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this thread is great this is what the internet and message boards are all about i would like to think that we're all friends here, and that we should be able to have a spirited discussion about anything from cameras to global politics without devolving to personal attacks, and being mean spirited cheers, guys ??

I just wanted to share with you my latest music video shot on Ursa and Pocket 4k + Zeiss Cp3 + Black ProMist (how Can i embed a video here : ) ? ) https://vimeo.com/309293561

I'm referring to armed resistance. Comparatively speaking, a bunch people going for a walk is relatively meaningless.

I think you are being kind at 1800 dollars. That sounds like a blind date, Oh but she has a Really nice personality. Pass. ?

"Z CAM E2 is formally ProRes licensed!" -Kinson Next firmware update will unlock it automatically; in the meantime they posted a method to unlock ProRes manually. Unlike the internal H.265, which is 10 bit 4:2:0, internal ProRes on the E2 has 4:2:2 subsampling.

In a sense I think this is a mostly useless conversation. The value in the conversation is people learning about how other people shoot and the technical aspects of the situation, but I doubt that anything we say here will influence what we're actually given. In a sense, there are only two markets. There is the cinema market who want things like high bitrate codecs / prores capture / RAW, and consumers who want resolution and manageable file sizes. As more and more people are making video professionally and the tech advances there are a few manufacturers who concentrate on providing higher quality capture to non-cinema market segments. Mostly this is Panasonic with the GH line, BlackMagic with the Pocket 4k, and now Atomos as a bolt-on solution. Even if you want higher quality 4K, and for some reason you're not willing to get it via the Pocket 4K or external recording, 8K consumer codecs are actually a good way to get it. 8K is good because: Compressed 4K is lower quality than compressed 8K given the same bitrate (I have done tests and encoding the same material at the same bitrate and 1080 > 720 > SD) 4K displays are true 4K but 4K cameras are only true 1080 after debayering.. to get true 4K after debayering requires an 8K sensor Even if the bitrate for your 8K camera is low, for scenes where things don't move much (eg, people sitting and talking) the IQ will be quite good Even if we're talking 8K on a small sensor, if you use enough light then at base ISO your 8K image will be very nice. This might mean spending more on lighting, but it's not that great an investment and having more lighting is probably a useful thing to have anyway. If you're shooting in natural light then it'll be free. We use ND filters all the time because we have too much light! Downscaling 8K to 4K is a great noise-reduction technique and will be completely free, and won't have any of the strange effects of "smart" NR algorithms 8K will mean you need a more powerful computer, but if you're shooting 4K at higher bitrates and/or doing much grading in post you already need to use proxies to edit and grade anyway, so it might take a bit longer to render proxies and export but that's perhaps the only price you'll pay.

Don't mistake a hybrid for a dedicated cinema camera. The C200 is my main workhorse. I loooovvvveee the full sized XLRs, unlimited record time, handling, powerful rawlite codec. It's a wonderful thing to use. The 1DXMK2 is a tremendous stills camera. Trust me when I tell you the EOS R is no 1DXMK2... not even close. It's a weird kit... yes, but I suspect Nikon is going to deliver the hybrid we have all been waiting for, while Canon is going to continue to be "Canon". The Z6 represent a cheap way for me to test the Nikon waters. Honestly, so far I like what I see. Although my girl agrees with you. Oh, about that "beefy" codec... after bending the footage from both around in post, from what I can see, it is no more bendable than the Nikon codec... but it's about 3x the size... so there's that. I'm not saying it's bad, but it really takes awhile to transfer the footage compared to the Nikon, partly because the files are larger, and partly because the XQD is faster.

"My $1500 camera's screen isn't as good as my $6,000 camera's, or even my $3,400 camera's! What gives?"

You really can get them to look near enough to identical in post. That said, after spending more time with the pair I can confidently report that the Nikon trumps the Canon in image quality. AF is near enough as makes no difference... if you do not shoot N-Log. The build is better on the Nikon. Reliability is better... zero issues to date, while the Canon did experience three errors... granted easily recovered from. Where the Canon excels is in usability. It's very easy to shoot with. The flip screen is wonderful. The controls are also easy to manipulate from both in front and from behind the camera. Shooting to SD cards is great if you have tons of them laying around like I do. My overall impression is that when Nikon released the Z6 they aimed to knock one out of the park. It's a camera they intend to be in the lineup for some time. They are committed to improving it and adding features over time. Whereas, I get the sense that Canon released the EOS R kicking and screaming. It feels like a camera that is intended to have a very short lifespan; destined to be replaced by another model soon.

