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We're talking two unreleased cameras, but the internal NDs, mini XLRs, higher framerate 4K, and superior autofocus would make the Canon a clear winner over the S5 for docs. Unless you literally have to have two cameras for $4000, in which case there's no point comparing them.

My bank account is empty after EOS R5.

The problem is it is not just about money, or financial reward in other ways. The way Youtube is set up, video makers are bumped up the rankings by the number of views their videos get, and by how long viewers are engaged. One major way to achieve that is to be the first to review a new product. All the camera companies have to do to discourage any negativity is to not offer a Youtube reviewer a new product, or be slow in offering it. No money has changed hands. In the music gear game, backhanders has long been a problem. Magazines rely on gear advertising for their income, so would be hesitant to give an item a bad review in case the manufacturer pulled their advertising. What happened was that magazines would only review gear they could be positive about. Maybe the same will eventually happen on Youtube. If a new bit of gear doesn't get reviewed much, read into that most reviewers thought it was garbage.

I’m only interested if it’s going to be sponsored by Sony and Squarespace.

quite insane DR vs C200 and other camera when shooting underexposed shot (like interior with window and expose for the window) The RAW on C200 cannot help at all.

I've recently "discovered" some of the benefits of using the in-camera digital zoom. These won't apply to everyone, but it's worth considering and I don't hear a anyone talking about it. Let me illustrate by taking my GH5 as an example, but the principle applies much wider, especially as cameras go towards 8K and beyond. The GH5 has a sensor that's 5184 pixels wide. When you're shooting 4K, the camera downsamples the 5.2K to 4K, giving a higher quality image due to the benefits of oversampling. The benefits of oversampling are well known, and many cameras have this. The GH5 also has an ETC mode, which essentially does a 1:1 crop into the middle of the sensor. This is a common feature across manufacturers. If you use the ETC function in 4K, you get an additional 1.3x crop, and if you use the function in 1080p then you get a 2.7x crop. Both of these modes are shooting a 1:1, so you get a tighter FOV, but the image is no longer oversampled, so the quality goes down. Enter the digital zoom. In 1080p mode, the GH5 allows a 2x and 4x digital zoom. The 2x digital zoom is less than the 2.7x 1:1 zoom from the ETC mode, so (assuming that the cameras image pipeline is designed well) the resulting 1080p image should be an image that is taken from the middle 2.6K pixels and downsampled to 1080p. In other words, the 2x digital zoom is a way to punch-into the sensor but still keep the quality of an oversampled image. This principle will occur any time that the digital crop is less than the crop of going to a 1:1 area on the sensor for whatever resolution you're shooting in. The Sony ClearImage Zoom comes to mind here, where (I think?) you can zoom in by a lesser amount than the 4K 1:1 crop (which is something like 1.5x?). Perhaps other manufacturers have similar functionality too. Of course, the lower the resolution you're shooting then the more likely this will be available on your camera. For those still shooting 1080p then this is worth looking at. For those shooting 4K, this will increasingly be useful as sensors creep up towards 8K and beyond. For me though, I've now abandoned the idea of having to buy an 85mm prime, because I can simply do a 2x digital zoom with my 42.5mm lens and get the same FOV and (basically) the same image quality, and if I happen to have my 7.5mm lens on and want to quickly grab a 15mm FOV shot then I know I won't be sacrificing quality to get one. Had I known that this feature delivered such good results I may have actually bought different lenses, so it's not a trivial thing, and it's worth giving a quick go if your camera supports it.

No SDI. What a shame. Some directors like to see an image on their monitors, right! For image quality only I wouldnt buy it. For that price it needs to have SDI. I second that, 2x S5 plus one Mamiya 645 speedbooster and two middle format lenses- Hallo IMAX! :), plus a dummy FD adapter and two Canon FD lenses instead. How about a YAWG thing with battery for the S5, Panasonic?

F4 Dof is plenty for that lens and docu work. The light gathering is the important part as it means you can leave the lens on day into night and have that amazing range for run and gun.

Canon can go and fuck themselves.

