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Holy shit, are we really complaining about how it looks now? It's not going to win any awards, but it looks fine. All the buttons are easily accessible and it's easily rigged up. Are we really gonna pretend that RED cameras are good looking? They're boxes with a mid 2000s gun anesthetic.

IDK....... It may not work for YOU but it may be just the ticket for others. I can see this being a great tool for wildlife doco's using S16 lenses. On a tripod in a hide sitting and waiting for days at a time for THE shot. I have a very nice selection of S16 glass in PL, ......Angénieux , Canon. Some of the S16 lenses have impressive reach for thier size - S16 lenses really help when you have to hump all that gear into the bush. 6K @120 fps down scaled to 4K. Whats not to love? A long S16 lens shot at 6K - this allows for re-framing and punching in with a 4K delivery - if I need that. I f I dont I can just down scale to 4K. If I need 220 fps I just shoot at 4K. I see this camera as an exciting enabler. 4/6K from an RGB digital sensor seems to give S16 glass a new lease on life. And those frame rates...where exactly do you get that on S16 other then here ??? OK so you have no use case.......good for you. But to exhibit such a small mind to say this is just no good for S16....hmmmm, ok then fella...if you say so. You keep believing that while the rest of us explore what we can do with our high end S16 glass and 220 fps @4K. A game changer I would say. A TRUE game changer. I can see the price of S16 glass going up because of this, much like the effect the BMPCC had on S16 glass some years ago. Before the BMPCC, S16 glass could be had for little. Not now. Looks like history may repeat here. Its going to be interesting to see how this pans out.

"Dude" you literally called it plastic multiple times and didn't know the camera was metal. You've been talking out of your ass.

Surprised no one is talking about what the 12K BM cam means to S16 lenses. 6K S16 on a digital RGB sensor seems like a HUGE thing to me. The frame rates on the S16 crop are icing on the cake. There are a fair few S16 enthusiasts out there with a good selection of S16 PL mount lenses. Seems like this camera could be a game changer for them. Thoughts?

Honestly they are the target audience. They are RED users that use the resolution heavily in their edits for cropping and zooming, also have been heavily critical of the RED ecosystem in the past. Big reasons they are switching: - In camera backup to 2 cards. - Ability to use common media instead of RED mags, which is HUGE for their storage costs. - Every editor in their office now has a fully featured copy of Resolve.

RED had a similar reputation not all that long ago. It takes a big innovative splash to make people change ships...once they do you have a chance to shake up the market. I think this camera will make enough RED users jump ship and then it all comes down to this specific camera and how good/reliable it is. There’s no reason to think this camera isn’t how Blackmagic enters that conversation. None at all.

Certainly debatable as of two days ago ☺️

I love MarkusPix and his channel. IMO, one of the best. He gives away a ton of gear too! Here's the latest where he tested a bunch of cameras he owns. Overheating seems to be a hot topic these days.

To my knowledge it took over a decade for RED cameras to penetrate this market and finally become an industry standard. But that was a time where the debate between film and digital media was on it’s peak and RED had a double challenge to face. BM has definitely the dynamics to become the next RED. If Ursa 12K proves to be a reliable body, it offers too much innovation for anyone to ignore. I think this is the first time that sensor technology, codec and editing software are placed into a straight line by any company, no? Even the mighty Sony tried to maintain such an ecosystem and failed.

“Most”? I’d be surprised. The word used is “overheating”. But it’s more than that - it’s destroying a shot. Ruining a day’s work. Wrecking a wedding. The potential implications go beyond what can be measured using a thermometer. Easy to forgive? Having said that, I might overlook the issue. I shoot short sequences in cold weather and the 8k might be fun.

You're deflecting. Indeed they aren't all the same, but there's also a hell of a lot of difference between PLASTIC and MAGNESIUM ALLOY, and you made it real clear that you had no idea what the camera was even made out of before critiquing it for being "plastic" and suggesting they add $5000 to the price. So yeah, "dude," you were clearly talking out of your ass and won't even admit it.

