Leaderboard

Philip bloom just posted this. New BM 4k pocket cam https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155176035490426&id=177852000425

That's the most exciting news until now!!!

Taking a look at the Yedlin footage what seems interesting is how little dynamic range is in the 'final output' when compared to how much dynamic range is in the scene. Note the limited DR in the histogram. The footage is also very desaturated. (The camera angle and limited color gamut also seems cinematic.) Take a vaguely similar shot with a digital camera. Straight out of camera it looks something like this... (A7r3) Note that this has bags more dynamic range - it fills the entire histogram and the colors are much more saturated. And that it looks 'digital' However, if you make a tonal adjustment (see below) which compresses the dynamic range - see histogram and tone curve (by raising the blacks and lowering the whites). And reduce the saturation (see below), the photo appears more cinematic... So my feeling is having quite a low dynamic range in your final output is quite key to a cinematic look. Of course you can achieve that with a high dynamic range scene given enough processing leeway (either in camera or post.) Or alternatively, you could achieve it with an iphone given enough additional lighting equipment I would imagine.

Correct this is more of a photo review. We did a video specific review that’s coming soon. We did a video specific review coming soon but we didn’t go into detail about the silent controls too much unfortunately

Leaving tomorrow for NAB. Will be sure to check out the Sony booth... Panasonic is also showing something new!

Here's the thing that makes ProRes so slick for us (and I'm guessing many people.) Shooting in ProRes HQ delivers a really solid "negative" that plays back in real time even on small MBPs in the field - and it's really fast to edit. There's someone here that's ranting about Apple and ipods and whatever makes them see Mac as a scary clown face thing, but really they just deliver solid creative tools for a lot of professionals.

It could even be a conspiracy to steal young children but more than likely it's a new codec that bridges raw acquisition and editing in FCPX. Why is everything always so tribal and conspiratorial? We've got enough of that crap in the political world. Apple has a shit load of FCPX seats around the world and most of them don't want to use Resolve in order to process raw footage and most production companies turning out most of the work don't deal with the raw workflow either. So the logical conclusion is that Apple has developed a new codec for Their users to (potentially) utilize the strengths of raw in their current, preferred workflow. The word "fool people" suggests people are so stupid that they'd use something they don't need or that Apple is working with Dr Evil to deceive the masses with their nefarious new codec. I'm pretty sure it's just a new option aimed at serving their users (free update for us) and dear god don't let this be true - perhaps even increase their market share.

Funny how cineform raw existited since 2005 and is open source and platform independent but companies drag their feet. Whereas when Apple does something that is restricted toac ecosystem they implement it before it even gets released. I do belong to the Mac ecosystem and while the proresraw might offer faster performance I hate the closed system strings that apple attaches.

