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No. Small gamut does not equal more data. Okay, this isn't exactly the best representation, but this is the line of thought that I came up with when it clicked for me. Disclaimer: it is literally a childish example. So I apologize in advance haha Color space is a sandbox and data is your sand. Say we have a sandbox of arbitrary size and our current point of reference. We start to fill it with sand up until just after one single grain of sand spills out of the boundary of the sandbox. This would represent an image with colorfulness at its highest level and a linear lightness that gets mapped to 1.0 or 255 or 1023 etc. Let's fill the sandbox with more sand so that it spills overwhelmingly out to the side. But, we can't play with that sand because it's outside our sandbox. Now we're going to build a sandbox encompassing the spill and the other sandbox; far enough out so that there is a good amount of space between the boundary and our sand. Our point of reference is still the smaller sandbox, so even though it's the same amount of sand in and around the small sandbox, occupying the same space, it looks like a lot less sand because of the size of the sandbox (sorta the same idea of using smaller plates when eating. The same amount of food on a small and large plate will look like 'more' on the small plate). This is the same has having a wide gamut or HDR color space. Since most of us have a point of reference that is small, a relatively small amount of data will look normal or well saturated and contrasty. And what we would consider a relatively or exceedingly large amount of data in our small color space would look desaturated and low contrast in a wide gamut or HDR color space because the data is 'small' relative to the size of the larger space. Hope this makes sense. Cheers

Okay, I've skimmed through some of the comments here and hopefully I can add something helpful/useful and clear some things up for everyone here. S-Log, Alexa Log C, Canon C-Log, Redlogfilm, Bolex Log, BMD Film, V-Log, all the Cineon-type log specifications on modern cinema cameras were designed for exactly that purpose. The main goal of having these color spaces (consisting of mainly a color gamut and an optoelectronic transfer function, and sometimes a little more) were the following: Retain most amount of detail possible through digitization, bit reduction, and/or compression. Integrate/mix footage with motion picture film (Cineon) and other cameras. Consistency and mathematical accuracy, which translate to less guess work. And I think there's some misconception that these log specifications were designed to be looks. Yes, they have a look designed in them/inherent to them, but that is not their main function. By retaining the most possible detail you're able to reproduce scene referred data more accurately, which means you can color with everything the camera was capable of seeing/capturing. So, while there is a bit of 'lookery' happening with these color specifications, their main purpose is to retain data. No. All else equal, any noise in an image recorded in a log color space will be present in that image when viewed in another color space. These color transforms can't add or subtract noise from an image, only change the appearance just like every other bit of signal. Not sure what you mean by dated, but as long as you're viewing wide gamut or HDR data on a display with a gamut lesser in size or more restrictive transfer function, it will look desaturated and low contrast. Log specifications are not inherently destructive. Bit reduction and compression, however, are destructive (in most cases). The data is already present in the image. A LUT is literally just a quantized representation of a color transform (continuous functions like our log specifications). So all it does is change the appearance of the data that's already there. If further explanation is needed, I'd be happy to oblige.

About 4 weeks ago I talked a guy owning a camera store and a small photo studio. He told me, he doesn't close his store <ONLY because his family owns the building and he doesn't want to rent the store to other people. But in fact, he should close, because it doesn't pay at all. He is very friendly and knowledgeable, but most nowadays customers don't honor this. (A small town with about 25.000 residents 30km far from Frankfurt/Germany) Most people try to abuse his store as a free camera test location: They come in, put an own card in a camera, shoot a little bit around and go home...They never return to buy, probably they buy online for much cheaper...To stop this mess, he started to charge 50 Euros for testing and consulting (for about 30-45 minutes) - when people buy the tested gear/camera in his store, he refunds this fee...After starting this, there are about TWO people per week who want to test and get some advice, he said...He is glad having stopped the "test-mania", cheapo-parasites stealing his time at his costs...

Bastards.

Hey guys, I just finished coding my new Software to get a preview of all your LUTs on your footage. It features a still preview, as well as multiple simultaneous video previews, if you wish. You can try it now over on: http://www.fatpigtures.com/lutastic.html The first three guys to contact me via email at info@fatpigtures.com with the subject "EOSHD LUTastic" will get a free full license.