As there are so many threads on R5,R6 and 1Dx III I thought is better to have a dedicated thread for editing perf. Machine used for the test is a gaming notebook i9 10980HK, 2070 Super Max 8GB Vram, tested with files coming from internal M2 SSD and directly from the CFexpress card (no difference in the result). Resolve 16.2.4, NVidia Studio driver. Very simple grade, 1 node for LUT, 1 node for LGG, 1 node for color boost, saturation and mid tone detail. RAW: 5.5k RAW 30 -> 5.5k 30 timeline realtime 5.5k RAW 60 -> 5.5k 30 timeline realtime 5.5k RAW 60 -> 5.5k 60 timeline 30-35 fps 5.5k RAW 60 -> 5.5k 60 timeline realtime (half res RAW processing) 8k RAW 24 -> 5.5k 24 timeline realtime (half res RAW processing) 8k RAW 24 -> 4k 24 timeline realtime (half res RAW processing) 8k RAW 24 -> 4k 24 timeline 15 fps 8k RAW 24 -> 8k 24 timeline 15 fps but not usable as you get gpu out of memory h265 10bit: 4k 120 all-i -> 4k 30 timeline no realtime 4k 60 all-i -> 4k 30 timeline no realtime 4k 60 ipb -> 4k 30 timeline no realtime 4k 30 all-i -> 4k 30 timeline no realtime 4k 30 ipb -> 4k 30 timeline realtime Observations: - RAW is much easier in perf than h265 10bit, afiak no HW acceleration is currently supporting h265 10bit 4:2:2 only 4:2:0 or 4:4:4 - Thanks that you can set half res RAW (you can even set quarter res) on the decoding setting you can work in real time and then switch to full res for final rendering. - Very strange that ipb can playback in realtime and all-i not, it could be a Resolve issue - You need to disable Intel Quick Sync in Resolve preferences if not you cannot view h265 files, this seems a bug as they could detect that is not compatible with quick sync. - 8k timeline with 8GB Vram is just not possible in Resolve. So even frame grabbing becomes an issue. 6k timeline works for frame grabbing. Did not test the limit here. - It is a very powerful notebook but no where near a powerful workstation... is a tad slower than a i7 9900k 1070 machine. Hopefully both Resolve and CPU/GPU vendor will better support h265 10bit 4:2:2. Bottom-line what you save in storage in not using RAW you will spend in time converting the footage. Would be cool that other reports their experience in this thread and also with other NLEs.

Got to hand it to the Canon marketing department. They are fast at putting out fires. An ability which in case of EOS R5 is useful in the literal sense as well!

Here is a good read on the myths of this technology. http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com/2020/07/image-algorithmics-on-rgbw-color-filter.html

Camcorders when they found out they were invited to a heat test 110f in Las Vegas according to the description.

Actually the BMD Ursa Broadcast is known as an excellent S16 camera, and lots of people use it for that. Tristan Pemberton in Australia has been using it for a few years now with the "Hurt Locker" lens (Canon 8-64mm T2.4 PL zoom); I've seen a few other people say they've been using this combo, including on films shot for BBC. I haven't seen any actual examples though. The Ursa Broadcast doesn't have this amazing new sensor of the Ursa 12K, but it's a fraction of the cost and recently gained a lot of new features (including BRAW) in a firmware update.

I think some feel that if colour is pleasing, then it's also accurate. I feel that's not always the case, but then colour science is one of those areas that can be subjective, yet many try to pin their personal preference as facts. I personally don't always like the Arri look. People post videos and say how wonderful it is, and yet it does little for me.

right now the camera is useless for most of us, we can not trust to do anything important with it, and price is too high for all its limitations, once the camera is out there, and we get good reviews we could find a way to use it, if we can run all day with an external recorder, well, that's interesting, not ideal, but much better, if we use a small vent in a cage could also work, we really don't know yet, with the current information it is clearly a NO NO, but real world test and DIY solutions could change our initial decision.

Theres no changing minds over there, they're in too deep. They were lining up to preorder Komodo at a premium without any footage and limited details on specs

Discussion on reduser about how “thick” the RED image is concerned to the “thin” image from BM (and, needless to say every other camera). Isn’t this a bit like discussing how long God’s beard is?

after noones show and tell, i feel slightly inadequate 🙄 my last acquisition for the takumar collection for quite awhile i hope is a pentax smc 17mm f4 m42. This should round out the collection nicely and cover all my bases. After this a better tripod and head is on the agenda.

I've been doing some thinking and realised that I care about getting the highest quality image out of the GH5, without caring much about resolution. I have been thinking about the 'best' modes as a choice between: 5K 4:3 420 10-bit Long-GOP 200Mbps h265 UHD 422 10-bit All-I 400Mbps h264 1080 422 10-bit All-I 200Mbps h264 The h265 codec is twice as efficient as h264, so the 5K 200Mbps h265 should be broadly similar to the UHD 400Mbps h264 in terms of compressed-bits-per-square-cm. So I got to thinking those modes might be better, then I remembered that there were other h265 anamorphic modes, and stumbled upon this mode: 3.3K 4:3 422 10-bit All-I 400Mbps h265 It looks perfect! It's 422. It's All-I. It's 400Mbps, and it's h265. That makes it the equivalent of 800Mbps h264. This is double the bit-rates of the 400Mbps h264 mode and the 200Mbps h265 modes. That's also very similar to the UHD Prores HQ bitrate, which is 707Mbps. Does anyone use this mode? I can't be the first person to see this? (actually, a google search revealed someone mentioning this mode in EOSHD, and it was ..... me!) It might be time to do that comparison video.