My bad, I haven't been on this forum in a while... Been digested in the Magic Lantern Forum, and soon going to buy the P Lumix S5 😉 For the EOS M ML RAW Modes, Jip-hop a while back posted the calculations of how the modes compare relative to the width of a full frame sensor (The Crop Factor). 1080 RAW Mode [1736x976] = 1.6x Crop Aps-c 1080 RAW Mode + x3 Crop Mode Enabled 1800px wide = 4.61x Crop (1.6x * 2.88x) 2.5K RAW Mode @2.35:1 = 3.29x Crop (1.6 * 2.06) 2.8K RAW Mode @2.35:1 = 2.96x Crop (1.6 * 1.85) - (Closest mode to Super16 or the BMPCC FOV) EOS M sensor size: 22.3 x 14.9 mm EOS M sensor width: 5184px

Also I feel the majority of people are effectively 'married' to whichever brand they choose. They simply dont have the money, time or inclination to switch to another brand. I am a Sony user with a bunch of Sony compatible lenses, flashes and other equipment so really I only get to choose between Sony cameras. No big deal of course although it has been a little frustrating to see Sony fall behind in the video specs - particularly the move to 10 bit. Still they seemed to have made really good choices (for me) with the A7siii and I cant wait to get my hands on the camera....

congrats, same here. I feel like I've "done the time" with past Sony 8bit color and long gop codecs. REALLY looking forward to some colors I can push around a little and finally an Intra based codec (even if the "S" variation, I'll take it) as well as seeing 16bit RAW from a Sony. I really won't need 16bit RAW for the gigs that pay the bills, but for my passion projects (solo wilderness adventures and a couple of Doc's I've written the scripts for), could most definitely take advantage of it. We'll see though. It is a very great time for photographers and filmmakers, as far as tools available. Maybe now, people will focus more on "time behind the lens" and improving their skills versus GAS. I for one really appreciated Sony's A9 and AF/Exposure speed when shooting sports. In that example, I went from spending a good portion of my brain on exposure settings and nailing focus. Versus with the A9 and 100-400GM, being able to concentrate most of my attention to tracking and composition. So these tools can be a good thing, but many times people are putting too much emphasis on the gear over art and creativity. But even my wife will tell you that I get GAS from time to time, lol

There are really no bad options among all the 10-bit FF hybrids, they all have warts, but they all are capable of producing an amazing image. Sometimes we get hung up on bickering over aspects that are dealbreakers for me but not an issue for you. I don’t have the time while I work or the eyesight for manual focus, so for me I need good AF and a few key primes. And I have no interest in a c300 size camera. Obviously others don’t have the same problem. But right now only Sony, Canon and Nikon cover the bases and despite a brief flirtation with the RF mount I’m sticking with Sony. My a7s3 is on the way, it’ll be my first camera that shoots decent 120fps and 10-bit after years of Sony’s 8-bit codec. Good times. cheers chris

Got my email from B&H this morning and saw FedEx pick it up before lunch, I will have my A7S Mark III Friday 🙂 (of course, Friday is already taken with kids stuff, as is a good bit of this weekend, but I should be able to do something Friday and Sat just by cutting out sleep, ha; that camera can shoot in the dark anyway right, lol)... Also, have version 10.54 firmware locked and loaded on my Ninja V. ready to go. I'm most interested to see the 16bit RAW linear to 12bit ProRes RAW results compared to the best internal codec. I'm REALLY hoping that magenta cast is gone in the RAW. I am terrible at removing magenta without affecting skin tones, so I usually can't touch it much. Also curious to see if the SSD's I've got will handle the sustained write speed. From my calculations it will, but we shall see. Can't wait to see how that reduced rolling shutter looks on my motion controllers (I have Edelkrone's JibONE, SliderONE, Dual HeadONE, and SliderPLUS v5 Long).

https://www.canonrumors.com/here-is-the-canon-cinema-eos-c70/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+canonrumors%2Frss+(Canon+Rumors) No wonder they didn't want the EOS R5 to go the extra mile. They had this to flog us. Who's got a spare $6K?

