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Maybe Canon will come out with an ice pack option:

Everyone is lining up to buy the camera purely based on specs. There are so many intangibles yet to be learned: Rolling Shutter Dynamic Range Highlight Roll-off Detail in the shadows (Are the blacks crushed?) Flavor of CLOG How strong is the low pass filter (Maybe great for skin, but maybe not so good for when you need detail.)? ISO limitations before noise becomes a factor (Especially important when shooting at high frame rates like 120p) Record length limitations I really hope this camera is as good as it looks on paper. I want one if the quality of the footage is there! But what happened to the Canon cripple hammer? Is it gone or does it still exist.

While 20 mins overheating times in certain modes are a bummer and could be a problem for some people, I for one, am glad they took the “lets put the feature in” versus saying “heat limitations wouldn’t have allowed it” and released something less exciting or groundbreaking. They would haven been lambasted for it either way. It’s a lose-lose for them and they made the better decision here in my humble opinion. Wether the headline is “R5 falls short: only offers 4K60p cropped” or “R5 has potential to overheat when recording 8K RAW(!) 4K120p(!), or oversampled 4K from 8K HQ mode(!). The later headline is forgivable!

The R5 will only overheat in 8K, 4K60p & 4K HQ. It shouldn't have any problems in regular 4K24p/30p. Calling it unusable is a little extreme. What other hybrid camera can even approach these specs? 8K/4K120p FF no crop, DPAF2, RAW, 10-bit 4:2:2 internal. Besides we've had 30mn recording limits for years due to EU laws. Hardly an issue for me personally.. That said, if Sony can do better, bring it on!

Sounds like this camera would turn them into an omelette if they did.

Why are we bashing Canon for including 8k raw INTERNALLY? They also could have just left it at that, but also included All-I and IPB in 8K - a pretty amazing inclusion. Add on to that that they do give you all of the great internal 10-bit codecs (All-I and IPB) in 4K and HD and up to 120fps in 4K, why are we complaining? If you don't want the giant file sizes, just use one of the other modes. Solved AND you still get 10-bit 422. If you want the highest quality and don't care about thousands of dollars of storage, use raw and All-I. Or use every other camera manufacturer (outside of Panasonic) and just shoot in 8-bit 420 up to 30fps or to an external recorder. What Canon has done with these two cameras is pretty mind-blowing. I thought the S1H would be king (and in some ways it still is) for another year or two, but these cameras are close to top of the heap. Yes, I would have preferred the Canon R6 to have 4k raw at much smaller file sizes, but hard to complain when they have given us so much in a seriously compact form factor. I love the S1H, but it won't ever be my photo camera due to size and weight, so the R5 could easily become both video and photo for me (or the R6).

Micro HDMI is a big disappointment. Especially due to the 30min record time requiring an external recorder for interviews etc. Even more so if that's the only way to get intra frame files. Lack of ALL-I in 4K 24p was surely possible if it can shoot IPB in 60p. That's annoying. Though 170mbps h265 is a fairly beefy bitrate, even for 10bit, isn't it? Will have to wait and see what motion looks like on clips. As has been said the big test is going to be rolling shutter. In some situations the IBIS will help with this in comparison the the 1DXIII but it'll still look like shit if it's that bad. Oh and not recording video simultaneously to both cards defeats the purpose of dual slots for filmmakers! Hopefully SmallRig or someone will come out with a discreet little clamp that solves the Micro HDMI issue.

This is what I've gleaned on the issue over the years... To test motion cadence effectively you need to mount the two cameras on a dual mount tripod bar and ensure you have ,if not the same lens, at least the same focal length one on each. For a test subject, you need something that can move of its own accord so you will see motion within a static framing but also that has enough movement to exit the frame so you can pan to track it and see the effects on a moving framing. The ideal subject for this when it comes to testing motion cadence is, by common consent, a unicorn. The ideal speed for the unicorn to be moving is from a slow walk up to a gentle trot. Most unicorns are lazy but skittish, so a few party poppers will enable you to encourage this range of movement. On the camera itself, make sure that the power draw isn't effecting motion cadence by using a fully charged battery and that you have mojo set to 10 or boost if your camera has it. Depending on the brand of camera that you are using, you should also ensure that you have fully topped up your Koolaid levels. 😉 On a more serious note, this is a decent thread with some informed discussion about it and also contains a link to a side by side video between real film, Alexa, Red and the Sony F65. https://cml.news/g/cml-raw-log-hdr/topic/16427778?p=Created,,,20,1,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,16427778

The fact of the matter is that in 2020, 4K RAW with no overheating would be much more useful for many professionals and the high resolution sensors should be given to specialty lines and not the workhorse FF body. Now you have a superb stills camera, that will suffer from sub-optimal 4K modes and a "halo" 8K (RAW) mode that is going to be to burdensome for a lot of users to take full advantage off.

