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My thoughts: I don’t really get how people are upset that 8k raw overheats...why are you looking at a small mirrorless camera if you need long captures of 8k raw to begin with? Buy a real cinema camera. I think everyone is forgetting what this camera is and what was asked of Canon. Everybody is getting mad at canon for giving us what the majority of people asked. People wanted a canon mirrorless camera that was full frame with amazing IBIS, dual pixel autofocus, high megapixel count for photos , and could shoot 4K 4:2:2 10 bit uncropped, with a swivel screen. So, they did that. They did exactly that and more. So then they thought, well we could give them a full raw 8k readout of the sensor and have them record as long as they can before it overheats, better than holding it back. Also, we can throw them 4K 120 as well and also have them go as long as they can before we max out. I mean, might as well give them everything the camera can do, instead of just not unlocking it and having the magic lantern folks do it for us, right? So they threw in some crazy bonuses nobody was asking for and here we are, people bitching. The camera everyone wanted is here. The full frame autofocus beast with great IBIS, 10 bit, no crop, and great at photos true hybrid by canon is here and we are upset. Are we complaining that they have the overheating numbers written down? Because there is no way It’s a shock that 4K 60p 4:2:2 10 bit with dual pixel autofocus will overheat near the 40 minute mark...or are we surprised that 8k raw in a mirrorless full frame with IBIS engaged, dual pixel autofocus, and no crop in a small mirrorless overheats? I mean, what are we mad about here? This is the camera that everyone wanted. There are several frame rates and resolutions that Canon threw in that will be very useful within the limits of this specific camera and yes they have limits, but at least they are unlocked and not behind a magic lantern hack like the old 5D. As someone that shoots an equal mix of photography and video, this is a dream camera. I get a high megapixel camera and high quality video, with all of canons special sauce including their great autofocus and colors. I see no mention of limits for standard 4K 24p and 35 minutes of continuous 4K 60 is more than what I need. If it’s not for you, than that’s fine - keep waiting. There is so much negativity in the world right now, that I’m honestly not surprised that Canon finally doing something good gets shit on. I expect nothing less at this point.

This thread is insane. All this over a chart without any actual tests. I remember buying the a6300, a7s2 and a7r2 despite the internet overload about overheating, single card slots that no professional would ever use, 8-bit 4:2:0 video with blotchy zombie skin tones, crop on everything that's not 24p, only 4k30p and so on. I live in Florida and never had any issues despite using it on a gimbal all the time in the sun and shooting longer takes, it doesn't take much to swap batteries or turn the camera off when not in use, or not leav it sitting out in the sun all day. I took them to Africa on safari shooting thousands of frames and hours of video, also took them to Dubai, Egypt and Israel in August when it was upwards of 125f. Now we have a camera that shoots 8k raw, 4k120fps with amazing AF, class leading IBIS and can even shoot 45mp stills with bursts of 130 raw images or infinite jpegs if that's your thing, and its trash because you can't shoot an entire wedding in one take? Wow. Can't wait for the shitstorm with Sony's cripple hammer on the a7s3 and the pendulum to swing back to the R5/6 and how "I can work around the issues, its worth it for raw and 120p." This reads like a Sony Alpha rumors post. LOL!

The REAL story is that the r6 is the camera to get. That alone beats the s1h for the PRICE. 10 bit interal, 60p, Log, ibis and DPAF. End of story. This overheating issue is a distraction as the people who are spending that much money on an R5 will know what they are getting into. If you are shooting 8k raw or 4k 120p for interviews, god help you. The r5 was never going to be the camera for you. But if you are just shooting clips and stock footage travelling it will be fine. You can wait for the Sony but it will not beat the r6 on PRICE, nor will it touch the r6 in the IBIS department - which judging by the footage is immense and Olympus level. But I get that it is very easy to poo poo canon. Neumann is right, they should be celebrated for what we have been given.

just my 2 cent… …the year is not really the best for many filmmakers nor photographers and I remember that 12 years ago, after the financial crisis, a small change (film - digital) was forced relatively quickly. A technical purchase, no matter which one has to be worthwhile for a filmmaker. These Investments should pay off itself. I find the specs of the camera interesting, but I don't see that any of my clients would be willing to take the risk neither myself of using a camera with such „overheating is 1 tiger example“ issues. Especially now that we are shooting again after the Corona shutdown, my clients want like experimenting much less than they did 1-2 years ago. Even when I suggest the Sony venice for projects, I often hear - let's take a Alexa, because we know what we have. I don't think it will behave any differently in the "prosumer" segment. Not a good time to test real-world 8K overheating files with unexpectable difficult workflows.

