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They can try and sue us about the glue. It'll never stick.

Should have got this one. Samsung really are determined to get 8K into people's homes one way or another. And yes, that is a real product

Newer cameras have 24p included... Canon really sorta is the only exception. If there was such a weird thing as 24p codec licensing, which is an utter B$ of an assumption, then why-o-why is Panasonic including it? Why does Sony still fit 24p in all their cameras? Why does stills heritage Fujifilm care about 24p video? Nikon? Heck, even bloody Pentax... and nobody is even using those to shoot video. Yet... it's a Canon strategy that we've seen time and time again. Seemingly purposely crippling cameras, withholding certain features. Playing the infamous segmentation game. You want X? Buy Z! Heavy crops, 24p, limited recording times, DPAF C-AF during 4K, inclusion of a mic-input/headphone port, display type (front-facing), etc... all to differentiate cameras, pushing you to buy certain cameras if you want certain features. It's sorta the same we see Pansonic do diversifying their flagship line-up not to just be the one GH-camera. Now there's the G9 if you want the best in stills, with that top LCD, huge EVF, 6.5-stops of stabiization, USB-C charging and schtuff. The GH5S if you want the absolute best in image quality... dual native ISO benefit. GH5 if you think the GH5S sounds exciting, but rather have IBIS going on and pay less. I mean... it's working, I have 2 out of the 3. Pricing of the GH5S pushed me into getting the BMPCC4K instead. But yeah, definitely manufacturers are giving certain cameras certain features to set it apart, which I find disturbing. At least Panasonic/Sony still give you quite a bit more than the average consumer would ever need, but enthusiasts and pros would love to have. Canon? Not so much. They're trying to figure out what they can leave out of next camera releases instead of looking what to include. They don't have much going on for them anymore, they're just playing catch up. Others all are doing sensor stabilization cameras, have come a long way in color science, so that's not really a factor anymore, Sony's C-AF is in Canon's DualPixel AF league (rest perhaps not so much yet), ease of use? Well, maybe not Sony, but others are a delight and offer so much control and customization. Lenses? Give me a break. Nobody actually likes red ring lenses that much anymore, definitely not the pinnacle of the industry now. Like honestly, why even bother getting a Canon interchangeable lens camera these days? I know I wouldn't... then again I never saw the appeal throughout the years. The value proposition just isn't there. Seems to be a brand for sheeple chasing to be the next Casey Nicetatt, Matti Hapoopoo or Peter McCanon.

Hi, congrats to all the participants. The reveal is really entertaining. My story: Based on recent improvement with Magic Lantern I purchased an EOS M to do some experiment a month ago, then the EOSHD challenge appeared (but with the Magic Lantern restriction ?). The EOS M was $150, still $50 left for the lens. The easy choice was a Canon FD, Minolta Rokkor, or the mighty soviet Helios or any vintage lens under $50. But I wanted to try something "different" to stay on the challenge track. A round trip to my treasure chest (my wife has a different name for that box) and I found something quite interesting, an enlarger lens : Beseler-HD 50mm 2.8 - I remember paying something around $30 max. but after checking the invoice and I actually payed $9 + $8 shipping - Then ordered an adapter in Russia - M42x1 to Canon EOS-M for $25. After 2 weeks, I received a snail mail with some nice Russian stamps and the adapter inside the letter. Added a 17-31 helicoid for focusing infinity and voila an unusual bokeh. Cheers.

I reckon the 30p lovers should all go and tell Hollywood and Netflix to switch. I don't care if the camera is aimed at me or not, only Canon's marketing people do. The founding principals of the cinema look include 24p and it's as important as dynamic range, RAW, etc., 25p looks similar but 24p is the standard and you can't mix the two on one timeline. Canon know this which is why it's another Protect the Cinema EOS margins cripple. Which is a shame because the new sensor technology looks good, and has finally caught up to the readout speed of others. If you are calling yourself a filmmaker but prefer to shoot 30p over 24p you should be a bit embarrassed. 25p is another matter, that has the same cinematic feel to 24p. I shoot 25p quite a lot because I live in a PAL region. I am glad it has 25p. But I'm not happy with the 24p bullshit spreading on this forum and screen Hz judder-stutter-bullshit. Stop doing it. Tiresome to read.

