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Sony unveils their new menu designer.

I suspect that in the entire history of cameras, there has never been as much hype, followed by pre-orders, followed by hysteria, followed by cancelled pre-orders...before a camera has actually gone on sale to the public as there has been with these two firebrands 😂

So the Canons have overheat issues and get bashed to death, memes and all.. but the new Sony, who in a clear comparison test shuts down completely under 23 minutes and before the R5 sitting next to it.. and it gets a free pass? Kinda sounds like double standards.

16 bit raw recorded as 12 bit Log ProRes RAW? This is the only camera to do this right? Guessing it doesn’t really matter though for 99% of cases. (from Atomos press release)

I don’t get all the negativity. This is a very sensible camera from Sony as long as it doesn’t overheat and ruin a real world shoot. Everybody wanted a FF 4K60p 10-bit camera. We have it now. With excellent AF, ALL-I, log, no pixel binning in sight (!) and hopefully no overheating in practical terms. Sure, the flip screen is low resolution and rubbish. The menus are straight out of kindergarden classroom. And its only 12MP. Who cares. It’s about the sausage in the end. I hate to say it but Sony is probably going to be the company to give us that internal eND in a mirrorless body someday.

I honestly don't understand why people are feeling "very underwhelmed" by this camera, what do you expect? I feel the Canon R5 has seriously skewed expectations, but we know in the real world how this has burnt (sorry) potential buyers. Who gives a monkey's if it doesn't have 8k? No other camera in this price range does what this camera does. In some ways it's better than the FX9. Seems like the perfect video tool for those who don't want or can afford something bigger. Well done Sony! (and please, no hush-hush cripple hammers!!).

I am moving to 8K smartphones 😂

I just watched this video by Of Two Lands, where he talks about why he bought an OG BMPCC / P2K in 2020. Some of his reasons were sentimental, as he owned one early in his career and it worked well for him, but he also mentioned that a lot of people are going back to shooting S16, or are getting sick of a super-clear image, or don't want to have the 'crutches' of AF or slow-motion or the challenges and limitations of an older fully-manual camera. We also had the P4K firmware update that added a S16 crop mode, the Ursa 12K camera has a S16 crop mode, and @JimJones argued that the new Ursa might attract purchasers purely for its S16 mode: @crevice Argued that the BMMCC still matters, and received much agreement. When the P4K first came out there was a lot of anticipation of getting a 4K BMPCC but then disappointment that the image wasn't the same, and that it looked too modern and too clean and too high resolution. After all this I wondered what it was about the image from these cameras that attracted so much praise. I even heard that the BMMCC was a "baby Alexa" due partially to its colour science, but also in other ways too, such as motion cadence, resolution and codec support. I bought one and tried emulating its image with my GH5 (a project which is still ongoing): I had a theory that this interest in lower-sharpness (and to some extent low resolution) cinema was a nostalgic thing amongst those who grew up with cinema being celluloid rather than digital acquisition and distribution, but the " cinematic / film / organic / LUT / hipster " crowd is getting younger and more interested rather than less, so I wonder - is this a thing? Are people feeling a pull to go back? ....to go back to S16? ....to go back to MF? ....to shooting slower and more deliberately?

Pretty sure I fall into this category. The footage from this old sensor just looks better to me than anything else that's out there, including the new cameras or the really high end cameras. That's just my personal aesthetic.

So far from what I saw: 4k <= 30fps details: R5 4k > 30fps details: A7S DR: ? RS: R5 but to be confirmed in which modes. Photo: R5 Thermal: A7S but seems an issue here too. Card max size: R5 Dual card recording: A7S 10bit 4:2:0 NLE HW accelerated: A7S (to be confirmed by test) RAW R5 Lowlight A7S 120p with audio A7S Colors R5 (still to be compared) AF ? Super35 R5 Audio A7S with the adapter HDMI A7S Battery ? IBIS R5 Ugliest menu color😊 A7S These two cameras they should have a baby and then it would be the one 😊

From all the videos published so far it seems pretty obvious that overall the A7SIII will perform better with overheating but can still overheat especially in 4K120P. I do not think it will be an issue for most in real world. The R5 is where the big question stands, will it be usable for most (we already know it won't work for productions or people needing long recording). If the R5 proves to be usable (I ordered day 1 and will report my tests) that's the keeper for me. I am 60% photo 40% video at the moment so those 45mpx are important. Also the IBIS is world appart.

