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These recent camera releases have resulted in a significant amount of velocity and trolling right across the web. Every camera is good these days. Every single one. Nor is a single one of them “underwhelming”, why has the bar suddenly been raised so high? Because Canon put 8k in a mirrorless? The S1H, the A7SIII, the R5, the X-T4 all have a purpose to fit your needs. If you can’t shoot good footage with them, the issue isn’t the camera. If one of these does n’t fit your needs, buy something else. I get excited about cameras, but they are just cameras. They are worthless without artists, documentary filmmakers, journalists, Youtubers.... the audience mostly doesn’t give a f**k what it was shot on - as long as it looks good, sounds good and provides value in form of information or entertainment. That time arguing over cameras could be better spent on learning more about lighting, composition, sound or editing styles. Sure, I did pre-order the R5 and cancelled it. Instead I’ve swapped it for 2 A7SIII’s because they fulfil a creative need. And it’s not the end of the world if it’s all just hype - the EVA1 and GH5 still exist and allow me to create on every shoot. For the argumentative, trolls and naysayers, it’s time to get romantic about the craft again. Show us your work. Make more stuff. Have some fun. Create memories. And grow the hell up.

No camera is perfect. We all have different needs. S1H is Netflix approved as it is one of the only large sensor hybrids that check marks their capture requirements ie. Timecode, high bitrate 10-bit 4:2:2 Log, DCI 4K, Anamorphic support. Of course the fact it has an active cooling system and won't overheat doesn't hurt. Narrative work rarely requires AF lenses so AF simply isn't an issue. It also has all the cine cam features like LUT assist, vector scopes etc. But for hybrid shooters, solo video shooters, vloggers, youtubers etc. AutoFocus is crucial, especially in FF which rules out the Pannys. R5 vs A7S3. Tough call. On paper, R5 should destroy A7S3. It has 45MP, 8K, DCI 4K, Better IBIS, better ergonomics, internal RAW. ..but in the real world, all that means nothing if your camera can't operate because it overheated. so by default, it would seem A7S3 wins. However if you're an outdoor shooter in warm weather, A7S3 may overheat even faster than R5. and when A7S3 overheats, it completely shuts off while it appears R5 allows you to switch to pixel-binned 4K.. but HQ recovery times are long. A7S3 does appear to be the safer bet if you're hard pressed for an upgrade. But if you already have an A73, is 12MP non-oversampled 4K really worth the 4200€ investment? Maybe for the HFR & 10-bit. I'll let you be the judge. Personally I'm not rushing in to buy either, hate being a beta-tester to first gen e-products.

I’d suggest the Sigma 18-35 1.8 You won’t find a shaper prime plus you’ll get 18mm 24mm 28mm and 35mm all in one at f1.8

Not asked of me I know, but if it was not for the overheating controversy (and whether that would even be an issue for my own hybrid needs I don’t know at this time), it would be my first choice right now. A pair of them matched to the RF 28-70 f2 and 85mm f2 and I’d be set and never need to change a lens or use a monopod as I do now. That 28-70 is a beast...but it’s a featherweight compared to my current combo of; Sigma 18-35, Fringer Pro, Anker powerbank and monopod (with XT3). Replace all 4 of those items with the 28-70 f2 would be a dream. And that is my consideration, - the sum of the whole kit and not just the camera body. The Sony looks good as a pure video tool, but has 3 strikes against it for me; colour, IBIS, 12mp. Could I live with it? Maybe, but only if it was the best option out there and for me it isn’t. My hope is they either sort the Canon or at the very least it turns out to be OK for my needs. The XH2 will need to have zero compromises to beat a sorted version of this Canon. And I’m a Fuji fan.

I mean it should be one of the best photo cameras with 16 bit color, dynamic range, and noise performance. As long as you don't print large.

I think a resolution that has slightly less pixels than a camera I purchaed over 10 years ago is a step back for photo use. When a Pocket 6K video camera gives high res stills than a hybrid Professional camera costing twice more, also seems like going backwards than forward. Ultimately what is a decent resolution depends on your needs. If I replace my GH5 with a fullframe mirrorless hybrid, I want it to take my work into 2021, not 2009.

