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Little Teaser to my entry. Still editing. Learned a lot about my old camera and about camera in general. Lineskipping can be a great thing sometimes.

Canon 70-200 2.8 IS on URSA Mini Pro (Prores 2K 4:4:4). Still from an upcoming short.

Anyway, here’s yet another shot from my film...

I love using good primes AS zooms! Just got a tiny Sony Nex-3N for less than $120 Australian posted (well under $100 US) and it has a bit of a point and shoot camera about it with a zoom toggle switch around the shutter button just like a P&S and it works great with good primes for Clear Zoom (I have not tried it for regular digital zoom and doubt I will beyond 2x)......a pity it does not work for RAW or video but only Jpeg stills (it is a few years old now). I wish Sony made something like that now and it worked for video. This is from the weekend (International blues music day) using the Sony Zeiss 55 1.8 and quite a bit of clear zoom.

Hallo friends, here is my contribution. I hope you like my final film. Looking forward to the great pleasure of exchanging experiences and technical odditities and tricks once Andrew gives the signal for releasing info next week. Thank you for your beautiful films, discussion and the awesome spirit. Thanks Andrew and everyone for inspiring us to film something personal. Here is my labour of love, shot last week and edited over night until just now cheers! Thank you very much!

aaa123jc: "hopefully I won't lose my new camera" -- don't worry your camera's quite safe, I've just uploaded my entry:

That wasn't me unfortunately

I bought the G6 + 14-140mm kit (in the UK) some years ago - that lens was the F3.5-F5.6 Mk1 version i.e. the H-FS14140 As far as I'm aware, the main difference with the latest H-FSA14140 version is that it's dust/splash resistant, whereas the earlier versions are not. Both the H-FS and the H-FSA versions are dual-IS/dual-IS2 compatible (see the compatibility list here - https://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/global/cs/dsc/connect/dual_is.html ), so if you're not bothered about the dust/splash resistance, the H-FS version seems to be basically the same lens (and they turn up on the used market frequently). As webrunner5 says, it's a really useful 'do anything' travel lens.

I am tired from all these Japanese camera crap company that give us 2010 technology at high price over and over again. >>> We have so many options now for video, GH5, Fuji, Olympus, Black Magic, Sony, Nikon, etc. Plus drones and cheap gimbals. The situation is radically different than it was just 5 years ago. If we can't produce great video with all that, Japanese companies are not to blame. DJI has been crazy innovating for years, they make the best drone with incredible cameras, the best gimbals, best action cam, .., When they enter the market with a new product it’s always the best. >>> They did push the envelop for sure but some product were poorly supported and/or abandoned by this company. For instance the X5 and X5R. The Inspire 2 has its share of issues and the X7 haven't been pushed since the initial launch. Their ground gimbal are buggy as hell and the Osmo Raw was a joke in terms of usability and workflow. There is a lack of consistency with DJI. They changed their LOG curve many times and the forced updates tend to bring many problems. Finally, have you ever tried to get serious assistance from DJI customer service? Hint: they are not very helpful even when you spend big bucks with them. They have given us 4K60 and 10 bits in 1inch sensor for years in super tiny cameras when Sony is not capable of doing so in a much larger RX100 in 2019. Ridiculous. >>> The first 4k60 was on the Phantom 4 Pro and the image quality was quite bad thanks to line skipping. Also, drones offer the advantage of natural air flow for cooling, either from the propellers or the motion of the drone. The architecture is very different than a regular camera, most of the time the sensor and the processing units are not stacked against each other in a small body. The design and heat dissipation parameters are completely different. This camera could be a game changer with modern touch screen controls and ergonomics associated with clean aluminium body with a last gen Sony sensor and massive specs like RAW, 10 bits, 4K60P and so on. >>> Why not, I wouldn't mind to see more disruption in this market. I own several DJI products and I would be open for more competition.