I don’t see anyone talking about the very low expected rolling shutter. We got a preview of it from that German Vlog (I’m now 99% sure it was shot on A7S3). That’s another really strong edge for this camera IMO opening up all kinds of action shots and fast camera movements. Pretty excited to find out more about that.

I am not a Sony user, but I don't know what are the expectation for people. I mean this camera is better technically than any DSLR or mirrorless camera in term of specs for video. it's 12 megapixel will provide good 4k which is more than enough for 99.9% of shooting. It also permits such a camera to actually work and not overheat. With FF 10 bit and 422 internal until 120 fps, great DR to exceptional lowlight and autofocus, + it seems it has better ergonomics with flip screen and menu. I can't understand how anyone can be disappointing unless its out of budget for some. As a Nikon z6 user I am not interested in Sony's , I already have great color and ergonomics and supreme image quality. If the z6s had the spec like that or just 10 bit log internal with 60 fps 4k I would be in heaven. For me the as a hybrid shooter the 24 megapixel is more important, so I would not even mind a 1 to 5 minutes 120 fps 4k because who shoots 120 fps 4k for 30 minutes... Just derushing that is like 2.5 hours of 24p!!!

https://www.eoshd.com/news/sony-a7s-iii-is-here-sensible-update-but-not-as-revolutionary-as-hoped-plus-tough-competition-from-panasonic-s1h/ I wouldn't say it was either underwhelming, or fantastically exciting. The 4K/120p 10bit mode looks great. Other than that it seems to be lots of sensible evolutions in all areas that add up to a very usable professional tool. The combination of features does take some beating. To have that new 10bit codec, continuous 4K 120p, good thermal management, great big high-res EVF, new menus, along with the latest Sony phase-detect AF, does appeal to a lot of people, whereas in comparison the EOS R5 looks like a bit of a broken toy to be honest, with the silly fan strapped to the back. Sony clearly have a better processor than Canon and better engineering know-how to avoid heat limitations in 4K/120p and 10bit. I do like the new hybrid SD / CFExpress type A card slots too. The very fast media is barely any larger than UHS II SD. However, part of me thinks it will be a bit uninspiring to pick up and shoot with. Like all Sonys are. The new menus look ugly, and all it really seems to amount to is putting the tabs at the side rather than at the top. Fuji's and Panasonic's menus look a lot better. The playback thumbnails are still dreadful for video clips. And it remains to be seen what the live-view quality is like and whether it makes use of the 9 million dot EVF and what the focussing aids are like. Is peaking still a fuzzy mess?

Nokishita just tweeted out a link to an unlistied Youtube B&H review of the a7s3 that froze about 10-minutes after I started watching. The video is now private. I'm cancelling the R5 order and selling my EOS R to stick with Sony. This will be my video workhorse. A summary: A few flavors of XAVC including all-I and Long GOP in 4k and HD. You pick the level of compression, then the resolution, then framerate - from what I remember every bitrate option can record all resolutions and framerates. The tester couldn't get it to overheat at 4k60p after over an hour of recording outside in the sun. Same color science as the FX9 and Venice. The goofy colored new menus SAR had are real, full touchscreen navigation. All framerates are 10-bit 4:2:2 internal including 120fps, though the max 600mbps needs V90 cards. Full AF with all framerates, a more Canon-like touchscreen for AF. The AF points in that leaked doc are correct 700+ PDAF and another 400+ CDAF. External 16-bit raw is real, though they don't know how its actually gonna be recorded. No pans but he said rolling shutter is pretty much eliminated. IBIS is the reported 5.5 stops, looks like the same Sony IBIS. Has the ZV1 digital stabilization and the FX9 metadata stabilization - this is what he was talking about when the video froze. He didn't get to the EVF Looking forward to the announcement. Chris

