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My gripe is the whole mentality of: 1)Company/person did great things for the industry! 2)Product just works and works great! ....therefore, they get a free pass to do whatever they want because they earned that privilege. also it seems reduser is leaking into the YouTube comments for video 4. Pretty much the same sentiment. ”Red products have done great things for my career. Therefore they are above reproach.”

Jesus himself could come down from Heaven waving a banner saying "RED LIED" and folks on reduser would still not believe.

Lol at all the die hards over on reduser moving the goal posts. reduser: Red makes its own sensors because Jim said so something something gospel Jim deposition: Actually we didn't I just lied about it reduser: Red had to lie its just how business is done these days you can't expect them to make their own sensor its obvious!

It's not how I'd react, but I kinda get it. Those folks have invested a lot of money into RED cameras and accessories, and I'm sure they're overall very happy with them, so it's probably kind of difficult for them to accept these allegations. That the RED community has spent a decade plus interacting with the people at RED on a personal level probably doesn't help. Ultimately one of the things that kinda bums me out about all of this is, RED really did do incredible things. When you take away all the allegations, the premium charged for off the shelf tech, etc. you still have a series of cameras that helped democratize cinema cameras, moving the tech forward while also opening it up to a whole different class of people. Until Blackmagic got into the game RED was the only cinema camera people like my friends and me could afford to work with. And it was awesome! It's disappointing that it's legacy has changed in many ways. Regardless of the outcome it didn't need to be like this.

I don't think I saw this posted here yet... Lens test from Reduser.com Here's the thread on reduser.net with all the details: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?177346-The-Agony-Of-Choice-Vintage-Modern-Lens-Shootout

WARNING: MATURE CONTENT. Speed Date is a black comedy about Jack and Natalie who approach their allocated time together with different mindsets. What could go wrong? [Best with Headphones] Shot on a Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera + Sigma 18-35mm Lens.

The camera was just released in the US today, so you really need to give it some time. Pocket 4k had garbage promo videos and took a long time to start getting good well thought pieces, so you need to at least wait more than 24 hours from release. I did think kepler was fantastic though and so was the bowling one. That wobble has to be in software warp stabilizer, none of the footage I have seen online has that happening. I received mine this morning and will put it though its paces. I had a pocket 4k and a pocket 6k. So I will be comparing to those as I still have their original files/clips on my computer. I will be doing all handheld shots with adapted lenses Contax Zeiss lenses. I will report my honest feedback and if the camera does not impress, it will go back. I have no horse in this race as I only use adapted lenses anyways, so I am not defending this camera blindly. But I will say the footage you linked is pretty much all wide shots, set at infinity, with not much of a grade happening. Most cameras with that won't look impressive. I just think it has not been in enough hands yet to expect great footage yet - especially since good projects take weeks/months. A lot of the folks posting clips up seem to have no idea what they are doing, as they dont even have the proper shutter speed. Give it some time.

Then it went to bride.ru and now it's no longer single anymore. Sorry, I'll show myself out. ? __ But yeah, awesome challenge. Been a huge proponent of vintage Zenits! Especially the elusive 'Red 'P'' ones with focal length in 'cm' and special coatings. There's a good joke that 'when you see Red P, please go to the doctor!'. xD But indeed. The Jupiter-9 is dope! That's a wicked aperture. So is that of the TAIR-11A. Blades for days! But 135mm on a crop... good luck with that here. ? You know, both that TAIR-11 and MIR-1 won Grand Prix awards back in the day. Nice starry aperture formation on the Industar-61 L/Z 50mm f/2.8 Macro. If you really want something hilarious, get the tiny Industar 50-2. A 50mm f/3.5, it's sooo cute and inexpensive. Really always wanted the Helios 40-2... and they started making new batches again. But... 85mm (f/1.5). Used to shop a lot at my go-to Zenit dealership if you will, a well-kept secret for many years: https://www.ebay.com/usr/artemstore , but sharing is caring, no? Always superb condition, great details and info with the listings. Like... who knew about the 16-bladed Helios 44-3? I love browsing that place and learning a thing or two every now and again. You'll also still find a bunch of NOS (New Old Stock) lenses around on eBay. If you need adapters, I'd suggest Kent&Faith:

I just like Oly cams. Even though they don't get you excited on the spec sheet, when you use one it just makes a difference (for me). It's not easily explainable. I just always chalk it up to this: it's why someone likes a certain car over another similar model in class. There's always some collection of intangibles that add up to a sum greater than the parts. Some machines just harmonize with ones tastes and desires.

