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So going back to the actual internal design of the EOS R5... The questions Canon need to answer are: 1. Why is a circuit board sitting between the main CPU and back casing, blocking the heat from spreading away into the chassis 2. Of course, why is there no thermal conductive material on the CPU? 3. And why does the RAM thermal pad overlap onto the CPU, but not entirely cover it? (It seems to spread the heat from the RAM onto the CPU which is never a good idea). 4. Why does ice not cool the camera and speed up recovery time? The firmware recovery countdown timer is so slow to go back up and always the same. And indeed they will be asked via my contact at Canon UK. And I won't let up until they answer. If they don't answer, they have something to hide obviously.

This thread details the teardown process, modifications made and some important findings: http://c.tieba.baidu.com/p/6848700307?pn=1 He replaced the two thermal pads that did not fully cover the CPU with a dollop of thermal paste and noticed significantly better and more even heat dissipation. Most important finding: despite the temperature drop and improved heat dissipation, 8K/4K HQ still cut off at 20min mark, suggesting a firmware limit is also in place.

once people dig deep enough into the firmware we're gonna find cripplehammer.exe

A7SIII is the closet FF camera that has come to pulling me out of MFT land as a primary camera. The 12MP sensor kinda kills it for me. I wish it was closer to 20MP for photography. 15MP might have been doable... MFT still has steam in it for at least one more round of GH and GX cameras. I honestly think they are waiting for a more compelling MFT sensor from Sony. That, or they are experimenting with doing something funky with S35 or preparing a FF S L-mount camera that will replace the MFT GH cameras. So I wait for news on GH6 camera while still happily enjoying my 5S. BTW, since this thread hasn’t been derailed enough already. Here is a shot from my first outing out with the 7Artisans 60mm macro. I sipped coffee with my hand on the shutter for about 45 mins off and on until one lucky bee came along.

That is evident. Ah so it's ok then. The whole release is hyped as an 8K pro video tool with 4k 120p but because Canon slipped some best-case scenario disclaimers into a CVP video, they're off the hook! The real overheating data should go something like this: 8K from cold - 20 min if you're lucky 8K about 10 mins into a shoot - 10 mins maximum 8K after a few stills - 5 mins 8K limit after a few stills and the Wifi menu - 0 mins! And the marketing should say something like: "Getting through any kind of video shoot, even filming your pet poodle for 10 mins with the powerful new EOS R5??... You'll be lucky!" That would be far more honest in my view. But yeah, no false advertising!! Did you actually READ any of the PR or Canon website? WHY DO PEOPLE NOT READ OR LEARN BASIC FACTS BEFORE SPOUTING OPINIONS??? “On the set of high-end productions such as commercials, dramas and documentaries, the EOS R5 is an ideal partner to the likes of Canon’s brand-new EOS C300 Mark III” “Set to redefine mirrorless, today’s update confirms the incredible recording capabilities of the EOS R5 including internal 8K RAW up to 29.97fps and suitability with high-end production workflows” “The EOS R5 boasts features seen only in high-end cinema cameras many times its price point and video features no other mirrorless camera on the market offers.” “Created as a direct response to growing demand for content creators to shoot both high-quality film and stills, the EOS R5 holds its own as the lead camera in productions – going over and above industry standards and achieving outstanding 8K.” Yeah sure. Sure it does.

You are wrong. I cannot legally advertise a product I've made as a professional cinematography camera, when it is in fact a banana. I cannot please my customers or make good business selling something as "8K capable" when it isn't. To say every company does it is just not true. In fact if they tried it, they'd be on wrong side of the law and wrong side of their customers. Can you imagine the fury if your iPhone started overheating 1 hour into the day and you had to turn it off for 30 mins? I am very baffled as to why you think Canon can get away something similar... because it's a camera. No, they advertised it a certain way, and even the late admission of heat limited recording times is misleading because of how the camera behaves 10-20 mins after being switched on, or 30 mins into a stills shoot.