You are too hard on them and I have a hard time understanding that much frustration. A 8K badge on the box? What about 4K no crop? 10 bit 422? 4K60 and 4K120 with best in class AF? Best FF IBIS on the market? Top level color science and top level ergonomic. You are omitting a lot of things. They did not trade reliability for a badge. They did what the world asked: best in class video and photo spec in a mirrorless body, period. Those are indeed more than best in class, and to achieve that some of the features have time limitations. Canon has been a joke and frustration for now many years. I welcome with a lot of positivity the great options they bring to the table today. They deserve a round of applause.

@Antoin e I don´t get it. Something in those f3 images sings to me. That´s all I get:) Cannot wait to get mine into gears.

I've done rolling interviews, one after another for over an hour. Plus I've done at least one interview that lasted nearly 30 mins due to various reasons. But you're right, I can work around the R5 limitation. I just use another camera. 😄

I think you'll find others here shoot as a fulltime job too. 😉 Canon hasn't given people want they want. I don't recall people asking for 8K RAW. In fact, 4K RAW is arguably needed far more than 8K RAW. I don't recall peole asking for clip limits, overheating issues. In fact, Canon users have always spoken against Sony cameras for overheating, praising Canon for not chasing gimmicks whilst taking their time and releasing a reliable camera to use. Very few asked to lose that for the sake of 8K. I'm not denying this is an innovative camera that is pushing what technology can do. I've no doubt it will be a great tool for photographers who are also shooting the odd video and videographers who are primarily shooting short clips. Most cameras has issues of some sort or another. I use the Pocket 4K a lot. No flip screen, no IBIS, no AF to speak of and no weather sealant. Its not a perfect camera. Neither is the R5.

I guess that it is impossible to build a camera without one or two flaws (not saying that is the case of the new Canons, they have more than this). And even only with one or two flaws, will be people calling the camera "completely unusable". If Panasonic release a GH6 with 4k120 no crop 4:4:4 12 bit ProRes RAW, clean ISO 12800, Ibis with 15 stops, S35 sensor and $2000 price, someone will shout "but it is not full frame, it's crap" or "I need 4k240 ALL-I, it's crap". Best (at least in my point of view) is to wait for the real world reviews, with real people using it for real jobs, which know what they are doing. Now it is only paper specs talk and sponsored reviews.

Add a water tank and you’ll have a steam engine...

The S1H second hand is a lot cheaper than this, you'll find them for 2700 USD or so. It has an internal fan, all anamorphic modes you could think of, VLOG. External recording for boosted settings, but plenty of good internal ones including a 6K mode for big plates. Excellent colour and DR, it's wonderfully usable. The only down sides are shit autofocus and the battery life could be better. The stills are amazing too. It doesn't yet have raw recording because something is up behind the scenes, but it's designed to work as a pro camera, and is the model of how a hybrid camera should work, for me. If you want a balanced hybrid for professional use, it's the best all-round choice right now. If you want raw for cine-style use with a bigrig, there's the Sigma FP which is phenomenally specced. The new Canons look like more of the usual "we can't make this too good or no-one will buy our camcorders" rubbish from Canon. Same old same old, looks great on paper before it's released (cue ridiculous YouTuber wide mouth wide eye infantile thumbnails) and turns out to be hobbled in order to make you buy a more expensive model. They want you to buy a C300 MK iii. It's where all their great new tech is, including their own version of the Arri dual-gain architecture., Fuck em.

Sample 8k, 24p RAW footage. 15 seconds. 5.12 GB https://drive.google.com/file/d/1puJviism7-VlEgq3QHc1M-vx26LTQifU/view?fbclid=IwAR1T5usi4w20J7Db6B-NE0DE4MoAGMiqDCOLIQ7S7TygIhrGt3sSVak9JSk

This seems like a nice addition to Canon’s R series but i have to agree with Andrew that many things here do seem quite wrong. At least according to my own needs i can’t see this camera fitting any shooting scenario. It seems like a camera that was designed to work like a RED Monstro but only for 20 minutes per session. I can’t imagine a shooting session where 8K DCI recording is needed but overheating is not an issue at all. In hotter environments (and our planet has become quite hot lately) this translates to roughly 10 minutes of shooting. And we are talking about a combo that costs over 7.000 bucks if you count in a native lens plus some CFexpress cards. This feels like an OM Magic Lantern implementation to me (yep i have taken that route too). I can’t blame Canon for trying to deliver a nice prosumer camera but i feel that this Full Frame - Infinite K madness is leading the industry away from our actual needs. There is more than enough tech around for any company to build a nice APSC camera with proper AF, IBIS, 4K DCI, decent autonomy and nice ergonomics. Who needs more in this price range (2000-4000$) after all?