Soon; there's a lot involved with this one

So, as you may recall, I have an interest in tweaking the combinations of the basic profiles in the camera along with the contrast/sharpness/saturation/NR parameters. The purpose of that is basically a mining operation to see if there are some combinations that perhaps may not be intuitive but whose interaction may yield pleasing results. Outside of the usual "select cinelike d, reduce everything to -5" etc stuff that we all do, who really knows if Natural with +4 contrast/-5 sharpness/+3 saturation/+2 noise reduction might actually be the golden ticket? I did a hardware controller last year based on a midi control surface that let you tweak the parameters in real time which, whilst offering a way of 'discovery through play', wasn't exactly ideal from a structured testing point of view. It also wasn't particularly practical (or cheap) for you to go out and replicate yourselves if you fancied a go ! Anyway, in pursuit of something a bit more structured, I created a very simple automated testing app which I thought I might as well hand out in case anyone else is interested in this sort of thing. Its Android only so you elitists with that other phone type are out of luck for now As its also a bit of a utilitarian thing that was only really designed for my own meddling, its not exactly pretty either but it works. Mainly. OK, so here is how it looks, how to use it and what it does. First things first, obviously, is to enable the Wifi on your Panasonic camera as per if you were using their app and then go into your phone/tablet and connect to it. In the ProfileStepper app, you then press the "Connect" button and it will take control of the camera. It might complain the first time about approving the connection but if it does just repeat and it will be fine. Once connected, you press the individual parameter buttons and select the range that you are interested in so in this example we have set it to be using the base Natural profile and how it looks with all permutations of Contrast from -5 to +3, Sharpness from -2 to 0, Saturation from -5 to +5 and NR from -5 to +1. Next up is to set if you want to use Stills or Video, which we toggle between by pressing the Stills button and then to create a delay (of between 1 and 10 seconds) between shots you press the button (currently set to 2 seconds) and select it. When you are happy with the settings range, press the Start button and the app will begin compiling the list of commands it needs to send to the camera. As this is a variable amount of time (in our example there are 2079 commands ) you may see a progress pop-up before it proceeds to the playout screen. Be patient. The progress screen will then appear and display the value of each parameter in the set it is sending to the camera and the current progress (in this case we are on set 4 of 2079). After it sends each set to the camera, if you have the mode set to Stills it will then fire the shutter on the camera. Obviously, make sure you have a decent memory card capacity if you are testing a lot of permutations! If you are set to Video mode, a recording will begin on the camera as soon as you pressed the Start button and the changes will all be recorded into this one recording. This is where the Delay function becomes useful as it determines how long each setting is held on the video as it progresses. As with the Stills mode, be careful regarding capacity as if you have 1000 permutations with a Delay time of 5 seconds then, well.... In either mode, pressing the Stop button will abort and return you to the main screen and if you are in video mode it will stop the recording. The purpose of the progress screen is not just to provide you with a countdown to whats going on but also meant to act as a slate so that you can put your phone/tablet in your test scene and the settings will then be embedded in the images/video when you review them. This is an example frame from a GX80 to illustrate. There is a 3 second delay built in to the beginning of the command playout process to allow you to do this but obviously as the camera is being controlled over Wifi you can place the phone/tablet in the scene and press Start from there anyway. This just gives you a chance to get your hand out of the way ! So there you go. Its a bit of a niche app to say the least but might be useful for some. Bear in mind, its not really meant to be about analysing every single permutation in one go (though it can do that if you want) its more about helping you to look at how more targeted ranges of settings interact with each other (such as Saturation and Contrast in a specific Profile for example). And what exactly is the Noise Reduction bringing to the party in terms of colour shifts and sharpening etc. Download link is here https://mega.nz/#!Vux3UDIK!TPJNYc8gJ6YrQY5T8xkZRAQ_IpBac16xIIGe3ET6R0Y You'll need to set your device to install apps from non-Play store sources etc. Its completely free, no ads or any bollocks like that. As I say, its my own test tool and wasn't designed for general release but thought it might be useful to share. If nothing else, its a quick way to get the Cinelike D hack on to your camera! Because its just a quick and dirty test tool, there is no particularly elegant error handling going on (other than telling you that you haven't connected the camera) so if it throws one up just quit and restart it. If you set the To range to be lower than the From range (i.e. the From is -3 and the To is -4) then it won't execute the commands so don't do that. NB - The eagle eyed amongst you may have spotted the Bracket function at the bottom of the screen. This does exactly what you might expect but its unrelated to the main function but I needed it to test something so you get it as a bonus! You set the shutter speed and then the 1/3rd steps above and below and press Bracket and it takes the required frames with suitably altered shutter speeds. Its a bit flaky on some Panasonic cameras because they don't all allow the 1/3rd shutter changes so your mileage may vary and, as I say, you can largely ignore it.

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2018/04/final-cut-pro-x-update-introduces-prores-raw-and-advanced-closed-captioning/

I was thinking about ditching the GH5 for the GH5S, because I do like having like a dedicated cinema-style camera, which that definitely is more like. Richer image, forces you to go with more thought-through set-ups (like pre-IBIS days with anything from GH2-GH4). But this... now this might be the actual real deal! The philosophy and pricing behind this is going to be an interesting one. Interesting as well what Z-Cam will finally have to show for... Man, each year schtuff gets more and more exciting; unreal.

This can be huge for Black Magic, and us. The previous one was an ergonomic (and not only) disaster, non pocketable at all, if you had to work with it.

@Jim Giberti so essentially, you're saying PRR is better than DNG solely because it provides a better workflow for FCPX users? In that case, wouldn't it make more sense just to give FCPX native DNG support?

You forgot something... "Foolishly I should have quit earlier to recover the logs from the SD card, but alas that Sandisk appears to be toast, hence the lack of precise data - just my anecdotal report." "Do not try on expensive cards until we figure out what happened!"

I knew I was waiting for something like this...