RED are set to release their first smartphone, Hydrogen, in 2018. As things stand, this is the first ultra-premium device in a new market for phones, priced ahead of any of the current flagship smartphones. I think it's an area that is going to see explosive growth. Read the full article

Hey there, I've been lurking this forum for quite a while but finally decided to create an avatar to make this thread (somewhat inspired by Andrew's blog post "Pro cameras are not as creatively liberating"). I always thought I would be working towards that huge, cinematic rig. With 15mm rods, matteboxes, external monitors, follow-focuses and v-mount batteries etc... And a couple of months ago I decided to take the first step. I sold my old trusty t3i/600D along with the 18-55mm kit lens, to instead pick up a used BMPCC. (Somehow I still made it out with 20 dollars in profit?). I started outfitting the BMPCC with accessories. I already had a cage and a handle that came with it. I didn't really want to, but I couldn't see it useful as a true compact camera. Battery and audio needed upgrading (in-camera preamp wasn't even able to record decent ambience without hiss and white noise), and quickly I learned to despise handheld shooting - something I always used to love and prefer. Long story short, in the essence of the "new gear syndrome" (I saw a better term somewhere but I can't remember it) ,I have decided to cut my filmmaking gear considerably - starting with the BMPCC rig. Now to my question; what minimal cameras/gear/rigs do you guys like use for run and gun, your morning walks, street or travel shooting? (Essentially, your NOT proffessional work). And why? -meudig p.s. This is not supposed to be "What camera should I buy"-thread, but if any of you have any ideas about a nice, cheap (400-650$ used) camera with decent in-camera preamp and the ability to monitor audio without any add-ons, I'd be thankful! I've been looking at the E-M5 Mark II (which allows you to monitor audio with the additional grip), and the IBIS seems amazing.

I think there'd be a pretty big market for it. For people with LX100 or GX80 you're getting edit ready ProRes and an audio recorder. That takes both of those cameras to another level, particularly the GX80. For everyone else, the edit ready ProRes would be very attractive even just based on how many threads pop-up on here recently for workflows/computer requirement headaches to handle 4K. Having ProRes from the get go takes care of a lot of that pain. Well, until you have to buy all of those hard drives ! The drop in CFAST prices since the original Ninja Star appeared also means the timing is better for it now as well. As far as I'm concerned, BM have the right spec with the wrong screen size with their VAs as 4K on 5" would be better for compact cameras and Atomos have the right spec on the Ninja Assassin but the wrong screen size too as maybe it shouldn't have one at all like the Ninja Star. So for me at least, whichever of them does 4K on a 5" screen or 4K on a no screen will win.

I'm not a wedding shooter but did help out a colleague at a wedding recently. I used a Tamron 24 to 70 on an EF Speedbooster XL, giving a 1.8 aperture in terms of light and 31 to 90 f3.5 full frame equivalent. IBIS worked perfectly AF was much slower and more unreliable so I used MF with focus peaking and rarely missed focus at 1.8 Plenty narrow DOF without changing lenses. Wide end is wide enough, but would have preferred extra reach on the long end. I was shooting 1080. I didn't use ETC as it gives a softer image, but clients may not notice this. Overall I'd recommend this combo if you're confident with manual focus and can get close to the action when the long end is not long enough. If changing lenses is a hassle, have you thought about using two bodies?

Hi guys! I would like to offer my music to everyone. It's electronic and mostly instrumental stuff. I'm giving it away for free because I made it for film makers and video game developers to use ROYALTY FREE in all of their stuff. If you use it like it and enjoy it I ask that you give me credit! Much love everybody! Here is a list of the 11 albums I have. There's plenty of music to choose from. If you want something specific feel free to shoot me a message. https://www.jamendo.com/artist/364325/social-bot-73xt/albums Cheers everybody enjoy all the free downloads! Also I love to see the different stuff it gets used for so if you do happen to use something let me know so I can check out your sweet projects!

I haven't used a GH5, but from the samples that were out, at the time, I chose the 5D3 because of this video. I have yet to see anything from the GH5 that looks as cinematic as this... Or this... However, I have seen some fine videos since and I am sure good narratives could be made with a GH5.

