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I shot a test with an Arri Alexa LF vs 65 to find out which one had better color reproduction. I filmed some dog poob, a real stress test to the sensor and the color science. Neither one of them made the poob look like it was a delicious strawberry. Then i did the same test again with my Olympus Pen EP2 and it gave me very similar results. I think the camera companies are just lazy and not doing their homework. I feel ripped now with my two Arris. The youtube test video hV2yvzYzix4 really shows the pain some testers like me were willing to go through, producing really challenging footage, so challenging to the eye.

I am starting to think that as well. As @Super8 is ignoring my questions and completely missing the point

That is the Ursa Mini 4.6k, completely different sensor from the Pocket 6k. Its a little hard to take you seriously when you say the Sony Venice looks like its colors are painted on. You aren't just arguing against people online when you say that, you are saying the people who engineered it must have had no idea what they are doing as well as the productions that use it.

Ok, my opinion is its crap. Do I get to see your links now?

You must have some proof of your client work no? Vimeo reel

What a bunch of nonsense. You think you know me but you don't know shit. I'm probably one of the most brand agnostic persons around here. While I have my preferences when it comes to camera companies for various subjective reasons, I started photography on Nikon equipment and still shoot film with them. Did a lot of work on the D750. I was one of the first here to go all-in the Fuji hybrid revolution with XT2. My favorite camera is my Leica M9P. I've owned the A7S2 and I also currently own a Sony FS7, my professional workhorse. Finally I won't hesitate to rent a RED/ARRI or whatever if budget/crew allows it. Oh and I won't even go into lens manufacturers. So you see trying to pigeonhole me as a Canon fanboy is pretty ridiculous. Its not cuz I enjoy a particular camera, that I hate others. I stand by my word about EOS R. As flawed as it may seem, for my personal usage its a great hybrid. Laugh all you want.. IDGAF. I work within camera systems. The body is only one element.. That said, I never stated EOS R was perfect or better than any other camera. I only defended it against attacks of those that thought it was a useless POS. Most of whom never even picked one up. And that's one thing I don't understand in these forums is people talking shit about gear they have never touched or have any intention of using. That to me is true fanboyism. Cuz see you're attacking me for a camera I appreciate. It's so stupid man. Doesn't make me a Fanboy. It does however make you look like a Hater.

lol you are as much of a Canon fanboy than the Sony fanboy you mention. Even when Canon ridiculously failed deeply with the EOS R your were saying here on EOSHD how great it was. What a joke. Personally I don’t understand at all fanboyism for a camera brand. Who cares if it’s Sony Canon or Nikon, I couldn’t care less about the name. I am bashing what’s wrong, and praising good stuff. When the 5D2 was out I was applauding. That’s why I bought it. When the EOS R was out I was laughing hard. Sony did an excellent job with the A7III when it was out. That’s why I bought it. The R5 looks absolutely fantastic and will most likely get it to replace my A7III.

Never said that isn't the goal. But what is "best", how do you judge that? How do you assign a number to this, or is it just your subjective opinion?? (and is "best" a universal truth that is always true under all conditions? Or does the truth of what is "best" vary from project to project?) Yes, I'm sure if every production could shoot on an ARRI then they would! But often there are budget/time/workflow considerations which prevent that. How then do you determine which out of say Panasonic Varicam LT vs Sony FX9 has "best"? How do you determine which out of Panasonic S1H vs Kinefinity Terra 6K has "best"?

Actually, what I REALLY need in a camera is enough AI in it to warn me when the shot I am framing up looks like hot trash...

My camera of 2025 is likely to be the Leica SL as I'm pretty sure it won't be back from its repair at Leica until then.

My house, my rules.

The way things are going MY camera of 2025 will either be another A7s mark 1 or i get to play with Ansel Adams' camera as he shows me how to use it! I would just like an A7s type low light sensor with PDAF and built in NDs, by then 4k 24/25/30p will probably be what i am using and all i need.

You are comparing a camera that is 10 times the cost of the other one. It would be a schocker if it was the other way around. A comparison between an eos R and pocket 6K is a more fair comparison.

Show us your work please so we can learn from you.

Great so you got a link to some of your work for me to learn from?

spam.....

