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Is 8bit HDR or HLG a "joke"? Here is an HDR HLG video shot from the same camera (Sony FS5) using its internal 8bit 420 Slog2 XAVC and Slog2 recorded externally from 14bit RAW to 10bit ProRes HQ (Atomos Shogun). So the 8bit is heavily compressed (100 Mbps), the 10bit is not (950 Mbps!). Totally unfair to the 8bit. But, let's see... Same scenes - for each the first version is from Slog2 ProRes 10bit, the second from XAVC 8bit SLog2 placed on the same timeline. The video was rendered in HLG 10bit DHxNR HQ in Resolve Studio and sent to YouTube. No color correction other than the Resolve presets converting Slog2 to HLG and level adjustments. It is a real HLG video. You can easily tell which is which, since the 10bit source from RAW is 4K DCI and the 8bit source is 4K UHD. The video has plenty of blue sky, ripe for banding. And lots of detail, and high contrast with those pesky white clouds ripe for blowouts. There is a difference. But does it matter? Is it fixable? A laughable joke? If you do not like the test ("the test is a joke," "the test tells me nothing," "YouTube converts to 8bit anyway, so what?"), suggest what you would want to see instead. I can do anything with the original Slog2 clips, including making them available for download. Finally, why do we care about this? ALL Sony mirrorless cameras and camcorders less than $8,000 that have log gammas (Slog2/3) and/or HLG only shoot 4K in 8bit 420 - the RXxxx series, the A7xxx and the A6xxx series, and the FS5. If shooting in log or HLG at 8bit to make 4K HDR videos is a joke, that would call into question what Sony is trying to sell, and what anyone should consider buying (note, the GH5 can only do 10bit 422 in 4K30p, not 4K60p). No Canon cameras/camcorders do 4K 10bit below $8,000 either I think. And they have log gammas. Is this a big deal?

C'mon.....Its been Monday for 10 whole hours now @Arikhan

Well, the debate can end, the master has spoken.

Here is a VFX heavy short film I shot on the Samsung NX1 years ago, finally decided to finish it and get it online so here it is! The last scene is the canon T3i all lenses used are the rokinon 24mm f1.4 and Canon 50mm f1.4 Watching in 4k is strongly recommended as YouTube loves compressing things

My advice would be to sell the D700, D800 and Atomos Ninja Flame. Use the funds towards a D850.

My guess is it's doing 8/10 bits. But even with 8bit RAW, the image should be much more malleable in post and recover shadows and highlights better, you control the amount of denoising and don't have to worry about nailing perfect WB or using log. All this is very welcome over H.265 imo.

The X-H1 (and X-T2) also does the 6K to 4K thing, so you get the same type of resolution with their 4K video as you do with the Sony bodies that do that. For me if it's between an X-H1 and an a6500, I'd take the X-H1 all day long, but it's a lot more money. I'm trying to decide between using the Fuji system vs Sony full frame (a7 iii, a9, etc). At this point I think Fuji is winning, and it's 100% based on color. At this point the quality of the final product rests solely on the person behind the camera. Pick you brand - Fuji, Sony, Panasonic, Canon, Nikon, etc - every single brand makes cameras and lenses that can produce incredible video (and stills). They all have their strengths and weaknesses, and they all will require you to adapt them to your workflow (or adapt your workflow to them). To me it's about picking what strengths and weaknesses are most/least important to me and what best fits the way I work. Color is such a huge factor for me - I'm discovering it may be the most important factor, actually - assuming a camera can do the basics right. And when it comes to color, nobody can beat Fuji, in my opinion. Yeah I think they released that along with the X-H1, and I've seen some people use it with great results. I haven't tested that yet, but I'd like to soon. I actually used to use Blackmagic cameras. I had some Studio 4k cameras and then the Ursa Mini 4.6k. I shot with the film/log profile, but lately I'd rather just get good colors out of the body - log is often more work than it's worth, personally.