So, this is a much harder to answer question than you might think. The files straight out of camera are great on the GH5/GH5s. So, if you have a project that requires a quick turn around and doesn't have a budget for much post processing, I think that the GH5/GH5s is a better option than the P4K/P6K. In my opinion, the GH5/GH5s is also better for run/gun situations (better battery life, better ergonomics, better AF, etc.). The BRAW files on the P4K & P6K are excellent, but they require post processing. I don't care for the files if you just use them straight out of camera, like by baking in a LUT. I have tried the Blackmagic LUT, the Leeming LUT, the Buttery Films LUT, and others, but I don't like the way the files look unless I pull them into Davinci and process them. Normally, this wouldn't be a problem, but I broadcast events live several times per week. I need to be able to apply a LUT to the live feed and have a great look to broadcast. So far, I haven't perfected that process. I am still not happy with the image straight from the camera. I am working on LUTs for this on a regular basis. We just finished a commercial shot entirely on the P4Ks and it turned out great, but we had time to process the footage. So for fast turnaround projects, pick the GH5/GH5s. If you have time to work with the footage, pick the P4K/P6K. If I can get a nice display LUT, then I will use the P4K/P6K much more often and could probably replace the Panasonic cameras all together. For me and the work that I do, the S1H is darn near the perfect camera (although the AF still bothers me...)

I am kind of surprised this time that I haven't gotten any likes on my stills. ?

After watching this video and the one before it, it's easy to see that ALL of RED's claims should be reexamined. Their false use of "made in the USA" and false claims of designing their own sensors go well beyond ethical business practices. I have little doubt that the industry will be better off once this patent is revoked. It's smoke and mirrors, and it's holding back fair competition.

Posting frame grabs makes sense to me as they're far less compressed than posting a YT or Vimeo video. Posting stills is even better as it shows the capabilities of the lens in more detail. There are other aspects to lenses, but surely seeing what the image looks like through them is a pretty big part of a lenses performance? and if not, what else would you like to see that we're not talking about?

I want colors close to this (not that much warm though).. but straight out of camera! Wish Nikon let us import luts.. someday.