Turn this: Into this! I entered two terrible quality cameras in the $200 camera challenge and somehow didn't come last, so here's what I learned. In case it's useful to someone Shooting: Low quality cameras have poor codecs and low bitrates, which typically have trouble with a lot of movement. Therefore I used a tripod for every shot instead of hand-holding. This also gives you more options for temporal NR in post too. Go for the 180 shutter by either using an ND or by simply filming in low light. How can you tell if it's 180 shutter? Wave your hand in front of it and see how streaky it is. or alternatively, if your camera is very low resolution and subjects aren't moving too much, then the sheer size of the pixels will completely obscure whatever shutter angle you have! Win!! In post: Edit in your desired output resolution, not the one you shot in.. dodgy 4K image? Output in 8K today! Think about converting to black and white. This gives you 4 times the effective resolution!! Camera only shoots 30p? Excellent - conform to 24p in post and get slow motion for free!! Most NLEs can slow audio slightly too, so if it works for the vibe of your project then go with it. Digital compression is awful and a give-away you're not shooting RAW or film, so is over-sharpening that you can't turn off. Therefore, blur the image in post. You might want to consider blurring only the edges of things, and you should experiment with blur size and blur strength too. I typically find a sharp diagonal line and blur until it looks like a straight line instead of a jaggy digital mess. Use noise reduction, both spatial and temporal. It will make the image blurry, but that's also what you want because of above, so go nuts. The image might look smooth, but we'll add grain later, so don't worry about it. My footage had a bunch of compression artefacts that flickered on and off on each alternate frame and was very distracting (and awful). De-flicker plugins can work wonders. Just play with the types and presets until it's gone. Colour will probably be awful, so either make it black and white (which also gets around the awful coloured fringing) or desaturate heavily. You can also do heavy chroma NR to get rid of colour flickering. Also feel free to use advanced colour controls such as Hue vs Hue to get rid of nasty colours, or use masks to selectively desaturate colours you don't like. Get rid of digital looking clipped highlights by controlling and artificial highlight rolloff via curves. Someone complimented me on the highlight rolloff, which was totally created in post. Use music, pick your shots well, and try and distract from IQ by using content, composition, lighting, and other 'tricks' ??? Can't afford a nice vintage lens or camera has a fixed lens? Add halation by masking only the brightest parts of the image, adding a big blur, then put over the top of the image at a low opacity. Add grain to finish it off. Film has grain and film is awesome, so therefore.... plus, YT kills grain and will put heavy bands on smooth areas so you really should add some. I recommend doing a grain test video with different strengths so you can see what YT does it various amounts of it. It takes more than you think to show up in YT, a LOT more. Here is the curve that gives that highlight rolloff and deep shadows.... Here's another before/after image. and here's my reveal post with the final and SOOC videos: Hopefully that's useful to someone! Feel free to ask questions and I still think I can make a P4K look like a BMMCC or BMPCCv1 so if you have both and can shoot something with both then let me know.....

Yes of course we all know the story with the M6 Mark II is that compared to earlier efforts such as the 60D or T2i, Canon finally had to drop 24p to save on the H.264 licensing fees which were really racking up a huge debt in their corporate bank account, and the other reason they had to drop 24p was that it takes just so much processing power to drop those 6 frames compared to 30p which is much easier, and the virtual garbage bin kept filling up with those frames and overflowing causing a memory leak and a security issue for people with smartphones connected, so 24p just had to go, and also the uncompressed 16bit 8K HDMI output could only run at 60hz for the screens on Atomos recorders so no 24p externally either, plus in Japanese the number 24 is associated with ghosts.

Hi All, and well done to everyone who entered - a lot of fun was had from my part. Reading through the other comments, in comparison, my choice of camera was quite unadventurous as I used my Canon EOS M that I bought for £135 at the start of the year. It came with a 35mm F1.6 APS-C Television TV Lens/CCTV Lens For 16mm C Mount Camera and C Mount adaptor and 3 batteries. I felt like I cheated because I also used two other lenses for a few shots - whereas everyone else seemed to use one lens. As you can see in the picture below, I also used a Helios 44-2 58 mm f/2 Lens M42 Mount and also a Canon EOS EF-M f2 Pancake Lens (both borrowed from work - I work in a Photography department at a Univeristy). I also used a Zeadio mini tripod and cheap variable ND filter. I shot the footage using the Prolost Flat picture profile. I think that's most of the info. Oh yeah, I did a bit of primary and secondary grading in Premiere but nothing that major. So there you go. I guess I get to keep my camera - he he! Thanks to the peeps who voted for me!