EOSHD testing finds Canon EOS R5 overheating to be fake, with artificial timers deployed to lock out video mode. In this test, we will probe my Canon EOS R5’s actual internal temperature in Celsius, as reported by the firmware. This week CDA-TEK and I are developing an Android app for the Canon EOS R5, which connects to the camera via the Canon API... Please read the rest of the article on the blog carefully before commenting below

Camera Conspiracies loves EOSHD

It feels like the industry as a whole has some kind of collective Stockholm Syndrome with Canon. Why do we want them to be better? Why do we want them to fix their clearly intentional choice? Why do we want to pay them money when they clearly don't care to earn it? Sony and Panasonic have been pushing the limits of hybrids for over a decade and yet many people are still hoping and praying Canon releases a patch or a fix for the R5 & R6. If you put your faith in Canon, prepare to be disappointed.

Can’t wait for Porsche to release a new 911 with 300 horsepower and a top speed of 200mph and a cruising speed of 100* *top speed only achievable on a cloudy, 24C day. Cruising speed is only for a max of 30 mins, except when in 6th gear max cruising time is 15mins. 5th gear allows unlimited cruising time but suspension is disabled and top speed is disabled.

Yesterday Amazon dropped off the last piece I needed for my Ninja V to try my own R5 / Ninja V test today. Yesterday - First attempt: Camera setup with the overheat control setting on, screen on, 4K HQ 30. No card in camera. Canon LP-E6NH battery in camera Camera was sitting in direct sun light at 97°F Continuous recording started and camera overheat warning came on at around 37 minutes or so, it shutdown at around 42 minutes, which aligns exactly with what John Gress stated in his video that Trek of Joy posted here earlier. When camera shut off, I immediately turned it back on and the camera still showed the 8K, 4K 120, and HQ options available. Makes me think it’s more of the firmware parameters set by Canon here. Camera was hot to the touch. time between test: 45 minutes to an hour Yesterday - Second attempt: Kept the settings at 4K HQ 30, screen on, but turned off the overheat control setting. No card in camera. Canon LP-E6NH battery in camera. Camera was sitting in shaded garage at 97°F Camera overheat warning appeared at 37 minutes, shutdown at 42 minutes. Camera was warm to the touch. Today - Third attempt: No prior operation before test... Camera setup 4K HQ 24p, overheat control setting off, screen on. Camera indoors in my office, with A/C on set at 72°F No card in camera. Canon LP-E6NH battery in camera. Camera overheat warning came on same time at and lasted to about 42 minutes. Camera was warm to the touch. The times I am seeing align with Geralds test, except the overheat control setting didn't seem to change much on or off, and I had no cards in camera for all recordings. Haven't tried with camera screen off, but I don't believe the Cfexpress cards are a notable factor in overheating, as believed by the ( nolifedigital ) guy.

It is always going to lag behind, because Sony crammed a FF sensor into a mount that was originally designed for APS-C

This is the nonsense I see on DpReview. Apparently the camera is excused for not working reliably as its not a Professional video camera. So why does it have 8K RAW, or 120fps 4K then? Why provide such top video features only to cripple them? And why is it so wrong to wish that they work as the customer requires, especially if you're paying over £4k for it. I have video and photo functions on my phone. Its neither a dedicated video or photo camera, yet I still expect these functions to work reliably. Basic stuff. How well would a phone do, if it advertised a limit on say web browsing. You get 15 mins then it overheats and you'll have to switch off for a few hours before you can browse again. It would be laughed at. Canons description of the overheating limits is half a story. There are some crucial inconsistencies their figures don't address. Canon offered us a hybrid camera and advertised it as such. The S1H is also a hybrid and not a true cinema camera; yet is far more reliable shooting HQ video. Compare the R5 to that and not cinema cameras and you'll see what some of us were actually hoping for.

Thanks @androidlad This is the kind of post we need more of.

