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"put raw data in internal storage media" is not a company intellectual property and shouldn't be. These guys are a bunch of charlatans. Period.

A recipe includes a lot more than just ingredients. And those ingredients can make a lot more than just that single recipe. Your analogy is like saying that McDonalds should be allowed to patent the Big Mac in such a way that would prevent a Kebab shop from selling a beef doner that has lettuce, onion, cheese & tahini (sesame seed). It's the same ingredients and the end result is comparable in the sense that they are both fast food items, but they got there in a completely different way. When compared to what Red have done, your analogy is like asking if anobody else should be allowed to make cola, or burgers. But there's a lot of people making burgers and cola, because to patent those ideas would be totally insane.

I've spent many years watching hybrid "vidiots" at work trying to re-balance their tiny gimbals, running back and forth to check if their Zoom/Tascam is still recording, trying to get their tiny toy tripods to stay upright in the wind, explaining to the client why they're shooting video with a stills camera etc, and missing valuable shots in the process. All of these problems could've been avoided with a bigger, shoulder-mounted cam with XLR & ND's which just lets them shoot without thinking about anything else. I'm being a bit tongue in cheek, but just because somebody doesn't do things the same way as you, doesn't mean you need to call them an idiot.

Started to work on my triggering handle Also had à meeting with smallrig people today. They will work on triggering handles in the future as i told them all the interest of It. Also asked for many more things. Let's cross fingers

Yes, but in my opinion (and that of many people) "having a resolution over 4000 pixels wide" isn't an original ingredient that you can patent. It is too broad, and too obvious. And you can't patent something obvious. Maybe if Red had patented Raw compression on images "exactly 4000 pixels wide" it would sit better with us. Here's another example: Is it fair that RED's patent covers 16k 120 fps compressed raw video, when they can't do it themselves and certainly couldn't when the patent was filed? Perhaps. But they did say that they removed cDNG because of legal issues, without naming Red specifically.

It has a niche market among skate fillm-makers, though. Up until a few years ago even it's predecessor the VX1000 (from 1995!) was popular with skaters. I think it was a combination of skate films having a punk/grunge style where IQ was not terribly important, and 4:3 still being popular because it could allow better framing and coverage with a fisheye lens. And the built it top-handle allowed them to hold it low to the ground while riding. This market meant that for a long time the prices on for a VX1000/VX2000/VX2100/PD150/PD170 were generally higher than other cams from that era. A lot of the networks here in AUS actually went BACK to SD broadcast from HD for some of their channels. I think they realised that using the same amount of allocated bandwidth, they could broadcast multiple SD channels and therefore charge for more ad time than having a single HD channel. I think we're a very, very long way off 6K or even 4K being the main distribution format, and Sony know that too. That is why they have left 6K recording out for now. It's nerds on forums that care about 6K & 8K, and anyone actually working in broadcast production knows that (really good) 4K is all they will need for the next camera upgrade cycle.

The patent system in the US is broken. Amazon was granted a patent for photographing objects on a white seamless backdrop. Seriously. The cost of a patent trial is several millions of dollars. So a company like Red, with deep pockets, can bully the shit out of smaller companies. Like this. They can also force large companies to settle. Is it worth the risk of going to court to try and invalidate a bullshit patent? What if you lose? Sony settled with Red out of court in July 2013. Cheaper and safer to license and pass the cost off the the customer. Good for them. Can’t blame Red for a broken patent, legal and economic system. They’re simply trying to run a business. And now they have the honour of being on the receiving end of getting fucked by a company with infinitely greater resources. No sympathy.

I see your point, but I don't think that's quite analogous. I think a more accurate analogy would be if Coke and Pepsi were actively in a "sugar race" to find new ways to add more sugar to their drinks (in an imaginary world where it's scientifically difficult to add more sugar!), and then Coke patented any drink that had a 50% sugar content or more. Pepsi has already had the concept of 50% sugar for decades and has been racing to find a way to do it, but has to give up on their goal because it's no longer legal--even if they were using a completely different sugar-injection process than Coke was. Red didn't patent an exact recipe, they patented a cap on specs in the middle of a spec war.

