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This. The thing to look for isn't so much Mojo but Mego as in it makes you want to go out and use it. That's what concerns me about the A7iii as its a great spec but the only thing I ever feel like shooting after picking up one of their cameras is myself, with a large calibre pistol.

If it was so definable and attributable to particular cameras then every single "Guess The Camera" thread would have a majority of right answers surely? And they really don't. At all.

Funny how this is a hot topic, with almost no information at all! I put C100mkII and NX1 there, and just in memory of the camera that started it all, I will put the 5DmkII as well, but I had to use it a few times the last couple of years, and I hated the experience. Mojo for me is not only the picture you take, but to feel confident while in hard working hours, and to feel that everything is right in place (I know a lot of people will spell simply "ergonomics", but it's not even that, it's the mojo on that!) and that you will do the job, whatever the circumstances and the difficulties. These cameras haven't failed me repeatedly, for many years now, and while I am working with a lot of brands and models per year, these are my workhorses, and favorite ones to work with.

Ebrahim Sadaawi.

First question has to be what are you having for lunch ?

I am not really sure that is the right way of looking at things. The Sony A7 was launched at US$1700 in October 2013. Today it can be bought from B&H new for US$800. 4 years ago a sub US$1,000 FF new for less than US$1,000 was almost unthinkable. The A7iii is a powerhouse. In most respects it surpasses (imho) the US$3200 Canon 5D MK4 - so you can easily argue it is a bargain. In fact, in the stills world at least, this makes things fairly tricky for Panasonic, Olympus and Fuji who price their premium models at the same price point but with much smaller sensors. Canon appears to have morphed into a manufacturer of entry level cameras.

Basically only Netflix mandates 4K, and even then ONLY for their commissioned productions (which is but a teeny tiny part of their entire library). The odds of multiple major buyers mandating high than 4K resolution in the near future? Next to nil! Thus is FUD and scaremongering to suggest otherwise. But if a person is really feeling that paranoid, then just get the Kinefinity 6K instead.

I have no skin in this game, but on the Fuji camera forum I frequent a couple of people who have received their X-H1s are reporting that the AF is noticeably quicker. Obviously that's for stills - and they haven't detailed the lenses used - but I guess we shouldn't dismiss it too early. Those of us who use Fuji cams know that there is a difference similar to that between the weather in England right now and that enjoyed in the Florida Keys in AF performance between lenses.

I hear lots of love on this forum for cameras like the 1DC, the C100, etc. The context is that they're more than just the stats, that it's something potentially involving the movement, or the sharpness (or lack thereof), or maybe the colours.. I'm sure there's other things too. Three questions: 1) Which cameras have it? 2) For each camera that has it, what is it about that camera that gives it that mojo? Movement? Colours? Highlight rolloff? .....what? 3) How much of this can be done in post? Surely if you record 13-stops DR high-bitrate in 10-bit there's enough data to get the colours, maybe the highlight rolloff? Maybe sharpness can be tailored?

Well I think it’s probably a symbiotic relationship. Some filmmakers just seem to have a beautiful relationship with certain cameras... Andrew Reid with his hacked GH1/GH2 films. Kendy Ty with his t2i videos, that Ruslan guy with his Leica D-Lux 6 videos, Ed David with his NX1 video, Mattias with any camera he picks up, etc, etc, etc... so I think some combination of craft and mechanics can give almost any camera or more importantly film that “mojo.” But it does seem that certain cameras have it in spades. Think about it... on a technical level... 8K Red should obliterate Alexa footage, but it doesn’t...

NX1, if it didn't have really bad rolling shutter and poor support I would still be using it. The color dammit...I love my A7r II, but I am always chasing the skintone and color I got out of the NX1. Still working on an in camera profile that might come close.

For me mojo would mean a camera that is simple to operate and gets a beautiful image out of the box. BMPCC has come the closest.

What no love for the 2.5K BMCC?

In my experience, the most significant part of the mojo of most cameras still resides within the circuitry of whoever is operating it. I've made enough bad images with good cameras to recognise it. Prefix it with "Then" and it will be interpreted as such but honestly I'm just not going to engage any more with this. Its no coincidence that every thread that I open that you are involved in might as well start auto playing the theme tune from Rocky. English may not be your first language but antagonism might well be.

