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Just saw the asking price. m4/3 isn't what it used to be.

Quote from the video comparison with the a7S: I've been saying this for a long time that is the downside of the a7S, what good is insanely lowlight if your shallow DoF is impractical?? With the GH5S you can shoot both in low light *and* a DoF that makes sense for the shot.

No, when you move away from a base/native ISO, you lose dynamic range the further away you get. With the GH5S, the dual native ISO reclaims those lost stops at 2500, that you would have lost on the GH5 if you were just gaining up from the native ISO 400. So a GH5 at ISO 2500 will have less dynamic range than a GH5S at 2500. But put them both at ISO 400 and they will both be the same. That's the thing many are missing about the dual ISO function. It's less about noise, and more about maintaining equivalent dynamic range at two ISOs.

Just last month I went to visit Panasonic UK for a hands-on with the new Panasonic GH5S. My full review is in the pipeline but first an introduction to the new camera on the block... The GH5S has a newly developed 10.2MP sensor for enhanced low light performance, as well as 240fps 1080p S&Q. Furthermore for the first time since the GH2 this sensor is an over-sized 1.86x crop multi-aspect sensor. Possible for the first time is 60p at Cinema 4K resolution (4096 x 2160), whereas the GH5 is just Ultra HD 60p. The field-of-view will be slightly wider in Cinema 4K on the GH5S compared to the GH5 due to the larger sensor. The new CMOS also brings colour improvements with a new 14bit readout and less noise. Read the full article

If you think the a7S is a better camera than the GH5 then you are using a very selective set of criteria. They are both great systems, but the GH5 also has great picture quality, and wipes the floor with the Sony device in terms of usability, reliability, portability, and adaptability.

Guys ... please don't confuse those talks about +2stops or +3.5 stops on the GH5s with dynamic range. Those reviewers just say that the GH5s is that much cleaner than the GH5 with ISO pushed. not DR. As stated multiple times : Vlog can store 14+ stops. EVA1 stiff. Vlog-l can store 12 stops. end of it. for GH5 and GH5s. But there is a difference of usable stops in Vlog-l and stored stops. A few months back i found Wolfcrow's IRE tests on the GH5 quite illuminating. I recommend watching the whole video before debating Vlog-l. And i can fully see the GH5s go deeper, pushing a lot more signal/noise out of the low IRE. (for the GH5, his tests show no image information below 15-20 IRE, valuable detail above 30 IRE). If the GH5s can push deeper, you will get your enhanced DR, but still in the 12 stop envelope. I am eagerly awaiting his tests.

The key comment is lowlight... the GH5 doesn’t have 12 stops at ISO 6400. So at 6400, the GH5s may have 11 stops... never underestimate the word play of a marketer/salesman. @webrunner5

So, are we really discussing lowlight and wide depth of field to try and argue that the GH5s is as good as FF... especially the a7s?

Well up to about 12800 it would seem that the GH5S does in fact have the edge. The Sony retakes the lead beyond that point. So it really depends on where you will be shooting. Another consideration is that the added DOF might not be desirable on the Sony as it can make focus more challenging.

Well, that of course depends of your pocket deepness. If you can afford, get them both... compare and share your impressions with rest of us. GX80 has nice image but very toyish functionality for longer and serious usage (size, screen, buttons, evf etc). What I may add, it is that for me seems that goes on unnoticed fact that Panasonic consumer sector for a long time had no any new sub model... it seems as they silently abandon lower market and are focusing completely on top models (variations of mobile phones have in every circle more and more stronger capability and influence). What does it mean for your dilemma - I think that life and comparative practic usability circle of GH5s easy could not be too long, depending of sale rate and very sharp competition (Sony, Fuji, anounced mirrorless Nikon etc). I have no any suspect that GH6 is already born and greatly at the road of secret maturation with lowlight+ibis integrated combination...

In theory iti is so But in real life - first of all, I really don't like software corrected native lenses (nor their limited stabilization); and second, to use f2.8 (which, in fact, is more >f3 in the case of these zooms), you have to crank ISO up to 12800 in equivalent situation where your 17.5 use ISO 1600 wide open. As we can see, even GH5 in ISO 12800 inevitably lose color information. Its really great strength is ingeniously clean and fully DR usable ISO 2500-3200 image, because of second native iso value.