An important distinction. Any qualms about build quality should start and stop here. The Pocket Cinema Camera does feel very cheap, I will give @Coiii that much...but the URSA and specifically this model isn’t a part of that family. I have personally never used an URSA myself but just by looking at them they seem to be a step or two above the Pocket line.

To steer us back on course, just on the QC issue. I don't think the QC will be the same for a 1k pocket as it is for a 10k ursa. So any anecdotes about how someone's pocket failed just doesn't mean anything. This ursa body has stayed relatively the same throughout several generations - it would make sense that they have ironed out the kink's in the manufacturing process by now, and what's more, because the body is the same, it means they were able to pass the cost-savings to the end-consumer. If they are aiming for the top of the market, I doubt they would be stupid enough to sell an unreliable product and tarnish their name for good.

Can we get rid of these anonymous "experts" and bring back your @Mattias Burling's and @John Brawley's please?

Again, it is a magnesium alloy body! At least do your research, jeez.

I can't comment on the hardware side of BM, but I've been using Resolve for some time and I can say that they've made it much more reliable over the last few years. It used to crash once or twice per hour of use, for me anyway, but I don't think I've seen it crash in the last year even once. They've done that even while adding the Fairlight, Fusion, and Cut pages, which integrated two other software programs into Resolve, no small feat. Resolve seems accessible, so I think it's easy to forget that it was only a decade ago that it cost upwards of $100,000 and even today it is one of the two worlds-best colour grading platforms and used by everything up to and including the highest budget productions there are. In that sense, making it reliable is a must as serious people expect that. In this sense, I think BM know that reliability and service are fundamental to having a premium product, because they already own one and have customers in that market segment already. John Brawley includes lots of detail about the sensor here: https://johnbrawley.wordpress.com It's a great write-up and may answer your question above.

Thanks for sharing. That's a fantastic write-up by @John Brawley.

Here we go again. Woof.

That’s in all the groups I’ve visited. Each group has a set of “patriotic” members who bash other cameras, make tree and backyard videos with their small tilta wooden rig , theorize on what if’s and no real footage. I agree that the body should be a bit more durable and maybe they should have made it more sensor in a box, but the camcorder body is a proven design conducive to out of the box filming. In addition Grant said that this release is for the high end and all we can do now is watch what happens with this camera.

Y’all should read johnbrawley.wordpress.com it answers a lot of the assumptions in this thread.

I've been watching a bit of his stuff lately myself and I really enjoy the fact that although he has a ton of gear he also has a fun DIY sensibility. HIs contraption for vlog lighting (complete with forward facing camera and monitor so he can do walk and talks with it !) was a typical example and actually yielded some impressive, if slightly impractical, results. And his "My Camera Gear For Travelling Europe" video is an essential reference to be used in mitigation when your other half says you're packing too many lenses on your holiday !

Again, it is not a camera to be used by creative/artist people of the S16 world, can it be used for a very specific area as you said "wildlife doco's"?, probably, good for you if this is the ideal tool in your eyes, it is going to be a game changer for S16 glass?, not even close, the revolution that S16 glass had years ago was because of BMPCC cameras were very cheap and available for everybody, so you get this cheap camera, get the cheap S16 glass, and you are ready for what usually cost you two or three time that money. This camera is $10K, no more than two or three guys here are going to buy it, you most probably are not going to buy it, it is too expensive, sorry dude, this revolution is never going to happen, and you still can get good S16 glass at very good prices, just last year I bough three S16 canons very cheap. I have been using S16 film cameras since 2011, and the only S16 digital camera I was ever interested was the digital bolex, because of its MOJO.

Good to see Justin Bieber being productive in his old age. Interesting test though. I think it highlights overheating issues with small cameras in general, Canon certainly isn't alone. This hasn't stopped tons of people from using the A73 professionally. Tons of wedding videographers use it. Definitely an extreme heat situation though.

That test was brutal. That kind of heat not good for batteries.

Yes this is my dilemma, would be pretty frustrating spending £4200 and not being able to trust the higher quality modes, don't see the point. If you're only shooting very short sequences fair enough but not for me

Great blog post from Brawley - as close to the source as we possible can get. At least he is not speculating but actually reporting. The price of the camera means that it will be pretty economical to rent as too. good times. I like the braw codec and how davinci makes my computers feel almost new again. At least comparing to premiere.