It's challenge time again. Behold.... The SINGLE SOVIET PRIME LENS challenge!! Based on your replies on my poll, here is the next challenge. RULES: The entire film must be shot with a single Soviet fully-manual prime lens (they're cheap and there are heaps to choose from - more detail below) You must include at least one person in your film. It can be yourself, a friend/relative, a model, or a complete stranger, but there has to be someone in it. You must include the following shots: A wide, showing a landscape of some kind (it's advisable to have at leas one of these as an establishing shot). If there are people in it, they must fit completely within the frame, head-to-toe. ie, go really wide A medium shot (showing the persons chest, shoulders and head) A close-up shot (the persons face must be more than half the height of the frame) Bonus points for low-angles, high angles, extreme wides, or other types of shots Timing: Films are to be posted in this thread by 1st November (this allows time for equipment, shipping, shooting, editing, grading, etc) Judging will occur from 1st November to 8th November (see below about judging) No talking about any equipment until after judging. ie, until after 8th November This timing won't change, so plan accordingly. Remember, you can enter as soon as you like. The prize is eternal fame and glory Everyone is a judge, and can present any award they think is well deserved. To present an award you must say what the award is ("best cinematography", "best sound", "best Dalek cameo", etc) who the winner of the award is, and what the winner did to deserve the prize (why they are the winner). What lenses am I allowed to use? Any lens from Helios, Mir, Tair, Industar, or Jupiter, or any other lens you can prove was made in USSR / Russia (eg, Dog Schitd lenses are fine). They are common, easily available, cheap, and adapt to almost any camera, so no excuses. Each of these brands made a full set of FF lenses in the soviet era, so you can choose any brand or any focal length you like. This thread here has more information than you could possibly want about Russian lenses: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?152436-Russian-Soviet-USSR-Lens-Survival-Guide Remember that you need to get wide, medium, and close-up shots, so try not to choose a lens with too long a focal length, but remember that you have to get a close-up, so unless you know someone who will get quite close to the camera, you should also avoid a lens that is too wide. Remember to take into account your sensor size, a 58mm Helios on MFT is the equivalent of a 116mm lens on a FF camera! (note: speed-boosters are also allowed) I'd suggest something in the range of 28-60mm FF equivalent, and if you're not sure then go with something around 30-40mm equivalent. The most common mount is m42 (which I'd recommend if you're new to adapting) but they also come in other mounts, so be sure to check before ordering. If you're not familiar with Russian lenses, they have a vintage look with heaps of character, but can be super-sharp stopped down a bit, so I'd encourage you to think about the lens as a lens you might use in the future, not just for this competition. You can use a Soviet lens you already own, however I'd encourage you to buy a new one for this challenge in a focal length you don't already have, this way you will still learn something from the challenge. FAQ: Why only one lens? Many famous directors made entire films with only a single prime lens. Noam Kroll wrote an excellent article about why this is a good idea - check it out: https://noamkroll.com/many-iconic-directors-have-shot-their-feature-films-with-just-a-single-prime-lens-heres-why/. Why do I have to get specific shots? To understand that even without a zoom or a kit of lenses, you can still get a variety of shots. ...and even moreso than that, a film with a variety of shots is far more interesting than one where all the shots are POV mid shots (like many lazy YT film-makers do). The article above lists lots of benefits to this approach. Where do I find more info about different types of shots? This might be useful: https://www.careersinfilm.com/types-of-shots-in-film/ Why does it have to be a fully-manual lens? The first reason is to experience using manual focus and the aesthetic that comes with it. Many people are frustrated with AF (as I was) but are afraid to tackle manually focusing a lens, however the learning curve isn't that big and the aesthetic of pulling focus manually is better than any AF. This is because when you pull focus you get the speed and transition that feels right just by doing it, whereas no camera can read your mind about how fast to transition etc. The second is to get exposure to using older prime lenses. These lenses (assuming you don't get a lens that has been heavily abused) will feel great to use in the same ways that only modern lenses costing many thousands of dollars do. There is a reason that people on reduser.com who own high-end 4K/6K/8K RAW shooting cinema cameras have multiple threads talking about cheap vintage lenses, and why the USSR lens thread has over 90K views, the Contax Zeiss thread has 1.4M views, and the Minolta thread has 131K views. What camera can I use? Anything, as long as it's not a potato. (oh, ok, those are allowed too). Can I.... use Speed-boosters? use wide-angle adapters? use creative filters (Black Pro Mist, etc)? Absolutely. Can I.... shoot 6K 60fps RAW? shoot 8K RAW? shoot 120fps? deliver in 2.35:1? deliver B&W? use my Soviet lens in an anamorphic rig? Stand on one leg? Use The Force? I don't know if you can do those things, but if you can then you're welcome to do so. Like they say - "if you've got it, flaunt it!". What other equipment can I use? Whatever you like. What if I'm no good at film-making? Just beginning? Don't know anyone? Live in a cave? Just get a Russian lens, an adapter and any camera. Go to a city or where people are and shoot people. Shoot people in the distance, shoot people walking past the camera, put the camera on a ledge and shoot yourself walking past to get the close-up. If you live in a cave then just take shots of yourself - I'm sure that living so far from the rest of us probably means you have beautiful scenery so be sure to include that. Look at all your footage and choose the best shots, making sure to include the required shots. Put music over the top and post it. There is beauty in simplicity, and beginners luck really exists. Just give it a try, if you do something you've never done you will learn something new - I guarantee it. [Edit: you can also enter as many times as you like. You can buy as many lenses as you like too, but the limit is that each entry can only be shot with one lens. If you wanted permission to buy a whole set of vintage soviet lenses, this is your excuse!!] If you have questions then fire away, but otherwise, gentlemen (and Kaylee!) start your engines!!

https://www.43rumors.com/ft5-e-m5iii-willbe-announced-on-october-17-and-feature-the-same-20-mp-sensor/ E-M5III rumor summary: Announcement on October 17 (99% certain) Same E-M1II sensor with 121 cross-type phase detection pixels. (80% certain) New processing engine (90% certain) Lighter, more plasticky but still weather sealed body (60% certain) Same BLS-50 battery of the PEN and E-M10 camera series (60% certain) With these specs, with the newer AF from the E-M1 X / E-M1 MK II fw 3.0 with PDAF, their last color science, and a lower price from the E-M10 / E-M5 "consolidation", could be a very interesting option.