For all the people that believe that Cine camcorder markets and mirrorless markets don't overlap. I'm a perfect example that the DO. I sold my Sony FS7 and was literally 2 days away from buying a Panasonic EVA-1. Then Lumix announced the S1H and that stopped be cold in my tracks. I wound up buying the S1H instead and I'm perfectly happy about replacing my FS7 and (almost) EVA-1 with the S1H. I pre-ordered the A7S-III because I want one of my cameras to have PDAF and will add it as B-cam to my S1H. The rumored Sony FX6? Sounded tempting at first....but with the A7S-III, I no longer have any use for an FX6. Yeah...the mirror less and pro camcorder markets DO overlap....substantially.

The S1H is hardly a completely different camera and experience to the A7sIII and R5. Its still another hybrid, with admittedly poorer AF than the competition; but still comparable. We all have different needs and requirements. Mine is long form recording, making the R5 less desirable to me as the S1H is less for you due to your own needs. If you're a hybrid shooter that needs higher pixel count for photos than 12MP, you won't be looking at the A7sIII. Comparing these cameras is only natural as features on one will be desired in the other. I agree the Netflix talk was totally irrelevant to this particular discussion.

I don’t get this idea. The person that knows they need a C200/300/500 are not going to buy an R5 in place of it! They are separate markets. Typically someone that is in the market for a R5 isn’t going to be like, shit, I’ll spring and spend an extra $10,000 for the C500. If anything they will buy what they need, C200/300/500 and get a couple of R5/6 in addition not in replacement.

Not sure if this video was posted, scrolling through the last few pages its mostly S1h/Netflix arguments that don't seem to relate to the Sony at all. As to the a7s3, if you need reliable AF, cameras like the Zcams, the Blackmagic's and likely the S1h are not something people are considering, its a completely different type of camera and shooting experience. Nothing is ever going to change that until they have reliable AF. I need AF for my work, none of those will ever be a part of my kit, and I'm obviously not alone. The excitement over this and the R5/6 is because you're combining great IQ with great AF with bitrates that many Sony shooters have wanted for years. Continually injecting cameras like Blackmagic's or Netflix approval into the discussion is just noise. Nobody is buying the a7s3 or a Pocket 4k for that matter to shoot the next season of Ozark. You're buying this over other options if you're already invested in the E-mount ecosystem and want the best video option without having to lug around one of the larger FS/FX cameras - or if you want reliable AF for your work. Bonus the E-mount has the widest selection of native AF lenses that's more comprehensive than all other FF options combined. And with all the 3rd party support combining MF and AF lenses from Zeiss/Tamron/Sigma/Voigtlander/Samyang and others, that gap will keep getting wider. Second bonus if you shoot stills, the E-mount has you covered with a some of the best photo options money can buy. I put this on my 65" TV, this guy put it through its paces and shot tons of 120p, no surprise since its one of the standout features. Just wish the poster had enabled captions - even YT's sometimes weird autocaption - so we can get a partial translation. But this looks like a proper review. Chris

Bmpcc 6k is the best bang for your buck. Cinematography is an art. The Blackmagic makes the most beautiful image and gives life and art to the image. If I were a painter, the 6k would be the brightest colour on my palette. The others are garish and utilitarian. Ibis, autofocus should not be considerations unless you have a job to do. But they have nothing to do with the art of cinematography, which has never needed these things and which is detrimental in most cases. So it is illogical for two people to argue over which camera is better when their objectives are different. A painter will go through the most trouble to get a unique and beautiful image. He will not pick a tool which allows him to make a pretty picture with the least effort but one that looks identical to others. If your aspirations are high then that is what you should aim for. If not then that is fine too but let us not delude ourselves.