It's specs are obviously impressive, but what do specs matter if the camera is functionally limited? If you constantly need to give the camera a break to use these "groundbreaking" features, how is that practical? Innovation is great, but it should be fully realized, not half baked and just thrown out there because you're trying to undermine the competition. I hope once we are able to really see this camera in action that it exceeds expectations.

It's hilarious. For years Canon have been the conservative ones, telling us they are not doing this or that for reliability reasons or waiting to get it bullet proof. Holding back on video specs to avoid reliability problems has been the Canon mantra! Then they do a complete U-turn on reliability just to put an 8K badge on the box 😂 The EOS R5 is a pro's camera. It isn't a $1000 A6300 toy. If it lets you down on a shoot that is a total disaster and something no pro would consider working around. How would you work-around it anyway? An icepack? A nice breeze? Put it in the same bucket as the lobster in the catering tent? I think some people are in denial He hasn't even used it yet

Nitpicking? Don't shoot the messenger! It's hardly nitpicking if the camera goes off in the middle of a shoot is it? What happens if you lose a shot and have to down tools for 10 minutes, and then can only go for a few minutes more before the same happens again? How in any way is that fit for purpose professionally or for paid work? And for live stuff, documentaries, interviews, it's a complete no-go, even in 4K. I'd much rather have a fan in there like the Panasonic S1H and know it is fit for paid work, or even Netflix. Can you imagine the EOS R5 getting Netflix approval, only for the entire production to be downed countless times in one session due to the overheating problems?

Tell us, you're an alien. Or you were living in a cave long before Covid-19 afflicted the world. I saw it on Newsshooter.com too. I am curious how much longer it lasts with it, and how it affects the image. Suddenly, I feel, all of us Panasonic M43 users take reliability for granted. The fact that the GH5/GH5s can record for hours, like other GH cameras before them. No overheating rubbish. We can even record whole concerts with the battery grip, even popping one battery out while the one in the camera continues (and swapping between SD cards, since we can remember, like 3-3.5 years ago).

Clearly environmental factors play a role... Andrew K @5:06 says that over the three days he had with the R5, the camera did not overheat.

Watch Sony overheat at 21 minutes just to one up Canon.

On film set the cameras are always on. They only are powered off on breaks for lunch and diner (sometimes). But they are usually always on.

Have to say I see the high data rate of the 4K 120fps as a positive. It's 4X the bitrate of 24p, which is exactly what it should be if it's going to look as good. I'd be complaining if it was less! When looking at the table, the data for 4 minutes of recording time looks huge but then that's actually 16+ minutes of footage. Personally I only shoot short clips in 120p anyway. Though the fact DPAF works in 120p means it'll be an absolute killer gimbal camera and that'll mean people wanting to do long takes.

Peter Mckinnon confirmed overheating issues on 4K 120 at 7:55

The Canon Cripple Hammer lives!

I have a few cameras that reportedly vary with how well they handle motion cadence. I say reportedly because it's not something I have learned to see, so I don't know what I'm looking for or what to pay attention to. I'm planning to do some side-by-side tests to compare motion cadence - can you please tell me: 1) what to film that will highlight the good (and bad) motion cadence of the various cameras, and 2) what to look for in the results that will allow me to 'spot' the differences between good and bad. Thanks. I'm happy to share the results when I do the test. I'll also be testing out if there's some way to improve the motion cadence of the bad cameras, and what things like the Motion Blur effect in Resolve does to motion cadence.

And this here sucks even more - so even after shutting the camera off, and waiting 20 minutes, you will only get another 8 minutes recording time:

At least they readily admit the overheating unlike sony.

Bring it on. Internal 10bit ProRes 422 (HQ and LT) GH5S oversized low light sensor. Next gen of IBIS Phase-detect AF. Under $2k. Now THAT is something to look forward to. Forget the £4000 fancy pants hand warmer.

I mean...sigh...this is not the end of the world, I guess. You "CAN" still use the R5 for events if you plan it carefully. Stage play - Use 2 R5's and start one 10 min later than the other. This allows one to force time stop before the other. Then just stager the record start/stops back and forth between them. Your kids school singing play - Time your record stop when some other kid is singing to as to make sure your time is rationed in favor of your kids performance. Wedding - Plan in advance with the priest. Setup a hand signal to let him know you are stopping. This triggers him to tell the audience...."we will now have a moment of silence for the bride and groom"...assuming the room is not hot, you can stop/start again without missing anything. See?....the R5 "IS" doable if you PLAN your work and RATION your time wisely. CT

Dude it doesn't matter if you can't shoot! Dead camera on set. Dead camera at wedding. Excuse me priest! HALT the ceremony! My EOS R5 has overheated!