This camera is an expensive EOS R mk2. Almost always you will be forced to record in the lineskipped 4K modes after one hour, no matter where you are shooting from arctic tundra to jungle. If you are ok with only having lineskipped 4K at 30p max then the camera is a OK upgrade from the EOS R. Matt Johnson from WhoIsMatt tried to use it to film a wedding. His conclusion: be absolutely prepared to be shooting 4K 30p lined skipped 4K. And if you are a real video professional, then don’t get the R5. Spend your money more wisely. Which is a real shame because a lot of other specs on this camera are very very nice. The AF is top notch, human and animal eye detection, size, weight, glass...it’s just a shame the 4K HQ isn’t the default recording mode because if it was this camera would be pretty damn amazing. I would recommend watching it. It’s one of the less bullshit filled videos out there on REAL WORLD use of the camera.

The main problem is the PCB circuit board on top of the CPU, sandwiched between that and the back casing. It is utterly lunatic design or (more likely) on purpose. The main CPU should have a thermal pad on top and direct contact to the chassis. It is akin to Nvidia putting a second PCB on top of their graphics processor so it doesn't get into contact with the heat sink, and then telling gamers "sorry but your 2080 Ti only works for 20 mins of 4K Monster Hunter World then you have to go to 720p") I find it hard to believe any engineer would be happy with this layout. The simplicity of the physics, your average 10 year old would understand. Even I understand that if I don't put my Intel CPU in direct thermal contact with a heat sink in my PC, it gets too hot. So Canon can bleat on about using the magnesium alloy case as a heat sink all day long but they didn't implement it that way. The big question is why.

It's possible they set the time limits in firmware as an ultra-conservative "make sure it doesn't burn out" cut off, based on a worst case scenario... it's the kind of thing these large corporations do. Quite why you wouldn't just design it well like the A7S iii though, I don't know. I think this is irreparable brand damage for this market sector.

They go for some nice money. Selling it could fund a Samyang 135mm F2.0:) @noone This lens comes under different labels such as Weltblick, Porst, Beroflex. Just like Samyang going under Walimex, Rokinon... There are a few jokes about this bulky beauty on the German gentleman forum. They are not gentle about some lenses, after trying so many of them.:) Now, very exited to see that Promura to see some light. Would be cool to see some footage, if you can find time. You sound like some of these German gentlemen lens afficiandos:) I dare you to not mean it as a joke! 🙂

Wow. Looks like it might be a great candidate for modification and adaptation. In this case, modifying it by taking out all the insides, sealing it up, and adapting it to be a photography-themed wine goblet!

Andrew....I have said this over and over and over again. The heat condition of the R5 is not an engineering "mistake" on Cannot's part. It is literally doing exactly as it was designed to do from day one. Cannot wants the R5 to be used only in specific ways and this does not coincide with the way "we" want to use it. We have a need that we want the R5 to fill. However, Cannot wants to sell us a different camera for our need. Yes, the firmware is deliberately highly restrictive. They are actively "steering" their customers the best way the know how with these crippling tricks. As customers, we need to stop thinking the R5 was an engineering mistake and simply let accept it as a casual camera that has zero overlap with any of their true camcorders. Cannot will never stab their Cine EOS team in the back....no matter how bad we want them to. If anybody thinks the Cine EOS team doesnt care about the R5 and was not in many of the R5 devopment meetings and planning discussions....you are crazy!

Yes that much is clear I'm afraid. To be quite honest, I don't want to hear any more bullshit from you. So please take yourself off to a different forum.

This should be the new Canon slogan. "And if you can get any video with this camera, its a bonus." Let's see how many sales that gets them vs 8K RAW!

If only Canon told us this when they first announced the camera at the start of the year. Instead of all this lovely news of 8K and 120fps 4K, and how it would unlock our filmaking, they had instead simply said - "And if you can get any video with this camera, its a bonus."

But it’s not a bonus. Even if they didn’t market the video the way they did. You literally can’t use your “bonus” most of the time. You don’t sell someone chocolate and say actually you can only eat that for 3 seconds and then you have to wait to eat a little bit more. And you don’t include 8K RAW VIDEO if the design is inadequate to actually operate it. If it was a stills camera first, then you simply don’t include those video features at all. Basically what they did with all their other 5D cameras.

Someone should tell Canon’s marketing department that.