Pretty much*. Red's patent is for a video recording that matches all these criteria: - 50% green pixels, 25% red pixels, 25% blue pixels - 24 or more FPS - 6:1 or higher compression ratio - Greater than 4000 pixels wide Obviously, Red didn't invent any of these ideas. There are no special algorithms. It's not like they invented a compression algorithm and patented that. Many of us believe that the patent was likely granted by bureaucrats with no background in digital video who were overwhelmed with technical terms and thought that Red had actually made something new. What exactly is the intellectual property in this case? Everything in Red's patent already existed, sensor and processor technology just hadn't gotten to the point of making it 4k yet. And keep in mind they didn't patent their 4k technology, they patented the concept. It would be like if the first person to invent a car that goes over 100 mph was able lock everyone else out of making 4 wheeled gas powered vehicles that could go over 100 mph. More specifically, Moore's law has been accepted for decades. Resolution wars were already a thing. We knew processors would get better, we knew sensors would get higher resolution. I would argue that it was "obvious" that techniques already in place for HD images could be applied to 4k images, which would invalidate the patent. As an analogous question, do you believe that Sharp should be allowed to patent the concept of an 8k television simply because they were the first to make one? *Edit: and to clarify, I'm not saying Red is evil. I blame the patent office.

No you were not asked where the footage is. I fully understand that no one has footage outside of Sigma. I merely questioned your otherwise interesting article’s title. As I do not feel an article that claims to be “comprehensive” can be absent of the single most important aspect of any camera... the footage. Also no information of base ISO... or ISOs if it is dual? It was a simple comment. It was not meant as a personal attack on anyone. And for the record, I’m pleased to see more players come into the video market, as I believe competition is a healthy thing and great for consumers. Perhaps you will ban me for saying these things? I have noticed of late, that pretty much everything is tolerated by those claiming to be tolerant... unless what is presented is a difference of opinion. That’s where tolerance ends.

We have cameras that are unable to shoot internal RAW literally because of RED. You want to stop animosity against a company that is completely screwing everyone else over and suing people left and right? A company that made it so Blackmagic had no choice but to create their own RAW format and made companies like Panasonic, Sony, and Nikon all have to figure out ways to make raw external instead, which in turn makes the rest of us have to buy expensive external recorders and expensive SSDs? Seriously, no offense man - but you should probably quit telling people what to do and how to treat companies, especially companies that are making our work life more difficult and more expensive. Also, dont forget where you are - this is EOSHD, where the creator of the site is very critical of companies - which in turn pushes them to be better and to quit their bullshit. So in conclusion, please get off your high horse and realize that we shouldn’t bow down to big bad RED and let them push us around with their bullshit patent. And this “animosity” is very much warranted.

Red is the reason why we cant have nice compressed RAW video on other cameras except Red

Sounds to me like the fuse of the power supply that powers the mount is burned out. Should be possible to fix if you know what to look for. Silkscreen on PCB might be indicate them with Fx (where x is a number). Try measuring the fuses and pins with a multimeter.

No native lens here yet. Will try some slow motion soon

Just received mine. Blue issue has been fixed but ghosting is still there. oh my... some tests from earlier Great color, no sharpening, but temporal noise reduction making skin look like it has been shot at 360 deg shutter... https://drive.google.com/open?id=17B0mlRipdiuG_p3Dg8fwLj-n53ZojieF (download)

But why would Apple spend all this money on a lawsuit if the patent is not stopping them from doing something?

The F6 seems hard to beat with that variable ND. The S1H is nice but this has internal RAW(probably prores as well), internal ND's (depending on the mount you use I assume), and 4k 120fps.

But don’t you need all of those “ingredients” to encroach on Red’s patent? And are we sure this is the patent in question that Apple is fighting? It seems Blackmagic could have kept CDNG up to 5:1 compression or higher at less than 4000 pixels wide? They chose to create B-RAW. I wonder how that patent reads.