Yup, really looking forward to more info! Ready to buy it already :D

John Bradley (who I believe would know) confirmed it as real! Very exciting!! What's everyone hoping for? I'd like 4k (seems safe given the billboard) Either m4/3 or s16 sized With cdng raw and prores options Maybe up to 30p at 4k and up to 60p or 120p at fullHD Maybe an anamorphic mode with desqueeze? Built-in ND filters would be amazing A little longer lasting battery would be nice For around $1k I'd buy that instantly

True cinema lenses are not dead by any means. I don't know of any ACs that would like to pull focus from a smart phone. At the rental house where I work, we have invested heavily in Preston and Arri wireless gear. You'll pry the Hand Unit 3 from my cold dead hands. That said, there is a need to cut down on the gunk that hangs off of cameras, as you can see in this picture. The latest generation of Panavision's DXL has a Preston receiver built in and the Primo 70 lenses have lens motors for focus and iris directly inside the lens barrel. So I think that there will be more integration in the future. That said, DSLR-level technology is just not gonna fly on a pro set. Your Panasonic lenses are gonna get destroyed easily. Also, I don't think that anybody wants to let go of human focus-pulling. It's a hard job and it gets harder as sensors get bigger. But it remains an organic, vital part of image-making, and I don't think that machines are gonna be able to deliver that.

just did some follow ups. PW on, RGB 1.00, contrast -5. 9-11 stops, 0-100 IRE, just like with picture wizard off. PW on RGB 1.99 contrast -5, aperture closed 3 stops from previous tests: 10-12 stops of dynamic range, 0-100 IRE. It did indeed have another stop in it by closing the aperture. Gamma DR with RGB 1.99 with aperture closed 3 stops: 10-12 stops of dynamic range, 0-100 IRE. No difference in DR when compared to default Gamma DR settings, though the stop may have moved from the shadows to the highlights. PW on RGB at 0.50, contrast -5, using extra lighting. 9-11 stops, 0-92 IRE. There were indeed extra stops lying in the shadows from the previous test 4, though they require a LOT of light to be discerned. Still, highlights above 90 are clipped. PW on RGB at 0.05, contrast -5, using extra lighting. 7-9 stops, 0-38 IRE. Again, there were stops in the shadows, but this footage is essentially unusable since anything over 38 IRE is clipped. These were all done just with a grey card and adjusting exposure. Strictly testing dynamic range. I cannot speak to the quality of the image since it was just a grey card and I was looking at luminance only. I don't know if you set RGB low and under expose the shot if you can bring the entire image up in post and have usable footage. It may be possible if you drop contrast low enough, but if you peak at 38 IRE, that means all the info needs to be between 0 and 38, therefore my low contrast comment. Let me know if there is anything else I can test. It seems if you are shooting for highlights, the boost is useful in not overexposing, but gamma DR default has the same dynamic range.

I don't know. Here is footage from a cinema lens (shot on a Panasonic GH5) that costs only US$750 brand new. It looks great, but that might be due to the shooter's excellent chops. In regards to programmed focus pulling, it works when the talent can consistently hit their marks, but if the actor lands off the mark, it's nice to have an AC's hand on the focus ring/knob for a quick adjustment.

And since I like a LOT of butter on my pancakes...

agree, hoping Sound Devices surprises with PIX-E 5.5" Monitor Recorder capable of ProRes RAW

Oh well, was looking for a shortcut ! I have an implementation of it that can do it externally (for all Panasonic cameras not just GH5) but it needs some re-thinking to make it smoother. Cheers anyway

What's with this clickbait title? It's a great feature but not all that useful when you have to rack between more than 3 different focus points or don't know where your subject will be next, as in an event or documentary shoot.

Wow, my accountant is going to be shocked that we've spent all these years as part of a delusional side show. Man am I glad I read your post.

I suspect it might be a bit more than £78 though !

Not necessarily it depends on the quality of the monitor and how well the calibration works. It could be still good enough for most things. The previous was just a guess.

sure. it's a made up word. when in Rome, no? regardless of the terminology and what causes motion(put your favorite descriptive word here..... blur, judder, etc...) it doesnt change the fact that truly world class Dp's are discussing "it" in a thread with cadence in the title if you have not visited the link in prior posts. regarding my own fiddling, which is already admittedly unscientific in every last way, the F35 was always chosen. why? I attributed it to the ccd vs cmos but who knows? the love comes to an end quickly!

It is quite tempting to get the FS700 to play with. (pity it lacks TC)

Is it about raw or industry standart part? Compressing raw is just common practice - Red, Cineform, cDNG, Canon raw lite, it's rational to compress before debayer and leave it to post. It would be strange if Apple ignores this opportunity. Standarts... Apple introduced intermediate codec not only with obvious vendor lock-in but with platform lock-in as well. And it's fine, it's Apple in their right to follow thier business model. But somehow the industry abandoned the idea of open standard intermidiate codec, ignored other intermidiate codecs and here we now: "- We need masters in ProResLT! - What about DNxHR? - What's that?" Ok, "ffmpeg.exe -c:v prores_ks -profile:v 1 ..." and here we go but still some frustration left. And I'm afraid that industry will switch to this raw flavour of ProRes, and it won't have effective implementation outside OS X.

if apple pro goes away, hopefully then software developers will start supporting windows for professional and commercial applications. There is no reason for apple to be the standard for pros when it is more expensive and less powerful.

