GH5 release) and Pana can build from there and offer as a great tool for small to middling jobs, but that camera won't be shooting iMAX projects any time soon. I am sure people on Canon and Sony are eating their nails right now!

yea dude i have a problem with the wb on kelvin too, sometimes when i turn off the camera and i start again the wb activate as awb but the camera say that is on kelvin mode, so i just have to press again the kelvin mode and it have fixed. i got the nx500

Yes, but it's a bit slow to import the files straight out of camera, so I use the rewrap method posted by @Orangenz https://www.dropbox.com/s/nt2uqr5pp9xi1st/GH5 10 bit fix.pdf?dl=0

I'm curious as to why you're so certain no SSD....The camera is physically large enough to use it....add to that shooting in Prores and boom 800 Mbps in AFFORDABLE robust media...P2 express cards are not "affordable" and SD may be fast, but when it comes to robust it does not really tick the Pro box....I also think Panasonic may be aiming for clients who already like and use say GH cameras but may buy something higher end in say the mid range price...I don't think you can convert anyone over from Canon...Sony maybe...I looked at a clip shot on the Canon 5D mk 3 the other day in 14bit ML about Rome...one shot had serious banding in the sky and another bad rolling shutter....I commented about this but not a peep in reply...if you're going for that Disney color or Zach Schneider look, I don't think you're ever going to be persuaded over to Panasonic color (I would never shoot in Canon either...completely subjective, so I understand their point of view too)...whatever camera one chooses, has to satisfy the individual needs of the filmmaker which has little to do with forum opinions...For me the GH5 is there already, as is also Panasonic in terms of native glass they are producing...I would like to see something more in the form factor of a robust Cine Cam with the GH 5 serving as a BCam in tight spots or stealth mode grabbing shots that no one could dream of 2 years ago, without getting mugged or asked for a permit...anyway....we'll know soon enough!

Can you export it as a LUT and share it as well? When & if Panasonic allows baked-in LUTs, it would make this really useful.

I'm thinking of going electric like Dylan and buying native E-Mount lenses for my a6300. Since I've been working for a commercial production house, I figure stabilization and AF could be very useful in commercial work, and my own narrative work, since I don't have the benefit of an AC, like ever. I'm thinking of the Sigma 19mm 2.8 DN and Sony 50mm 1.8. I like the look I've seen from these lenses. Anyone have any thoughts/advice? I'm used to using manual lenses, so I don't have any experience with this. I won't be shooting anything fast moving, just glidecam and slider shots.

How about the ability to have baked in LUTs? That would give amazing color control and also produce better results than doing it in post.

+100!!! in camera LED screen or EVF desqueeze would just be one of those out of the ballpark features!!!

Mind blowing? lol

Is 4K limited to 30P only (i.e. no 24/45P) ?