Just don’t buy their crap cameras if video specs are important to you. Moving on.

If anyone is curious, I just finished up a piece shot about 50 percent with the pocket. This was graded by a colorist. The other half is Super 8 and there's maybe 4/5 shots with the GH5. This might not make sense if you don't live in Seattle but maybe relatable. Anyway. Shot with the OG bmpcc. "An experiental piece about a population coming to terms with a rapidly changing city."

Yeah wow, great move, much smart. How dumb are Sony, Panasonic, Fujifilm & Nikon, eh?! WHAHAHA Oh, c'mon. Just stop the bullcrap excuses. 'The omiting thing is a tradition. It’s a habit.' Well, yup. In the sense that it's Canon being Canon. Canon be like: lol, we be crippling them cameras like there's no tomorrow... ... and they still fucking buy 'em! OMFG! xD The enablers are to blame here. I'd be gloating too... it's like taking candy from a baby and them not minding getting spit in the face.

Damn, that is nice... almost makes me want to get one. Almost.... Your screenshots in the lenses thread say otherwise. They also tell me you have perseverance, which might matter more than anything else in the end Skill is the most expensive thing to acquire - it costs time (which isn't something you can get more of) and effort (which is limited) and humility (which might be the most scarce element on earth...). If only it wasn't so!!

Come on Mattias, are we reading different posts or what because reading this thread I didn't get the impression that the lack of 24p is the end of the world. I did get the impression that it's silly that it's not there, that there's zero technical reasons why it's not there, that it's just Canon being " WE wANt TO PrOtect the CinemA linE " I, just like you, shoot in 25/50 because that's the EU standard, I don't think I've ever shot in 24 on my GH5. However if it didn't have that option, I'd be the first one to write "wtf panasonic why can you do 25fps but not literally one frame less?" Not because I actually need it, but because I feel like it's such a standard feature that it should be implemented.

you're mistaking hate with making fun of which is justified The lack of 24p is funny because it's literally one frame less than 25p which you can shoot. So what about 24p makes it impossible to write? Nothing. It's entirely doable. They've done it in the past. They can do it now. Why isn't it there then? Because they're stupid. And this is why we're making fun of Canon.

That works ? (it seems to need a couple of cycles of handshake and connect button pressing though). Once it's connected, the camera LCD will occasionally say it's not connected to the app, but it carries on working OK i.e. accepting commands from the app. Basically, on the G9 it looks like the 'mov' equivalents of the 'mp4' settings work, so you can have LPCM audio instead of AAC in the files. Also some high bitrate .mov versions of 1080p work e.g. 50 Mbps and 100 Mbps (but 72 Mbps locked up the camera - had to remove the battery...). Tried various 10bit, cinema 4k and anamorphic 4k settings - mostly they are ignored when you send them (or they select an AVCHD mode). In one case it did record a file (and Mediainfo said it was 10 bit 4:2:2 AVC1) but the video was just black. So conclusion so far is that the G9 won't do 10 bit, c4k or a4k.

Everybody stop, we have been wrong all along for 10 years since the 5D Mark II came out with that silly 24p firmware patch, why they bothered with that and didn't just stick to 30p I don't know. All that stutter and judder from the cinema frame rate, damn my computer screen for not being a flickering 24hz scan rate, it's all the fault of those damned LCD panels!! Yes I wondered why the Arri Alexa looks so shit on my LG OLED. Bloody 24fps strikes again. Tut tut tut. *Checks notes* Canon are completely right to remove 24p and it has *checks notes* nothing to do with protecting the higher-end cameras. Better warn all those C200 users shooting their silly mismatched 24p for Netflix. They should all be shooting at 60p to avoid judder, and recommending people turn their TVs to Motion Smoothing mode, especially for those fancy daytime soap operas we used to call "films" like Christopher Nolan's Dunkirk. Quick somebody tell Scorsese! Why won't he get the 30p 60p memo??? Doesn't he know his scan lines are juddering and stuttering? And damn that bloody Spielberg still living in 1984. An affliction you mean? Yes, the look of cinema is the scourge of filmmakers everywhere. They should really go to a doctor for that 24p disease. I don't know how much you guys in these PR offices get paid by companies like Canon but I am fascinated by the work and script writing you put in. Should do a documentary about it... Shot in 30p of course.