Yup and I have to say I'm pretty gutted. These are pretty shit times as it is, but it's an even shittier day when your shiny new thing proves not to be quite what you expected... Hey ho, worse things happen at sea as my grandfather is fond of saying!

Codecs are efficient, practical, professional, broadcast-ready codec that you don't need to clean up in post. Following the c300iii, the shadows will be noise-free under ISO 25600, SOOC. True, you don't have all the flexibility of raw if you want to do heavy color grading, but you also have great color because of the the parallel readout of RGGB rather than debayer process. Also, due to the efficient codec, you save a lot of cash on media and storage. If you're a one-man shooter who shoots fast, all this helps.

I'm going to sleep on it but I think it's my only real course of action. My only real issue with Fuji was the lack of IBIS in the XT3. But they fixed that with the XT4. Still not keen on these fully articulating screens over tilts, but I can live with that more than I can pulsating backgrounds! We'll see tomorrow but as you say, it's kind of sad. It's the ONLY thing stopping me from loving this camera, but it's driving me nuts.

Andrew most be loving this, everyone has forgiven Canon and forgot the r5 🙂 RIP consequences.

For those who talk about this camera for doc work, it wouldn't be better to buy 2x Panasonic S5?? Unless of course if you are full of Canon lenses.

The codecs are pretty annoying...strong for Canon but below avg for the competition. Editing those types of files nearly always need to be transcoded first. I do think it would do great for corporate work and it would be nice to use a single camera for both gimbal work as well as interview type work. Right now I use my C200 for interviews and tripod work and the GH5 for gimbal work and b-roll. For lower budget clients I could use this camera for both. If I need RAW I can use the C200 or rent another body. The URSA 12K looks great but it is over twice as much and the gimbal for it will cost more than this whole camera, not really considered a run and gun camera due to the extra rigging required, it will need proper lighting and rigging to get the most out of it, and the storage needs are astronomical. It definitely has its place but the URSA and C70 simply aren't meant for the same target audience. I like to stick with bodies that can shoot 90% of my work and for that last 10% I can always rent the gear needed for the project. One thing I can't tell is if APS-C lenses will work with the C70. I know they have the speedbooster, but no one has said if the speed booster will only work with FF or will it work with APS-C lenses as well. My favorite C200 lens is the 18-35 Sigma APS-C lens.

A big *want* from me. Will start saving fairly soon. Sadly will be a long process as I also need to move house soon. But this seems so close to perfect for my needs. I'd prefer it to look a bit more 'cinema camera' just for client perception, but that is literally the only major flaw (from my own POV). The price is lower than I was expecting. Unless the FX6 is in some way extraordinary, or another camera emerges prior to me being able to gather the finance (EVA-2?) I'm feeling inspired to purchase at this point. Obviously, I need to see more footage, and wait to see how some of the tech holds up. I hope the new thin NDs are robust enough for example. External RAW would be nice. They might just be holding off on that so as not to upset C300 III sales and recent purchasers. But honestly, on first look - I'm thoroughly impressed.

GG bros. I'm not replacing my R5, but I am def picking this up as a personal A camera (goodbye c300ii). This comes in half the price of comparable cinema cams with more features. Full frame (w/ adapter), DPAF, auto ISO, dual gain sensor, tiny size and associated grip package, cheaper media and associated storage/editing costs It also knocks off all the hybrid cams: Internal NDs, full featured audio (xls for real shotgun mics, physical controls buttons), all the monitoring tools, no overheating, handle + mic adapter for no bullshit cage.... The only thing missing is IBIS, which is quite frankly overstated compared to regular optical stabilization. I'm just curious about the dynamic range v. the c300iii...I thought the dynamic range reached 16 stops only in raw.

For anyone wanting a bit more tactile control of the clear image zoom on Sony cameras, this Fotga RM-VS1 will give you a zoom rocker to operate it with as well as a shutter release, record button and power on/off. If you are using a lens with servo zoom such as the PZ18-105mm f4 etc then it controls both the optical zoom and the clear image zoom as one (kind of continuous) lens. I say kind of because there is a slight pause when zooming in when it gets to the crossover point at the end of the optical range. If you've got an RX100 then it also controls the optical and clear zoom extension in the same way. There is no variable speed so don't expect to be doing variable speed zooms but its good for framing if nothing else. Expect to pay around €16-18 on Ali or €20-25 on Amazon.