I knew Sony would flake on us... again. A7S3 is vapor ware. XDCAM managers are too afraid to give Alpha line the kind of power it would need to compete. They’re basically in limbo over that camera. Meanwhile Canon leapfrogged the whole industry and are going for the kill. Its funny listening to the R5 bashers, most of them shook fanboys. When Canon falls behind, they get ridiculed. If R5 had normal specs, they would say they are late to the party. Now that they’ve exceeded everyone’s expectations, they claim it’s overkill. In Japan 8K isn’t that far fetched, some channels are already broadcasting it. Apple has had 5K iMac’s for years, and I saw today on YT an 8K laptop review. Speaking of YT they already stream 8K content and it already looks pretty crazy on my 5K iMAc Pro. 8K will allow you to crop & get even better 4K. While nobody here really needs it, it’s still cool it’s there and trust me it will pave the way for other 8K cams, computers, monitors etc. And first and foremost content. 4K120 is also pretty damn sick considering 4K60 is still absent from most FF cams. I won’t even talk about internal RAW, ergonomics or CS.. Anyways it’s funny seeing how the tables have turned in just a generation gap!

New blog post - read it here

oh, and all cameras should have eND...(how could I possibly send them out to work without that!)

In 2025 my camera will head out to work according to whatever I've programmed it to do with whatever program I use to do that. My camera will the edit the footage perfectly so that my clients (mainly bots) can like me to fuck on whatever social network dominates in 2025. I, hopefully, will be somewhere nice and green with my family. My only connection with technology will be a message that says my client has paid me.

No it isn't blocked by RED. Blackmagic have internal "RAW" with BRAW. Sony can do something like that but can't / won't / haven't got the imagination, Actually my guess is they have stopped trying judging by the NAB announcement Powerpoint today.

Apparently it isn't subjective to @Super8! Although on what basis this is determined, "who knows??"

Lets move on from the catfighing. Color science preference is a pretty subjective field. Super8 I'm curious what do you find is so horrible about the BM P6K color science? I watched the footage and didn't notice any distinctive flaws. Personally I'd say all current gen cameras have pretty good CS. Sony still struggles in mixed lighting. Black Magic had tint problems on some previous gen models, but not anymore I think. Canon are renown for their skin tones. Shoot RAW or Log anyways if you wanna grade and add your own flavour.

Yes, 5 years is not really that long ago. Won't be a RADICAL leap forward in another 5 years. Assuming we see the Panasonic GH6 within the next year, then by 2025 we'll have the GH7 as the "current cutting edge model". What does that mean? Probably the GH7 will have 8K (but perhaps only 30fps 8bit) but will have the lowlight performance of a GH5S, and will have no crop 4K 120fps 10bit, with finally good AF? Might have some innovations with the body, such as 2x DIN connectors? (they're like "Mini BNC". One DIN for Timecode, and the other DIN for an independent "mini SDI" video output. Independent outputs, so you could make it clean, or with info overlayed, or with a LUT applied or not, all completely independent to what you're monitoring over the full size HDMI output. An important feature for professional sets) There will be a Panasonic "DMW-XLR2" as well, you'll have 2x full size XLR with 2x full size BNC connectors (one for monitoring, one for TC I/O), and a lemo connector too for passing DC power through. The GH7 will have 32bit audio recording as an option. There will also be a GH7S that gives us everything the GH7 has but no 8K (however its 4K will be even better lowlight than the GH7/GH5S is/was), but the GH7S keeps the IBIS, and does have eND. A Panasonic GH7S / Panasonic DMW-XLR2 would be a dreamy combo, while still (I hope!) not being a totally unreasonably unrealistic scenario to hope for by 20205.

We are talking about 2025 spec not 2020. Internal ProRes in 2025? You want to edit huge files on a 2015 laptop in 2025? H.266 is the future.

And if someone else's experience and research is different to yours? I am NOT a colourist or even a full on videographer but if what you say is true, there would not BE any other cameras used for ANYTHING that required colour. So, are you a professional colourist?

We can see fake dof with phones, iPhone HDR blending is sick. Both needs a lot of improvement, but your cinema camera will be your smartphone by 2025?

Pretty sure the A7s III will still not be announced by 2025 🤣 Canon will stay with 8k till 2030, skip 16k en jump ahead to 32k!

You can also get a C300 MK2 for around 4-5 grand at this point. I personally love the C series cameras. Incredibly easy to use, no fuss, really nice color, small files.

I think everyone freaked out about 8k because its Canon. Who would have thought Canon be the one to spearhead into 8k. Even if its not really needed right now.

Yeah, I was thinking about this. Part of me thinks that even if they internally recognize the opportunity of marketing this camera to a new segment of the market, they’d never pitch it as a more affordable, lower tier option because they don’t want to erode their high end brand image. Marketing it solely as a crash-cam/drone camera for high end work makes sense in that way. On the other hand they were also known as disruptors in the past so I could see where they could also market the camera as such.