It’s not about embarrassment, it’s about legally being allowed to shoot at the places I’m shooting at. You need permits and insurance to shoot a film. In a lot of places, you can’t shoot a film in your own house without a permit. Now I would assume that 7 out of 10 times, nobody would care, but when I need to get a shot on a crowded boardwalk, without a bicycle cop giving me grief, I need to be as fast and as inconspicuous as possible. Hell, when I have my Rode Micro and deadcat attached to my camera, I get more looks and atttention than you can imagine... Getting this shot handheld, outside of a motel room, ended in a 5 minute conversation from someone who thought I may be a Peeping Tom... Also, you mentioned earlier about never needing to shoot with an f/1.2 or 1.4 lens... well when you shoot in public, if you get a bystander on video, you would need a release form from them granting me permission to use their image in your film. With a fast lens, they’re so blurred, it doesn’t even matter.

This is the most exciting rumor from 2019. It seems as I was hoping that DJI will release a mirrorless camera. I am tired from all these Japanese camera crap company that give us 2010 technology at high price over and over again. DJI has been crazy innovating for years, they make the best drone with incredible cameras, the best gimbals, best action cam, .., When they enter the market with a new product it’s always the best. They have given us 4K60 and 10 bits in 1inch sensor for years in super tiny cameras when Sony is not capable of doing so in a much larger RX100 in 2019. Ridiculous. This camera could be a game changer with modern touch screen controls and ergonomics associated with clean aluminium body with a last gen Sony sensor and massive specs like RAW, 10 bits, 4K60P and so on. I wish DJI success and to shame all that Japanese crap on the market. Camera market has been shitting on us for years with no innovation at premium prices. Only small companies like Black Magic and few others innovate. Or could it be a rebadged X1D at a premium price lol? Hopefully not. Let’s see. https://photorumors.com/2019/08/02/rumors-dji-coming-with-a-mirrorless-camera-that-looks-like-the-hasselblad-x1d/#more-112221 FYI compared to the X1D there is a joystick, tilt screen and different speaker and button layout. Otherwise super similar. Also MF would be surprising as FF is much more popular and cheaper.

The kit with a 32gb XQD and the FTZ is $600 more. A 64gb XQD is $130 and FTZ's are selling for less than $200 from people breaking up kits. I'm only looking B&H and used prices on Fred Miranda, not sure what anyone else is offering. There are other benefits to buying new if you want the full warranty and such, so I'm not ignoring that. Either way, what you get with the Z6 kits is a killer deal. Add $1000 for a Ninja V and a SSD and you have one hell of a photo/video combo that will be more of a use when the raw update is live. Chris

Very nice! You can count on my vote from this teaser (I take it you can't vote for your own - he he)!

The lack of innovation is debatable. In the past 5 years only we had: - Generalization of IBIS on many FF camera - 10 bits video files or even beyond that - Amazing and affordable lens selection from Sigma and other third part manufacturers (samyang, tamron, etc.) - Generalization of 4k and now 4k60 - Standardization of video assist features - Cheap, effective, and easy to use 3 axis gimbals. I built my first gimbal for drone in the early 2010s and just settings the PIDs of the controller was an immense time consuming pain. - Cheap drones everywhere thanks to DJI, Parrot and other brands like Autel, etc. So, yes I'm a bit amused about this level of whining and hysteria. Yes, we should have a lot of stuff in life, I would love to get a "Full Frame camera with full modern touch screen interface, DPAF with AI, Raw video and 4K60P 10 bit no crop, IBIS" but it won't happen ever. Each companies has strengths and weaknesses, technologies protected by patents and we will never get the silver bullet camera with the best of everything. Even Panasonic had hard time to come up with 4k60 in full frame. The phone and the photo industry are two different animals, sales are on the low millions versus billions for smartphone in volume. Not even talking about the margin. It's not hard to understand that the level of investment won't be the same. But Sony UI is just plain stupidity, it just happens everywhere. People like me denounced Canon conservatism many times in the past, just google my name and Canon, you'll find my articles, I even quoted Andrew there. But unlike a few years ago, Canon is no longer the only option so I just moved on, I got the right tool for my needs and went out shooting. Incidentally, I spent much less time on this forum crying about motion cadence, organic feel and other mundane stuff which are a bit irrelevant at this point. That said, I wish you the best of luck with your endeavor and your next video projects. Cheers.