This isn't click-bait BS, let's actually talk about why 6K RAW cameras aren't really needed. I see two main reasons: Many cameras already shoot 6K downscaled to a 4K output (and the GH5 even has a lower-processed 5K anamorphic 4:3 mode) so the resolution benefits of 6K debayer resolution for a 4K delivery are already being enjoyed by many people For those who are claiming you need 6K to reframe for a 4K output, it is likely you don't know what reframing actually looks like There is a third reason - that resolution has absolutely nothing to do with how good your film is, but I'll just assume that people who are desperate to get more resolution are probably not yet ready to hear this and I'll move on and pretend it somehow matters. Much analysis has been done of the 6K -> 4K downsampling cameras, so I won't replicate those conversations, but instead let's look at the reframing argument. If you're shooting 6K to reframe and get a 100% 4K crop out, you can reframe into the image up to 150% . ie, if you want to match the same re-framing with only a 4K source, you must scale up that 4K source to 150%, effectively using a 2.5k source. It sounds terrible, and despite people repeatedly saying that ARRI cameras capture at 3.2k and upscale to 4K (a 125% upscale) people still dismiss upscaling out-of-hand without actually knowing what difference this scaling makes, and being too lazy to actually test it themselves. So I did it for you.... I look forward to people arguing their point in the face of overwhelming evidence.... ??? That is, unless you're delivering in 6K and also want to re-frame heavily in post, but seriously - who would be doing that?

Apology accepted. lol, nah of course non is needed and you well know it, c'mon now. ? And emphasis on 'jm2c' once more. The openingspost states 'discussion thread for all things lens related'. You can interpret that like me: that it's mainly about discussion or you can interpret it that you can post anything lens related... such as images shot with one. Tbh, imho for one single individual shot you can make just about any lens look cool and interesting given the right circumstances... which doesn't necessarily tell me a whole lot about the lens itself and more about the shooter. Where I can draw conclusions from is when a direct comparison is being made in the exact same spot, same conditions, really getting a feel for how different lenses handle the exact same scenario. Which is why I liked Kye's most recent post! That really gives me something to go on! Or atleast with some context to go with it. Like Zach's... so.... what am I looking at? So... this is a lens test? With a 'FD 35-105 F/3.5'. Mmmkai... do we have to guess the focal length and f-stop? Is it a riddle? Do I need to download the image and see if it's got some EXIF details? Maybe a hidden easter egg message? Just what are we looking for in this image? Sharpness? Bokeh character? Flare handling? Contrast? Chromatic aberration? What conclusion or further investigation do we want to follow from it? Or... is it just a cute cat pic you wanted to share? Like... with Andy Lee for example, we'd have discussions about micro contrast and low contrast looks and so on. And he gave me/us examples of that Tokina RMC which actually led me to buy one for myself. Now, cool shots are cool shots, no doubt, don't get me wrong, nice going, sick, dope! I would give 'em a hardy like on Flickr/IG. But without any real context, I'm not sure what I'm looking at/what to look for/do with/take away from it myself? Anyways. This is allayalls place, I'm just passing through, so feel free to do as you please, I was just noticing a trend and thought that if there's an apparant urge to share, which is really cool that there is, because seeing one another's work is inspiring and really gives you an appreciation for the work they put in, maybe it can thrive as its own thing.

Absolutely not! Bonus points for interesting and strange choices!! If you're super-keen, there are medium-format lenses available (and even large format lenses too!!) so you could get a medium-format to FF speed-booster or even a medium-format camera Oh, I don't know... put 135mm on a FF and make it part of a 2X anamorphic setup (I have no idea if this can happen, but I'm telling this story so whatever...) and you'll have a widescreen 67.5mm horizontal FOV. Sounds pretty good to me! @leslie might do it!!

Since I am as guilty as Zach (more so even) I'd like to make a formal apology to your fingers to be forced to work a little harder, or maybe your eyes to witness my putrid images. The rationale for posting frame grabs, or stills, is to show how these lenses work in the real world and to show other readers how they look in combination with different cameras. As much as I enjoy reading about lenses, the courier font doesn't completely express the qualities of a lens in a visual medium. And as awesome as a link to every single new lens that gets released, from every single Chinese optics company is, I'd prefer to see how your images look with said lens and whatever camera you use... then I could truly get an idea about the quality of the lens for my possible use. I also think the lens section has been a little corner of this site where the technical merit of gear is put on the back burner for the optical and mechanical grace of manipulating light, so in that regard, I appreciate Geoff CB's and Noone's and Heartless's and BTM's and Kye's and Zach's, and etc... contributions as an artistic learning tool. But I learn more about a lens on Flickr than I do staring at a DXOmart chart... if you prefer charts and links, I again apologize. However, what I find odd about your comment is... if you would rather discuss lenses in a different manner, I don't think anybody is stopping you from starting a discussion that interests you more. In fact, the lens section is my favorite place in the forum, so I'd be happy if there were more discussions.