Nah! Not for the frugal wonderboy that is the Sony PMW-F3 :-D F3 = sub $1K Samurai = $350 SSD = less than a hundred bucks (spend the spare bucks on NP-F batteries for the recorder! Or run it on D-tap from a BP-U60) SxS SD adapter plus SD card = fifty bucks perhaps Couple of knock off BP-U60 batteries (if you're F3 doesn't already come with it!) = another hundred bucks If you go the 4K raw path instead, your starting figures are: Sony FS700 = sub $2K Atomos = sub $1K (plus various accessories... but I'm going to bed now! Cya)

I'm often in the same situation. But, what I've found is that, exactly, GH5 with full open Voigtlanders at ISO 1600 gathered more light than exists for the human eye - and, the most important, because of m43 DOF, f1.0 in fact don't result in THAT shallow DOF (it is near f2 at full frame measure). In fact, it seems to me that non m43 users don't realise how good and usefully advanced are pro m43 primes wide open in lowlight situations. To sum up: having fully clean Iso 3200-6400 image from GH5s is dream come true - but not something that in the 95% of real life situation couldn't be achieved by fast primes. But, lacking of Ibis is for me hardly compensable for far more situations. Keep in mind that situations when we need to up ISO level to the 12800, even 6400, are in reality such that their color informations are extremely poor.

I'm delighted about the improved ISO performance. My situation is that I do a lot of work in museums and galleries and environments where the lighting is deliberately subdued, yet I have to work as unobtrusively as possible. I absolutely love working with the GH series cameras but often struggle with exposure in some quite basic situations (on the occasions where I simply can't affect the lighting). To qualify that a bit - I very, very rarely end up in a situation where I can't expose the image. f/1.4 on a speedboosted lens usually does the trick, and I'm sure the same would be true of f/0.95 on a native lens, but I hate being stuck with that as an option so often. That razor-thin DoF is just not the right choice for so much of what I want to capture. If we really are looking at a 3 stops or so ISO performance advantage over the GH5 then that is a massive, and for me game-changing advance. To put it in context that would be an increase over my current workhorse GH4 of 16 x the usable light-gathering!!! And that might even be a conservative estimate. I'm looking forward to two things - exposing at a range of apertures in challenging lighting situations to suit my storytelling ideas (without having to hire in a A7S just for the purpose!); and getting a decent all-purpose f2.8 zoom so I don't have to keep swapping out lenses in the middle of busy events, etc. That's alone is going to be a Godsend. I just wouldn't have been able to rely on the low-end exposure before. Bummer about IBIS though, obviously.

Thanks for the tips. I am sure practice is what I need the most, but it's good to know to focus on. When using full manual I sometimes forget that I have put the ISO to 6400 or that the white balance is set to a different setting, but I am sure the fastest way to stop doing these mistake is to keep on doing them until I learn.

After having some time to digest and looking at some footage… I know it goes against the way they’re marketing it, but the GH5s seems more suited to events and weddings where you don’t have much light control, whereas the GH5 is for more fast paced commercial work where you do (and use manual glass where gimbal work is a nightmare). I see no image quality improvements outside of low light, and I see several downgrades in terms of versatility in what modern producers expect from a stills form factor cam. I honestly like that Panasonic have released it, but I think that it should cost a bit LESS than the GH5 if anything…even with the free v-log. And despite some hyperbolic comments here, there is no way either camera is comparable to the EVA. In a high end workflow, they are just two different types of b-cam.

Well I could, however I think I'l be reaching to the original GH5 for IBIS - I actually own ZERO I.S lenses! (one of my fave's being the Olympus 40-150mm 2.8). One of the reasons I dumped the FS5 is because some of my shots from 50mm had an annoying ugly-style handheld jitter here and there, regardless of my steady hand. So IBIS happened. Having a GH5S would fill a gap (lowlight), although most of my shoots are controlled. Another body would really be for multi-cam reasons. Great lowlight is a bonus, however the main pull of the GH5S is the better quality image via much smoother looking highlight rolloff. Its awesome what they've done. As it stands, in the most logical non-emotive sense, I think a 2nd GH5 body would be a better fit.

Luke, your film is boss. So was YOUR grading in the previews:) Here is your awesome video on lighting. Thank you very much for this!