No, it isn't a matter of opinion actually. It's a matter of objective fact and you're wrong. Where does it say in the disclosure up-front that the camera overheats in the Wifi menu waiting for a connection? Where does it say that you only get 5 mins of 8K recording after leaving the camera turned on doing nothing for about 10-15 minutes? Where does it say that the recovery times are extremely long and that not even applying ice to the back of the camera or freezing the body speeds the process up? It's a completely baloney situation. Electronics do not need 1 hour to cool down enough to get back to normal performance. You do not have to leave your laptop for an hour if the Intel CPU is thermally throttled. These are not my opinions by the way and if you want you can go and educate yourself on the factual side of semiconductors. Is a specs sheet count as "an advert"? What about the product description at B&H? It is not an advert in the sense of Red Bull gives you wings. It is completely unethical to say it has certain specs, but it's defective if you try to use it that way.

@rawshooter from your link here is co-founder Elle explaining it all. And also earlier you said db16 was really not a homebrew product but the work of some large Canadian company. Which implies that they lied and were deceptive with their kickstarter backers. “6 cameras have shipped so far. We have more built, but they each need to be hand tested and calibrated before they ship. After the holiday it should be faster and probably 3 cameras a day. There are many factors that go into shipping that have nothing to do with whether the camera is ready, like customs forms, verifying addresses, printing up invoices, physical packing, that kind of boring stuff. This pretty much says what the roles of everyone at the company are: http://www.digitalbolex.com/about/ Joe partnered with the executives at Ienso, a preexisting camera company, to create a new company called Cinemeridian. Cinemeridian has existed since 2011, which is when hardware development of the camera began. Joe, Mike (our CTO), and I essentially do the concept development of features both hardware and software, and Mike executes those. Joe is the CEO of the company. He is the actual boss. He works with Kish and Pomfort to design our lenses and software and to seek out new relationships with other companies who might want to make products for the camera, works with Mike and the engineering team to problem solve issues, does the hands-on thorough camera testing on the LA end, writes blog posts, answers questions on the forum, and does a lot of banal business stuff. Mike is a rockstar. What's funny about the suppositions in this thread is that Stelio is actually the least involved in day to day stuff on our project, as he manages the business side of Ienso and all the other projects they've done, and chimes in when we need more heads on an engineering problem. They are all awesome guys up in Canada and everyone in the company has put in a ridiculous amount of work. Source of development funds is that Ienso is financially invested in the project, and Joe has put in the funds he received from selling his half of the successful business he founded years ago. He sold his half because his previous business partner did not want to branch out into developing new imaging technology, and he believed in the future of raw. He would not have put his own money, his financial future, into this thing if he didn't believe in it 100%, and that's a very brave thing to do. Warranty is 1 year standard warranty like most consumer electronics, and will be serviced in Toronto. A few rental houses have asked if we would be interested in local US based warranty and servicing, and we'll definitely be looking into that once the first batch of cameras is out. I think it's a great accomplishment that we've done what other big camera companies have done in a shorter time with far fewer resources. That's not to say that we're perfect, we've had many problems and delays, but that's all part of starting a business. But I hope that someone who has watched our journey and decides to try something they wouldn't have previously thought possible might learn something from where we've gone right and wrong.” In summation, the company practices of digital bolex is pretty much an inverse of red. They aren’t a company that exists as a patent troll. They don’t bully or harass or threaten to sue their customers. They don’t threaten bloggers or filmmakers with legal action. And they most likely probably label their products country of origin honestly.

Thanks to everyone that helped me out. Picked up a BMMCC from @crevice and really looking forward to using it! I’ll report back here with video. -Dave

"It seems as soon as there is a card inserted, an overheating countdown timer starts, but doesn’t apply when an HDMI device is attached and the card removed" These get very fishy. I had commented in another post about suspicion and my crazy paraonic theory that the overheating limit is only a limit made by firmware, nobody believed me... Now I believe it more firmly, but we still have to wait for the truth to come out. For me, Canon's credibility is at stake in all of this.

in comparison XT3 4k 60fps ------ 16.0 ms (15.6-16.0-16.3) C200 (4k=1080p) --- 16.1 ms (4k: 15.5-16.2-16.9, 1080p: 15.5-16.0-16.6) BM p4k 4k --------- 16.2 ms (official) a7III 4k 1.2x 30p - 16.7 ms (dpreview) Definitely pretty impressive for a 45MP sensor!

