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i feel like im starting to get the hang of this filmmaking thing, for the first time, with the project im doing right now i dunno how i couldve gotten this far without andrew, eoshd, and all u guys on this board helping me, and answering my stupid questions it means a lot i just want u all 2 kno ? thank you

We have cameras that are unable to shoot internal RAW literally because of RED. You want to stop animosity against a company that is completely screwing everyone else over and suing people left and right? A company that made it so Blackmagic had no choice but to create their own RAW format and made companies like Panasonic, Sony, and Nikon all have to figure out ways to make raw external instead, which in turn makes the rest of us have to buy expensive external recorders and expensive SSDs? Seriously, no offense man - but you should probably quit telling people what to do and how to treat companies, especially companies that are making our work life more difficult and more expensive. Also, dont forget where you are - this is EOSHD, where the creator of the site is very critical of companies - which in turn pushes them to be better and to quit their bullshit. So in conclusion, please get off your high horse and realize that we shouldn’t bow down to big bad RED and let them push us around with their bullshit patent. And this “animosity” is very much warranted.

Red is the reason why we cant have nice compressed RAW video on other cameras except Red

Its gonna be a party in here, dvxuser, r/videography, and r/cinematography if RED looses to Apple in the lawsuit. Fingers crossed they loose the case.

2.8K Anamorphic Mode 2.6K 120 FPS Changeable area sensor size new frame guides + custom Spirit level https://www.4kshooters.net/2019/09/20/bmpcc-4k-to-get-2-8k-anamorphic-mode-custom-windowing-of-the-sensor-and-more

You have lots of options for affordable cameras that shoot good. No one cares about red fanboys here. We care about if RED's patent is valid or not. In this case, details matter.

It's challenge time again. Behold.... The SINGLE SOVIET PRIME LENS challenge!! Based on your replies on my poll, here is the next challenge. RULES: The entire film must be shot with a single Soviet fully-manual prime lens (they're cheap and there are heaps to choose from - more detail below) You must include at least one person in your film. It can be yourself, a friend/relative, a model, or a complete stranger, but there has to be someone in it. You must include the following shots: A wide, showing a landscape of some kind (it's advisable to have at leas one of these as an establishing shot). If there are people in it, they must fit completely within the frame, head-to-toe. ie, go really wide A medium shot (showing the persons chest, shoulders and head) A close-up shot (the persons face must be more than half the height of the frame) Bonus points for low-angles, high angles, extreme wides, or other types of shots Timing: Films are to be posted in this thread by 1st November (this allows time for equipment, shipping, shooting, editing, grading, etc) Judging will occur from 1st November to 8th November (see below about judging) No talking about any equipment until after judging. ie, until after 8th November This timing won't change, so plan accordingly. Remember, you can enter as soon as you like. The prize is eternal fame and glory Everyone is a judge, and can present any award they think is well deserved. To present an award you must say what the award is ("best cinematography", "best sound", "best Dalek cameo", etc) who the winner of the award is, and what the winner did to deserve the prize (why they are the winner). What lenses am I allowed to use? Any lens from Helios, Mir, Tair, Industar, or Jupiter, or any other lens you can prove was made in USSR / Russia (eg, Dog Schitd lenses are fine). They are common, easily available, cheap, and adapt to almost any camera, so no excuses. Each of these brands made a full set of FF lenses in the soviet era, so you can choose any brand or any focal length you like. This thread here has more information than you could possibly want about Russian lenses: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?152436-Russian-Soviet-USSR-Lens-Survival-Guide Remember that you need to get wide, medium, and close-up shots, so try not to choose a lens with too long a focal length, but remember that you have to get a close-up, so unless you know someone who will get quite close to the camera, you should also avoid a lens that is too wide. Remember to take into account your sensor size, a 58mm Helios on MFT is the equivalent of a 116mm lens on a FF camera! (note: speed-boosters are also allowed) I'd suggest something in the range of 28-60mm FF equivalent, and if you're not sure then go with something around 30-40mm equivalent. The most common mount is m42 (which I'd recommend if you're new to adapting) but they also come in other mounts, so be sure to check before ordering. If you're not familiar with Russian lenses, they have a vintage look with heaps of character, but can be super-sharp stopped down a bit, so I'd encourage you to think about the lens as a lens you might use in the future, not just for this competition. You can use a Soviet lens you already own, however I'd encourage you to buy a new one for this challenge in a focal length you don't already have, this way you will still learn something from the challenge. FAQ: Why only one lens? Many famous directors made entire films with only a single prime lens. Noam Kroll wrote an excellent article about why this is a good idea - check it out: https://noamkroll.com/many-iconic-directors-have-shot-their-feature-films-with-just-a-single-prime-lens-heres-why/. Why do I have to get specific shots? To understand that even without a zoom or a kit of lenses, you can still get a variety of shots. ...and even moreso than that, a film with a variety of shots is far more interesting than one where all the shots are POV mid shots (like many lazy YT film-makers do). The article above lists lots of benefits to this approach. Where do I find more info about different types of shots? This might be useful: https://www.careersinfilm.com/types-of-shots-in-film/ Why does it have to be a fully-manual lens? The first reason is to experience using manual focus and the aesthetic that comes with it. Many people are frustrated with AF (as I was) but are afraid to tackle manually focusing a lens, however the learning curve isn't that big and the aesthetic of pulling focus manually is better than any AF. This is because when you pull focus you get the speed and transition that feels right just by doing it, whereas no camera can read your mind about how fast to transition etc. The second is to get exposure to using older prime lenses. These lenses (assuming you don't get a lens that has been heavily abused) will feel great to use in the same ways that only modern lenses costing many thousands of dollars do. There is a reason that people on reduser.com who own high-end 4K/6K/8K RAW shooting cinema cameras have multiple threads talking about cheap vintage lenses, and why the USSR lens thread has over 90K views, the Contax Zeiss thread has 1.4M views, and the Minolta thread has 131K views. What camera can I use? Anything, as long as it's not a potato. (oh, ok, those are allowed too). Can I.... use Speed-boosters? use wide-angle adapters? use creative filters (Black Pro Mist, etc)? Absolutely. Can I.... shoot 6K 60fps RAW? shoot 8K RAW? shoot 120fps? deliver in 2.35:1? deliver B&W? use my Soviet lens in an anamorphic rig? Stand on one leg? Use The Force? I don't know if you can do those things, but if you can then you're welcome to do so. Like they say - "if you've got it, flaunt it!". What other equipment can I use? Whatever you like. What if I'm no good at film-making? Just beginning? Don't know anyone? Live in a cave? Just get a Russian lens, an adapter and any camera. Go to a city or where people are and shoot people. Shoot people in the distance, shoot people walking past the camera, put the camera on a ledge and shoot yourself walking past to get the close-up. If you live in a cave then just take shots of yourself - I'm sure that living so far from the rest of us probably means you have beautiful scenery so be sure to include that. Look at all your footage and choose the best shots, making sure to include the required shots. Put music over the top and post it. There is beauty in simplicity, and beginners luck really exists. Just give it a try, if you do something you've never done you will learn something new - I guarantee it. [Edit: you can also enter as many times as you like. You can buy as many lenses as you like too, but the limit is that each entry can only be shot with one lens. If you wanted permission to buy a whole set of vintage soviet lenses, this is your excuse!!] If you have questions then fire away, but otherwise, gentlemen (and Kaylee!) start your engines!!