This is what you get when you treat your customers like crap, severely cripple your cameras, and don't give the buyer good value for $$$. They've been living on their laurels for some time now, and have failed to see the hand writing on the wall. They can't say the weren't warned. STOP RIPPING YOUR CUSTOMERS OFF, OVER CHARGING THEM, AND THEN STABBING THEM IN THE BACK! BAD COMPANY

I have had them all. The best one I ever had was the Kit Lens one with the Matte finish that was sold with the G7. I would think that is the last version. You have to think why even bother revising it if it doesn't improve from the early ones. I really don't think Panasonic made a lens just to cheapen it and diminish quality. That is not their style. Tech improves. For the money it is a true bargain for what it is capable of doing, all of them. It is a must have lens if you are traveling. If you are in doubt focal length wise stick it on and do it.

I don’t even mind the 1” sensor and I’d be happy with 4K compressed codec and Canon 2K RawLite.

An XC10 with aps-c, 1.8 to 2.8 and uncrippled AF in 4k would be my dream camera.

Yes, sorry, with my first response I was actually referring to the Mark I and Mark II of the Second (f3.5-5.6) version. Not confusing at all

Not that I'm aware of. Amazon do have a used like new version of the Mark II from their own Warehouse deals for £504.78. With their returns policy, I'd be tempted to get that one ? https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B07QH4WYBV/

There is a slower one (f4-5.8) which is about half the price used as the new one. https://www.lcegroup.co.uk/Used/Panasonic-14-140mm-F4-5.8-Mega-O.I.S-G-Vario_249079.html

They are more likely to do it the other way round just to spite everyone !

If you are looking for a genuine UK product then the safest way is to check the product codes on Panasonic's own UK direct website (though not necessarily buy from there obviously ) From their site the H-FS14140E9K is the original one. https://panasonicdirect.store.panasonic.co.uk/p-5508-panasonic-h-fs14140e9k-h-fs14140e9k-panasonic-lumix-g-vario-14-140mm-interchangeable-lens-black.aspx?psn=15 And the H-FSA14140E is the MarkII version https://panasonicdirect.store.panasonic.co.uk/p-5689-panasonic-h-fsa14140e-h-fsa14140e-panasonic-lumix-g-vario-14-140mm-interchangeable-lens.aspx?psn=12

Do you have a Gfilm profile for the Z? I still use that from time to time. Chris

I am torn between the minimalist attraction of having one camera, one lens, one mic and getting to know it inside and out and just shooting it to death, and the alternative which is to have more flexibility and the complexity that comes with it. For me the difference is if you are in control of the situation or not. If you are then you pick the lens you want and say "stand here" and it all happens, but the less control you have the more flexibility you need in your kit. Otherwise wildlife photographers would just use their favourite 50mm lens and tell the birds / leopards / elephants where to sit, where to land, etc That's very interesting. I read a bunch of stuff in there and came up with the idea there were the accurate / neutral lenses that were called "modern" because lenses have gradually been getting more neutral over time, and those that were inaccurate / coloured / flavoured / etc but that the imperfections were aesthetically pleasing and were called "vintage" because older lenses were more likely to be like that. To me it seemed to be kind of useful shorthand and seemed to be relatively consistent, but maybe I missed some of the nuances of how the phrases were used. They spoke about having two sets, one modern and one vintage, but because the modern ones are expensive (CP.2, Zeiss, etc) either they normally owned the vintage ones for personal projects or low budget doc work and hired the modern ones when the project required it, or they were the ones owning and hiring out the modern ones, and were contemplating if there was enough of a market to buy a vintage set for a different aesthetic and maybe justify the price by also hiring it out. Regardless, I've bought lenses all over the spectrum and just deal with it in post lol In all the tests I did I found that all lenses got to be quite sharp when stopped down a couple of stops, and interestingly the affordable lenses that were sharp wide open were the same as their competitors but just didn't open that far. For example an f1.4 lens would sharpen up by f2.8, and similar lenses that were sharp wide open only opened to f2.8, so unless you spent squillions of dollars you just buy the f1.4 one and use it at f2.8 and keep the extra two stops in case of emergency Thanks - that is truly spectacular! It will spoil me for life of course, but you know, no pain no gain. What is especially good about it is that it compares mythically expensive lenses with a common lens that links it to many other lesser lens tests, so you can compare a cine lens to a budget one by seeing how each compares to the Rokinon. Very useful! And yeah, like @mercer was implying - screw carrying around one of those behemoths!!!