is 8k SHARP enough?

https://www.gizmochina.com/2018/12/11/honor-view-20-camera-samples-reveal-photography-prowess-of-48-megapixel-sony-imx586-sensor/ https://www.xda-developers.com/redmi-note-7-pro-48mp-sony-imx586/ For about 150 bucks... there's no more excuses to stop you become an artist for large ; -)

That a giant slap on Panasonic's face, JVC and Sharp can show what M43 can really capable off.. So much for M43 is dead according to that Tony guy

@Emanuel I might do some more scientific tests later, but here's an example. The source was a 10 bit 4K XT3 clip shot at 200 Mbps. I transcoded using ffmpeg. To make it more even, I lowered the CRF on the H.264 until it encoded at over twice the speed of the ProRes version. Hardware encoding was off. This means that the H.264 actually took less processing power to encode. We could actually increase the quality of the H.264 clips without adding any extra data simply by using a slower setting. ProRes Proxy: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1s8jpbgEvBQdduMul90kdDovQEU-xeJ0e H.264 (same bitrate): https://drive.google.com/open?id=1G8caHjIW--qLSmNNoLSkaBl2g2sPDU0j H.264 (<1/10 bitrate): https://drive.google.com/open?id=1fIg87fLa0V0KvCnGksRoHEGEWgROadKz Download and watch them at 100 zoom. I think it's clear that both H.264 files look better than ProRes Proxy in this scenario. I also notice that when watching in the Google Drive viewer, I can't see much difference (thanks, YouTube compression!), although it is night and day when downloaded and played in the app of your choice. Do you disagree? If you think the difference is an in-camera encoder being worse, just imagine if a C100 looked as bad as that ProRes Proxy shot. And remember that in this case H.264 encoded in under half the time. Naturally there are MANY problems with this test, but I didn't have much time today. Obviously H.264 benefits from it being a mostly static shot. (though to be fair, the ProRes won't get any BETTER with more motion, it's just that H.264 will get worse). It would be interesting to also test some scenes with a LOT of motion. A handheld walk through the woods perhaps, or even a video that cuts every single frame to a different scene. If you can source some 4k RAW clips or uncompressed RGB 444 HD clips, I'm happy to do more tests in conditions of your choosing.

First, the NIKON Z6 AND SONY A73 DO NOT SHARE THE SAME SENSOR. Nikon has their own engineering department and designed the sensors in the Z series to their own specs. They outsourced the manufacturing to Sony. As for Nikon only handing over the keys to their HDMI protocol... well that's selling Nikon short imo. Let's not forget that the entire new Z-mount lens series is specifically designed to work well for video. The lenses all operate near silent... and all have minimal focus breathing. Even the just announced 14-30mm F4 is designed with a flat front, so that it can be fitted with ND filters for video use. Nikon is building a video friendly system... not just a single video friendly body. I believe this is hugely important for many of us here in this community. As for the 1DXMK3, I know it will be amazing for stills, and the video will look great out of it. But it's hard for me to imagine Canon not pulling a Canon again... I hope I'm wrong.

I suppose that's the issue when it comes to disagreements about music when you have so many guns around. To paraphrase a British comedian on the issue.... You sent us Elvis Presley and we took him to our hearts, we sent you John Lennon and you shot him. Speaking of comedians, I think Chris Rock had a great idea to enable people to still own guns but reduce the number of "heat of the moment" murders by charging $5000 each for the bullets on the basis that you would really have to be mad at someone to waste $5000 on them

Funny, as for any other gimbal, reviews fall in totally opposite parks Even weight is not firm objective fact... So gimbals are really strange birds.

If you have time, wait to see all the players. At the moment, I work for a daily drama series, so I do not have much time to test. At first it seems a level above Crane 2, Crane 2 is very good already, but didn't fit the P4K exactly, and the Ronin seems like a very serious piece of equipment. Very well build and sturdy, but very heavy also. If I was shopping for my hybrid cameras I would have gone Weebill for sure. Ronin is just overkill.

Shooting 8K and delivering DVDs!!!

ah i see. i think i have seen a bit of 360 vr with 4,5 or 6 gopros strapped together and the results stitched together to make 360 vr i presume thats similar to what your doing ? edit : sorry to the fanboys for going off topic.....