Rolling shutter isn't a single figure, but a range that goes from good to bad to awful. How it sits compared to others will and should be judged. As for whether is makes sense to everyone being irrelevant, er no. Its very relevant. And we are not talking about making sense. We are talking about a tool that has features that are useful to video shooting and issues that could potentially affect video shooting. This is relevant. An incredible piece of technology is in no doubt. A good price is down to where you buy it and how important the camera could be for your work. The hype is also in no doubt. Some of us would like to look beyond the hype. 😉

If I had the money, this looks a nice camera and much of the market it is aimed at will LOVE it. The R5 is ridiculous to me (more a look what we can do type thing than something most people can actually use as things go). Of course you CAN get the R5 and not/hardly use its headline features but that is a large tax to pay for that. Next up, I expect Sony to both surprise and disappoint and I think Sony really needs an A7iv against the R6 (for actual sales) more than it needs a A7siii against the R5 (for status).

He then says in next sentence that he hasn't had the chance to record for a very long time 😂 And that Canon hadn't put a recording limit on it. Which isn't true. Besides it's the usual marketing video, so he ain't saying what modes, how long he recorded in 8K and 4K for, what the ambient temps were (looks fucking freezing from the location) or any other meaningful info that would have helped users to know the score. Typical hype piece.

Well I dont think I will ever run into the problem. I dont shoot long clips + where I live the temperature rarely exceeds 23 degrees.

What about enviromental temperature, yes in the desert you will overheat quickly, this does not mean it will overheat in a siberian winter too. This should be tested in realworld environments to see how bad it is

Officiant: I now pronounce you hus... Video guy: WAIT! OVERHEATED! GIVE ME 10 TO LET IT COOL DOWN?!

For years Canon have been saying this is why they don't push the video specs to the limit. Reliability is key, blah blah! And they suddenly do a U-turn for marketing reasons!!

Well, of course Canon finds a way to screw things up, wouldn't be Canon otherwise Why wouldn't they simply implement active cooling? Even the S1H does

Yup,...that heat has to go somewhere. Without a fan, how else were they supposed to move it out of the body? Some people claimed that Canon developed some kind of new magic metal heat pipe tied to an invisible heat system. To most of us here, this was absolutely expected. Lumix did the right thing buy using a REAL active cooling system for unlimited 6k recording. Something else. Canon and Sony can allow their sensors to run hot. But, hot sensors are NOISY sensors. More heat causes more noise. Cool sensors are cleaner sensors. This is why most large sensor camcorders have fans. To keep their hot sensors running cooler and cleaner. Major screw up Canon. Let's see how that R6 runs.

Thanks : ) Seems a win-win and the top dreamy one for now. What misses there? They've listened after all, isn't it? ; ) I feel myself tempted to buy one : -)

Same data rate as the sigma fp, but at 8k dci instead of 4k Only time will tell if the internal storage will get cheaper soon, good thing they already have 2tb cards for it.

Well it’s all interesting...but that is as far as I am going to go right now. And until Spring 2021. This year has been shit for work and if the remaining jobs go ahead, it’s still only max 25% turnover. This is the biggest decision maker at this time but for now, XT3 is all I can afford and need. The lack of both a dedicated stills/video switch is not so great for the hybrid wedding shooter and nor is the (lack of) ability to write video to the second card, both of which the XT4 can do. So I am going to sit on my backside, watch with interest what Sony bring out, see if Panny bring the mythical GH6 into being and my prime interest, see if Fuji can bring an XH2 to market by April latest next year. Plus the real world samples, tests and reviews of course.

Just watched Peter’s R5 promo video/inspiration piece. Purely looking at the footage... Not going to lie...all the footage looked pretty damn good. All with DPAF. Will be interesting to see a deep dive into the image. I’m sure there are things not to like, but for YouTube/vimeo delivery...looks very nice. Overheating issues it seems. I wonder how bad they are. We finally have 4K120p in a mirrorless camera!

Dynamic range looked bad in the videos not sure if it’s my feed or what. It almost looked like HLG mapping with wrong mapping

It would be nice to have a GH5S with IBIS. I wonder what they will call the G9 successor. Panasonic G10 was a low-end early camera under the G1. G100 we know about and it tarnishes the entire brand 🙂 So G... what? Whatever it's called, as the main stills flagship for Micro Four Thirds, a G9 successor will leave room for GH6 to go low-megapixel, good low light like GH5S rather than the 20MP GH5... That is, unless they choose to go down the 8K route!