I think camera's may be coming to a cross roads, they won't be tools anymore, there won't be a noticeable difference in the output of a cheaper DSLR and a high end phone in most situations and for most people's uses. This has happened in lots of industries; computers are one, my 5 year old MacBook Pro still does everything that 90% of computer users need it for but Apple still sell plenty of new ones, cars are another because the current Golf R is far quicker than a Porsche from 10 years ago and the difference isn't that great to even a modern Porsche. There will still be a market for people buying cameras like the Leica M, the Fuji's and esoteric products like the ALPA because using them is a different, and better for some, experience to using a phone or a conventional wheels and screens DSLR. Much like the Porsche and Golf example above. The issue for me will be whether they end up dead industries because of a lack of return on investment and reliability, can companies fund a new camera that we can afford when they know they will only sell a few 10's of thousands of them ? Companies still make film, but how many truly new emulsions have come out since the peak of film ? Companies still make turntables and hifi speakers but there's very little real innovation, because they are cottage industries. Perhaps a lack of reliability will be their saving grace, will my GH3 last me as long as my Hasselblad ? I'm yet to actually have a digital camera fail me when I haven't done something egregious to it so perhaps ?

I'm sure webrunner is a good guy.

It's so smooth! I wonder what did you use to stabilize it. Don't tell, let me analyze it. ( :

Hey, I like webrunner... he’s a solid guy. We just had a disagreement. I don’t like to criticize anyone on a public forum... especially one involving artistic endeavors. There are way too many places to get knocked down in this world and one where people share their work shouldn’t be one of them. With that being said, I shoot with a Canon 5D Mark iii and Magic Lantern Raw. I’m a hobbyist, narrative filmmaker that may complete my first film by the time I retire from my real job... lol. Let us know how those cinema lenses work out with your Z6.

Actually, I posted it as a peace offering because I thought you would find it funny. Unlike you, I have been nothing but respectful to you during this exchange. Whereas you became belligerent and offensive because I stated how and why zoom lenses are useful for run and gun filmmaking. So, my opinion about zoom lenses led you to attack me on a personal level where you called me meek, a loser and inferred I am not a man. So after you personally criticized and attacked me, I posted a joke frame to lighten the mood and stick it to you a little. If you can’t take it, don’t dish it. As a writer/aspiring filmmaker, I’ve learned to have a thick skin a long time ago and some person on a stupid forum isn’t going to get under it enough for me to weep and cry.

Wow nice effort.

New picture taken on Canon T2i with OM 28-70 F/2.8

Exactly. You don't have to draw attention to yourself to get it done and, in some places, you won't get it done if you draw attention to yourself. For my movie, we shot a conversation in a Starbucks, a nervous breakdown in a grocery store and a stabbing in a barber shop parking lot. All done with no one the wiser. And that's nothing compared to Escape From Tomorrow that was shot in secret at Disneyland.

I am not a tech geek and I will probably commit many errors in this rough explanation, but basically Photoshop, Premiere (don't know about other programmes like DaVinci) in order to output 10 bit to a 10 bit monitor use the OpenCL interface and not the DirectX that many other softwares use. Common GPUs like the GTX or RTX series cannot work with the Adobe package in OpenCL and would only output in 8 bit. So even if you selected 10 bit in the software settings, on the monitor the image would still be 8 bit. To have a real 10 bit image you had to get a Quadro or FirePro graphic card, which more professional and not cheap. I will try to get more info on this, but if this works out as advertised, it will mean you can have 10 bit images with many GPUs commonly found in many computers. Or if you are building up your computer like I am doing now, it means that keeping the same level of performance, compared to a Quadro, you can get a cheaper card at half the cost. Or if you want to invest the same amount of money you can have a GPU with about double the Vram compared to a Quadro one of the same price.