It is not a bad idea to recommend going out and shooting more with the BMPCC4K, perhaps @boukmanmutt can fall in love again with the BMPCC4K? If so, then would it be such a crazy idea to own *two* cameras?? Could then pick up a compact GX850 for just a hundred bucks (or at least, sub $200) to handle the stills needs. (and a little bit of casual shooting too) And the lenses can easily be shared between both the P4K and the Panasonic.

Saw this on the Facebook group from Kinson Loo. If you want to applaud a company for innovating, applaud them. They're pushing boundaries and delivering.

Oh, there's really no reason for childish fan generalization sort of like/dislike - most of us don't complain at all, nor anything here deserves any such emotion (at least from me). It is quit possible at the same time to enjoy in coming of advanced technology and to note some common sense problem in real world usage... what exactly motivated this thread, as far as I understand. After all arguments, critics and applause for effort or step further in technology, the question, I believe, for most of us interested in matter will be simple: to spend sum of 4-5000 euro here or somewhere else? Judging from my humble criteria of projected opportunities (and zero interest in photography) - at the moment I'd spend this sum just for one really video/indiemovie workhorse, which R5 apparently is not if overheating danger/distraction exists even at base 4k raw shooting level. Someone else (probably with more free money at disposal) will greatly enjoy in different aspects of R5 offer, and it's apparently also well founded choice.

I mean the fact is no other mirrorless camera gives you full frame 8k, 4k 120p, 60p, or 8k oversampled 30p. The mere fact that you can use these settings is a great accomplishment, cause you can't use them with any other mirrorless. I'd rather have then as an option than not have them at all. I can shoot all day in standard 4k 30p mode and mix it in with some hfr modes if I want. To all those saying, ye but it's not worth the price...well the market will decide what it is worth. Again you don't get any of these options in any other mirrorless. 8 stops, dual pixel, uncropped 4k, flippy screen, 10 bit internal, etc etc. The constant moaning and complaining is unnecessary. Just compare this to the way the xt4 was treated. Apparently that camera is perfect despite having crap ibis where you can't pan and unreliable autofocus (people had to turn to YouTube and Philip bloom for that info). So it overheats in certain modes. Don't worry, you will be fine, it's not the end of the world.

When it dies in the middle of a shot will the first thought be "I am glad Canon pushed the camera industry forward" or will it be "why did I spend £4000 on this thing which Peter McKinnon said was THE GRAIL CAMERA"?

I agree and don't get me wrong, I am very happy the R5 has been released. The camera industry is richer because of it. Anyone who can think outside the box and release a camera that tries to push what is possible is a good thing. Take the Pocket 4K, first to bring 4K RAW to the masses. Okay, no flip screen, poor battery life, no IBIS or AF, no weather sealant, but it still did it. And many like me struggle through the issues to make it work for us. The fact the R5 isn't for me, is neither here nor there. I'm not freaked out about the limitations, but am happy to discuss and ponder on them. It shows where technology currently sits. Forums tend to exaggerate feelings. If we were chatting face to face, you'd get a better reflection as to where I feel on this matter. My only concern is hiring 2nd shooters who buy the hype and get the camera and think innovation will see them through a 90 minute Ceremony. I've had one guy I hired go wrong thanks to using a Sony camera. One long 25 minute clip, followed by dozens of 20 seconds to 1 minute clips that I had to work with to form the end of the Ceremony. Not good, and down to overheating. I'm afraid for my work, it's not a small issue. Its not like bad AF. This is consistent and you know where you stand with it. Problem with over heating is that you don't know. It could run before shutdown for an hour or just 15 mins. For my work, that uncertainty would cripple me.

Nice looking frames. I love your rig as well. I have had good results with ProRes LT to Vimeo.