Here's one more, with a slower move- I feel like I see micro jitters in 'IBIS- Boost Off' 'IBIS+DIS-Boost On' looks best to me.

Here is my quick test I just did with firmware 1.02 and the WR 35 f2 lens. Honestly, I can't tell which mode is working best here. Am I moving too fast to see it?

Hello! Couldn't give a crap about internal or external raw video or 8k or much grading. Tried f-log. Hated it. Tried HLG, ditto. Cooked up my own recipe for getting it 'right' in camera (or at 90% of where I want it to be) and the result is start in the morning and finish in the afternoon, export, upload, clients happy. This is exactly what I, the self-confessed not a 'serious filmmaker' wants and needs which is why I like and use Fuji over anything else. I'm not exactly dripping in cash, especially not this year, but could otherwise comfortably run to a S1H's or even Canon's new R5's if I felt those manufacturers offered what I want and need. But the simple fact is they are overkill for 'hybrid weddingographers' (TM) like myself. Partly what my post the other day about Pro-Mist filters was about. I'm not interested in sitting behind my PC all day long and so the more I can get out of in camera, the better. I like Nikon's colour. I like Olympus's colour. I like Panasonic and Canon and Leica and...Fuji offer me what I like most though regardless of cost and I'm even sticking with XT3 over XT4 as it suits my needs better. And this is where I think Nikon need to get off their arse and that is offering a product to a particular market whatever market that may be. Possibly Nikon's biggest problem at the moment is not so much what Nikon are not doing, but what Fuji, Canon and Panasonic are doing and Sony were doing. They are another that need to up their game. Having said that, they all keep leapfrogging each other in various ways from time to time. XT4 is quite popular now despite a few IBIS and AF wobbles. Once the R6 and R5 are launched, it will be yesterday's news. More innovation and differentiation and products that people actually want to use please!

Almost nobody in its target customers buy that beast for video. And when it comes to still shooting there is no meaningful difference between D6 and 1DX. I don't know why you think every single camera that a camera maker releases should be a video workhorse. And a lot of video spec you assume "essential" is only appealing for a very small number of people. Honestly I've never heard a wedding photographer say "it would be nice if my camera had internal raw video recording". Most of them don't even know how to grade, and hate large files. I would instead bash Nikon for not offering cinematic picture profile, which is exactly what these people need.

This is exactly what sony has been doing the last 5 years. Why are you bashing nikon for an established business model?

Promised at launch. Didn't deliver. Z6 was not sub $2k at launch either. It was $2500. I won't go easy on Nikon for teasing early adopters with ProRes RAW and then sitting on their hands for a whole year. Besides ProRes RAW is a niche feature. The real story here is the competition S1 has internal 10bit V-LOG and same image quality as the $4000 S1H. This S1 costs same as Z6. The Fuji cameras also have 10bit F-LOG, and a lot more besides! Plus they actually feel like high quality, well designed photographic tools! Also the entry price for enthusiast full frame cameras is now around $2000. And for that you can get a Sigma Fp with internal 4K RAW recording, external ProRes RAW recording (12bit) and BRAW, in an even smaller form factor. The Z6 is a bit of an A7 III with a Nikon badge. What is the unique selling point? 8bit, no LOG, no 60p? It's not a bad camera by any means... For 2018. But now the market has moved on, Nikon's response is... incremental at best. EOS R5, EOS R6, Sony A7S II successor, Fuji X-T4 with 10bit 4K/60p, rumoured Fuji X-H2 and Panasonic GH6, hefty pro video S1H and wonderfully creative Sigma Fp are all myriad reasons not to bother with a Nikon Z6 re-released with a letter S! So I don't think I am being too harsh. If Nikon want my money from now on they'll have to think outside the box. How so? If we are talking HDMI ProRes RAW they were not actually first because they didn't ship it first. I could announce I am the first camera nerd on the moon. But never actually go. Does that make me a groundbreaking astronaut, or a bit of a dickhead?! Expensive pro cameras are exactly the kind of tools Nikon should be making. The 1D X Mark III destroys the D6. The GFX 100 is a peerless technological marvel. The R6 and what Sony do next will both be better than the Z6 or rumoured Z6S for video. The R6 might even be the same price. The Sigma Fp has FF 4K ProRes RAW. The main thing however for most people is the internal recording. Here the Z6 offers 8bit and no LOG! Panasonic S1 destroys it in this regard.

I bet Blackmagic have never had people streaking though their offices 🤔

This is in such contrast to Blackmagic. Whenever Ive had a problem with Resolve, I just email them and get a response within a day or two. And that's for a FREE product! Back a few years ago I even got a direct response from a senior engineer there.