@Andrew Reid Holy cow, is that a Canon FD 24mm 1.4! You lucky man! What a pretty outfit that is. Awesome! I remember when those were around 600usd on the bay and I was waiting until they would turn up for half of that. Not waiting for that to happen anymore:)

The Tokina is also a very pretty looking outfit. Weird me, that I gave up on using it after messing around with a lackluster EF to Nikon adapter. On the other hand I have an awesome FD to SL adapter from the Polish adapter manufacter which has often been recommended by Andrew and others. I am enjoying the beauty of the 20mm Canon FD on the large sensor of my S1. Though more sillyness with my Tevidon lenses, which are still in urge of an adapter. I read the 35 and 70mm even cover s35 format. Beautiful lenses laying around should not be allowed on this thread.:)

Difficult not to agree although RED have consistently claimed that Komodo is primarily a niche camera to support other RED cameras (drone, crash, gimbal etc.) and is not intended as an A camera for those outside the Holy Circle.

Andrew, it may be a little off-topic...but if you have enough time on your hands during lockdown it might be worthwhile to create a Sigma FP guide like you did for the Panasonic cameras. I'm awaiting delivery of an FP, and I can already tell the learning curve on this camera will likely exceed anything else I've ever used. So far I've found very little info on specifics of set up, basic workflow with the cinema DNG files and best practices for using the camera in the field. (Apart from the 30 or so pages in the EOSHD forum re: grading FP RAW files, comparisons to BM RAW etc. that seemed to hijack one of the main forum threads for the FP.) Any other resources you might suggest for a Sigma FP newbie?

It is clear why RED did it. RED wants to target a more "consumer" market with Komodo, which means choosing a mirrorless mount is sensible. I'd argue a MFT Mount would be best, but perhaps RED wants to avoid the marketing confusion of using a S35 sensor behind a MFT Mount (sadly far far far too many people don't understand that this is possible) and maybe also the Komodo sensor can't do this? (as Komodo has a somewhat larger than normal sensor for S35, maybe it is just ever so slightly too big now for MFT?) So what is next best? E / X / Z / L / RF mounts of course. Sony seems to clearly not want competitors using E Mount, seeing as how Kinefinity only offers a dumb E Mount. I guess (hope!) RED went to all of these others to see who else was open to collaborating (Fuji and Nikon are fools if they squashed down the proposal! And of course L should welcome anybody who wishes to join). Now what is in it for Canon? Well, Canon has had a bumpy road on the path to mirrorless domination, they're at risk they might not achieve this like they did with EF. Canon had a false start with the now soon to be dead end EF-M mount, this is going to come back to bite them. Sony E Mount has a massive head start over Canon. Fujifilm clearly is doing better in the APS-C world than Canon's APS-C. Nikon is part of the historical Duopoly, so of course is going to be a threat for Canon, and so far I'd argue Nikon has been doing a better job here in their roll out (certain when you look at sales of bodies only sorted by best sellers / most popular on B&H / Adorama then Nikon mirrorless is ranking strongly vs Canon. Of course with the Canon R5 /R6 pairing I bet Canon expects they'll race ahead of Nikon, but Nikon won't be standing still either. Am sure in late 2020 / early 2021 we'll see a gangbuster release from Nikon in response) Who is going to be #1 / #2 in the mirrorless world 10yrs from now is still very much up in the air! Could be anybody. Thus I find it very understandable that Canon could be considering wild card strategies to help RF Mount get a jump over the competition, and if Komodo is a massive success then that will go a long way to cementing RF Mount as a defacto standard in the videography/cinema world. And Canon in the video world isn't really a direct direct competitor for RED like some others. RED's direct competitors are more like ARRI (who RED are trying to attack from below) and Kinefinity (who is attacking RED themselves from below). While Canon's direct competitors are Sony (the classic F3/FS700 vs C300mk1, FS100 vs C100, then FS7 vs C300mk2, C200 vs FS5, etc) or Panasonic (C200/C300mk2 vs Varicam LT / EVA1). So pairing up with RED just for Komodo has relatively little downside, and a potentially significant upside. If I was running Canon, then RED using RF Mount for Komodo makes so much sense that RED doesn't even have to offer anything back in exchange. It is already legal to use 5:1 compression of raw, it is 6:1 compression and beyond which is covered by RED's Patent.

The great thing about the Fp is that it is plug-and-play, and works with Macs, and even smartphones whereas the Canon DSLRs are Windows only and the software is beta. Yes, it would be nice to have more support for USB video class connections on future cameras, as Sigma has pioneered.