Pretty much*. Red's patent is for a video recording that matches all these criteria: - 50% green pixels, 25% red pixels, 25% blue pixels - 24 or more FPS - 6:1 or higher compression ratio - Greater than 4000 pixels wide Obviously, Red didn't invent any of these ideas. There are no special algorithms. It's not like they invented a compression algorithm and patented that. Many of us believe that the patent was likely granted by bureaucrats with no background in digital video who were overwhelmed with technical terms and thought that Red had actually made something new. What exactly is the intellectual property in this case? Everything in Red's patent already existed, sensor and processor technology just hadn't gotten to the point of making it 4k yet. And keep in mind they didn't patent their 4k technology, they patented the concept. It would be like if the first person to invent a car that goes over 100 mph was able lock everyone else out of making 4 wheeled gas powered vehicles that could go over 100 mph. More specifically, Moore's law has been accepted for decades. Resolution wars were already a thing. We knew processors would get better, we knew sensors would get higher resolution. I would argue that it was "obvious" that techniques already in place for HD images could be applied to 4k images, which would invalidate the patent. As an analogous question, do you believe that Sharp should be allowed to patent the concept of an 8k television simply because they were the first to make one? *Edit: and to clarify, I'm not saying Red is evil. I blame the patent office.

not for straight up liars imho

We can understand all this but let's stop any animosity against RED or any other manufacturer, can we please? Haters never broke the heart of filmmakers... Here in EOSHD, just puts down the reputation of this house instead. Hey guys, thanks for listening BTW : -)

Here are a few more frames from some lens tests. Canon 35mm f/2 IS... Samyang 50mm 1.4...

Down with RED!