This! Why are people so desperate to turn their gear over so quickly when the tool they have is perfectly fine? I was seriously considering the A7SIII as a B-Cam for the many shoots I do on the FX9 which until now, I have used a Pocket4K for. I haven't read anything other than what's on this thread until know but this camera overheats as well? Really? So, Sony spend three years on this camera making it a video powerhouse and they confine it to a mirrorless body that overheats? Crazy! I don't know about anyone else here, but I almost never shoot in the rain and when I do, it's easy for me to fashion up a little plastic rain cover over my Pocket4k, FX9, or whatever other camera I'm using.... I do however, shoot in sun and warm temperatures especially when shooting sports stories. I'll take a few ventilation ports and even a small fan over a tiny weather sealed mirrorless body any day of the week, any season of the year!! I can see when it's going to rain and prepare for it, I can't constantly try to keep a camera from overheating when I'm shooting outside. Also, I'f you are using a small external monitor, they are not weather sealed anyway so what's the point for us video shooters? So, I guess I'll stick to the Pocket4K for now. None of the producers I work for seem to have any issues with the colour difference between the FX9 and P4k........no reason to change.

Well I got R6 pre-ordered.. C200 and R still gonna be the main workhorse, i might try borrow ninja v and see how that goes for extended shooting.

I might get R6 instead, the Sony yellow is still there on A7SIII, and R6's quality is way sharper than A7SIII in 4K, much better IBIS. at 25600 ISO R6 still as clean as A7SIII and sharper.. you barely can read the text on A7sIII but R6 is really clear

Winner winner chicken dinner. It sounds like this camera has more traditional overheating problems, such as when in direct sun. The odd thing about the Canon is it seems to overheat at the exact same time regardless of direct sun or indoors. Sony needs to get rid of the low light NR though. Thats a killer.

The A7S blows the R5 in low light (expected) The R5 beating the A7S in rolling shutter? I did not expect that. That IBIS comparison though... Sony is years behind on that. And the R5 beating the Sony in overheating outside? Sounds almost weird..!

Uh oh. Here we go.

"Crushing" seems a bit hyperbolic. It definitely has advantages, but so does the S1H.

While some of you are underwhelmed, I'm elated as long as 4k 120p works as stated. I've been hoping for a camera that can do that along with excellent autofocus. Great for wildlife filming! Yes, 30 min limitation but I can live with that as long as I don't have to shut the camera off afterwards to let it cool down for 2 hours. I'm being cautiously optimistic.

I'm sorry, I just can't get over that upside down sony when the screen is flipped out. It is so obnoxious. It's this kind of lack of attention to detail coupled with the fugly menu system that just makes me question the designers. You are right Andrew, there is no soul to this camera. At least with the S1 you get a beautifully designed, rugged body which makes you want to shoot. Pending the heat management, though, this looks like a solid corporate camera for people who care about form factor. It doesn't crush anything. The s1h is netlfix approved camera for a reason and is reliable. We are yet to see what this will do other than a puff piece. People who judge a camera just on specs make me cringe.

I wouldn't worry about the specs of other cameras, the S1H is a known reliable workhorse ,the R5 seems like an unreliable show pony that I can't see anyone using on a serious video production, the A7s3 looks more solid but we're yet to see what the time restrictions with heat management mean for shooting times... As mentioned above the 4k60p on the R5 is bad, better to have a high quality crop than a sub standard full frame image. And yes the RAW update will take this camera above the other 2 for cheaper more efficient and reliable RAW if that's your thing. 4k 120p is not something I would use very often I'm already cringing at the amount of unmotivated slow mo that is going to be filling up Youtube - but if it's really important then let's see what the quality of the Sony is. All the S1H is really lacking over the other 2 is good AF imho

Quoting @Andrew Reid's op-ed posting: "But it’s not the space-age camera some were anticipating from the rumours. " After the R5 debacle, I'd say: fortunately.... (Which means that I agree with Andrew's conclusions.)