Brand preference plays a part. However I feel expectations are raised not to excessive levels, but merely the hope that a hybrid camera could be released that wasn't flawed in a significant way. The S1H is a superb camera, undermined by poor AF, a complaint you couldn't make against the R5 and R6, which is undermined by overheating, something the S1H doesn't suffer from. The A7sIII overheats also, and its photo function is limited to 12MP, which is a put off to some. Plus its IBIS is inferior to Canon and probably Panasonic, and its colour science isn't to everyone's liking. Somewhere between all these cameras is an excellent tool for all of us. It is frustrating to see cameras so close to getting it right, yet due to the decisions made in the design, to miss the mark ever so slightly. Can these cameras all be used. Of course they can. There are already videos shot by the R5 despite the overheating. However any cameras shortcomings will be a deterant to some, who had hoped to add that camera to their equipment. Dissapointment drives some complaints here and sounding off on forums like these doesn't mean we are not going out and filming, or learning new things. Gear discussion is always going to be a part of our craft. They maybe just tools, but the specs of those tools will either aid or hinder our work. My Pocket 4K would be much more useful with a great AF, a screen I could see outside and better battery life. How is that not important to my shooting. Discussions about these limits not only inform new buyers but also can lead to workarounds. Even if there is ultimately a lot of nonsense posts in between.

What if the R5 did not overheat would you still go the A7S III route?

Sounds like a Sony PMW-F3 😉 If you're a low budget videographer, the OG Pocket still makes a lot of sense. Or if you are traveling, then OG Pocket is much more compact in you carry on bag than an URSA Mini And with range finding tools too:

So I came into a little bit of money recently and ended up ordering this camera (preowned of course). I've only had it for a few hours now but I'm pretty excited. The capabilities and ease of use of this thing are pretty incredible. I'm primarily using this for stills but the video has good potential for casual usage. The crop modes actually work in video (both 1080 and 4k) and the detail is pretty good, although in 4k and 1080p120 there is obvious aliasing. This is a still from a DCI 4k capture. As you can see from the blockiness of the shadows the dynamic range is limited but I'm impressed with the colour, which looks quite true to life. One thing I used to dislike about the Fuji's is that the different hues and shades of plants would get lost and merge into an ugly green. Because the crop mode works in video, you conveniently get a 28mm f1.7, 35mm f2, 50mm f3 and 75mm f4.5 in a small body (although 1080p at 75mm looks terrible). It should be a great camera for taking on hikes or going to social events.

i'll do it tonight with the p4k, but with spray and wipe 😉, was going to shoot the moon anyway. So it shouldn't be much of a deviation

Its all good! MOST concerts i have photographed I could have done with ANY camera made just about. The difference (for me anyway) is when I am at a really low light one (I would have LOVED my A7s when at a gig in club in Brisbane a few years ago that was lit by shaded table lamps. I got a Canon 17mm tilt shift lens to use at gigs so i could get a shot of every band member in focus and covered by DOF from right next to the stage and because it is f4 and stopped down sometimes even to f8, when I am in a lower light gig all the other cameras I have used would not be much use. I used my (now sold) GX7 alongside my A7s at a few gigs and it did ok but only with faster lenses. I also use the camera and 17 tilt shift for walk around at night and for things like light shows and light projections (that can need faster shutter speeds while still being quite dimly lit). There is no other lens i could use for that (Nikon 19 PCE maybe excepted) and not many cameras i would want to use it on either (have to be FF with decent high ISO). Also from time to time for low light sports with a faster shutter speed needed. The projection isn't the best shot (just one I had handy) but is ISO 51200 and at 1/30 and 5.6. Because the lens is shifted, it would have been better stopped down a bit more and I could not really go below 1/30 because of the speed of the moving projections. The four photos range from about ISO 2000 to ISO 40000 (this was used by a newspaper when that place closed down...it had a brilliant stage that bands from everywhere loved). The Kasey Chambers (and band) shot is ISO 25600 and f7.1 to get them all in focus and at a fast enough shutter speed and remember I am very close to the nearest guitarist.

Some more details from the manual. It looks like IQ of images are reduced first before it gets to the point of total shutdown. I suspect reviewers are not realizing this.