@kye did an amazing job on the openingspost. It's got all the info!

Don't count on it being all that

Thats on my 24in monitor, it may be more visible on a 55in 4K TV. I'll say at 24in there is really no difference between a 4k and HD monitor.

Exactly on my birthday! Seems a nice B-day gift BTW... ; -)

First image leaked. Mode dials changed, looks like the E-M1 MK II approach. Grip redesigned, pc sync port gone. And looks sexy. Very interested in this one.

I think a Ryzen 3700x is already sufficient, then move budget to gpu, ram, nvme, ssd

I feel like an intruder perhaps going to a reduser.net site. Like I should put on some Ppe gear ? in case I catch something. The 85mm is tempting then I could do the anamorphic thing again. I was looking at something Russian but couldn't seem to find an adapter for it. So I'll keep searching

This is true 100%. So if anyone cares mainly for H264/H265, maybe an i9 9900K is the best solution. If anyone cares for pure computational power (or even Red raw) then a Ryzen 3900X is maybe the best platform right now (7nm, PCIe 4.0, more cores/threads). I am looking for such a Ryzen build, but I have one verys serious problem. Can't find the 3900X anywhere! And when it is available, is around 600€.

Definitely a good short (dialogue isn't cliche), but something about the actual speed dating at the bar felt fake. It felt like the bar was empty and it was just them two (+ camera man) with added fake ambient noise. In terms of crew, other than the camera man, how many people were there?

Amazing! Thanks so much for taking the time to help me out! Much appreciated!

Great job!!! Well written and really funny. The sex montage was hilarious. I love the look from the Micro. I’m glad I decided to hold on to mine for a little while longer.

I have been playing with that method lately. I work in constantly changing lighting conditions and I haven't been super thrilled with the results so far, but I am confident that I will find something that works well. I even made a LUT that matches the GH5s ... so many excuses to play

Ah! Sorry - my brain just caught up

Yours

I played with 10-bit vs 12-bit vs 14-bit on my Canon 700D with ML RAW and didn't see that much difference, so I just decided that 10-bit was enough. Not to say there wasn't any difference, because there was, but it was fairly slight I thought. Then again, not that much DR with Canon and I didn't shoot many actual videos with it, so a few caveats. You might already be doing this, but are you taking your final exports and creating LUTs to try in-camera? (your wording wasn't clear above, so not sure if that's what you say you're already doing..) You might also be able to take one of the standard LUTs, apply some additional corrections, and then export that as a LUT to use?

The XT3 can use H264 or H265 video codecs, plus it can do H264 "All Intra" (IOW no interframe compression) which might be easier to edit, but the bitrate is higher. The key for all those except maybe All Intra is you need hardware accelerated decode/encode, plus editing software that supports that. The most common and widely-adopted version is Intel's Quick Sync. AMD CPUs do not have that. Premiere Pro started supporting Quick Sync relatively recently, so if you have an updated subscription that should help. Normal GPU acceleration doesn't help for this due to the sequential nature of the compression algorithm. It cannot be meaningfully parallelized to harness hundreds of lightweight GPU threads. In theory both nVidia and AMD GPUs have separate fixed-function video acceleration hardware similar to Quick Sync which is bundled on the same die but functionally totally separate. However each has had many versions and require their own software frameworks for the developer to harness those. For these reasons Quick Sync is much more widely used. The i7-2600 (Sandy Bridge) has Quick Sync but that was the first version and I'm not sure how well it worked. Starting with Kaby Lake it was greatly improved from a performance standpoint. In general, editing a 4k H264 or H265 acquisition codec is very CPU-bound due to the compute-intensive decode/encode operations. The I/O rate is not that high, e.g, 200 mbps is only 25 megabytes per sec. As previously stated you can transcode to proxies but that is a separate (possibly time consuming) step.

You just have to look through the topic's history. Start by page 1 if you will, lots of wisdom being exchanged (mostly due to Andy Lee). More discussion, actual in-depth lens tests, comparisons, recommendations, news... not just unsolicited dumps of random pics and framegrabs. If it comes up in discussion, sure, show and tell. But this topic is slowly turning into Flickr. I like Zach just fine, but maybe if you feel like sharing some of your work in the form of stills and grabs, we should have a topic just for that?