I appreciate the sentiment behind your comment but reality is reality and more often than not the straightest line between points A and B is the best option. Otherwise, everybody would use manual cinema lenses instead of AF or other modern conveniences. I have a friend that owns two native lenses to shoot his films... a prime and a zoom. One day I brought an adapter and a good manual lens along with me for him to try on his camera and although he preferred the image from the vintage prime, he never has asked me to borrow the lens. And although he prefers the image from his native prime, 99% of his shots are taken with the native zoom. And I don’t blame him one bit. Native lenses are way more convenient and native zooms, especially good modern ones, are more than good enough to tell a great story. Hell, if I was a smarter man, I’d probably sell off all of my lenses and buy a Canon 24-70mm 2.8 lens and make my films with just that lens until I have the resources to truly utilize a set of prime lenses. In fact, the more I test my lenses and realize what matters with this hobby of mine, I can truly see myself doing something like that. I’d keep a small set of Nikkor primes and pick up the Canon 24-70mm 2.8. For the films that are more run and gun, I’ll use the zoom and for the projects where I have a little more time and freedom, I’ll use the Nikkors. But whoever said I was smart... hahaha.

You have to grow some balls and do it like it is suppose to be done. Anyone can half ass it. A crew using bounce lights, Audio and believe me you can get by doing it. Everyone gets out of your way and lets you do it. They will be fascinated by you and your crew. Trust me. People that make stuff happen make stuff happen. They lead. Best advice I can ever give you. Look like you know what you are doing and go forward. That is how you get though life. Lead, don't follow. Go for the ring. Don't suck hind tit. You will always be lacking if you slack off and do the least. But treat everyone equal, everyone is not a leader, they are looking for one. You will reap the rewards even in your video stuff. I am not saying step over people. Just learn your craft, use the best stuff there is you can afford and go for it. You can't never be best at every aspect of Video, never happen. If all you can do, and do that great is one aspect of video you are way ahead of the average person. Have others help you. That is why Hollywood exists. Combined skills in one area with one goal.

In the great equaliser of the granite worktop and colourful booze bottles then it would likely be Samyang again This 50mm lens shootout is about as comprehensive as it gets and includes the Cooke Panchro. http://www.mikkotimonen.com/50mm-shootout

That would be a great website wouldn't it? Put in a film you like and it tells you what lenses were used and the nearest suspected stills equivalent.

And Nikon is just a cool brand. I never even looked at Nikon because I needed video. That changed when I got better video footage then the FS7 (and DP I hired) on a multi day video shoot. The Nikon has better color then the FS7. The Z6 with adapted Nikon lenses gives you more lens selections then you will ever need. And for professional video rent or buy cine lens.

I think there is an interesting aspect involved in those discussions there, particularly with something like the original Contax Zeiss Survival Guide thread, that originates from when the RED ONE was released. The camera was obviously attracting a lot of people that were "buying up" to it from a very indie background that up until that point were getting their cinema look from adapted camcorders with spinning ground glass 35mm adapters. I know because I was one of them To say there was some sticker shock at suddenly having to look at buying PL lenses would be something of an understatement so obviously everyone was looking to do what they had done before and use stills lenses on it. Because of that, it was probably the first time that there was a platform, in terms of both camera and forum, for meaningful comparisons between stills and cine lenses. To me, at least, there is an emotional element to some of the language used there around lenses that is related to and biased from whichever side of the line people were coming to that camera from and its just become the lingua franca for lens discussions on there and beyond since. So I don't necessarily think they are more sensitive to it just that they have been using the language for longer.