I'd take better quality 4K, i.e better dynamic range, 10bit, HDR, compressed RAW codec over 8K any day. 5 years from now I'll take 8K standard. I think people are under estimating the burden of handling 8K video. With media costs where they are at today, 8K is just stupid in a consumer camera. There are a lot of factors that make a particular scene in a video compelling. Resolution is at the bottom. Yes, I'm aware a 480p video is worst than a 1080p, but there is the law of diminishing returns. From most important to least. 1. Audio 1.5 Composition ? 2. Lighting 3. Dynamic Range 4. Bit rate 5. Bit depth 6. Resolution (1080p and up)

In this case it will be the only one at the lightweight side then. There's another advantage yet: let the display free for viewing angle.

I might be wrong, but I think that the Tilta G2 & G2X can mount the motor on either side to accommodate the P4k

It depends on the camera and camera settings (and what look you like) but imo diffusion filters are a key missing ingredient toward a more "organic" look, if that's what you're after. They add an extra layer beyond even using vintage lenses, and imo it's worth combining the two if you want a "cinematic" look rather than a technical one. I think @Zach Goodwin2 proselytized extensively about them, and while I think he was using stronger grades perhaps than I settled on (don't really remember), I agree they have great value. That said, most on this forum seem inclined toward sharpening video and generally going for a sharper image than I prefer personally. So it is a matter of taste. I like the Alexa, which is quite soft, and I really like the look of 16mm and late-90s films shot by Richardson and Kaminski, which make heavy use of promist, classic soft, and nets. I think JFK is a beautiful movie. (And the Alexa is a weird camera. I'm convinced it has an optical diffusion filter in front of the OLPF similar to Tiffen digital diffusion but that the pipeline also applies a slight wide-radius unsharp mask. Which isn't crazy. Film's modulation transfer function curve can exceed 100% mtf and then it drops off to extinction more slowly than digital; so this approach could emulate that. And give the "3d" look people talk about while still making skin smooth. But this is conjecture.) The issue with black promist (also with classic softs and Hollywood black magic) is that you can see "speckles" in the bokeh, which may or may not be desirable, and at very deep stops sometimes the black dots that mitigate the promist's natural halation come into focus. (Also you need a matte box if you want to use a 4x4 filter, so screw on filters might make more sense depending on if you want to keep your rig small... but 1/4 BPM has a good look. Surprisingly strong, though.) I find these tests interesting: Particularly the latter. It's amazing how close the C300 with 1/4 to 1/2 digital diffusion looks to the Alexa. Imo it's a big improvement, however subtle.

I'm not omitting anything. It's a comparison of the video specs. I thought it was pretty obvious. Feel free to make your own chart.

Notice that the Nikon rep also states @ 1:27, that firmware support for CF Express is going to boost the video quality for video shooter. This would seem to lend credibility to what Jeremy of Atomos said during his interview with Newsshooter, when he said the Z6 and Z7 can record raw internally.

Yeah I mean 4k 60p, raw, and prores are definitely not things needed or really useful for taping the kids.

If it can do 6k that is pretty significant. Still no 4k 60p tho. The pocket does that at $1300

Yeah, this is honestly one of my problems with Micro 4/3... it’s neither here nor there if you need/want to use vintage or fast lenses. Sigma makes a 20mm 1.8 (the older one) that isn’t too expensive and that will get you around 30mm with the Fuji crop or the Micro 4/3 with speedbooster. If you look for the Nikon version you’ll also have an aperture ring. Tokina (also as Vivitar) made a 17mm f/3.5 that sells for between $100-$150. It is a great vintage lens with loads of character. That would get you the 24mm on the Fuji and around that speedboosted on Micro 4/3. Canon FD has a 17mm f/4 that is really good as well. Hope that helps @thephoenix

- and Alex Delfont's incredibly good Siam Rehab (HLG and Cine-D with Linear 33x): (be sure to watch in anything but Firefox, ideally Chrome with the dev fix)

Jeremy from Atomos stated that the resolution in the video was 4k or higher. I'm thinking it can shoot 6k and perhaps some anamorphic options will be available. Nikon is taking off the gloves.

Now even cheap $150 Smartphone will have 48MP 1/2" Sensor camera.. aka Redmi Note 7 I guess it good that you can choose between extreme resolution mode (good for day time/studio) or binning for better low light, gives you much flexibility depend on situation.

no no no, the government is currently tyrannical, this isnt a what if – its already happened. the US spends TRILLIONS of dollars on black budget defense projects every year – projects that are completely secret and unaccounted for. no one has a right to know about them outside of their compartmentalization trillions of dollars. and of course we fight endless foreign wars against the will of the people – thats become so normal that no one even brings it up. i could go on, but all this is wildly unacceptable, and everyone knows it. as of now, our best days are certainly behind us

How many times will companies have to split the atom before people are satisfied?