Thats the crux, how "specific and particular" does a recipe need to be to be patented. Red's patent is incredibly broad, like instead of being a recipe for a particular burger it is like a recipe that encompasses all burgers, not just the one RED makes. It even knocks down formats that existed before Redcode was invented--just because apprently ">4000 pixels wide" is a specific recipe ingredient. Blackmagic will likely reintroduce the cdng raw video they were forced to remove for legal reasons. Z cam probably would, they are currently making a "partial debayer" raw, likely because bayer raw is currently illegal. Sony obviously wants the patent gone, they tried to appeal it before, likely for their cameras that require an external unit (fs5 price range and up, i suspect.)

hey guys Just wanted to share a video I just produced about the new Edelkrone SliderOne V2 it is possibly the best travel slider on the market to date with the ability to carry up to 5lbs vertically I would love to hear your thought on this or any other slider that is this compact that can do all the Sliderone V2 can do best regards, Rick Edelkrone ...King of Sliders ?

+1. one of my best purchases. Fit my camera bags too.

Just picked up the SliderPlus Pro Compact last tuesday. Game changer. Never coming off my tripod

They make a Pro version that can hold FS7's and Usra mini's but it's $900 instead of $500 I have the Longer Edelkrone but now that i have this shorter one I realize i don't need a larger/longer one Most slides are about 5 to 8 seconds long in almost movies you watch unless it's a dolly move thru a hallway or something like that If you're making Full length films then yes a longer one will be better but for youtube and social media films this small on is all you need (IMO) best regards, Rick

lol, wth wants that holographic display anyway.

If they would do it, its gonna be a stylish camera with only a few controls/options that is way overpriced.

I think Apple are more likely to create their own cinema camera, and it will have the form factor of an iPhone. ?

Fortunately you can adjust tint now in the new Photos App.

I'd be very very surprised if Apple purchased RED

Took my iPhone XS Max (obsolete already!) along to the Apple Store the other day and put the cameras side by side with 11 Pro, the XS Max had the more pleasing colour tone at least under the lights of the Apple store, whereas the 11 Pro was shifted more towards green. Other than that, the XS Max had a SLIGHT bit more noise, but the 11 Pro looked like it had more noise reduction, with a more plastic texture. So you get an ultra wide angle camera and an image which in some ways is worse. Call me a luddite but not sure I want to spend 1400 euros upgrading every 12 months for this kind of deal. Especially when there are 48MP quad-bayer smartphones sensors in $500 phones from other manufacturers. I remain an Apple user, but they really need to up their game. They have some of the best and most natural camera results around and very good CPU, very good computational photography engine and the best mobile OS... But damn, give me a better reason to upgrade...

Use Filmic Pro, you can dial in custom white balance and tint.

I was being slightly tongue in cheek and mainly referencing the olde schoole videographers from 15+ years ago that usually took their wives along for no apparent reason other than company. Usually found wearing a polyester jacket flecked with dandruff and standing within 3 feet of the B&G at all times with his shoulder monstrosity. Gimbals. They can go do one also ?

You'd be surprised by how many of those types of cameras are shot on an ARRI Mini as well, when they've got the budget/resources for it. (although certainly RED is a more common choice, especially before the Mini was launched)

NFL Films camera of choice is actually the ARRI Amira lol

I watched the Werner Herzog course on Masterclass.com and it was fascinating. He's not short of an opinion, that's for sure! I'm not sure how many things I agree with him about, but two of them are definitely the importance of perseverance, and also the concept that you have to do something different to what you normally do. He does things differently to what most other people do (making up quotes, forging paperwork, etc) but he is remarkable because of his uniqueness, and we all have this potential for uniqueness, but it requires experimentation and persistence to find it.

lucky my tax return is on the way i guess i can find something in the time allotted. So count me in.

You create a reputation by consistently putting out good products tho. Gotta start somewhere. With the FX9 and FX6 it would make perfect sense.

One of the ways to invalidate the patent is by poking holes into or completely destroying the sequence of events.

The timeline is a significant part of the case, re: the patent. Establishing the correct timeline, and showing RED allegedly lied repeatedly, including possibly in court documents and/or during court testimony, is key to the case. Jinni did a good job detailing the information but didn't do a good job at all in showing how it all relates to RED's patent and how it allegedly undermines RED's claims, re: compressed RAW. It needs that context to resonate and show why this information is relevant outside of showing major inconsistencies.