I remember people complaining about “mtv look” in the 90s and how it wasn’t cinema like... then run Lola run came to cinema and since that worked for the story, it became accepted. At one point, a well choreographed scene like the restaurant scene in goodfellas was considered the ultimate cinematic goal, now you can do it relatively easy with a small camera and a glidecam or a gimbal. So I think cinematic is when it works for the story/style. Whether that is movement or tripod shot, it depends on the meaning, not specific technique. Paranormal activity was very video looking and that was the point.

Micro management turned up to an 11!

I've spent too much money, blood, sweat and tears to just give away all my secrets. You'll have to go buy all the cameras yourself to find out.

going to 1.99 does not improve exposure without adding noise. The noise added is very similar to going an ISO level higher. Also, I found it changes the color tint somewhat. We have been experimenting with going lower now, as it *may* act as a sort of digital ND filter, however, as shown above, highlights are getting clipped somewhat. I will go ahead and get some testing done in the next day or so (maybe tonight) at different levels and show what is happening with highlights. did you adjust exposure to account for the lower brightness, as in decrease shutter, open aperture, or boost iso? Auto exposure does not work when adjusting the RGB scales, without compensation. So if you set auto exposure and turned down the rgb scales, it will be *under exposed*, just as if you boost the scales without compensation, the image will be *over exposed*.

I saw movies on dvd that were poorly encoded and for several reasons had all of those problems (blown highlights, horrible roll off, oversharpened, compressed skin tones), it detracted from them but still were “cinematic “ minority report had all of those problems for artistic reasons and still looked good... don’t believe me? Watch it again

Can't? Perhaps pick up the BMD Micro Cinema Camera for now on the cheap, which can do FHD 60fps Does your office have a C300mk1 or mk2? Am hoping for a URSA Micro Pro! ;-)

@jonpais Getting back to the original question you asked about DR, and to sort of add to the point of being "cinematic" in general... I think it really boils down to, "not looking like video." Think of all the BAD qualities of broadcast video and of early video cameras. Surely limited DR was part of that, but there were other technical (and artistic) things that scream "VIDEO." I think as the video format became the option for lower budget content creaters, there is just a sort of mental connection that low-budget-looking productions are video, and more polished productions are cinematic. One way to look at this is to ask yourself "What ISN'T cinematic???" To me, cinematic ISN'T: - blown highlights / horrible rolloff - oversharpened - compressed skin tones Add on to that artistic features that were amateurish.

OK, as requested by @Grimor I've just written an additional app for live tweaking of the parameters. Usual instructions, so put your Panasonic camera into wifi mode and attach your phone/tablet then press the Connect button in the app. Select a base profile with the Profile button and then tweak away on the sliders. Press the STILL button to, erm, take a still and the REC button will start a video recording. While the video is recording, your tweaks are still live to the camera and will be recorded. Download link is here https://mega.nz/#!djgk1aIL!fzloi_GiFqTNULCcYhCaG0oZHes6sQd-RzW_PsUlK-I Enjoy !

I wouldn't know since I must be in the other 5%. It's a huge problem for me.

You guys should just go out and buy an entry level Canon then. Why spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on cameras and native lenses? I mean, it’s all up to the operator, right? Obviously, I was being sarcastic there and obviously all of the points that talent and skill will make any camera look good are valid and probably the most important ingredient to a cinematic image. Now if only Hollywood Line Producers were reading this thread, then every film from this point on could be shot on a (insert consumer camera here)

I know nothing about NX raw, but for sure, that hypothetical person can bring along his Sony wireless, so you could mic the whole Northern Island! Believe it or not, this Tascam is the most used by top "old school" professionals here. Great machine though. @webrunner5 very beautiful, and I know from first hand, that Irish women are very strong will-ed, and not, ever boring! From your description, seems that you are very lucky had her in your life.

I will do this and try as hard as I possibly can to see no difference.. I'd take being 'motion cadence blind' and under 25 any day!!

Thanks Pewwinck! Here's the upcoming Daylight:

You assume that a good camera operator has control over their environment. Try doing any documentary work outside in direct sunlight and it won't matter how good an operator you are - if your camera doesn't have enough DR you're going to be clipping highlights or crushing blacks or both at the same time in the same shot.

their marketing is working!!!!!

oh my.. not this again.. There is another thread about that same film.