On the multiple forums for making moving pictures I've frequented over the past decade, There are three cameras that are talked about in terms of "mojo" than any other. 1. Sony F35. 2. Digital Bolex. 3. Canon 1DC.

I think the ES that @jonpais is using is "Errata Sendorum", which is an old Latin phrase used in English contract law in reference to failing to deliver an SLR Magic Rangefinder

Well strangely enough I 'am' an economist (or have a PHD in Economics from Cambridge Uni (UK))...

Also, if you happen to land a job to shoot something for netflix, there is a chance they have a budget for you to get a camera from a rental place if you ask nicely

I'm not aware of the forum rule that outlaws 'wild conjecture'.

Mine arrived this morning. I've got some work to do now but I'll be playing with this after lunch if you have any questions.

The cameras with the most mojo Ive had have all been low cost and much cheaper relative to the new releases. So it absolutley isnt a correlation between mojo and price imo.

Probably Japan yes. Here I kind of doubt it. Sell those 100 lenses you have acquired you never use Glenn. Heck I might buy a few from you.

I agree with you about costs. I spent a ton of time and a ton of money trying to find the right camera that fit my needs and non-traditional way of shooting narratives. After a dozen sub $1000 cameras I ended up trying the XC10... which I loved but the depreciation was way too much and way too quick for my budget minded way of shooting. I tried the Pocket and the Micro but both are not really suitable for run and gun. And to make them suitable required me to use Micro 4/3 lenses... which I hate. So on a lark, I bought a 50D and fell in love with Canon and ML Raw. But that camera is a pain for Raw video for narratives... so I tried a few other cameras and inevitably saved up for a 5D3 and I couldn’t be happier. But the 5D3 is big and as you know, Raw video takes a lot of storage. So when I was cleaning out an old hard drive, I found a bunch of old tests and although the resolution of the various 4K cameras I owned “looked” better... my favorite videos were made with a Canon camera. Seriously I liked my old t2i videos better than I liked the G7 videos. Obviously Panasonic makes a great product but I just find I prefer Canon video... I enjoy that soft and flattering shallow depth of field more than I like tack sharp wide angle shots. Also I find the Canon looks more cinematic. So, that’s why I would choose the M50 over the G7 or the G85. Also I want to start doing more stills and the appeal of the aps-c sensor suits me more than the Micro 4/3. But for the occasional 4K video... I can deal with the crop. But this is just a casual camera for hobby shooting, so for what it is, it could be great. Of course I probably won’t buy one until they drop below $700 or a lot less... so who knows what will be released by then. But if I was trying to make a living with video, I’d honestly buy an 80D until I could save up for a C100 II. That camera is just a workhorse and would pay for itself with a couple jobs. I work in the trade show industry and nine out of ten times, the videographers on the show floor are shooting with Canon DSLRs or C100s. It’s only on web forums where those cameras get looked down upon. I’d love to know how you make a little extra cash? I’ve been thinking of ways to recoup a little of the money I spent over the past couple of years but I wouldn’t even know where to begin.

^Do you work for Samsung? You know their camera line went out of business and you're not being paid anymore right? :P

I bet you can buy two A7III for the price of one. Plus GM lenses and a lollypop... Just kidding, but the price of the A7III is not so bad. Instead, i believe the price in dollars is a bargain for these specs. Price in euros though...

To be fair, Sony have been listening and their latest gen bodies/batteries are narrowing the gap between consumer/prosumer. Also instead of cutting off a bunch of features and pricing the cam at 1400/1500. Sony actually gives you a lot of their flagship specs for "only" $2000. It's a smart strategy. People think they're getting a bargain when they are going to be spending a lot more for the entry-level model than previously.

Well, Netflix productions will be renting something higher end than a Kine, EVA, UMP, etc regardless. This is more a competitor to those cameras--low end workhorses for owner-operators.

Only Canon can be so damn stupid. What the hell is wrong with them!!! God they really are risking, other than @mercer buying a camera from them losing the farm.