Muaha, lol. That compression blocking is massive, it´s like old 256 VGA color mode from 1998, muaha! Some tint easily corrected with a color wheel in the software of your choice. No cure for the A7s image on this 12800ISO sample. So up to 12800iso, comparable performance, even much better on the gh5s in this scene. But let´s read what master Ebrahim has to say about this, giving his supreme analysis on the dp forum very soon!

Well, I am a "long time" panasonic user and I feel like they totally shit my mind... They pulled out the GH5 early just to respond to the markets voice and the hype, but all the GH5S features should be included in the GH5. What was panasonics intention with this move? I will not sell my GH5 just to have the money for the GH5S. Screw you panasonic! I hope A7S III will come soon, than I trade my GH5...

Yes couldn't really comment on the rumours after signing an NDA - but most of all didn't want to drive traffic to the scumbags at 43rumors The leaks this time were ridiculous. Needs to stop! What is the point of having a nice surprise and big in-depth article when you already know everything from some shitty clickbait place that dribbles stuff out over months?

I've been following this guy for a couple weeks. He strictly uses the NX1. Thought it might interest this group.

Ha, sorry no fanboy here. I’ve tried almost every single brand of camera over the past 3-4 years... Hell I even had a Pentax. And yeah, Speedboosters are cool but honestly, I am sooo tired of adapters. I have two boxes full of adapters in my closet, so anything over an 1/8” thick... I’m uninterested. So as far as native systems go, Canon lenses are the best, dollar for dollar, plus the plethora of third party lenses available in the EF Mount. I was a little bummed not owning a camera for my Minolta lenses, but sure enough, I just found and bought my favorite lens of all time... the Minolta MC 35mm 1.8 that was converted to EF Mount. In a few months, I’ll add the 58mm 1.2 that is a breeze to convert with a Leitax adapter. Lowlight is a marketing buzz word. I can get clean 1600 ISO on an f/2 lens with my 5D3 and acceptable 3200 with a 1.4... nothing a little Neat Video won’t clean up... I don’t really need any more than that and if I do, I’ll flip a switch. Honestly, since this is primarily a hobby for me, I will mostly shoot Raw going forward and how can you beat 4K Raw up to 60p with DPAF? Btw, the C200 is pretty good in lowlight. Sorry, it should have read... Are we really discussing wide depth of field to argue that the GH5s is as good in lowlight as FF, especially the a7s?

Agreed they are both great but Usability, no it is a bit subjective with things favouring each and depends on what use you have in mind. Reliability. Again, subjective. I have never had any issue of reliability with my A7s in a couple of years use. Portability? Both are around the same size and both can be made big or small as systems. (original A7s is actually smaller). Adaptability, well any lens you can use on the GH5 CAN be adapted to the A7s but not the other way around (though M43 lenses can be pointless adapting to the Sony mostly). For many people, I would think the GH5 would make more sense than an A7s and especially for video in daylight/controlled lighting but for others (me included), the A7s is a better camera so far.

Sir Adam Wilt, so to speak ;-)

Adam Wilt provides what I'd say is probably the best review of the camera. Not "best" as in positive. I mean "best" as in the most comprehensive without exaggerating the impact of its highlights or shortcomings. Just straightforward reporting of his findings. Definitely a worthy read for any owners or potential buyers. https://www.provideocoalition.com/review-panasonic-au-eva1-4k-cine-camera/

Don't sweat it! There will always be naysayers... ; ) Finding anything to try proving your grass is less greener. @mercer Glenn, time to book your GH5 series driving test! Lucky boy, they only released two versions! ;-)

Saying it outperforms at high ISOs seems obvious on the surface, but it's not that simple. Keep in mind that the GH series has 4 available stops over middle gray. The EVA1 has 6 stops over middle gray. You could overexpose the EVA1 by two stops and still have the same amount of room in the highlights that the GH5S has. and it will look just as good or better when you bring it back down in post. Also The GH5S is likely employing NR at higher ISOs, the EVA1 isn't. Giving you more flexibility to remove it with greater precision in post. Beyond that the EVA1 also gives you more dynamic range, more detailed resolution by oversampling from 5.7k, V-Gamut offers a much wider color gamut, no lag from the HDMI output, and no internal sharpening. The EVA1 definitely has its shortcomings, but there remains many advantages for it over the GH series.