This guy is brilliant. He has already brought Red to its knees. Sony and Apple should hire him for sending Red to the cleaners wrt their fake patents. I noticed he has a gofundme campaign, and I would love to contribute. Anyone who believes in honesty and fighting off the evil behemoths and corporate super bullies, should help him too. In whatever little way. This is truly the modern age David vs Goliath story.

that's bizarre, I'd consider getting a ninja star or ninka 2 at that point

The patent system in the US is broken. Amazon was granted a patent for photographing objects on a white seamless backdrop. Seriously. The cost of a patent trial is several millions of dollars. So a company like Red, with deep pockets, can bully the shit out of smaller companies. Like this. They can also force large companies to settle. Is it worth the risk of going to court to try and invalidate a bullshit patent? What if you lose? Sony settled with Red out of court in July 2013. Cheaper and safer to license and pass the cost off the the customer. Good for them. Can’t blame Red for a broken patent, legal and economic system. They’re simply trying to run a business. And now they have the honour of being on the receiving end of getting fucked by a company with infinitely greater resources. No sympathy.

Yes it will be, and I think we’re likely on the right track with our guesswork. Komodo looks super interesting, and is an answer to Zcam, Kinefinity and BM. Gotta say I’m curious. I hated using the Epic and Scarlet-W bit liked the images in REDcode. The size and features of Komodo make it seem very accessible. Don’t get me wrong, RAW is great. I remember my jaw dropping to ML RAW on 5D and on a Kinemini 4K film. Just when like me, I’ve got overheads and expenses coming out my ears and not much time between projects, RAW is a very close no-go. I’ve used both REDcode and ProRes RAW in FCPX. ProRes RAW is especially fast but it needs more integrated control. It’s a huge step forward. BUT, 10bit gives me everything I need at a much lower overall cost.

I see your point, but I don't think that's quite analogous. I think a more accurate analogy would be if Coke and Pepsi were actively in a "sugar race" to find new ways to add more sugar to their drinks (in an imaginary world where it's scientifically difficult to add more sugar!), and then Coke patented any drink that had a 50% sugar content or more. Pepsi has already had the concept of 50% sugar for decades and has been racing to find a way to do it, but has to give up on their goal because it's no longer legal--even if they were using a completely different sugar-injection process than Coke was. Red didn't patent an exact recipe, they patented a cap on specs in the middle of a spec war.

Damn, that SDI almost doubles it's price. I've got mine (HDMI only) for 220euros from Aliexpress. I also shot with the SDI version and it's pretty solid. The image is bright even in sunlight, you can load luts and the IQ is very nice. But do not buy the claymore wireless, for 600 euros it's a bummer. Works very badly and you have to walk next to the camera to get the image from the transmitter.

No you were not asked where the footage is. I fully understand that no one has footage outside of Sigma. I merely questioned your otherwise interesting article’s title. As I do not feel an article that claims to be “comprehensive” can be absent of the single most important aspect of any camera... the footage. Also no information of base ISO... or ISOs if it is dual? It was a simple comment. It was not meant as a personal attack on anyone. And for the record, I’m pleased to see more players come into the video market, as I believe competition is a healthy thing and great for consumers. Perhaps you will ban me for saying these things? I have noticed of late, that pretty much everything is tolerated by those claiming to be tolerant... unless what is presented is a difference of opinion. That’s where tolerance ends.

This is my speculation: Apple is aggressively targeting the professional market with the new Mac Pro, and they want to sell a ton of them. It has been designed for optimum performance in FCPX and ProRes RAW. They want high level creators to adopt and have easy access to ProRes RAW, but the RED patent is getting in the way. Hence, question it and invalidate it. There’s also no denying that RED has been dishonest, but there’s no denying they’ve created unique products that create amazing images. And you’re right that barely anyone uses any kind of RAW in the professional world. RAW costs a hell of a lot of money to use (I know this having done it) and 10bit or even 8 bit codecs are 99.9% more than enough to produce high grade projects. What I want is the juiciest, most beautiful, yet economical 10bit codec in full readout up to 4K 100fps in full frame under $5000 - then we’re done ✅

I preordered too, rep told me they get stock Oct 27.

There's a difference between voting with your wallet and spewing hate. I don't really see much of the latter here, but you don't have to look hard on the internet to find comments about RED with more vitriol than useful information. We can disapprove of RED's practices AND keep it civil at the same time, which I think is what @Emanuel is saying. RED is hardly the only company whose strategy is to create a mythos around their brand. They are certainly not the only company to patent everything they can, whether or not the average person would consider those patents valid. And I guarantee they're not the only company that can be found to be lying if you comb through all their forum posts from the last 15 years. Let's certainly call out bad practice when we see it, but be civil at the same time. I also found this episode to be a lot less damning than previous ones. Because to be honest, I'm not concerned with whether RED makes their own sensors or not, or when exactly they invented Redcode. I honestly don't care if someone inaccurately remembers when their company created something. I think the patent should be removed for being obvious, the technicality of when Redcode was invented it might be what overthrows the patent, but it's the obviousness of the concept that makes the patent seem wrong.