Sincerely, people should chill out a bit. We are getting a Full Frame raw 4k camera, with very very very very good low light, dynamic range, auto focus, IBis, viewfinder etc for 2700 USD. Less if you buy the complete filmmaker kit. There is nothing remotely close to that and people are still complaining. What is small enough for people these days. The Z6 Ninja V combo is smaller than my d7100 Dslr and a Flash. When you see the amount of active cooling something like the Pocket 4k needs for a sensor that is 1/4 of the Z6 people have to be a bit realistic. Another thing to consider is a user of a Ninja Flame, having an external recorder like this brings so much functionality for focusing, previewing and exposure tools that go so much beyond just a recorder.

Personally I think the P4K and a vintage lens is a winning combo.

I’ve been posting my work in the “share your footage” thread. You can find some in there and for a fact you did comment on my photography with the Pocket when I posted a website for my work a couple of months ago. Anyway, I’m not talking about A look, as in ONE look. The beauty of higher bitrate, better codec/raw camera is that you can get unlimited looks. I assure you 99% of the “OG” look you’re talking about is hiding beneath multiple layers of color grading, added noise and compression. Just for fun, I’m going to shoot with both my OG and P4K this weekend and then match the footage and post it here to see if you can tell what’s what. Sounds good?

Why so angry about camera you don't own and don't intend to own ?

Shooting ratios are highly personal and I think related to the personality of the director as well as the other factors. When my sister was in film school I helped on a number of sets and some directors loved horror and paid more attention to the fake blood than they did to the actors delivering dialog - I even saw a set where the actors messed up a take by saying their lines kind of wrong and wanted to go again but the director over-ruled them! When my sister directed we often went to take 20, and there was one scene where a guy was delivering a 20s monologue and although we got a usable take around take 4, it was something like take 17 when he delivered the performance that ended up taking pride of place on his showreel. My sister was interested in authentic and powerful drama through the quality of acting, and IIRC she'd rehearsed the script with the actors beforehand and changed awkward lines and optimised it before production, so although I think she was physically capable of making a film with 3:1 ratio, there was no way it was ever going to happen. @Dan Wake if you're set on making a feature and don't want to make short films beforehand, then consider making a single scene from the film as a trial run. That way you can trial the cast, crew, all the tech, and the entire workflow before you're betting the whole budget on it. If all goes well then you can take the opportunity to optimise your setup and processes etc and can use the footage in the final film. If it doesn't go well then you can make the required changes before going into production again. It does mean that you have to plan two productions instead of one, but in all likelihood the lessons from the first shoot will help you so much when you're doing the second that they will more than pay for themselves. Also, if by making the short you discover that your budget for the feature was inadequate then you can use the short to raise funding for the feature as you'll have shown you are capable of completing something and the investors will be able to have a taste of what they'll get at the end, which is more than most films are able to show potential investors.

Yeah I'm gonna chalk this up as some serious rose-tinted glasses towards those old BMD:s. I'm not saying they're bad but I know I won't touch one with a ten foot pole today - and I used a BMCC almost exclusively for two years. Anything BMCC did the new BMD:s can do - and a lot more. In fact the original color science on the BMCC was kind of a pain in the ass in hindsight. Also consider the fact that you're comparing a camera that's been out for what, five years, with thousands of hours of footage available online, to a brand-new one people are slowly adopting and coming to terms with. Anyways, I'm having fun with my P4K and have already used it on ten or so commercial shoots. On gimbal, as a B-cam for stealing quick shots, and even as a broadcast cam on a christmas cooking show live stream - was able to match it perfectly to the URSA with my own custom LUT and it ran flawlessly through the show.

I do not see red or arri implementing good autofocus. So not sure why blackmagic should. Its a cinema camera, and ibis or autofocus are not on my havetoo shortlist. The pocket 4k is on place 1 for sure on my list.

Looking back I owe everyone a big thank-you for using the forum and taking an interest in the blog, it is amazing what it has turned into with so little effort on my part I think this place must be the only website on the entire internet without adverts. Long may it continue like that. Got a GX9 arriving tomorrow... about time I did a review of something cheap with the big shift to high-end stuff. Let me know what you'd like to see in the review of it.

“Without” adverts even! My contribution is next to zero but thank you for your generous words. Raise a glass to EOSHD! Tim

Jeremy Young is the CEO and founder of Atomos... And that is where the buck stops my friend. He didn’t say it “could” do 12 bit... he said it “does”. Oh snap... you didn’t buy a P4k did you?