Thanks for the link, I’ll check that out. I love anything from the 50s through mid 80s. The image doesn’t feel like real life but it’s still detailed and vibrant and breathes. Another aspect of still lenses that I find very interesting is that a lot of lens manufacturers used the same glass and coatings on their still lenses that were used with the cinema lenses. For instance, for Taxi Driver, Scorsese used Zeiss Super Speeds to shoot that film. The triangular bokeh in the night scenes where Deniro drove his taxi cab is a pretty famous visual. Well, Rollei Zeiss lenses share the same glass, with the same coatings, and the 35mm and 85mm 1.4 lenses even share the triangular iris as the super speeds. With modern Zeiss lenses the ZF Zeiss Classics share the same glass and coatings as the much more expensive Zeiss CP.2 lenses. Canon K-35 cinema lenses, which Canon won a technical achievement Oscar for, are believed to be cinema versions of their FD aspherical lenses. I think it’s pretty damn cool that some of the lenses that the Gods that came before us used are attainable to us mere mortals in their still versions on the used market. There’s a historical pedigree we get to be a part of... a visual appreciation to the Masters that came before us.

Yeah, it’s pretty crazy how many great vintage lenses there are out there that are older than I am and holding up a lot better. My Canon FD 50mm 1.2 L is a gorgeous lens and has been touted as the most advanced manual focus 50mm lens ever made but if you pit that lens against a modem L lens, the modern lens has a distinct and obvious advantage... mostly with sharpness. What blows my mind is when I watch older movies and see how sharp and organic 50 year old cinema lenses are. I assume the upres process helps with that a little though. As much as a phone can be an equalizer, I think higher resolutions can be as well. With all of that being said, I think @webrunner5 makes a valid point about owning too many lenses. Now I am just a hobbyist narrative filmmaker that enjoys testing out different lenses. But if you look at some of the really good cinematographers that show their work online, they often only own a few lenses. I am a big fan of Matteo Bertoli’s work and I believe he mostly uses two lenses... a Takumar 50mm 1.4 and a Canon FD 24mm 2.8. I’m sure he’s used great lenses but for a lot of his personal work, he posts online, those two lenses are very prevalent. So again, for me, my goal is to whittle down my collection so I have a couple lenses in my 3 favorite focal lengths. My end goal is 10 lenses or less, but hopefully closer to 5.

Insane Z6/7 refurb deals at B&H... Z6 + 24-70/4, $1799 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1488631-REG/nikon_1598b_z_6_fx_camera_body.html Z6 Body only, $1349 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1488630-REG/nikon_1595b_z_6_fx_format_mirrorless.html Z7 Body only, $2299 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1488628-REG/nikon_1591b_z_7_fx_format_mirrorless.html Z7 + 24-70/4, $2699 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1488629-REG/nikon_1594b_z_7_fx_camera_body.html The first gen cams from Canon, Nikon and Panasonic are flatlining, prices are being pushed down fast. That Z6/lens combo is so tempting.... Chris

I am really excited! Can't wait to see what kind of cheap camera you guys can get under $200. The reveal will be epic. And hopefully I won't lose my new camera ?.

Not a Sony.... and I think that makes the second question redundant

Canon has Peter McKinnon, but maybe they need the combined bullshitting power of Peter AND gelaxstudio too. GELAX... is that a lubricant or a condom brand?

No one that has actually seen S1 footage would call it "unbelievably bad." What a weird thing to say, even if trolling.

I think you are living in a dream world thinking the young are going to embrace Leica, MF cameras. Smartphones are what they grew up with. It fits their needs. Social media, YouTube is what they know. They don't need Cine cameras. They have what they need in their purse or pocket. They will get better and better, and Cine cameras will be less and less desirable. A Smartphone IS the ultimate Hybrid. For the masses it already has been. We are already Dinosaurs on here. Stick a fork in us, we are done.

Well, even if I do have to reset some settings every now and then, I’m really enjoying shooting with my eos-m and 28mm f2.8 Canon FD lens...

One of five films created for Morrison’s in the UK (supermarket chain). Filmed on two GX80’s. Discreet, stabilised and good enough for this job.