I think people would happily pay a little for an hour with all sorts of used test gear to play with in a special room. It would be much nicer than feeling guilty wasting the shop owner's time and having just 5 minutes with the next customer breathing down their neck. The larger retailers can usually match Amazon prices, sadly the smaller ones don't seem to be able to, so maybe they are better trading in used goods and rarities instead. PS ntblowz I had to delete your signature as it messed up the readability of the forum having a big long quote randomly appearing in threads. Sorry about that. Feel free to put something else in there that's smaller.

It's all about the product. If it's market leading, it'll sell. Panasonic dipped their toe in the water with the CM1, it was overpriced and very mediocre as a phone vs the competition. Camera even had it's flaws too. C- for effort, must try harder.

You can adapt less onto the FD mount.

Don't buy EF lenses!! But an EF focal reducer can make sense, if you're just using it as a base to adapt other things to it.

Thank you, but my points were so cromulent that I fear I might have given them a little too much covfefe.

This is a great thread. I've been experimenting with colour profiles once again on the A7SII after settling with the GFILM recipe for SLOG2. I tried out PP Off and Cine 4, and what I couldn't get away from was that SLOG2 produces a certain look and texture that the other profiles simply can't match. Perhaps on one or two shots you could get close, but for most, there's a tonal graduation that is unique to LOG profiles. Yes, when I zoom into an image, there's more colour noise, but I can live with that given that the image as a whole is much more pleasing, more film-like when compared to the Cine gammas or PP off.

I learned a couple of things from this thread. Sandbox explanation works. I also like the explanation that S-log sacrifices colour information for detail and highlight retention. I feel like smoother highlights and shadows is more important than colour for the majority of scenes. Thanks guys!

I can not watch it as the content is blocked here due to the music but could it be the A7sii in APSC mode?

Nope, depends on the flavour of ProRes. ProRes LT for example is considerably smaller than MJPEG 500MBit/s, yet is 10bit 4:2:2. MJPEG is only 8bit! It's a shit codec. It truly is!

It wasn't much better there ! I'll be back late November for about a week so I'll give you a shout.

In Sweden we have had a recent rise in photography. There have even been a show on TV for every day photography. It went for two seasons on the biggest channel with two of the most famous comedians we have as hosts. So there is a photo boom for sure. In Stockholm there are several shops still keeping shelves full with later stuff. But also a few spread in the other three "bigger" citys. There are also two big stores with everything imaginable in analog photography as well. All of them of course have the internet as their main market for nation wide sales. But Im also extremely lucky. I live in a smaller town (fifth in swe). Here we used to have two but they went bust. Luckily one of them resurrected. And the guys running it have been smart. They focus on a lab for development and prints. Signs, frames, etc. And they seem to be doing alright. They also carry a lot of optics for bird watchers. Their camera display is small but excellent. If I go down there now I sure I will se an E-M1ii, X100f, Pentax K1, X-T2 and a GH5. In other words they carry the latest and greatest. On top of that they have some low end entry level. No middle of the road stuff. And only one or two of each. No online store, thats why sold out stuff still can be found there. They also carry Instax, Lomography and Polaroid. I shop there as much as I can. I love supporting them and hanging out for a while talking photo. I bought the Pen-f, X-T2, a6300, lomoinstax, two tripods, loads of film and the GX85 there. And I will comeback in hopes of sustaining them as long as possible... knock on wood.

Unfortunately camera store are killed by the internet. Last time a brought something from a camera store was in 2004.... The price pressure is too big for them to survive and we consumer we don't want to pay more than what we find online.... Canon, Nikon, Sony they can do whatever they want but they will never win back smartphone users and smartphones are getting better and better to the point that an average consumer does not care at all about other cameras. This is why the race is the Pro and Semi Pro/Serious hobbits. On the other hand I see more and more pro using very expensive equipment like REDs etc filming for Instagram and co for big companies to separate their post from the masses of phone imagery...