Interesting. I've done similar tests with noisier cameras (C300, Alexa, F35) and not seen any banding because of the heavy dithering from the noise in the source footage. I suppose it goes to show it's worth doing your own tests! Certainly it seems to make a big difference here.

Thanks for your effort cantsin....very interesting your results.....I would love to see something similar for Canon C-log....8-bit 420 and 8-bit 422 are almost the same in your results and in canon C-log I am expecting a bigger difference...

Not sure exactly what you mean by the jerky thing. It is really really good if you are trying to hold an image still, you can easily make a usable shot with the 56mm. If you are panning with it on you'll get the floaty floaty floaty move thing you get with all stabilisers - lens and body based. It's good. It is generally better at side to side rather than back to front tracking and it likes simple scenes and lots of light - but it works. S Priority is pretty smooth. Auto ISO is ok but not spectacular. A priority is noticeably jerky. No, once its acquired focus it tends to stay put. The autofocus performance is pretty dependent on the lens you use. On the older ones like the 23/1.4mm and 56mm it is not as snappy, precise or as smooth as the newer ones like the 16-55.

I decided to go with the a7rIII instead of the A7III. Other than the availability & megapixels, in video specifically, the main differences were that A7III has worse rolling shutter but is better in low light and has better resolution in FF. That's all I could find really. I am going to wait until the A7sIII is announced as well (around the time that the A7III would be available anyways) and I might sell the A7rIII for it.

LoL. The new body style is a lot better. I don't think Sony ever designed the A7 series cameras to have a 100-400mm lens or bigger hanging off of them. With a small prime you can stick one in your coat pocket. That is pretty amazing. And with the crop mode in it and Clear Zoom, damn you have like 3 lenses in one using it.

Thanks - oh no, I'm not at all spending my life searching for it But I'm in this thread and I'm simply by habit trying to maybe learn most of that, that is possible (here) to learn. Of course it is not asking for quantification - just some most important variables to which I can pay more attention... And from my question mustn't be supposed that I'm without experience - I'd say, rather contrary But such is my nature - first, I'm totally not interested for what I already know; second it is quite often possible to find some wonderful and smart insight everywhere - for example, presented wonderful footage from French author you post here first - of course, thanks for that...

Nice video. But it looks like you have a Hell of a lot of "White Noise" in it LoL.

I don't know man... you seem to be settling-in.... you know.... in that comfortable - convenient zone. From full frame to mft.... from leica primes to 1 standard zoom.... pretty soon a point and shoot would be good enough... dare I say it? An Iphone will be good enough? Add the 1dc in there too for good measure and we are golden.

Out of likes, but great write up, and would be hard to add anything to your reply. But I am pretty sure any of the more talented people could take a iphone and make it look damn near as good as a Cine camera with time. These big movie studios have pretty much everything going for them. Nearly endless talent at every turn. It would be Hard to screw up stuff unless the script or the budget just sucks.

@BTM_Pix - peace and love, peace and love.

The most salient point about Ringo (especially in the context of this analogy) is that he was the best drummer FOR The Beatles even if there are some who maintain he wasn't the best drummer IN The Beatles

Seeing as arguing is the new co-operating here at EOSHD: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-drummers-of-all-time-20160331/ringo-starr-20160325

@PannySVHS you need the Fotasy brand c-m4/3.

I plan to get out with it over the weekend, but I honestly feel like I'm going to really like this camera. My opinion at this point: The grip is nice, the camera feels real comfortable in my hands. Button placement great. The IBIS, just from the few meaningless clips I shot, it's AMAZING! I think I'm going to love this Eterna profile.

@Kisaha I agree with you. But please let's not compare color science between manufacturers! IMNSO people tend to understate this important aspect of making pictures. Just sayin' : ) FF look or similar is nothing but also a full combination of lots of aspects, optics included. Add an inexpensive f/0.95 Mitakon, only as an example, and you'll have it on APS-C format as you well know it :-)

okay I stopped at 3. bmcc 2.5k definitely takes number 4 spot.