Meanwhile, the EOS R is looking like the Phantom Menace of cameras. Initially greeted with widespread groans and people saying "We waited all those years for THIS?", only for people to quickly soften their opinions on it after being even more disappointed with what came next.

Any teardowns of the R6 out there yet?

I guess the more people will talk about software limitation, the more Canon will have to address the issue. @Andrew. Can you just drop the camera in your freezer and start recording? There is no way overheating should happen there except if it's a software limitation.

Meanwhile, in Sony world, we've long since discovered much the same about our cameras. The a6xxx series was thermal limited for the longest time by a lack of any heat dissipation. Once we "hacked" away the artificial time limit with the help of the OpenMemories-Tweak project [https://github.com/ma1co/OpenMemories-Tweak], we found that the bionz processing chips were sitting bare in the cameras, with not even a thermal pad to help matters. A bit of thermal paste and two copper plates made quick work of that. Now the a6000 and its older brothers are great little cmaeras with no heat issues in almost any temperature condition. Of course on their higher end models Sony claims to have solved this, but I'm happy with my older stuff 😊

Please also ask them why they decided it was necessary in the 1DX II to put a heatpipe/heatsink in but they are doing less than the bare minimum in the R5 where the camera is marketed with professional video features, in a market segment with competition delivering reliable professional video features (S1H and A7sIII). This quote from canon themselves is damning - why did they not feel the same need they did then, instead opting to release two pages of overheating documentation and ship a crippled product with clear-as-day poorly designed hardware?

Who in their right mind puts a DC-DC converter right on top of the CPU and RAM?! Moreover, it feels a little too intricate for me… There is something really fishy here…

at this point i'd take one over an eos r5 for sure 😎

Still have another premium kit to make one of us happy? Not me, of course, I would not buy another camera this year. Just asking. 🙂

For me, it's not Canon per se, but all of the manufacturers because it seems not one of them can manage to produce a hybrid without at least one serious flaw. Re. Canon in general, I suppose it's because more people have had or have Canon than any other brand and if you want a pure stills camera, they have always made some of the best and if you want a cine camera, ditto. They just refuse (it seems) to want to fuse the two which is one of the biggest demands in this day & age. Personally, I am brand agnostic and though I do favour Fuji, I probably would have bought a pair of R6's had they not been crippled (for my needs) and seriously considering the new Sony for 2021. I'd have jumped into bed with the Panasonic S1 this year if the AF had been up to snuff and the Z6 last year if it had had 4k 60p internal. If they can fix some of the issues with a flick of a switch, then in an ideal world, folks will vote with their wallets, ie, not purchase on principal. But back in the real world, if a 'thing' can be made to work, a lot of the folks who were adamant they would not purchase, will find a reason to do so. And there are the serial camera collectors who will buy it just because it says 8k on the tin. They will never use the 8k and never actually use the camera for anything other than some snaps of; their kids, their cat, their garden and maybe a brick wall. A very long lens will be attached and it will hang around their necks as a badge of honour. If they are at a wedding and you are there to officially capture it, they will wish to let you know early on in regard to the camera jewellery they are transporting around. And if it's got the potential for 8k, they will feel especially smug. Those people will buy the camera in droves. But I digress... All the talk of how to fix the thing outside of Canon recalling and doing it themselves is madness. If they don't wish to do that, then fair enough and they will lose a lot of the pro market, maybe just for a time, maybe for ever and that may or may not hurt them, - it depends how much of their market is pro. I have no idea what it is but suspect it's not enough to break them. In principle, I'd like to see it working though just because any product brought to market should work and for the overall good of our industry, but maybe there is a positive from all this... Maybe...and I hope it's the case, those companies working on new products such as Nikon, Fuji and maybe Panasonic, who will all be aware of what has been unfolding with Canon over the last few weeks, will ensure that their own products are not open to such criticism and actually end up being better than they otherwise might have been (without the Canon debacle)?