I've yet to see 4k that, per pixel, is as sharp as 1080p downscaled from a 4k source. But stills I've seen from TOTL dSLRs certinly show that potential... the 8K Reds might provide meaningfully more resolution, I haven't seen raw footage from one. Early Red footage was SUPER soft. Now we're seeing 4k that's meaningfully sharper to the eye than 2k/1080p... On what display is the question. Even on IMAX, 2k Alexa looks good to me. And the C100MkII is just as sharp (worse in other respects, of course). Both are way sharper than 35mm film (as projected, but even look at blu ray stills from film and see how surprisingly soft they are). But on a 5k iMac, I notice a bigger difference since I sit so close to it. Even there, the difference isn't huge between 4k and 5k, though. It is with UI elements, not so much with video. And the difference between 4k cameras will be even way less significant. For me, 2k is enough for video. For most, I think 4k will be. For now... I think the only substantive shift (beyond already significant meaningful aesthetic differences between cameras and lenses) will be when HDR takes off. And HDR imo is going to evolve in a different direction entirely, even more naturalistic, maybe HFR, etc. maybe even integrating with VR. The C300 Mk II and Alexa (and in practice the F65 and new Reds and Venice probably) all meet that standard of 15+ stops 10 bit rec2020 etc., But HDR is changing fast so I wouldn't even sweat it unless HDR delivery is important to you. Of course, I don't know if by "reasonably affordable" you mean an A7S or an F55. I think there's already a rather big difference there, though the two can be seamlessly intercut if you're careful to mitigate the A7S' weaknesses.

Not bad. The 1080 does upscale to 4k nicely. Here is a 3k to 4k upscale i did awhile back. I still haven't found a camera that can match the color, detail, motion cadence of the 5DMK3 in raw unless I want to spend a fortune. Canon could really truly rule everyone if they wanted. It's such a tragedy. :-(

Seems interesting. I wish Kinefinity would come out with a pocket camera. If it were cheap enough, I’d definitely give it a try... and maybe a direct competitor for BM would give them a kick in the ass to develop a pocket 2 or lowering the price of the original.

Yep. Works particularly well with teh SLR Magic Rangefinder, or so I hear.

Magic Lantern released their update on april 1st so my hopes are high

Some stills: Schneider ES Cinelux 2x (Custom Single focus) Chinon 50mm F:1.7 wideopen Sony a6300

Yeah, the A7III is a steal :D

I have economy exam on Wednesday. So, to answer you in your language: BTW: Are animated GIFs the future of conversation? I hope not...

Potential solution depending on how you're working.... Cage for the Shogun which you can then attach camera strap to. Cheap quick release plate on the cage to get it on and off your rig for when you want to monitor on it for composition setup etc and use the camera screen for actually shooting and have it over your shoulder when you don't. If you are mainly using it as a recorder then you can leave it over the shoulder and set the HDMI trigger to auto start stop when you press record on the GH5. https://www.amazon.co.uk/SmallRig-Camera-Monitor-Assassin-Recorder-1788-Cage-1788/dp/B072MS5J3W

We need a non-screen, small and light recorder that has the same recording capability as the Shogun Inferno from Atomos. Now, I power the Inferno and the FS5 from one battery, using D-tap. That lightens the load considerably. But the size of the Shogun still makes it an awkward combo. My other technique is to to just put the Inferno in a shoulder bag, attached to the FS5 by the thin SDI cable. I really do not need the screen.

Historically we will plateau when IQ becomes close to the limits of our perception, HOWEVER we are nowhere near these limits yet. Think 4k is enough because movie theatres were fine in 2K? What about VR capture - if your field of view is 120 degrees (just to pick a nice number) then that means you need 6k to spread 2K over your entire vision, but that's not what we're talking about here - we're talking about the angle of view of a TV - which is something more like 45degrees, which means you need 8 * 2K horizontal, just to properly render sitting in a room watching a 2K TV. What about VR simulation of a 4K TV? Forgetaboutit!! But why just talk about resolution - let's talk about pixel depth.. what is the DR of the human eye? When they get "retina DR" devices, what will the bit depth of that video signal look like across that amount of dynamic range? I'm thinking that 10-bit isn't going to cut it at that point. And we're only talking 2D here.... what happens when we want 3D environments to be simulated from AI processed video feeds? Just mount a grid of cameras in the ceiling perhaps 12 inches apart and feed all those to an AI that creates a 3D VR environment and UH OH! The AI doesn't have enough information to go by and so the virtual attendees of the latest Hollywood whatever event can't see the expressions on the stars faces (or tell the difference between Elijah Wood and Daniel Radcliffe!) so we need to up the resolution. Now deaf people can't lip read, up it again. Now the FBI gets interested and decides that the tech is now ready for AI facial microexpression monitoring at all airports and other critical locations - more resolution needed! To many of you this will sound like science fiction, but you will be proven wrong. if you want evidence of this - pick up your smartphone and start talking to your virtual assistant, and then cast your mind back 35 years when many people still had Black and White Television. This is an array of audio microphones with computer processing... 8 years ago. https://www.wired.com/2010/10/super-microphone-picks-out-single-voice-in-a-crowded-stadium/