I feel like s16 glass wouldn't even resolve that much detail? Might not be too different from just upscaling?

All Bayer Pattern CFA is way lower than the stated resolution, Regardless. You get Only 1/4th the actual stated Pixel resolution. And then the OLPF/OLF reduces this by another 15-30% (though to be fair, without it, the image would be a mess, or have resolution reduction by algorithms even if wasn't exactly as much). Not to mention the light loss. Only multiple lab tests would show whether this has less resolution than a regular Bayer CFA (for the same number of states pixels) and if yes by how much. How did you arrive at this?

Footage is available here: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/products/blackmagicursaminipro Scroll down to the Colour Science heading and there's three clips.

That’s some of the best footage I’ve seen out of any camera.

They do, in their product release video.

totally agree, I hope BM make sense and provide a tool with this new sensor to the indie/solo shooter which is and has been its major customer market.

For those that aren't visiting BM forum, here is quote of Juan Melara's cheer and ask about gen 5 color science - as mentioned earlier, also with further playing with gen 5, similarity with P4KAlexa lut is astonishing - it seems as that BM engineers took his achievement as pattern to replicate in effect: "Just spent an hour or so checking out the new Gen5 colour science. The new gamma curve is great. Pretty much exactly what I’ve always wanted from BMD. Top work. But Captainhook, Blackmagic Design, any chance you could include an option to disable the Gen5 gamut mapping/limiting? Or include a colour space that has it disabled? A lot of grading workflows require access to the full unconstrained gamut. For example negative film emulation. Currently neg film emulation works so well on BMD cameras as they see and hold onto extremely saturated colours. The results I’m getting on the P6K in Gen4 are as good as any other camera I’ve shot and profiled. I’ve got extremely saturated test charts shot on the P6K and on Vision3 film and what the P6K sees in Gen4 is pretty amazing. On the Vision3 charts I can see a gradient of red values getting deeper as they saturate, then organically curving towards orange as they reach peak saturation. On the P6K in Gen4 I can see the same smooth gradient of reds as they reach the same end point but with less of the curve towards orange. In a profiled LUT based match, that organic curve towards orange is easy to achieve. In a procedural Yedlin style match that curve is easy enough to recreate. But in Gen5, that gradient of deep red values doesn’t exist, as they’ve been constrained and homogenised into a light pink tone. All the amazing colour separation is gone, which makes it difficult if not impossible to accurately emulate neg film. As you can imagine this is slightly disappointing. If the URSA 12k and the other BMD cameras are expected to integrate into high end workflows when shooting Gen5, make some colourists and colour scientists happy and please allow access to the full unconstrained gamut."

I keep getting more and impressed by the actual image this camera is producing. I was kind of preparing to be "meh'd" by the footage, but the video quality looks fantastic in the few videos I have seen. The color science seems great and it seems to have a slight sharpness reduction which to me is fantastic - I hate overly sharp digital footage - i'm guessing this is due to the aa filter, similar to the S1H. It just slightly takes the edge off. I have said it before and I will say it again, it looks very similar to my C200 footage.

Why are you talking about 8K. Thats so dated now. We're on 12K now for good quality 8K delivery.. 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Seriously though, I can get 6K, with crop and downsampling advantages, with better file sizes, 50p recording and most importantly, no time limits on the Pocket 6K. When an 8K camera gives me that, we can discuss the advantages of 8K. Until then, its like the 12K Blackmagic camera, a future I can one day enjoy.

8K is just as useful for 4K delivery as 4K has been for FHD delivery. From R5's website: "Of course, recording in 8K doesn’t mean you have to output in 8K. One of the big practical advantages of shooting in 8K right now is that you can oversample the 8K down to 4K in order to produce an image with more detail and better dynamic range than a native 4K one. Alternatively, you can choose to crop a 4K frame from the full 8K image in order to have more creative freedom in post-production. "Say you were filming an interview where the final output is going to be 4K," suggests Clive. "If you're smart with your light and with your shooting angle, you could start with a wide 8K shot and then just grab a 4K section of the frame for a close-up headshot later. So one camera angle and one take will give you two cuts. For someone who's working alone with a single camera, that's a massive bonus."

The event is expected to last more than 20 mins. Just a heads up for any R5 shooters at the event.

People are going to need a bitcoin scam to be able to buy all the cameras announced this month.

Hey man, curious to know how did you get on with this lens? AF performance & noise? How bad is breathing for video? Any quirks or character of note? I like experimenting and I’m looking to try a light and low-profile all-rounder to pair with R and metabones speedbooster... not for work, just for fun. Thanks for sharing