Always positive vibes in your posts, love it! And I agree that this forum is a great resource ?

Put in for a preorder. Getting N-LOG out of my Z6 and the preamps on the 7" will be hopefully great. Also have about 4 terabytes worth of SD cards so I love that this records to them.

You still need to pay for the raw license though Ha, the PD170 is lucky to be worth even twenty bucks! Very true. Although the last time I worked with a SD camera was probably five or six years ago. I think she should buy a Sony X70 secondhand, or perhaps a Panasonic FZ1000 / Sony RX10 or similar

"No wrongdoing"..... aside from all their documented lying in that latest episode??

Novoflex do one for about £150 but there are generic ones like this for under £20. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pixco-Adapter-Canon-Camera-FD-Leica/dp/B07BRCX6W5/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=fd+to+leica+t&qid=1569155278&s=gateway&sr=8-1

RED CEO Jim Jannard also ran Oakleys sunglasses and they sponsored Lance’s career. The link was never hidden ?

Blasphemy! Never re-use a miniDV tape! Unless you're talking about pre-striping for TC, but in that case you should've rewound it immediately after you finished the first pass (And done this in a separate deck so that you don't put unnecessary hours on your cameras tape heads and drive mechanism)! I only just recently got rid of all my old mini-dv tapes - a collection of thousands., because I never re-used them.

You probably missed the link in the older thread to a Youtube vid, with proof of a link between the two. I agree, there is no excuse for the way Red has been running business. No hostility needed.

u had me at single soviet prime

I don't know anything about these lenses' performance specifically, but AF in cine lenses as a good thing (if it doesn't compromise MF ergonomics). Extra versatility is always welcome. I'm just waiting for someone to pair an internal lens AF motor with a wireless follow focus wheel that behaves the same as current wireless follow focuses with external motors, but with fewer wires and no extra module requiring a power supply.

OK, RED's PR is pretty freaking scummy. Claiming everything was in-house and directly innovated by them when it really wasn't and lying to the press about it is shitty business ethics. However, I still find admiration for the fact that RED basically LEGO built their camera and marketed better than any of the established players. The other companies just moved too slow. Can't wait for part 5 about REDCODE since a lot hinges on that patent. I gotta say this has been a great "investigative" documentary series on YouTube.

A couple of weeks ago a lady noticed my GH5 / VMP rig and asked me about it. Turns out she runs a small studio and is looking to replace her PD170 and "go HD". We spoke for some time and it was obvious from the conversation that she hasn't been looking at the tech for quite some time. Her three concerns were 1) no-one was offering any money at all for selling her PD170 (people were offering $20 and 'novelty' amounts like that), 2) she wanted to digitise all her tapes, and 3) she wanted to get new equipment and was admiring how small the GH5 was. Really goes to show how we on these forums are in a little bubble of 4k/6k 10-bit etc, when there are people out there who haven't gone HD yet, and we did the $200 challenge with HD cameras!

They are stills lenses with breathing and a huge mark-up.

We are talking about a company that even cripples its $7500 pro camera: the C200 that came without middle ground codec. The 1DX2 doesn't even come with LOG and decent codec. This 1DX3 won't be different. Canon's history is full of video crippling. Just pick your pain: DPAF disabled, massive crop, no LOG, no 24fps, recording limits, crop, stupid inefficient codec, etc. They'll fuck up the video specs somehow. Canon couldn't care less about the S1H and the competition, all that matters is to prevent product cannibalization and keep the offering segmented.

Just add support for FS Raw please BMD! Like Atomos has

Whatabout the 007 aspect ratio? Cinematic no matter what you're shooting:

@Mako Sports inverted cinemascope ratio lol

I tried watching the video and got about 10 minutes in and was bored out of my mind at the strange points the guy was trying to make from off handed comments said at Red rallies or on social media. Honestly, I’ve only half followed this story but, correct me if I’m wrong, Red is evil because they received a blanket patent regarding some form of internal compressed raw? And people are pissed off because this patent keeps them from being able to buy a cheaper camera that has internal compressed raw? So filmmakers and content creators are against intellectual property, now? Re: Apple lawsuit against Red... I find it more likely that Apple is using the court system to test the validity of Red’s Patent because Apple wants to purchase Red. Also, why does everybody suddenly need raw video? Hell, most television shows and movies are shot on ProRes.