@Andrew Reid My generation (16-20 years old) has ZERO interest in using proper video/photo cameras. ZERO...All people use extensively their smartphones, they want it "as simple as possible" and aim to post as fast as possible the results on social media. Facebook is for many young people BS, Instagram and SnapChat are nowadays king...An own website/blog? Muahaha....It has to be quick and dirty...NO EFFORTS (saving for buy, handling, shooting, editing, education, etc.), please... "Winning back smartphone users"? This would be really hard (and costly) to do, as young users are generally lazy and don't want to spend any time with fiddling and properly operating a camera. The formula simply is: "As simple and automated as possible to shoot and share". And never forget the costs: Most of my colleagues spend 30-50 EUR / month for "all net flat" mobile calling/internet fees, including a smartphone usage for 2 years....So no cash needed to buy a smartphone. This business model for "selling" smartphones is impossible to do for a camera manufacturer. In my school there are about 1.500 scholars. I know very many people, but only FOUR scholars owning/operating a DSLR/MILC camera. Camera stores? It's hard for them (not for the big electronic discounters, but for smaller, specialized camera stores)...Generally diminished camera sales, very small margins and customers expecting top advice, but then going home and ordering online for cheapest price...For 95% of stores it's even impossible to get in the costs for rental...

@tupp your points are delightfully cromulent

I jumped ship, sold my NX1 16-50S & 50-150S. I purchased the a7ii (returned it, I really like 4k recording and this didn't have it), a6500 (still have it, I love the eye AF but the camera is just too small for my hands) and tried the a7rii (returned it, picture quality was good but camera operation was too slow). I am really thinking about purchasing the NX1 again as the only reason i sold it was because I was afraid that if I needed service, no one could repair it. I loved everything about the NX1 the operation, handling and the picture color/quality. The NX1 was easier to take photos with. Also, I can't afford Sony's 2.8 lenses. So I'm also trying to decide to if I should buy the NX1 again.

Just finished the first customized engraving metal jacket. More customized jackets & jackets for Bolex 16/32 & Kowa C35 are coming.

Having a hard date to sell items happen over and over would be too scary for me..... and it might force you to sell it for less than you'd like to sell it for! As you can't hold and wait for a better offer to come along :-/

I don't actually shoot S-LOG all the time. In a situation where 14 possible stops would spread the data too thinly (low light), I'd opt for a hyper gamma mode, where highlight roll off has a bit more control yet the image retains a lot more info into less stops. For the TV scenario, well, it really spends on what you're shooting, the lighting design, the style - on what camera and setting I'd choose. Is there are big 5k Arri coming through the window, and 150w Dedolights providing a kick for the actors face? Or is everything lit with Kino 4-banks at high key? Are there lots of colour variants, or is it just consistent tungsten? All these choices determine what the best profile to use for the project. I've had a lot of my music work on TV, however I've only shot primarily for TV once. They wanted SLOG-2 4K ProRes 422, yet would also accept SLOG-2 4K from the A7SII and A6500 as B/C cams! (This was BBC3). The variants in location was staggering, but they just wanted a consistent, grounded film look. Whilst I do pay attention to the technical side, the look is most important. SLOG gets that look for me, so despite its shortcomings in colour, it gets the look I want much easier than standard Rec709 profiles.

Thanks for the love. Im not saying everyone should shoot S-LOG. My opinion is that S-LOG, under a skilled hand, will more than likely give more pleasing results - with the majority of users on here are going for the "filmic, organic" look. Forgive me, I'm not that interested in the scientific depth of how it works. I just learn to expose it and grade it like a painter would choose their paints. You're right though, you do lose colour information. Put any A7 camera on PP off and bang! Colour explosion. BUT... the dynamic range is very poor. I feel what you lose in colour, is worth the benefit for that LOG range. It's not enough of a loss in my eyes to dismiss S-LOG.

Right but what I'm saying is that there's a cost in ownership and that it isn't necessarily the best idea for anyone to go get a 0% interest CC and max it out with camera gear planning to sell it just before the term expires. Even with insurance you can still be screwed over. Used $30k Maseratis also look nice but can you afford to maintain a $120k car? If not, then it's not a smart idea to buy one.

I'm all for trying this on the GH5. Is it worth a try? Can someone get me started?

Great work @BTM_Pix On the GH5, maybe we could unlock that 400Mbit 4K mode ahead of time CineLikeD on the GX80 is a great start.