I guess it's time to restart the hyperbolic pretend it's a pro video camera only to rip on it machine again. But honestly, it's getting old. BTW, I just installed a new washing machine yesterday. It didn't even have 4K via HDMI.. it's like 1998 all over again.

That's genius!! You can, on this occasion keep a hold of your webcam I do love the fact you have fitted it to a rail mount, I say you build a shoulder rig for this! Extra points for rigging it up haha! Now I loved the image quality on this, for me it looked very filmic, granted its not terribly sharp but much sharper and better looking than I remember from EOS M footage. I guess that is down to a decently sharp lens which works wonders on the Canons. I was half thinking this was shot on a Sony of some kind but the skin tones and colours were just too good Had you said this was an EOS M from the start I wouldn't have believed you, there appears to be no aliasing and moire from what I can see, perhaps YouTube's compression is hiding some of that. Great job! Now for my reveal and I am really surprised to have won the vote for image quality! When I saw some of the entries I was sure I wasn't going to get anywhere near the top. Not that I was aiming to win, this after all was just a bit of fun! Now I will be honest, I nearly didn't enter. I saw the post on the blog and immediately took interest. I thought over it for a few days and done some research on what could be had for the £200 budget. Andrew- as a side note I did manage to find a large sensor, interchangeable lens 4K camera and nearly went down that route! At the time of Andrew announcing the competition it was peak wedding season for me (my full time job as a wedding and events filmmaker) and that had to take priority. When I checked back a few weeks later on the closing date for entries it was literally a week away! I took the plunge and bought something cheap in order to take part, paid for express shipping and bought a lens adapter via Amazon Prime. And here she is in all her glory! £69 body only from MPB photographic in the UK, and probably the ropiest one they had! It was pretty manky, didn't come with a body cap (omg that exposed sensor!! ?) and the SD card door doesn't close properly but I was determined to make this work. The lenses I used were two m42 vintage lenses I had lying around, first up a Pentacon 50mm f1.8 which I actually use in my professional work from time to time - its surprisingly good! For some longer shots I used a Carl Zeiss Jena 135mm f3.5 with the aperture blades stuck wide open - again surprisingly good considering the aperture doesn't function and it has been sitting in a bag without any caps on for years. The eagle eyed amongst you will notice in the above photo there is a Speedbooster attached. This is where I hold my hands up to a little bit of cheating! I bought a Gobe dumb adapter from Amazon as mentioned but knew that for some shots I had in mind the 100mm equivalent FOV I would have would be bit too tight. So for a handful of shots I did run with this - this potentially aided in producing slightly sharper results in some shots. I also used an SLR Magic Variable ND, again not the cheapest of filters! So feel free to disqualify me for this technical infringement! Before shooting my sequence I done a few test shots in the garden the reviewed the footage on the computer. I knew the AVCHD codec would be a potential struggle but didnt realise how bad it was until looking back on these test shots - the footage was already falling apart before my eyes! 17 Mbps is a long way off the solid looking 100+ Mbps i'm used to off my GH5! Not to mention how much moire I saw in the footage! Despite this, I found the 720p mode better with it's Motion JPEG codec so considered using this in my film. I shot with the "Nostalgic" setting with Contrast and Sharpness all the way down. For me this looked to have slightly better dynamic range and better roll off between tones than the "Smooth" setting, although the over all colour wasn't as nice. So, on one of the hottest days of the year I went into my home town and done some people watching. The little GH1 was a fair challenge to use as one might expect with how lucky we are with modern cameras these days. No focus peaking, no zebras, low resolution screen and viewfinder. Despite this, I relied heavily on the histogram to check my highlights, made sure not to film anything with too much motion which would exploit the weaknesses in the codec. I also threw in some 720p shots and upscaled them in the final edit. My biggest mistake was not taking my proper video monopod out to film, instead relying on handheld or a basic photography monopod. It wasn't until I went out for some golden hour footage I took along a proper tripod. Good old Warp Stabiliser came in handy! The edit was a quick couple of hours piecing together the best shots, no real story part from the obvious changing of time and I graded using one of James Miller's DeLUTs as a starting point, tweaking to my own taste. For me this was a refreshing challenge. Normally I opt to do some photography or go a bike ride to escape from my normal work but this was a cheeky day out filming to keep my creativity going at the height of working season. Filmmaking should always be about the fun and not about the expensive gear and with that I think I will arm myself with the little GH1 and see what we can come up with in the future. I will be writing a more in depth blog post on my own website so when that is done I will link that back to here. Finally I just want to say well done to PannySVHS for winning the best cinematography, I love the home video feel about this! Thank you to Andrew for coming up with this challenge and getting this little community together to create. Looking forward to more like this soon! Dan