I'm enjoying using magic lantern on the 50D, especially the crop mode. Only downside I'm still trying to work out is that liveview turns pink when you're in crop mode and hit record (with lens IS turned on), so focussing can be a bit tough. Other than that this camera is pretty amazing for video. Here's something I shot with my music, mostly 1920x1080 crop mode, with some shots using full sensor (1568x882). Lens: Canon 17-55mm f2.8. Unfortunately youtube compression does seem to make the image visibly softer than in the original file - I guess the snowfall doesn't help with compression!

There is a PL mount to EOS M adapter, but it's from MTF so it's expensive: https://www.srb-photographic.co.uk/pl-mount-to-canon-eos-m-mtf-camera-adaptor-9290-p.asp I don't know if there are cheaper alternatives. Funnily enough I was talking to the MTF guys at BVE expo yesterday asking them if they had an EOS M to M4/3 adapter! It would be great to use Micro 4/3 lenses or a BMPCC speed booster on the EOS M. Unfortunately no such adapter exists. For my Pentax 6mm f1.2 prime c-mount tv lens, I've just cut out a piece of paper and am using that as a shim (making the lens screw in less), which makes it slightly more usable. Without that, infinity focus and the lens distance markings are completely off with all my adapters. Thanks so much for testing this - good to know and may consider this lens in future if I have money! I don't imagine it would cover a 16:9 crop frame on the EOS M (which is approx 1800x1024) since that's a fair amount more than super 8 size, but if you're able to check at some point that would be useful.

I can tell you as an industry UX Designer there is nothing "light" about this device, other than the obvious stripped down UI. The problem isn't our devices, it's our phycology. The devices exploit our phycology but they aren't the root of that issue, only a side effect, and not the only one. They are a mirror that shows us or tendency to avoid anything painful. I appreciate what this company is trying to acheive, because I think it's trying to address a real issue. I just don't agree with the approach. It's no different than chaining the refrigerator when your doctor tells you you've been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Sure, you inherently lose weight and reverse the disease, but you have only changed the exterior symptom of a deeper cause. As soon as those chains are released, you're headed for a relapse. You're not addressing the core behavior and what's driving it. A healthy person would and should be able to have a healthy and balanced relationship with their digital life irregardless of the vehicle they use to acheive it. I'll let you guys in on an industry secret. Many in my field use devices very little in our personal lives. Maybe it's because we design for them 10 hours a day, but I would be lying if I said part of our job isn't an exploitation of people's insecurities and increasing desire for instant gratification as ordered by business objectives. Anything used to sooth, hide, aviod, escape negative feelings can become an addiction, smartphones are no exception. What we need (and have) are programs that detox people's addiction to their digital life. The trick here, is not to replace it with another type of addiction. A good trend that we're seeing in our industry is a push to make technology more automated and "headless", meaning AI anticipates user intent without the user having to interface with a visual UI at all, which translates to no face burried in screen. We're a lot closer to this than the general public is made aware of, meaning it's already here, albeit in unrefined form. By large, most camera tech is slightly to moderately behind the technology curve. What you're really getting in that brand new shiny camera is already 1-3 years old when it gets released unto the world.

@webrunner5 Don, buy away... let me know what you’re looking for... I’ll give you the grumpy old dude discount. Lol.

I am trying to be silent on this thread because of the recent bad blood, but I have to say it. Some of the above negatives are the positives that keep us closely to our NX1's so many years after its release. Super accurate and responsive touch control, that can change almost anything with one button (Fn + multi touch functions), plus Fn button on the lens, that can adjust settings rotating the focus ring (yes, it can do that as well). Movie Record Button (programmable), and movie mode (on stand bye) with one button (no dials whatsoever for that, of course there are programmable positions in the program dial if you'd like), and almost everything on thumb and index fingers. Those are small things for some, for others quite substantial, and only @Andrew Reid can confirm these!

Thanks @canonlyme ... great points.I can just barely afford to make this film, so sadly pennies need to be pinched elsewhere... like craft services, new computer, calibration doo hinky... lol. Thanks... Ha. I’m shooting with a 5D3 and ML Raw and mostly EF lenses. This was with a Canon FD 50mm 1.4 that was modified to a Nikon mount so it mounts to EF with a simple adapter. I actually found a Minolta 35mm 1.8 that was modified to EF as well... It needs to be serviced but it works amazingly well with ML Raw...