It will turn into a 2.8 light gathering but stay a f4 for DoF and more or less keep the same FOV. The 24-70 F2.8 will become a f2 light gather but stay f2.8 DoF. Assuming the crop is 1.5 (it could be 1.6). 24*1.5*0.71 = 25.5 F4*1.5*0.71 = 4.26

This, but I shoot much higher frame rates and don't bother with an ND, mostly because I'm shooting hybrid and the ND has a benefit for the video side, but at the same time, a negative on the stills side. 1/1000th + quite often and never noticed anything that bothers me with the resulting footage.

You might find the GH5/GH5s/G9 'Lumix AF Guidebook' useful, download it from - https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/lumix/technologies/af.html

oh my...the dark days are coming. at least we do not have a pandemic upon our heads..wait, what?! 🙂

That joystick looks like it's going to get knocked off within the first week 🙂

Hmmm, I think 9/10 is stretching it a bit!! From my testing yesterday shooting about 10 clips, it was a bit hit & miss. I was shooting at default settings and am now going to try his -3 +2 and some of the alternative AF options. I shoot 4k 50p so have to shoot crop mode and that is supposed to be better with this AF system and one thing is for sure (from my very brief testing), the tighter the lens crop, the more sticky that AF is. I only have the 20-60 lens at this point and it's least sticky at 20mm and so far pretty good at 60mm in some of my tests. I'd go with 10/10 when it's working and 0/10 when it's not.

Nope they should pretty much be fine. I use a 16mm F1.4 C Mount lens and have used a Super 16mm Schneider ARRI-S Mount 16mm T1.9, worked fine with the 2.5K Mode. The 2.8k should be good too. 🙂

Look like I need to save up for 24-70mm 2.8 II

Definitely my next camera. The C300 III is very good. This is a baby version of it with integrated grip! I love it! Perfect 4K mini cinema camera with an speedbooster adapter for EF glass. Ticks all the boxes for me. Need to save the pennies.

He said "For a very large majority, 12MP is more than enough for photos. " not "everyones"... I don't think that is inaccurate, as you are not the large majority. Many will never even print a photo and the few who do, don't print larger than A2, A3.. I actually own a large scale printer and color lab, and am very familiar with dpi and viewing distance, and many of the photo's I print, have an excess of pixels that have to be interpolated down to the dpi being printed, which is usually 240dpi (sweet spot IMHO) to 300 dpi. The pro's I print for, usually don't crop much if at all, as the MP size of the image they send me is equal to that of the camera they shoot on. I will go out on a week or two solo wilderness backpacking trip, and shoot astro, wildlife, and landscapes; specifically for my calendar or large scale prints. And yes, in those cases 12MP is not enough. Thought to prove a point, I will produce a video showing me using the A7SIII for those 3 types of photography. For landscape, I am pretty sure my 5 shot pano technique in portrait will yield an image that will be printable larger than I can print in my shop. I'm hopeful the Milky Way Shots will actually be improved thanks to the low light capabilities of that camera. But, for wildlife, even with my 100-400GM, I'm pretty sure I will miss the A7RIV at that point, as I do heavily crop, usually for more reach. Versus landscape is about composition, with good composition and multiple shots together I'm sure it will be print worthy. And versus astro, getting little noise in low light conditions (and nailing focus of course) are key, so again with a good composition there, I expect a print worthy image as well. And I also do multi shot pano's for astro. We'll see though. But then again, I am mostly going to be using the A7SIII in place of the FX9 I couldn't afford this year, lol. But I can 100% guarantee, it will also take some really high image quality photo's, and that a large percentage of people would be just fine with 12MP, if they were real with themselves, lol 😉

Yes, it is a very good thing in the Fuji lenses. That's why I was asking about third party lenses, if they don't get corrections that puts them at a disadvantage. And I wonder where a particular lens's correction information is stored, in the lens firmware or the camera firmware? Just curious.