@mercer @crevice I'm getting a little over 3 hours of power with the large NPF batteries running through the SmallHD Focus, One Little Remote v4, and the Micro with a Metabones Super16 Speedbooster attached. Not sure what actual record time will be like, but that's pretty impressive.

android for me, not a fan of apple and the way they do things. seems to me if its not in their best interests its no good for you either, stuff that

I think this is genuinely a HUGE step. Rarely, do we get such a big leap out of nowhere like this. I've never felt like any other camera was anything other than just good, or expected in 2019. This is different. It's like having a full frame Pocket 4K with nobs on... from the future. This image sits in the cinema world, not the video one. I've shot some S1 10bit V-LOG with it this weekend. Here's a frame: Compared to the X-T3 10bit F-LOG, dynamic range seems wider and shadows cleaner. Image is creamier, and less noisy at high ISOs. Base ISO is 640 in V-LOG, but extended ISO can go a bit lower. Compared to A7 III S-LOG 2/3, the codec is far more robust, less banding and compression, it looks like ProRes. I'll upload the original MOV files soon.

Yeah... Either way. Doesn't seem much point arguing any further. xD

CHDK/Magiclantern/Hacked GH2 movement/BTM_Pix kinda have proven that over the years indeed.

That's the thing, every camera company has all the necessary code already written. The hard part was finished years and years ago and now it's just a matter of going in and changing fields to lock or unlock things. They could literally change a zero to a one in the code unlock 24p.

So when they released the M100 or the GX7 Mark ii or even the a1200 years ago, they were willing to pay these millions in licensing fees for 24p and obviously all a1200 users were no budget indie filmmakers requiring 24p per Canon’s market research. Now I am kind of a Canon fanboy but this is just ridiculous now and explaining away the desire for 30p is just silly. And I think you’re wrong, people love the idea that they can shoot their home movies in a similar way the professional Hollywood films are shot... in fact, Canon used that as a marketing tool for years.

<brain exploding gif> If Canon is at a point where they have to cut 24p as a cost cutting measure then they're on death's bed. That's not the real reason, but still. "Guys, we gotta cut expenses." "Let's cut 24p." "You're a genius Roger, you just saved the company." Canon includes 24p in their sub-$200 Vixia camcorders! ?

IT'S CANON! The company that has a history of removing features even as they charge a premium! They're not saving money cutting out 24p, BUT even if they were it'd be fucking indefensible and NOT "smart" at all. Seriously, what planet are you living on?!

At least Canon won't sue you if you say something bad about their cameras ? Ted

What kind of mental gymnastics do you gotta play to try and spin getting rid of 24p as a "smart move?" Yo, like Canon of you want, there's nothing wrong with it, but c'mon.

"and they still fucking buy 'em! OMFG! xD" thats the best part lmaoooo The Canon apologist in the mkii thread are saying they don't even shoot 24p now lel.

It’s even worse in America. We have NTSC versions so we won’t be getting 25fps. Even if you could switch it to PAL mode, it may not play nice as 23.976 or 29.97fps are what places like broadcast stations here expect.

Costs a DoP's day rate! ;-)

LOL. Where is the source of the h.264 specific frame rate licensing info for 24p? Or is it the usual forum user Canon plant conjecture?

I think it'd be best, if you either put some photo samples for us to confirm, whether it's scope's fault OR just contact the seller. To my knowledge, no-one has ever had to tune their Ultra Star or posted any information about approaching this dilemma. BTW: In my opinion (any many people share this belief), anamorphicstore is a huge rip-off, but it's a free country and everyone chooses what they like.