This is a good discussion. While you can shoot HLG internally in the FS5, you cannot externally shoot HLG directly using the Atomos Inferno from the FS5. Internally, the FS5 is set to Slog2, even for SDI RAW output. One has to convert Slog2 to something; could have been HDR10 or REC709. And, the differences one sees are due both to the bitrate difference and the large difference in the amount of compression. All Sony cameras below $8,000 shoot in Slog2, 8bit. Sony has been touting this ability for many years. It's a feature allegedly designed for pros. So, if you want you can think of this test as a test of Sony's Slog2. But, again, Slog2 needs to be converted to a delivery format for viewing. And HLG is one of those. One can record RAW video externally from the FS5 and then convert in software to REC709, HLG, or HDR10 using 8bit 420 and 10bit 422 and different amounts of compression for comparison. That would reveal what matters and by how much. But then such a comparison would have little do to do with what Sony cameras actually deliver internally, which is the point. One could also record HLG internally and compare that with HLG converted from the RAW output in post, choosing different bitrates and bit depth.

(This is a repost, as the other post was labeled RAW GH5S footage, which the GH5S clearly can't do real RAW ) Here is some rather uninteresting video I shot at night with varying ISO ranges so users can do test grades. It's way too cold right now on Ohio to do anything artistic! Most of the footage is in V-Log, but some is in HLG. Video 6 was shot in ISO-4000 even though I said ISO-400. Video also contains 150Mbps 10-bit and 400Mbps 10-bit samples. I've noticed the HLG videos can be pushed past IRE 100 in Premiere Pro CC, so that may be a good format to try and create an HDR H.265 export from premiere. https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1BPHKWVRXA8ynNSQCCBaLuB9hZ4fxgpB8 Happy Grading.

I would see if the RAW internal recording on the NX1 comes into fruition. If so, and it's as remarkable and reliable as being touted, we may have to reclassify the NX1 to king of the hill. We'll see what April brings. Hopefully not a cruel joke.

Look at how robust ARRI workflow choices are : http://www.arri.com/camera/alexa/workflow/ As far as affordable 4k cameras under Aus $4,000 Canon and Sony are giving us the thinnest codecs they can get away with.

@kye This guy does a lot of videos on best practices for handheld gimbals. You may find it useful. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8sibhG707qg5AlVlj5P3mw

Yeah but you can buy a Sony A7xxx camera and shoot FF or crop mode, s35. Best of both worlds. I really can't see a reason to actually buy a APSC only camera. Not even going the Speedbooster route with one. That way you can take advantage of both kinds of Native lenses. The low light on them is pretty scary good, as is the AF on the later ones, FF DoF. Win, Win, Win, Win. There is just no FF roadmap with the Fuji. Not the end of the world, but not great either. I am not too sure they even make a Speedbooster for a Fuji do they? If so why not?

In case anyone hasn't seen it - Philip Bloom playing with the Terra 4K. Very nice looking footage IMHO.

Check at the A7iii thread, there is a bunch of complaints already. Most of the things you mention are relative to the A7ii, which wasn't a great camera by any means (I hated it!). The color science is dissapointing again, and even though they improved most things, they still are far behind in touch screen implementation, screens, menu system and ergonomics. Also, native zoom lenses are double the price of Canonikon (without being two times better, actually they are not even slightly better!) and we are not sure about the AF of non Sony lenses), and it is a full frame camera, some people do not like the size/weight/price of glass, or image aesthitics/too much depth of field etc Certainly is the best Sony ever - for the price - but except high ISO performance (I never shoot more than 1600, but I would like to be able to, another stop or two) and IBIS (I seriously do not like using it on the GH5) what is better than the NX1? In my case, no reason to rush things. I feel that Canon or Nikon will finally do it.

The only reason I don't own one is that I own a GH5S. I've used the GH5 for a number of jobs, I just don't do stills often enough to consider it for my work.