Indeed, I believe a workaround is anyhow inevitable. It doesn't make any sense, otherwise.

LOL This is a real user's experience from real world... :- )

(Canon R5 Me Too signature edition...)

https://variety.com/2019/film/reviews/lillian-review-1203227609/

I have the Sony 18-105 f4 and it is a very good all rounder, particularly for a one lens travelling setup. With it having the zoom rocker and with the clear image zoom extending that range on to about 210mm, it effectively turns the A series cameras into APS-C camcorders. The downside is that it is f4, although I'd rather have a constant f4 than a variable f3.5-f5.6 which would be common with a lens like this. With it being f4, you aren't going to get shallow depth of field at the wide end but you do actually get decent separation and smooth bokeh at the long end. The OSS and AF work well but whilst its by no means a soft lens its definitely fair to say it could be a bit sharper but thats less of an issue for video than it is for stills. The focus by wire is a bit rough but that comes with the territory. Also, its quite hefty in size if not weight so it can make the A series cameras feel a bit unbalanced but I don't mind it being a bit of a lump as it aids stability as far as I'm concerned when its planted in your hand. This video is a very decent and fair view of its pros and cons. With regard to the Sigma, I haven't got that one but I've yet to see anyone who has have anything but fulsome praise for it. If you are looking for an interesting bargain for E mount, one Sigma I do have is the now discontinued Sigma 60mm Art f2.8 which you can pick up very cheaply secondhand now and you'll have few regrets checking one of those out.

Correct. If someone is uninformed, I would encourage them to read up on the field tests and all the information I put in the one place here. No offence intended. https://www.eoshd.com/news/a-round-up-of-all-canon-eos-r5-r6-overheating-timings-and-field-tests/

All I know, right now, is that Canon and spineless YouTube influencers are trying to tell us half truths and lots of lies. I will let early users and non-paid reviewers give us the realm picture. From reasonably honest reviewers, it isnt looking very good for Canon. For a camera they have had in the offing since Adam and Eve, that isn't a good sign. And especially when they were all over, even before they actually released. Dependability should be the No.1 requirement for a camera, especially for this price point and the targeted demographics.

Little bit of digression - just to remind when camera (here cheap Sony) is in service of talent/idea, not about going to specs war for 4500e Hybrid (Bullshit) Lords

Which seems to corroborate the idea that Canon is recalling its R5 and R6 lineup, due to terrible heat management issue. Heating up is Not the issue, the inability to cool down, even after the camera has been switched off is.

How come Sony didn't reach out to Andrew for an early access test unit? All of these "influencers" are suspiciously positive about the camera

You can use that argument to justify any camera weakness.. why worry about the R5 overheating, when most video shooters will have a proper cinema camera to hand to shoot longer content. I've read that argument a lot lately. Or real Video creators don't use AF to justify poor or lack of any AF... Your argument is just the same thing in a different package. If I want a hybrid camera that can shoot great video and photos at a decent resolution applicable to 2020 and not 2008, and don't want 2 bodies, the A7sIII won't cut it. Its as big an obstacle to me as a lack of AF is for you. Of course there are workarounds. There are workarounds for the Pocket 4K deficiencies that I use, workarounds for the S1H and even the R5. That's not the point, which is that no camera is perfect, but depending on our needs, it can be god enough for our use.

"Cinema Line" of any camera manufacturer is not only about picture quality. It's also about reliability, workflow standards, service reaction time... FX9 is at the bottom of Sony cinema line, a one-man-show camera. But it borrows the 6k sensor from the top Venice and the lens mount is cinema modified. That alone might cost more than A7s. It also has unique functions like electronic auto ND filter. In October it will get firmware 2.0 and RAW hardware. A7s bricked on one tester when he put the overheating control option to "off". The media were destroyed. Why would Sony even enable such a function? Will they remove it after some productions lose their media? Fortunately Canon R5 does not allow to shoot past the danger point.