I brought the in-camera highlight curve down a bit on the lowly G7 which I thought helped highlight roll-off with the more fragile 8-bit image.

yep, that’s possible. and check this out... this is from the GH5, and recently posted on facebook to make the point that you can adjust the highlight knee, but if you showed these to someone without that info they’d assume one had higher dynamic range.

You might look at this too. He did one for a high end PC, and one for $800

I doubt we'll see a GH6s for two years. GX95 this year, GH6 and G10 year after, GH6s year after that. I bet GH5s will be as nice paired with the GH6 as with the GH5. I think it will fill its niche for a good while to come.

true.

It sounds like a beautiful camera. I don't have a Sony and I've long wanted a low light specialist but I'm very invested in M43. With other cameras to do what this can't (e.g. IBIS, long battery runs) I think it's a great addition to the kit. It's a specialist camera for specific uses - the richest looking 4K images for controlled productions, and a cam that sees into the darkness on a sticks. Given the power draw of the dual ISO (making the camera only slightly more energy efficient than the GH5, down specifically from the GH4 largely due to IBIS), I can believe that IBIS was cut for heat and energy efficiency reasons.

Well we all must admit this thread has at least been exciting to put it mildly. You lost me with the FS700, that camera had the worse image ever in a Sony camera. I really doubt the GH5s is going to be proved to have a shitty output.

f8 plus 25k for a7s would be the same as f4 plus 6400 for gh5s regarding light gathering and dof, putting the GH5s into an advantage for a CINEMATIC image, A7s showing nasty artefacts, GH5s absent of any of these nasties and with much more vivid color. Additionally I would put my speedbooster on it and put "my":) GH5s on F5.6, equalling the DOF of f11 on the A7s.

It´s the best ISO 3200/6400 image, if you are after a cinematic image, not last resort kind of images seeing into the nolight areas. At lower ISOs it´s up there with the big boys, which the Sony is very far from being so. At lower ISOs the Sony has an image I can can reproduce and better easily with a 350 dollar Lumix G7.

They are very distinct cameras to my eyes. Very true though. GH5 is easier to mimic the sister under certain circumstances. Nonetheless... go figure for street cinematography or landscape by night... ...here's the other side instead:

Yes, when read this back the firmware update came out I thought it was only for the Micro Studio (which is of zero interest to me). Nah, that is nonsense. Even the GH5 is is better than the a7S mk2! (come on, ten bit internal! Or 4K 60fps, or waveforms monitoring! So much goodness there) Am skeptical if the a7Smk3 will catch up with the GH5 original, and the GH5S is a leap ahead! Plus the a7Smk3 is guaranteed to cost more.

I was so undecided whether to buy a GH5 or G9 or GH5s ... and I solved all my problems. I bought the Panasonic Leica Summilux 12mm F/1.4 and the Panasonic Leica Nocticron 42.5/1.2 ... they will add more to my videos and pictures with the GX-80 than those new bodies. There is always time to buy a new body :D

Uh, well... very deep question, touching whole Existence - so, maybe idea for GH5E!

Mercer the living IBIS:) Sad, that my favorite thread seems no more active due to the GH5s, which makes using lenses obsolete:)

I have Tokina +0.4 and Minolta 100-500mm Achromats and can say for sure the Minolta is a tad stronger at +0.43. Quality of both are virtually identical (superb). I'm currently selling one of my Minolta's on Ebay that has element separation on its edge. It looks ugly as hell from the outside but surprisingly shows very little effect on camera unless directly provoked with a light source on the effected area on a wide angle lens (then it will show a faint glow). If using on a lens with smaller entrance pupil such as a Helios44 - then the effected area can be avoided all together. I've put the starting bid at what I paid for it a few years ago (cheap because the separation issue). Pretty ideal for someone who wants a Tokina quality fractional achromat - but who can live with it's cosmetic appearance. Here is a rough test to show the Minolta's fractional added power over the Tokina. Don't worry about edge softness - that is the lens' quirk (Lomo)...just look at centre sharpness and the fractional distance the camera needed to be nudged forward when Tokina used - to match the power of the Minolta.

For this reason... BM and other companies, I'm going to wait till at least after NAB 2018 to satisfy by ever growing G.A.S.