A lot of it does come down to expense and time. 1080p Prores is easy to process and has plenty of detail and especially color information for most people. Almost any computer can process it. Manual focus lenses are cheaper than AF lenses. And older ones are plenty sharp for most work. Super 16 zoom lenses are cheap and have a very wide range making it easy to get coverage without switching lenses. They are also easier to focus with a deeper depth of field. Shooting slower and more deliberately means you don't have to shoot as much. People gave me some s*** for buying a old Sony F3. I bought it to save me time on set. I don't have to rig it up like a DSLR. I don't have to worry about HDMI's breaking, the tripod plate coming loose, or the battery running out in the middle of a take meaning I have to take my rig apart. I put it on the tripod, put a battery in it, and I'm good to go. I think the reason a lot of people are going back to these cameras is because they know them, it's a pleasing image to their eye right out of camera, clients aren't demanding 4K, and it saves them time achieving the look they want which means it saves them money in the end.

Not all 10bit is created equal......even among the 4:2:2 flavours. I have no issues working with 10bit ProRes files or XAVC files from the FX9 and FS7 but the crap that comes out of the GH5 has given me grief in the past. That's purely for display purposes. You can still edit 4:2:2 on a machine with an RTX card just fine. GTX cards don't support it either and I edit 4:2:2 material often on a laptop with a GTX1660 card. If you need 10bit 4:2:2 output to a monitor, use a cheap Blackmagic Ultrastudio Mini monitor to get 10bit to your supported monitor.

For myself personally shooting wildlife, all I'm looking for is a camera that does 120p 4k reliably with good autofocus and good ergonomics. I've been using a Z Cam E2 and it's been a good fit but it's bulky and no autofocus. The A7SIII with the Sony 200-600mm lens appears to be an excellent fit for me as long as I can shoot all day with it. I could have easily gone back to my roots with Canon since I still own the 600mm f/4 lens, but three strikes and you are out: Unreliable due to overheating in 4k 120p Ridiculously large files/hard to edit Footage reveals it is incredibly soft in 4k 120p Now if Sony can avoid those three, I'll be more than happy with the A7SIII for what I do. It would have been nice to have a 20 MP sensor for stills, but I'll work around that by carrying two bodies with me at all times: A9 and A7SIII.

B&H accidentally leaked the video, look like 4k 120p is 422 10bit internal?

Please keep that shit head off my forum.

The article is way too detailed and sheds a lot of new info not rumoured anywhere such as the new XAVC-SI & HS codecs, 16-bit ProRes RAW via HDMI 2.1, new AF system.. and thermal cutoff times. So what is there to gather? A7S3 WILL OVERHEAT. Just less than R5. 4K60p FF no crop = 1 hour 4K120p crop = 30mn Now let’s wait and see how that translates into real world use. Battle ain’t over IMO.

or buy an ipad pro!

ZCam are 4:2:0 10bit h265 afaik.... thus HW accelerated on NVIDIA 10xx and 20xx platform....

B&H video is basically one big Sony commercial. Salesman in the video would literally have you sign a mortgage if he could. Zero critical thinking. We’ll have to wait for more independent sources to know it’s potential flaws, especially real world overheating limits. But anyways, video confirms all the rumors and puts an end to speculation. We finally have a Sony Alpha camera with 10-bit ALL-I codecs & 4K HFR. Enhanced AF. Touch AF. New menus. About time. Still I can’t help but not feel too much excitement. Maybe I’m just being conservative because after a 6 month Canon hype train we were met with utter disappointment. Or maybe it’s because it feels Sony is playing catch-up. I mean Panasonic, Fuji & now Canon all offer 10-bit & 4K60p. And with at least twice or more MP for stills. Just doesn’t feel so special. Of course there is a lot to like here as well, but after a 4 year wait and for a whopping 4200€.. I guess I was really hoping my expectations would be exceeded.. but instead they were just met. All that said, if indeed the thermal balance is double that of Canon and there are no nasty surprises, I will most likely pull the trigger.