Well it is pretty hard to beat 4k output from a A6500. Just about the best there is. Now the 1080, well not as good, too soft, but 4k, finger licking good! But I don't care what camera you have today, they all have their good points, bad points. If you like camera A that is the one for you, Camera B that is the one for me, on and on. We live right now in the best time there has Ever been for video cameras the average person can afford that was just a dream 3, 4 years ago. Maybe they were good then, and now they are cheap, and now good, no great ones are coming out left and right. Lucky us to be in this time frame.

Ahh so the Fuji is Not realistic. Hmm. Bummer. The first video you have he is VERY red headed! We have been deceived. Damn Fuji color profiles LoL!

Maybe they need to switch the second one on then

100% with you here! Exactly how I feel. With video, I'm much more confident in my opinions and work since I have more experience. Photography, I'm more prone to insecurity, but that will change with time. On another note, photography is a whole lotta fun. Similar in some aspects to video, but different enough to make it interesting. I feel like doing both keeps each discipline from feeling stale..... and not worrying about audio is a DREAM sometimes.

I should have known better that this was going to spark a my camera is better than your debate. Don't get caught up in specs. If you've taken a good shot, its a good shot regardless what camera took it. The horse goes before the cart here. There's nothing inherently better about full frame in the context of good or bad photography. If that were the logic, then simply owning a medium format camera would make you the "best" photographer in the land. At the end of the day crop factor is entirely arbitrary when you speak in terms of talent and message. The differences in field of view to shallow depth of field ratio is physical, but not creatively insurmountable. A lot of clients hear things said about this or that camera, but don't really know or understand the difference between them. All they know is that their buddy had a recent shoot and the photographer used XYZ camera and they liked the result and thought it looked professional to them. What they don't realize (because they are uneducated) is that in the right hands there's a bunch of other cameras that could also deliver this. In other words, it's the photographer not the camera. The camera simply captures the frame. But what is your frame communicating?

That video is sort of proof that 4k has Really narrowed the gap between cheap stuff, and Oh My God expensive stuff output wise. Sure the iPhone X doesn't have 16 stops of DR, but I certainly didn't see where it was lacking in that video, and you have to put yourself in the vast majority of peoples shoes, they have no clue what the hell DR even is LoL I have the X and it has just about every trick in the book, especially if you use the Filmic Pro App. It has more video stuff than my Note 8. Better specs, but I still sort of like the Note 8 output. It maybe the screen, and the screen size that has more to do with it on the 8 than being "Better". Either way both of my phones are capable of some unheard of output even 3 years ago. I would be damn proud of that video, to most people that is a winner. And what it was taken with just Wow when you think of it. And in your pocket all the time, just a miracle.

Lifting shadows and pulling down highlights is the digital version of burn/dodge, I'm not talking HDR. When shooting a sunset for example, I expose for the sun and bring up exposure in the rest of the image in order to have something visible, otherwise I'd have the sun and a mostly black frame. The sunset from Easter Island posted below is an example. I'm not a fan of blown clouds that are blobs of white with no detail. Another example is from Borobudur, it was a gray morning but the sun was up and not clipping the clouds left the stone structure very dark, raw allowed me to recover more detail in the stones. Jpegs just can't capture everything a 14-bit raw image can - which is closer to what my eyes see and what I want to convey in an image. A simple 2-shot bracket can accomplish the same thing, but I'm doing a lot of traveling - 55 countries and counting - so for me carrying a tripod isn't always practical. Plus I prefer to be small/light and just go run-and-gun with a small bag with me when exploring. I shot a lot of raw + jpeg when with my XT2's and even DR400 wasn't enough, processed raws look better to me. And the ones below are just quick edits on a 12" MacBook, I'll clean them up when I'm back home on my iMac. Everyone has different methods, whatever works for you is cool. Cheers Chris

This is the good ol' rumor. What amazes me, and it is rather significant, is that the rumor is still circulating by many, and different sources, and despite the unbelievable specs, people accept that an NX2 could make them happen. That is how strong an impression the NX1 made in the industry and the initiated.