Yes, and if you look at the sensor spec sheet it looks like it can do 4K60p 10-bit just as the Zcam E2 M4 offers. Probably a lack of processing or heat concerns in the GH5S body. Also, looking at the bit depth and 2K readouts I never go above 120p either as the noise is unacceptable in almost anything that isn’t perfect conditions. So I would recommend shooting max 100p PAL or 96fps NTSC. Anything higher and you drop into 10-bit sensor output.

Yeah, that would be a great little product. If they extend the functionality to be able to operate the Pocket camera controls from the studio end as you can with the ATEM then BM would sell a lot of cameras at the moment to broadcasters having to bring in remote feeds from talent who are working from home and may not be the most camera tech savvy !

The mighty FD 1.2 55mm Apsherical was sold right after listing it in my shop. I only had a single day to spent with it. All shots here are with 1.2 to demonstrate its performance. I used Panasonic's Nicest 709 VariCam LUT with basic lumetri corrections. All handheld. The Aspherical version of this lens is indeed quite sharper fully open in comparison to the only S.S.C. 55mm. Sadly, it has also become quite expensive and rare.

I think the next L-mount camera released from Panasonic will make it or break it for them in the FF market. They are in a bit of a pickle. The Sigma fp is competing with them on the artistry side. People that like or want a MF camera with ALL-I, RAW, to tinker with and shoot passion projects with. Their FF S cameras were pretty much ignored professionally by photographers. I’m not saying there aren’t people out there using and loving their S1/R, but I highly doubt it sold well.

I paid around 2900 € for a brand new S1H. The 24-70 f2.8 S Pro I paid 1750€ brand new, with a promotional 500€ cashback from Panasonic France it cost me 1250 euros, so I paid half the price (the price of the Sigma 24-70 2.8 actually) !! It's a little retailer in Paris that doubles as the official repair center for Panasonic and Tamron. Sometimes they have some brand new refurbished products. They resell them with 2 years warranty and a discount price.

Wow, they're pumping out fast new variations! (and they can't even keep up with the current batches of orders) How long until the ATEM Mini 4K??

I feel like the GH6 could do well if it matches the A7s3 specs, plus all Panasonic's usual high end video features and full Vlog. That plus a much lower $1500 price point, it would definitely have an audience. A lot of vloggers love Pana IBIS, if they could just get their AF together they'd get a pretty good share of that market I'd guess. All these recent cameras are great but they all have close to $4000 price tags.

Cameras are such a small cost in the grand scheme of a production. The camera isn't gonna make the movie sell more and that's all people really care about. Like if you get approved to shoot a Netflix show, the camera you use will be the last thing on your mind. Unless you are an insane camera enthusiast like us on here. 🤣

Yeah, my point was just that while technically 23.976 is not 24.0 fps... for 99.9% of projects its all the same thing. And only the technicians such as DP and Editor care. I can't speak for every production in NTSC land but unless you are specifically targeting a DCP delivery, I don't know of anyone who shoots or edits at 24.0. It is interesting what you bring up regarding Youtube and other streaming platforms being mostly frame rate agnostic and just delivering whatever frame rate. I know I've watched PAL stuff on Youtube at 25fps. However, I'll still argue that NTSC 30fps and PAL 25fps are legacy formats from the broadcast days and not something a modern project should be using. Totally up to you. I still don't believe that "motion cadence" in the sense that frames are recorded at slightly variable timings which can be perceived or measured in any meaningful way is real. I do believe in jitter/strobing effects in high contrast scenes, rolling shutter, and users setting bad shutter angles which in turn lead to "motion cadence" issues. I think playback devices can contribute, and can also see how the dynamic range of a camera could affect perceived jitter due to clipping or contrast issues. That said, I'm still very interested to see if you can find the motion cadence unicorn. If you do run any kind of measurable test using an oscilloscope, pendulum, or consistently measurable device, I'm happy to run it through SynthEyes if it helps verify results.