The a7s was introduced at NAB 4 years ago and now with Sony's newest sensor m43 has caught up, until the a7s3 gets a refresh similar to this. While the gh5s is impressive, I'm still waiting to see what Sony brings - since it'll have IBIS and likely PADF. Used a7sII's are selling in the $1700 range on Fred Miranda, for me that makes the gh5s a tough sell as I have no native m43 glass and would need a speed booster to get a s35 FOV. As always its great to have options.

The gents over at Extrashot seemed to really like the 1080p overall. Probably because it might downsample better than the GH5. The 240fps slowmo looked really good. You would get moiré if you'd shoot that way with a brick wall in the background however. They've also tested C-AF btw, and it's still a bit half-assed. And it will remain that way until they change up their approach and incorporate new tech in that area I'm afraid. Yeah, I remember people were afraid for this in combination with anamorphic lenses. Where you wouldn't want the sensor to 'roll' on you, because it would skew the anamorphic effect. Also, if you have a lens with noticable vignetting, you'd see it shift. Then there's all the other reasons people have mentioned. Partly operating noise that can be picked up by mics. Issues with heat dissipation. Sensor access for effective data pulling and what the industry pro's were saying is that with shaky cars, explosion shockwaves, etc, the free floating sensor would pick up vibration without being able to cancel it out, which wasn't the case when they'd cram a GH4 in tight or risky spots. It's also been stuck in the old GH5 body, so there wasn't really a way to incorporate it. And even if they would be able to with a GH6... some industry pros apparently simply wouldn't want it period.

Look, what bothers me most is not that Apple missed a bug here (though it's not exactly awesome that this slipped their QA). It's the reaction of the FCP X fanbase, among them famous Ripple trainer Mark Spencer, who openly denies that something is wrong. Despite clear evidence. By some individuals, Ubsdell was treated like a traitor, and I find this contemptible. I'm not one of these blinded. I still think FCP is best for editing. And still, even if the new CC tools all worked as expected, Resolve is faster for serious grading. Nodes are more appropriate for organization, there is an easy wipe/splitscreen mode, and I love the still store. I can have best of both worlds, fortunately, because I find the roundtripping very easy and reliable.

Better auto focus too: "After spending lots of time comparing all the videos from both camera, I feel very comfortable to say the GH5S has noticeably better video tracking performance when compared to the GH5. (GH5S running pre-production firmware 0.2 GH5 running firmware 2.2) GH5S’s focus tracking just seems to be more responsive, it pick up changes a lot quicker. And the most important thing is the consistency seems to be much better than the GH5. With the GH5, when it detects and tracks the subject, frankly I think it works not too bad. The problem is that every now and then, the camera would just take a nap and stop or take a long time to follow the subject. Now with the GH5S, while it is still not perfect, but the consistency is just so much better. The GH5S almost always can detect any changes in focus and adjust reasonably quickly and correctly afterwards. I also notice a lot less overshoot when it’s adjusting focus as well when compare to the GH5." If the GH5S is already that good with pre-production firmware, how much better is it going to be once polished up and shipped? :-D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLNQmaEdBUQ http://www.photobyrichard.com/reviewbyrichard/panasonic-lumix-gh5s-review/

Wrote up a blog post sharing my thoughts about the Panasonic GH5S, and my excitement about it being the first stills camera with true timecode capabilities: http://ironfilm.co.nz/leaked-the-specs-of-the-panasonic-gh5s-finally-we-get-the-first-stills-camera-with-timecode-i-o/

Number 1 legit German camera tech sit slashcam tested the EVA1 throughout. They call it the possibly best sub 10000 camera available and a hit to come. For the people wondering about 8 and 10 bit difference of c200 and EVA1 codec, here is a comparison of a shot they pushed 5 stops in post: https://www.slashcam.de/images/texte/1637-CanonC2008Bit5stopsUNder-CanonC2008Bit5stopsUNder.jpg https://www.slashcam.de/images/texte/1637-EVA10Bit_5stopsunder-EVA10Bit_5stopsunder.jpg https://www.slashcam.de/images/texte/1637-C200_12Bi5stopstUnder-C200_12Bi5stopstUnder.jpg Canon 8bit with 148mbit, EVA 10 bit with 150mbit, Canon Rawlite with 1000mbit.