So 30min before overheating in 4k120p and 1.1 crop. Should we sue Sony? Lol. Joke appart I like that the 4K60p is good to go without overheating and that it’s full pixel readout and doesn’t need crazy expensive memory cards. However 12mpx for stills is not enough for me, so I would have to keep my A7III. Not as good as having everything in one with the Canon. Not to mention poor IBIS. Yet if the Canon cannot record a min of video after you shoot 30 pics.... So what I am gonna do is I’ll keep my R5 order, test it in my real world usage and if it’s unusable I’ll return it and if it ends up being fine I’ll happily keep it. It’s perfect cause it’s summer now. If I can shoot pictures and small 20 seconds 4K120p clips for 3H straight outside then it’s a go. If not then I guess it’s gonna be another 5 years before I get my dream camera lol.

BTW, a simple solution is to own a camera that has audio input and a headphone jack. ie.: The GH5. However, this still presents an issue in that you're only recording audio when you're recording video. As a documentarian, I really would rather have audio recording non-stop...just to make sure I get all the audio, you know. Still, the GH5 is a good half-measure. I recently transitioned away from the GH5 to an Olympus EM10III with no audio recording options, so now I'm curious for the type of device mentioned above. Always something about hybrid gear not quite doing what you want it to, but I'm glad I'm shooting with a smaller camera. That's my preference. You can imagine that I think this is a fine idea; probably not alone in this either. Good luck.

Who knows, maybe Sony will sell you a fridge to keep your Canon camera in?

It s hard for me to understand why someone who need to record something for more than 30min would need a hybrid camera to start with, I mean that what C100/Fs5 are for and have much better ergonomics for interview/ event coverage.( especially regarding audio recording) They are cheaper as well and have plug and play recording formats. For me the advantage of a good hybrids are to be discreet and offer some help for run and gun situations ( stabilisation, good DR, descent codecs), and easy to carry around. I shoot mostly MV and fashion related work ( did some interviews and video portraits as well as small commercials ), I on average the camera run for 2 to 3 minutes per take. Keeping the camera recording non stop is plain stupid and end up being more expensive once you start editing.

Well now that we know A7S3 will have thermal cutoffs, we need to focus on what we learned from the R5/R6 debacle. Meaning how long and under what temp condition does 4K60p/K120p reach overheat? What are the recovery times? Will 4K24p always be available? Will 10-bit 4K24p cause heating up? Regardless, it looks like 1DX3 & S1H are still the only FF hybrids with internal 10-bit that don't overheat.. disappointing. I still don't know what new camera to choose lol.