Funnily enough FCPX doesn’t use the term ‘bins’ since its redesign. And the convention changes (other than missing features) were what caused the uproar with its initial release. I agree there are conventions in everything especially software, but Premiere for example is much more steeped in old conventions vs FCPX (think magnetic timeline), and Resolve is somewhere in between in my experience. I am also glad we have (good) conventions.

This video has some really beautiful A7SIII footage in there, and a lot of it. A couple of wonky skin tones but mostly lovely colours. It’s in Chinese.

Obviously, its funny that you should say that....

Not really. I never asked for 8K... or even 120fps 4K.. maybe some did, I didn't. In fact, what I was hoping for was a Canon version of the S1H camera with their own colour science and AF. Still waiting....

For the life of me I can't find his comments on YT. However, if you watch the film on MUBI, you'll get to see an interview with Herzog and Roc Martin, the producer of the film, AFTER the movie ends. It's about 10 minutes long and I suspect is only available on that streaming platform. That's where he mentions he used a "tiny 4K camera with many profesional audio inputs". Being a nerd I immediately scoured the internet in search of some additional data on the subject, since Herzog generally talks a lot about cameras and lenses. I could only find a production photo of the movie. You can clearly see it's a very small Canon 4K cam, most probably an XA50 or XF400 in the second photo starting from the top: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/werner-herzog-family-romance-llc-working-baby-yoda-1301774

For the love of God anything but Mini DV again!!!! 😆 On a more serious note, the "old" camera the OP mentions is 100% digital. It's only only old by short term technology standards, not by any artist's standards (except maybe if your last name is Nolan or Abrams). It's YOUR vision. YOU decide if you film it with S16 or a stupid iPhone. If you're a creator that decision should be liberating, not gut-wrenching. If it's the latter, you're more of a technician. Nothing wrong with that, just different from the first group. I recently watched Herzog's latest film/documentary called "Family Romance, LLC". It's good. Not Grizzly Man good, but on point. The man shot the entire thing in the middle of Tokyo as a one-man-band with a "crappy" Canon XA50/XF400. He was fascinated by the lowly camcorder because it gave him what he wanted: good AF, XLR inputs, 4K and portability. Check his comments on YouTube. He does not name the brand, but you can see it's a Canon in the production photos. A Canon consumer camcorder in 2020!

My review is coming up soooon. www.youtube.com/anamorphiconabudget

Speaking of Voigtlander, I'm (finally) editing the trip we took to India in late 2018 and pulled out a few hero shots and did a basic grade to get a feel for the project and to get some inspiration. That was the first trip I took with the GH5 and Voigtlander 17.5mm and one of the concerns that I had was low light performance as the GH5 isn't known for it, but it wasn't until I got back to the hotel and looked at this footage that I realised how good the combination really is. Here's a sample grab of the tour guide when we went to Varanasi to watch the nightly religious celebrations and see the cremations on the shore. No idea if it was wide-open or not, but this is a basic grade, some NR, and some film grain over the top, no sharpening applied, and it's even got a small negative amount of mid-tone detail. GH5 was in 150Mbps 4K IPB and HLG. I can't recommend these lenses enough.

Pretty amazing update. And without the year-long saga like the Z6. Looking forward to footage. Chris

I totally agree with your analysis, @Andrew Reid. RED is shooting itself in the foot by patent-trolling other camera manufacturers who implement raw video recording. They should continue making their high-profit margin cameras for the professional cine market and, instead of burning their money on nonsense like the Hydrogen phone, offer attractive license packages for their RAW codec so that it becomes a prosumer industry standard. Everyone would profit, RED probably the most. As a long-time Linux user, I am reminded of the company SCO (which owned the copyrights of the historical Unix source code) and its attempt to patent-troll and bully Linux development through a gigantic lawsuit - and ended up going out of business because of that.

Exactly. I hope they'll continue to develop it and introduce this kind of codecs into their future cameras, as well. Seconding that. To me, Panasonic S1 is a hugely underrated tool. Everyone quickly jumped to the S1H bandwagon and forgot all about the basic model. If I were to upgrade from X-T3, most likely I'd choose the S1.