some news, http://thenewcamera.com/tag/samsung-nx2/

^ This in spades. ^ I've learned this quickly over the years. So many people understandably focus on the camera, but really that's only half or less of the entire picture. In my view you want a tripod, a shoulder rig, a 3-axis motorized gimbal, a glidecam, a slider, a vest, a drone, a jib/crane, a gorilla pod. You want it all basically. It is not very difficult to find justifications to purchase or rent it. To not have it available to you is like a mechanic trying to fix everything on a car with just one socket wrench. It's not happening. This is an expensive field. You're going to be paying considerable costs for this interest and profession regardless how big or small your setup is. The tools of the trade are pricey, and if they're cheap they're pricey in other ways that make you uncomfortable on location or set. Give us your set up time. ? Do you show up to the gig early or are you having the client waiting on you for setup? I always try to show up early. I personally hate having clients and talent watch me set up my rig and start asking technical questions, or look at me like, "Is this really nessecary, can't we just point the camera somewhere and hit record?" I worked recently with a very impatient Director. It was hell. Instead of mitigating the expectations of the talent on the ground, the director made setups much worse by trying to rush me through them and encouraging the talent (mostly amateurs) to start telling me what my job should intel and how long it should take. I mean, how much time does it take to whip out a smartphone and hit record, right? Lots of sighs and moans and sideway looks. It put a lot of pressure on me and ultimately the shoot suffered big time. Also, the Director didn't believe in blocking or storyboarding or anything that resembled planning. Never again. ?

You not getting an X-H1 then Jon?

Rent one and check for yourself. A shoulder rig isn't just about holding your camera.. You have 4 points where your body is connected to the camera, 2 hands, shoulder and your eye. This allows movement and a look you don't get with anything else. You can attach a follow focus and pull focus without shaking. You won't use it all the time- it's a tool for special scenes like a Steadicam or Dolly, you only use it when needed. (Or if you do like an event all day long) If you like the feeling of your rented rig, don't buy a compromise- no gorilla pod and no rig with one handle or anything that costs less than 200 $ (new), you will get pissed of because of screws getting loose and things like that. You always can atttach weight to a rig, but i recommend doing this after all is set up and you can balance it right.

People on eBay right now when they try to outbid EOSHD members for used NX1's.

Well that did it. Now my obsessive curiosity just kicked in. ARGH! If this is true and the record time is decent (get ready for large and fast SD cards) this renders this camera up there with the top of the line cinema cams. That image sensor has a 14bit 6.5k RAW signal.

Dude, you're going to have quite of few of us on the edge of our seats for this one. Please do update us ASAP. Of course this is speculation, but the current 15fps RAW photo buffer is quite short.

Took the lenses for a walk... and I must say so far I am not really happy with the 24-35, at least not wide open. Maybe it is lacking sharpness? The 35-70macro delivers much better in my opinion. Here I have some footage: 1. 24-35 Picture 2. 35-70 Macro Function Here are some AVCHD Full HD Framegrabs: 1. 24-35 2. 35-70 macro 3. 50mm 1.4 .4

Did the focal reducer for NX1 turn out to be viable? If so, that. Are there focal reducers for Fuji's X mount? I assume that, if so then go for this. Otherwise ditch the obsession with "full frame" and go with a Panasonic G80/G85 for maximum bang for buck value. (or alternatively, is 4K *really* essential for the very low budget shoots? Then you could go for a Nikon D750 or Sony a7S mk2 etc)

a7III seems most logical, though a7s2 prices are lower on the used market. If you go speed booster, it opens up Fuji and Sony APS-c.

It's real estate. As they say: "Location, location, location." Basically, it's even naturally lit rooms with lots of ambient light so you don't need 13 stops of DR. I've shot similar with a lowly 5DII. High end properties are designed by high end architects that know what they're doing. Light is a very high priority consideration. Thus, these properties just look awesome all around. You're shooting in space that has already considered the stuff that makes for impressive visuals. This is high-end marketing so they're probably on a really good camera, but I'm not seeing anything too surprising regarding some impressively extended DR. In fact, looks like they're over exposing a bit to grab shadow details.

Time of day will be your friend. Doesn't hurt to have big windows like the ones on the first video. On your work, some shots you have very hot buildings outside but not enough light inside to compensate, so you have to compromise. Choose the time of day wisely and it will be easier to balance inside and outside. Don't fight the sun, use it.

It could be any combination of the following: - Well lit houses with plenty of light coming from the large windows - Using lights to bring the inside/outside closer - High dynamic range camera with log/Raw For example in my house, I can achieve this effect with fairly large and plenty windows + slog2 with A7rII.

I MUST REFRAIN FROM THIS...I MUST REFRAIN FROM THIS...I MUST REFRAIN FROM THIS...