That's complete bullshit. As others have stated, a 4K workflow, even for 1080 delivery, is standard now. I've got about 20 Terabytes of storage sitting on my desk top right now, in mixed SSDs and spinning disks. Cost a couple hundred bucks. 3 Terabytes worth of SSDs in my editing machine, cost a couple hundred more. The 1 Terabyte drives I use for my two Ninja 5 recorders cost a bit over a hundred a piece. Really big budget. Why are we feeding the troll? I know, I feel like doing it too. But it's pointless. He either doesn't actually know much about video production, or he's a Canon shill, or, most likely, he's just here to troll. Lame. He doesn't believe in the cripple hammer, which is unfortunately very real in this case, hit him with the ban hammer.

Been shooting 4K professionally since 2014. No I don't have a big budget, but it is viable for me. One moment you're touting the 8K on the R5 and the next, you're saying shoot 1080p. Its a real roller coaster with you.

Adrian here is the ultimate proof that people are blinkered idiots, that live under rocks. They miss long term trends and they even miss how millions of people use cameras differently to how they do. As for professional camera for video... I refer you to the famous Canon EOS R5 marketing and PR statements! https://www.eoshd.com/news/opinion-on-dpreviews-canon-eos-r5-overheating-test-in-4k/ Even Richard Butler at DPReview didn't absorb or register the Canon statements about professional video and cinematography use. It's unbelievable it really is. Why is the world so utterly full of chinless wonders who wander around the planet with their eyes half shut??

These people you mean ? They can get to fuck over this to be honest after dismissing this issue out of hand and instigating that Twitter pile on when @Andrew Reid raised it. After that, any "article" they write about this should always open with "As pointed out by EOSHD but completely ridiculed by us because it was ruining our launch bliss and for which we now unreservedly apologise..." Maybe you just need to throw those ice cubes away and be more positive and it will go away @Andrew Reid

Philip Bloom is - by his standards: unusually - outspoken on the R5: "This is the first camera I have used in memory that punishes you for using it. [...] I spent £4200 on a camera I cannot use most of the time and that’s ludicrous! I truly hope they find a way to fix this debacle."

Message to Sony and Cannot: Please add a real time temp gauge to your R5 and S-III. A small, simple 5 dot heat meter line. (Looks like an audio level meter) have 2 green, 1 yellow 1 orange and 1 red colored dot. This gives people more warning that their camera is getting hot. The more you know BEFORE a shutdown the better. I'd rather know it comming in 10min than find out 30 seconds before! How hard would that EXTREMELY valuable information be to add to the display?

I sold my GH5S on eBay with the PanaLeica 12-60, a battery grip and 5 OEM batteries for $1800. I had a dozen picks of the camera, the sensor, the lens from and rear elements and the camera LCD. I was running an auction with the Or Best Offer option, and someone reached out to me with a buy it now for $1800, so I took it, as I was trying to fund an S1H purchase. After a week of receiving my camera, he complained that the unit was not as described, and wanted to send it back even though I said there were no returns! I said what was wrong with the camera, and he said there was a scratch on the bottom of the camera near the tripod mount! Ebay forced me to accept the return, and this fuck effectively got a free two week rental out of my camera! Ebay can eat ass juice for all I care.

Sorry to have derailed a camera thread so badly. Back on topic.... When the GH6 does finally come out, people will inevitably be looking for quirky vintage lenses to adapt to it. If you find yourself in Berlin, I've found the Sunday flea market at Mauerpark to be a bit of a treasure trove. While you are there, go to the food part where there is a truck selling what are hands down the best thrice cooked chips you'll find anywhere.

You could literally post a frame from R5 or Arri Alexa, say it's a Sony A7siii frame and someone would say the color isnt that good and that something is wrong with the skin tones.

I think Jerry is calling us all beginners.....

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