@jgharding just keep using the emotive color Luts, they're not an exact match like they are with the GH5, but I use them on the S1 all the time and it looks awesome. Can get both cameras to match quite easily with minimal tweaking

Ive used Nice709 alot Even wirh 1dx miii works like charm

On some shoots, that is almost precisely what happens. I've worked on projects where they shoot a scene on expired 16mm because of its feel rather than accuracy, or where we chose a profile that gave us the look we wanted while being completely inaccurate. And yes, I've also been on shoots where they strive for 100% accuracy. Many times those projects sucked, because the people in charge were more concerned with technicalities and test charts than they were with evaluating what worked for their vision. I don't mean to say that those kinds of projects will always be bad. I'm sure you have your workflow and that it works for you--as do a lot of people. That's just been my experience on micro budget projects. There is a huge difference between understanding the color that you are capturing, and always striving for real-world accuracy in 100% of situations. Just as any animator or CG artist who uses the same colors and tools but has no real world reference anyway.

Can't get better image quality than the pocket 6k or 4k for the money.

Yeah, I’ve been wondering about this partnership as well. My first guess was Canon wanted to have compressed raw, but then again if that’s true they aren’t implementing a very high compression ratio that would make sense in a prosumer camera. As far as competition on the camera body front goes, I had heard once that companies made most of their money on their lenses and wondered if that’s what they are most interested in selling. Any truth to that? Maybe they see the Komodo as a way to sell more RF lenses and better establish it.

@Devon, I am not Andrew, but a gray market camera simply boils down to a camera without warranty, so you're getting a discount for the risk of likely having to pay repairs or replacements out of your own pocket if your copy should be defective. Postscript - Sigma very clearly states that their warranty does not include gray market cameras: https://www.sigmaphoto.com/article/important-information-regarding-gray-market-sigma-products/ "As of January 1, 2017, any product that is not imported by Sigma Corporation of America or purchased from an unauthorized Sigma USA Dealer will not be serviced under warranty regardless of the service required. The Sigma Corporation of America Service department will service these products for a minimum $250 charge in addition to the required parts and labor charges at the owner's expense."

Yeah they are indeed both great. The image isn't 4k and the bitrate is low and only 8-bit 4.2.0, but if you're not grading and need quick edit and delivery, they are just perfect. Just think an event or wedding, 1 on tripod and other handheld. Shoot WideDR, no grading needed. Small very sharp 1080p files for quick edit on the go (on low budget laptop). Export to 1080p or upscale to 4k for delivery.

The tokina 2.6-2.8 is definitely one of my favorites and probably one of the lenses I've had the longest. I have no intention of selling mine, it's just so great. I'm still very happy with it. I have gotten other zooms that I use a bit more regularly these days (Nikon 28-70 2.8 and Samsung 16-50 2-2.8), but that tokina is just epic.

The Tokina is the lens I always seem to go back to. I think this is my 3rd copy, I'll probably never let it go again. I paid much less than £200 each time. I sold the Sigma zooms because I rarely used them after my most recent copy. Mechanically it's a dream at its price point. The lens doesn't extend and the focus ring has hard stops. It would make a great cine-mod lens. It also has a short throw, good for handheld pulling. The zoom ring is quite stiff, you won't be zooming mid shot. It feels well built, it'll survive a few knocks. The AF system seems to be broken on every one of these I've used, but that usually means they sell at a cheaper price. Optically, it's not the sharpest lens in the world but also not noticeably soft even wide open on a SB. This is where I sort of miss the sigma zooms. It also doesn't focus very close (0.7m) 28mm on the lens really sings when filming people, really wish I could get a bit closer. The lens also isn't par focal, but its not far off, it only needs minor adjustments. Breathing is very well controlled. On the wide end, the lens distorts a touch more than a modern lens, but I quite how it falls off. The lens flares really change through the focal length, I always experiment with the zoom when there's flares. Around 35mm if one of my favourites, you get some cool thin red rings. The lens flares very easily, I like it for narrative stuff but always have some black wrap or gaff tape on hand for corporate shoots. It's such an all rounder zoom lens to have in the bag, just enough character for narrative work but can also clean up when it needs to.

Best thing about that lens is how natural the falloff is and the lack of breathing. This is an older Test I did with it, jump to 4:12 to see samples and how "smooth" it is.

Found some shots taken with this lens on a old CCD sensor. 48x36 crop

So, I almost sold this lens again. As addictive as collecting lenses can be, the utilitarian approach can be just as addictive. Luckily, I came to my senses before the lens sold. Here's another shot from the 35mm 1.4 at f/2 that I processed with an Alexa conversion LUT...

Is the 18-135 the stm version? when the lighting conditions are good its my favorite handheld run and gun lens for the c100 due its light weight and stabilization. It also can use the face tracking autofocus. see 1min mark below.