Did you watch the video? This is quite different. Panasonic does work on sensor development. Where is RED's "large team" of sensor designers that RED claims to have?? Actually, forget about "large team", where is one person who works in their sensor design team doing that? Rob Hummel doesn't know of anyone! Can you help me find someone? I'd love to read what papers they've published, and patents they've got, over their career. Again, NOT AT ALL THE SAME Not even in the same galaxy. Because not only was RED happy to share it, they shouted this proudly from the rooftops: "WE MADE THIS! OUR BIG SENSOR DESIGN TEAM! HERE MADE IN THE USA!" etc etc etc If they just refused to say, like Samsung not admitting to Sharp panels, then I'd have greater respect for RED than them lying (and contradicting their own lies! Because they can't even keep that straight). For sure, that parent is hell shady! And totally wrong. But all these other videos from Jinni Tech, like this latest one, are demonstrating the depth of RED's ethical character.... or rather lack of it! At every turn, wherever he seems to look and start digging, we discover more lies and unethical behavior from RED. Makes you question EVERYTHING about RED, have they ever been able to say anything truthfully? Will they ever in the future? If Jim Jannard or Jarred Land tells me it is raining, I'm going to make damn sure to look out the window to double check!

When did this topic become a 'let's post a bunch of stills' one? Like... elaborate lens tests and comparisons, awesome. Someone curious about a lens, sure support your argument for the lens by illustrating it with examples. But, maybe open an own topic for framedumps (which sounds like it would be a cool one) so we can keep somewhat of an overview here? jm2c

Well, maybe Alan Turing heirs should apply for royalties from RED or Apple too?

I'm shocked you don't understand that is an INCREDIBLE BROAD PATENT which you just described, which should never ever have been granted in the first place.

A very nice video was posted by Matteo Bertoli with most of it done using the Ultra-wide lens in 4k60p and then conformed to 24p. i would strongly recommend ready the details on how he created the footage (stabilization, iPhone Camera App, Resolve + LUT), along with comments on the output quality.

Raw is for amateurs that can't get the shot right in 8 bit.... ?

Here are a few more frames from some lens tests. Canon 35mm f/2 IS... Samyang 50mm 1.4...

A couple of weeks ago a lady noticed my GH5 / VMP rig and asked me about it. Turns out she runs a small studio and is looking to replace her PD170 and "go HD". We spoke for some time and it was obvious from the conversation that she hasn't been looking at the tech for quite some time. Her three concerns were 1) no-one was offering any money at all for selling her PD170 (people were offering $20 and 'novelty' amounts like that), 2) she wanted to digitise all her tapes, and 3) she wanted to get new equipment and was admiring how small the GH5 was. Really goes to show how we on these forums are in a little bubble of 4k/6k 10-bit etc, when there are people out there who haven't gone HD yet, and we did the $200 challenge with HD cameras!

The era of Raw is around the corner, now that Nikon is implementing it others should follow I know this has been said before but id rather more DR than pixels

I don't mind waiting another 6 months for the GH6, and I hope they add the following: 1. ToF to make up for the crappy DFD in video. 2. Internal electronic ND. 3. Usable ISO upto 12800. 4. That new 8k photo mode in 10-bit in place of the 6k photo mode on the GH5. 5. A compressed RAW codec for when you need it for well paying jobs ?

that guy always has nice vids

Yep, perhaps some component is not holding up to what they expected and they prefer to play it safe and do a hardware upgrade. On every site people have been complaining about companies giving more features if need, even for a paid upgrade. You have a company doing it, and giving you the ultimate format and people are still complaining. I mean Nikon just brought 10 bit (full frame) and raw to the dslr mirrorless market price segment and those guys are still complaining. You would believe Nikon just removed 24p in their latest camera release or still sticking to 8bit video.

People are real life jokes, so you are getting RAW video from an update and don't have to buy a new camera and you are still complaining. The z6 is like half the cost of that Panasonic and is still beyond most people capabilities as shown by the video above. Have you seen the size of the BM apsc only 6k camera. Tell me about it's superb autofocus and battery life for video... and photo. Oh yeah, Nikon should do a video camera and forget there core market for some people on the internet that I am sure has a valid reason to need a raw full frame camera for less than 3k. They are really ripping their customers.