You literally have no idea what you're talking about! I've already answered all your questions but you keep flogging a dead horse. You must have very little experience of shooting interviews. I have used all sorts of cameras for all sorts of different jobs - from tiny client work to feature films to short docs for VICE - from crappy DSLR's to cinema cameras. Whatever the job calls for. That's why I know what is needed for interviews. If you are focussing on "what camera I use" and think that's what makes a filmmaker, that confirms your naivety. It's a problem with a lot of talk on this forum - confusing technical camera knowledge for filmmaking.

Here is my F3 rigged up by the way + sport bag transport

LOL, its a joke or what. How many have you done. These thing must be rolling continuously for 2 or even 3 camera setup. You never know about how your subject is going to react to the camera.

R5 seems a good trade off between body size and video recording capability. I think its great to be able to shoot such high spec video in a compact easy to handle system. I shoot travel/active/lifestyle stock footage and rarely need more than 1 or 2 minute clips. Also like that R5 seems to have Panasonic level IBIS. For video work, long takes and on-set, I'd use a suitable camera with cooling fans. I think those R5 recording times are expected and perfectly acceptable

Honestly if Panasonic created a camera with the following I would be completely sold, all I need for quite some time to come: 4k60p 10 bit S1H dynamic range and color Native duel ISO Super 35 or full frame sensor Built in NDs h.265 and prores codecs IBIS Duel pixal autofocus I could honestly care less about 6k or 8k, raw and the like unless it was a good compressed raw like r3d. A rich cinematic image, built in NDs and a reliable body would be top of my list. I currently shoot with GH5s and speedboosters and they are the closest things I have ever gotten to that list, really just add NDs, good auto focus, nail down the color science and low light a bit more like the GH5s but with IBIS and they would have the "perfect" camera in my book.

The guy still knows how to impress: He shot this on an a6300. I believe in HD. You can also download the source file on the vimeo page.

You are right Δημήτρη. Probably Fuji will build this aps-c camera (with great colour science) in the form of the X-H2. The suitable sensor for that is already available by Sony. Nevertheless they do need some decent video glass that will not be ridiculously overpriced , a very Canon-like future of Fuji pricing.

APOLOGIES ALL. The test above was GH5 4K 150Mbps h264, not the 5K mode. I just shot a few other tests in other modes and came back in Resolve to look at the files and saw 3840x2160 next to the file I used for the above. Good news is that I now have 1080p ALL-I, 1080p Long-GOP, and 4K ALL-I clips to analyse, so we'll see if there are differences.

Amen brother. For so many...too many, the glass always seems half empty and the focus is on what they have not been given. There is always going to be some kind of compromise whatever choices you make.

Love that video by Ed David - the commentary was hilarious! Nice to see humility and honesty at the forefront. So far, my thoughts are that there might be these components to motion cadence: variation in timing between exposures (ie, every frame in 25p should be 40ms apart, but maybe there are variations above and below) - technical phrase for this is "jitter" rolling shutter, where if an object moves up and down within the frame it would appear to be going slower / faster than other objects Things that can impact that appear to be a laundry-list of factors, but seem to fall into one of three categories: technical aspects that bake-in un-even movement into the files during capture technical aspects that can add un-even movement during playback perceptual factors that may make the baked-in issues and playback issues more or less visible upon viewing footage My issue appears to be that the playback issues are obscuring the issues added at capture. As much as I'd love to do an exhaustive analysis of this stuff, realistically this is a selfish exercise for me, as I want to 1) learn what this is and how to see it, and 2) test my cameras and learn how to use them better. If I work out that I can't see it, or it's too difficult to make my tech behave then I likely won't care about the other stuff because I can't see it 🙂 First steps are to analyse what jitter might be included in various footage, and to have a play with my hardware.

This is an excellent B-roll camera... If you want to record small file sizes and 8K resolutions.... what production are you even on??? Is the work you doing even worth it? Get yourself a proper camera for that... you want a hybrid that does it all... get this... frick... all you need is an R6, right? Well this does that and more... so if you cannot afford to get memory cards.... and 20 min is too little... don’t look at this camera. Start looking at the R6. In my opinion, I would get this over R6 cause there is some future proofing on the camera itself... I pay one flat fee of $4000 and not worry about upgrading every 3 years (@ $2500 a pop). Use just 4K @ 60 (like most people here want) which it already has... and all you need to do is set it up in the menu... shoot... even docs can live with 1080p for now....When I need 8K in the future... I have it already... longer record times.... may be not, but in the future there would a C100 Mark 5 or 6 with that... and I can still use the R5 as a B-cam.