Nokishita leaked a press sheet: At the heart of the new Alpha is a 12 megapixel full-frame sensor that has been improved compared to the Alpha 7S II. Sony is now opting for a construction with back exposure (BSI), with which more light can be captured and which enables better results with low light shots. The maximum sensitivity is still ISO 409.600 (expandable down to up to ISO 40). The sensor is supported by the new BIONZ-XR processor, which is said to have eight times as much computing power as the previous image processor. Sony is also breaking new ground in operation: For the first time in the Alpha 7 series, a fully moveable monitor (3.0 inches, 1.44 million points) was installed, which now also allows touch operation of the menus. The structure of the menus has also been completely revised; among other things, only the relevant entries are available in photo and video mode for better clarity. The OLED viewfinder achieves a record resolution of 9.44 million points and a magnification of 0.9x. Even glasses wearers have the entire picture in view, the size of the picture can also be reduced. 4K with 120p One focus of the camera is video recording. Unlike Canon with the EOS R5, Sony does not use 8K for video, but continues to use 4K, which is said to achieve the best results so far with an alpha camera. The sensor’s 12 MP resolution enables a full-pixel readout without pixel binning and without crop up to 4K / 60p. In this setting, the recording limit should be one hour without overheating – the EOS R5 only manages 30 minutes at 4K / 60p. The video recording of the Alpha 7S III in 4K / 120p mode is limited to this length The monitor can be swiveled, and the handle and controls have become larger, as with other cameras of the third Alpha generation. With Full HD, the Alpha 7S III even records at up to 240p. For time-lapse recordings, lower frame rates up to 1p can also be selected in S&Q mode. It is recorded internally with a color subsampling of 4: 2: 2 and a color depth of 10 bits. New codecs are available: XAVC-S-I records single images (All-I) with a data rate of up to 500 Mbits / s, XAVC-HS reduces the amount of data in image group compression to 200 Mbit / s thanks to H.265 compression. With HDMI 2.1, the camera can even output 4K / 60p as 16-bit raw files (ProRes Raw) to an Atomos recorder. Of course there is also a logarithmic gamma profile available (S-Log 2/3), which should enable a dynamic range of over 15 f-stops; the sensitivity starts here at ISO 640 (extended: ISO 160). According to Sony, the rolling shutter effect has been significantly minimized. The Alpha 7S III is equipped with a 5-axis image stabilizer in the housing, which, measured according to the CIPA standard, achieves an effectiveness of 5.5 f-stops; In video mode, digital stabilization (active mode) is also used, which also uses a gyro sensor. The information from this gyro sensor can also be stored in the metadata of the videos so that it can be used in post-processing for digital stabilization. Fast autofocus and 10 frames/s The hybrid autofocus covers 92% of the image sensor and uses 759 phase detection points and 425 with contrast AF. In addition to human, the AF algorithms now also recognize animal eyes – according to Sony, also at a greater distance than before. The AF sensitivity goes down to -6 EV series, the camera shoots at up to 10 frames / s. The mechanical shutter is designed for 1/8000 s. Sony is using two memory card drives in the Alpha 7S III for the first time, which can use both SD cards (UHS-II) and the new CFexpress type A cards. They are smaller than Type B cards and faster than SD cards. For most video modes, SD cards of video classes V60 and V90 are sufficient; CFexpress is only required in S&Q mode with 4: 2: 2 color subsampling and 10 bit color depth. The series mode also benefits from the faster cards; 1000 uncompressed raws in a row should be possible here. Sony plans to launch two CFexpress Type A cards on the market in September, which have a write speed of 700 MB / s and a read speed of 800 MB / s: The 80 GB version is said to be 230 euros, the 160 GB version 440 Cost euros and supplies electricity for 600 photos or 95 minutes of video.

Like Andrew pointed out many times. I find it hilarious Samsung had basically the R5 in 2014 and they exited the market. Are the camera companies that far behind, the margins that tight, they can’t move their tech forward? It’s going at a snails fucking pace. All it would take is for them to invest once to get their chips on the latest and smallest manufacturing nodes...embrace heat pipes and *shocking* clever heat sinks. It is a fucking conspiracy. Those people are delusional. One guy is mad because Gerald used the words “More bad news for the R5”. He’s an idiot. Tons of people with their head in the sand. It doesn’t help that people like Armando are releasing straight up misinformation about the capabilities of the camera and doing their best to downplay the overheating issues. Canon went all in marketing this as a hybrid video beast. Armando and others using it in a shooting setting more suited for EOS cinema cameras. The Sony A7SIII is going to spank this thing with the mere ability to record video after shooting 50 stills in an hour. LOL

The comments on dpreview Canon forum on the R5/6 are predictable enough. Including: + Reviewers just don't like Canon generally (Gerald Undone who tweeted about no video after 1 hour stills usage, praised Canon C line as 'outstanding') + Covid means there's not much content around so overheating is overblown (there's never been more content around as everybody is stuck at home with nothing else to do!) + Discussing their own cooling solutions (leaf blower on set? could work) Talk about a denial being a river in Egypt.

Probably not, because Canon uses in-house manufactured chips on ancient technology/nanometer standards. That's why their sensor and codec performance always trailed the competition (particularly of big electronics manufacturers like Sony and Panasonic/Matsushita) in the past. Now they're apparently overdriving their technology in a desperate attempt of trumping their competition on the spec sheet/feature list.

My R5 pre-order is 0.1% away from a very sad death. Just imagining a scenario when you turn up to shoot, the client says "would you mind getting a few stills for us first before the slo-mos?", and you're like "erm... where's the nearest fridge?"

Maybe Panasonic would be willing to trade the S1H “fan technology” for DPAF. Fair trade!

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I wonder if Sony will put S-Cinetone in the A7sIII/H or if they’ll just release a new version of the already weird colors, keeping the tradition of non consistency alive. This matters much more than 8K raw imho.