Yes, SmallRig have only one version of BMMCC SmallRig cage. BTW, all my product images that have 16x9 ratio where shoot in RAW on BMMCC with Mosaic OLPF and processed in Resolve with workflow described sep by step here https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=65149&p=537852#p537852 See also BMMCC/BMMSC Rigs Collection: https://bmmccrigs.tumblr.com I really can't see any reason for myself to move to other camera yet. Some examples that may inspire you:

@shijan Pretty as heck! That smallrig cage is the one and only version? Asking to make sure everything fits with your products onto the right cage. Wouldnt want to buy the wrong cage. Nor the wrong camera:)

About 7 years ago i had few attempts to create DIY cinema camera, but it appears too complicated ant too risky as for hobby project. You can read a full story here: A story from SmallRig customer

For anyone who might be curious what a Canon shooter would think of such a camera (and why BM might have gone EF mount) then check out Matti. and his review.... TLDR - he loves it and is completely blown away with the footage. He's bothered by the battery life and screen and usual stuff, but completely excuses it considering the cost. He also mentioned that it's the first BM camera he'd recommend to other people.

No you are not alone. I mostly shoot 25/50p here, no one asked me to shoot 30p/24p, I do get occasional 60P request

You're right, which is even worse, but I just picked a round number. Yeah... nobody shoots 24p...

It means they finally caught up with a 2015 Sony or a 2014 Panasonic?

I agree. It doesn't "REALLY matter". We are to the point where we have plenty of resolution, although better colors and better dynamic range would be nice to have. It is very amusing to me that we are going for crazy high resolutions, then blurring the background via aperture choices, and doing things like adding pro-mist filters to soften the image. I have a friend that is a well known DP who has put pantyhose and other things over the lenses to soften the look. Super high resolution is a nightmare for some things. There are some things that simply look better if they are soft without all the details (e.g. aging actors & actresses, etc.) Airbrushing a photo is one thing, but airbrushing a video is a whole different planet of costs.

Seems he couldn't mount those PL lenses on that Pocket6K then

Oh wow thank you, did not know this one even exists ! I had the 12 f2 on APSC, 14 f2.8 on FF and I tried the 20 1.8 FF, but 16 T2.6 FF could be the perfect balance. Very tempting. Unfortunately, I can't find a lot of reviews. Also, I was checking reviews concerning the 135 f2 and... what a lens ; they hit a home run with this one. Great for portrait, awesome for astrophoto. The Haida VariND I bought is named "haida proii-s mc variable nd". If I remember, I got it from ebay, as I couldn't find it in stock in "regular" shops. I believe this is it : https://www.amazon.fr/Haida-PROII-S-Filtre-variable-ND9-ND1000/dp/B00GUOPM26/ref=sr_1_2?__mk_fr_FR=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&keywords=haida+proii-s+mc+variable+nd&qid=1566116628&s=electronics&sr=1-2 When I bought it, raving reviews were everywhere, like the new Samyang of the filters world ! I also bought 3 filters from Haida (the same class if I remember well), but non-VariND ones as I wanted them for stills only. Edit : just took an image of it

Pocket Camera comes with the full Version of Resolve. You can buy a Resolve Dongle for about $170 on eBay.

Please don’t advertise you’re an American, it makes the rest of us look bad. Hahaha... just kidding. I’m almost convinced Skip77 (and possibly ZachGoodwin2) are alter egos of somebody on this site having a laugh.

Same thing for me. I had that troll on ignore but some how he resurfaces. Because you are trolling and deserve it?

I didn't have time today to do detailed tests, but I did grab a few clips while the kids were playing in the pool this afternoon. I haven't looked at the footage yet, but I did discover one thing: As you probably know, the P4K + Metabones + Sigma 18-35 is a bit slow to focus (it sucks ~ 3 seconds each time you focus). I wondered if the slow focusing had something to do with the Metabones. Having the P6K gives a perfect opportunity to test the lens directly. Interestingly, the focusing on the P6K.....equally sucks. It takes about 3 seconds to focus with the 18-35 on the P6K. I didn't notice a difference in focusing speed on either the P4K + Metabones or the P6K. Not sure about other lenses, as I only tested the 18-35 today.