Rolling shutter of the A7Siii is impressively low. Image on the S5 is free of artefacts and digital oddities. I would say it is the better image. As far as lens choices go, some people do shoot with manual lenses. A7Siii would have been tempting if with the image quality of a S5, which by the way has a rolling shutter of 10ms in S35 mode. The long gop codec, if the same as in the S1, is much slimmer than it is on the A7Siii and is performing impressively well. AF is much better on the A7Siii, of course. A7siii with 4k up to 120p full frame plus astonishing AF is indeed something people will take advantage of and will enjoy. I think it's super cool, that we have this crazy camera tech and that we are relaxed about it and wish eachother enjoyment with their cams. Very well said @Trek of Joy!

Hey Dave, so that today and was curious if you could redo the test recording RAW to the Ninja V. Was really curious if the magenta still shows up in 16bit RAW or if that is artifacts from the internal codecs (they are "S" level after all). But nevermind now, just got my email from B&H this morning that mine shipped this morning and will be in hand Friday, so I will check myself, already have version 10.54 firmware loaded on my Ninja V ready to go..

Remember that the Panasonic's DFD only works with Panasonic lenses. With Olympus lenses, it falls back to usual contrast detection. (It is the kind of thing that undermined the m43 system "alliance", and I suspect that they will do the sma with L-mount...)

It would be great. But probably will be flooded by lawsuits from the reviewers cited (with eventual financial backing from the companies).

I've never used a GH5 so I can't compare them as a user of both (I own a G9). The G9 is supposed to have better C-AF, has better IBIS/EIS, and it's cheaper. It does not support the XLR audio adaptor, does not have any 'All-I' codec modes (there is nothing above 150 Mbps), maximum record time is 30 minutes (10 minutes for 4k50p/4k60p) and doesn't have waveform monitors/vectorscopes/shutter angle control (and some other 'professional' video-specific features that are on the GH5). It gained a range of long-GOP 10 bit, HEVC and high-bitrate 1080p codec modes in the recent firmware updates. If you need to check for a specific feature etc., it's probably best to download the User Guide and have a read. Effectively, it has a more stills/less video orientated feature set, but with the same basic video capture quality as the GH5 i.e. excellent 1080p and no-crop 4k up to 60p.

Panasonic...please. Arguably some of the best video orientated features in the business: menu, on screen info, custom mode buttons, IBIS, full v-log, with updated colors, robust anamorphic support and modes, decent wireless phone app, one of the best images in the game, balanced and non-compromised codec options, great handling and ergonomics with lots of custom buttons and very practical dedicated ones (WB, EC, ISO), robustly built, practical camera bodies. It’s all let down by the AF. All the hard work in all those other areas...completely destroyed by the AF. Unsold cameras because of the AF. The reason I’m hesitant to give you anymore money, and I’m sure I’m not along, is the pulsing AF. The tracking is much improved, great! Awesome step forward. DfD can work in some situations in a pinch and a few reshoots. But, I’m not going to drop $4000, $5000, $6000 on a system with shitty AF in 2020 and beyond. Not with so many other good choices. It just doesn’t make sense anymore. AF is now very, very useful and reliable (On Sony and Canon anyway) for 90% of what people want and MF is only a tiny switch flick away for that other 10%. The market has shifted. Your competitors now have 10-bit log with good color. AF in all modes including 4K120p slow motion and above. It’s time. I’m a huge Panasonic and MFT fanboy but you gotta do something different or your cameras will go unsold and your L-mount will fail. And that will, with all honesty and sincerity, be a sad day.

The only reason I downvoted you is because I intensely dislike your post-truth, conspiratorial worldview: I think it stands in the way of productive discussion. You calling me (a yearlong, very inactive member who has basically only posted about Blackmagic and RED during his time here) a Canon shill, instead of applying even a modicum of Occam's Razor and just assuming I'm someone in disagreement with your tone and ideas, really goes to prove my point. Anyhow.

Why no ibis?