This is my speculation: Apple is aggressively targeting the professional market with the new Mac Pro, and they want to sell a ton of them. It has been designed for optimum performance in FCPX and ProRes RAW. They want high level creators to adopt and have easy access to ProRes RAW, but the RED patent is getting in the way. Hence, question it and invalidate it. There’s also no denying that RED has been dishonest, but there’s no denying they’ve created unique products that create amazing images. And you’re right that barely anyone uses any kind of RAW in the professional world. RAW costs a hell of a lot of money to use (I know this having done it) and 10bit or even 8 bit codecs are 99.9% more than enough to produce high grade projects. What I want is the juiciest, most beautiful, yet economical 10bit codec in full readout up to 4K 100fps in full frame under $5000 - then we’re done ✅

To me you can simply compare it against other camera companies like Blackmagic and you see the difference. No company has an obligation to be open about their technology in a way that say Zcam is, but lying about it is a completely different matter. Of course lying happens all the time in many different businesses. If there is a more honest company I can support I certainly would though.

C'mon thephoenix, it's clear footage will come, but the article is surely a welcome update ? The camera was seen and thoughts shared, then everything reported back here. Of all the sites, I find this one the most integral.. ?

Its gonna be a party in here, dvxuser, r/videography, and r/cinematography if RED looses to Apple in the lawsuit. Fingers crossed they loose the case.

You have lots of options for affordable cameras that shoot good. No one cares about red fanboys here. We care about if RED's patent is valid or not. In this case, details matter.

There's definitely going to be a market for better AF cinema glass. Not sure if this is it but it'll happen sooner or later. Sony and Canon aren't putting auto focus in their higher end cameras for no reason.

The T-stop of a lens is often just a little slower than its F-stop, so I would suggest these are the cine version of F2.8 lenses. Maybe this one rehoused 16-35/2.8? The extra space and size would allow for the power-zoom functionality which doesn't seem to be present on the still lens, as well as equalise filters and weight across the range.

This guy is brilliant. He has already brought Red to its knees. Sony and Apple should hire him for sending Red to the cleaners wrt their fake patents. I noticed he has a gofundme campaign, and I would love to contribute. Anyone who believes in honesty and fighting off the evil behemoths and corporate super bullies, should help him too. In whatever little way. This is truly the modern age David vs Goliath story.

We are talking about a company that even cripples its $7500 pro camera: the C200 that came without middle ground codec. The 1DX2 doesn't even come with LOG and decent codec. This 1DX3 won't be different. Canon's history is full of video crippling. Just pick your pain: DPAF disabled, massive crop, no LOG, no 24fps, recording limits, crop, stupid inefficient codec, etc. They'll fuck up the video specs somehow. Canon couldn't care less about the S1H and the competition, all that matters is to prevent product cannibalization and keep the offering segmented.

I think when you're talking about recording on the T5 drives, rather than unwieldy external screen based recorders, the whole internal/external definition becomes a bit moot. Conceptually, its not actually that far removed from RED drives (aside from the "proprietary" media) and no one considers that to record externally. There are locking solutions for USB-C that could easily enable an after market "cartridge" type of housing and the SmallRig solution is a neat one. Hard to tell without taking it outdoors really but in terms of using it in combination with the loupe, I've used that same on my Sigma SD0 (and even put an LCD in it to make a cheap EVF ) and its very solid and with it on the FP we weren't having any difficulty hitting focus..... Well if they were, then as this was pretty much the response from me and @Andrew Reid when they mentioned the price they'll hopefully take that into account in their final calculations

Hey guys I got my bmpcc6k last wk and finally got to take it out this wknd to do some test shots. Here are some screen grabs. I shot in Braw 6k & 2.8k mixing 23.98, 50 and 120 fps. Lens was canon 24-70mm L series. Also I had no ND so I had to stop down a lot and mess with the ISO to expose. These stills I colored in Lightroom. I’ll have the video edited and colored within the next wk or so. I’m really loving the look. Also below are the raw files with the colored ones side by side. I’m not a colorist but I tried my best to bring out the colors. ============================================================================================================

This absolutely kills me. No one is willing to calm down and setup shots properly, etc. "oh, it'll be good enough." I really hate this line of misthinking. I tell people who say that, "okay for you, NEVER for me, you will NEVER be no more than good enough, or even less than." All my family says this when I bring out my gear and want to perform a proper shoot.