Agreed. I want better AF if only so people stop complaining! Ha ha

I'm not giving up on believing they can deliver something. It's just that the market has changed and having reliable AF available (doesn't mean you have to use it!) is becoming a must-have feature these days. Just having a really solid, rich 6K or 4K image and the ability to do ProRes RAW via HDMI isn't as appealing anymore when (pending more hands-on tests) the R5/R6/A7SIII gives us that and solid AF. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, it's becoming hard and harder to look the other way on Panasonics AF woes when the competition is starting to offer features that pretty much use to be the sole domain of GH4/GH5 in the sub $3K market. So they need to kinda have something compelling if their AF is bottom tier, hence my questions I wrote in this thread for Andrew to potentially ask. What's their plan?...because I have fairly expensive MFT gear, and with Olympus out of the game, and the camera industry contracting like it is, I'm evaluating what system to spend my hard earned cash in for the next 5+ years. It's important they have a clear answer.

Panasonic doesn't necessarily have to leap ahead of the competition, like they did with the GH4 & GH5. If Panasonic can simply broadly meet the challenge of the R5/a7Smk3 (so doesn't necessarily have to have 8K, but say give us 6K to appease the "K obsessed fanatics", better slow motion of 4K 160fps with lots of trigger record options, and work with Atomos for ProResRAW. All of these easily achievable even with their current GH5 sensor! Doesn't need a radical leap forward by Panasonic), then Panasonic can have a hit on their hands even against the tough 2020/2021 competition so long as they keep the GH6 priced sub $2K. (ideally I'd say they should even price it a little lower than simply $1995, say $1.8K so that it is closer in price to the Fuji X-T4) As many of us would happily take an epic Panasonic GH6 for sub $2K vs a $4K Canon/Sony Plus remember there are great things in the GH5/GH5S (and thus the GH6) that I bet not even all the new Sony/Canons will match: Timecode, full size HDMI, waveform monitoring, DMW-XLR1, compactness, anamorphic features, excellent IBIS, etc Not giving up in believing in Panasonic yet!

At least they readily admit the overheating unlike sony.

This is definitely taken by the Sony book. For years Sony was selling cameras only from the spec lists with terrible ergonomics, terrible battery life, overheating and the such and they reached No2.. Canon decided to play "dirty" and put everything they had on a camera, which isn't even that "expensive". I believe it is a good marketing strategy for them, but for me, it gives more points to Panasonic, as the most true and honest manufacturer out there. It overheats? then make the biggest and heaviest m43 ever made (GH5) because it has to be a workhorse. We have to make a full frame hybrid video workhorse? put a fan into one if need be. That is an incredible approach, especially back in the Alpha and alpha days but even still... Another point I want to make, is that there is a new business model out there, that they do not need workhorse cameras anymore. Some people can just use any camera producing small clips, or youtube videos and earn their bread (and butter). For me, it is unacceptable that a camera may ,or may not, overheat on a job (even FS7 do rarely and its a huge thing on set), but I see a lot of the younger generation that have no problem with that.

The ability to match the color easily and swap the lenses is more important than the bit depth, and I'm someone who is obsessed with bit depth. Recently was shooting a short and needed a gimbal shot to match my Sony F3, I shot on a friends A7s instead of the Z6 because of the ease of matching the two, because I knew the editor wasn't going to do an intense grade in post.

I mean...sigh...this is not the end of the world, I guess. You "CAN" still use the R5 for events if you plan it carefully. Stage play - Use 2 R5's and start one 10 min later than the other. This allows one to force time stop before the other. Then just stager the record start/stops back and forth between them. Your kids school singing play - Time your record stop when some other kid is singing to as to make sure your time is rationed in favor of your kids performance. Wedding - Plan in advance with the priest. Setup a hand signal to let him know you are stopping. This triggers him to tell the audience...."we will now have a moment of silence for the bride and groom"...assuming the room is not hot, you can stop/start again without missing anything. See?....the R5 "IS" doable if you PLAN your work and RATION your time wisely. CT

Maybe Canon will come out with an ice pack option:

Its fair to say the electronic shutter doesn't always fair brilliantly. This train was only pulling away from the platform rather than speeding through it and the distortion is obviously, erm, "somewhat" apparent. The bigger concern you might have in your application though is with LED stage lighting as the banding can be pretty horrendous as this quick snap of a sign in a lift shows. Suffice to say, there were no yellow and green stripes on the printed page !