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It is interesting that the top three spots on Andrew's list of the most popular cameras on EOSHD are all M43 cameras. Yet every day we have new posts bemoaning the impending death of the format. And here we are posting on a GH6 "rumors" thread that is 27 pages long and has been active for over a year. It really feels like the death of M43 if it comes, will be due to a self fulfilling prophecy in the minds of its users and not based in any rational assessment of its adoption or the interest of its userbase. If Panasonic does decide to abandon a market that they lead and tries to cram the L-mount down our throat it will be one of the silliest decisions a corporation could make. But I wont try to predict the future as it wouldn't be the first time corporate heads made a bad call. For the last year or so now Panasonic has been pushing adoption of their new full frame camera line and they probably want to give it as much room to breath and grow as possible. I think with the new release of the S5, they'll also want to give it some time for new adopters to buy in before they release any news about a GH5 replacement. At least that is what makes the most sense to me, but I do agree the lack of guidance from them and full support of the format a bit worrisome. For example, the EVA1 really should have been M43 with maybe a bundled EF adapter or an interchangeable mount-- that alone may have given their user base more confidence in its future. It is also too bad that the L-mount and M43 have such similar flange distances that an adapter between the two is probably not in the cards. That said M43 is still my favorite ecosystem and format and none of the full frame cameras have really pulled me away due to some combination of rolling shutter, cropped video, heat issues, or just the size of the bodies and lenses. The A7S III looks the most promising to me, but I'm still not entirely sold on the need to move to full frame due to weight/size of the lenses and the shallow depth of field that I mostly consider a negative for video. Anyway, It would be sad to see Panasonic walk away from a mount that arguably has one of the most diverse ecosystems of lenses and adapters on the market. Hopefully, we'll get some good news soon from Panasonic after they have given the S5 some time to sell through.

Doctor, doctor. Help me, I'm crazy. Doctor: What is it Andrew? Divorce? Famine? Starvation? War? Ah it's just Canon. Doctor: Ah. Ok. They keep cripple hammering things. Doctor: Next patient!

Got the A7SIII as wanted a small body that could do 4k120 10bit with high calibre AF tracking for gimbal work, and more. Coming from the EVA1 and GH5. No footage yet to show. Haven’t used it on a job yet but I’ve took it for a casual spin in the park. Is the hype real? Not sure yet. Need more time. Some observations: 1. The body is very very light. The buttons are nice to press. The screen is a little thin. The menu button is in the wrong place. The grip is far better than before. It’s much bigger. 2. The EVF is insane. Never seen an EVF that clear and sharp, ever. 3. Menu’s make sense, finally. Woo woo. 4. AF tracking is great. Feels like cheating. I’m not sure how I feel about it as part of the craft though. Feels less rewarding, if that makes sense? Lovely on a gimbal though. 5. Working on a screen this small makes me feel disjointed from the scene. Much less clarity than the EVF. Good I’ve got the Ninja V to test then! 6. Dynamic range is impressive. Very nice roll off. 7. There’s a “Shockless” WB. When you change it, it transitions smoothly while recording. Same with ISO and shutter speed. Nice! 8. How am I using ISO 100 in Slog3? Thought this was BANNED. 8. Rolling shutter looks gone. Ran off. Away. Thank the Lord. 9. Battery life - hmmm. Not Panasonic standards. 10. Tamron 70-180 seemed a bit drunk with close distance AF. 11. Image looks quite clinical. Used ProMist 1/4 - not judged it yet. Seems better. Will decide later. 12. Why is the skin tone in FCPX yellow looking when the skin is on the line in the vector scope? Not that the skin tones are bad (they are good off the line), just doesn’t make sense. Maybe I’m blind. 13. Colour is better. I’m not sure how much better yet. Definitely an improvement. I need to get this thing on a proper shoot. Got a triple music video shoot in Turkey coming up so I’m going to throw it in the deep end on that one. Overall, I’m impressed so far but I can’t help feel a slight bit of disappointment when Canon announced the C70, which is the camera I described some years back as the one I would love to have. Now it exists. Funny world.

Wait for the Sony FX6 as well. Exactly! Heck, even the internal 10bit for some cameras is better than the same camera's raw output. (am looking at you Sony FS7!) The Canon C70 as an A Cam is aimed at low (perhaps mid) budget professional work (ultra low budget work uses mirrorless/DSLRs for their A Cam). They don't need or want raw in 95% of the shoots. Doesn't matter when Anamorphic AF lenses don't exist! They differentiate by being the best (or at least, thought of as that) when it comes to image quality. And by being incredibly good when it comes to overall workflow/ecosystem for the productions they're aimed at. It is strange, until I remember a key lesson from economics: "People have unlimited wants". And that people will blur the line between "wants" and "needs". (this is one of the key reasons why socialism will always fail. Because even if you can give everything that people want/need right now, that won't be enough! As people will have expectations inflation, and will have a new higher level of demands. Thus you always need a way to allocate scarce resource efficiently, which is exactly what price signals to. You abolish price signals, and you abolish the ability to effectively allocate resources to get the most out of them)

I really only have one question and that is why did they name it after a Volvo? A used Volvo C70 is also cheaper and less good at video, but the Canon C70 is easier to park.

can i get you boys dueling pistols for xmas ? then we can settle it once and for all 🙄

$5500 for a Canon cine camera isn't high. Yes, you're paying the Canon tax, and yes there are cameras out there with better specs and for less, but there is a large group of folks that won't leave Canon and this is an incredibly enticing camera to get people to enter their cine lineup that haven't already.

You're over generalising consumers. Many here on this forum were looking at the R5, Professionals included and those same people will look at the C70. I am one of them. I would argue that 8K is a feature more for a hybrid as Photographers will use it for short bursts to get stills. Features like the upcoming RAWlite upgrade is however less an R5 feature and more what I would expect on the C70 and it makes no sense for a hybrid to have it and a dedicated video camera not to. I don't care if its a low budget, mid budget or high budget, its laughable to even defend a company that offers Video RAW on a hybrid that is crippled by overheating, but passes on it on a dedicated cinema camera. This lottery of specs that Canon seems to dip in and out of for their cameras is perhaps the most frustrating aspect of their company. C200 gets RAW but not a 10 bit codec. Buy a C300 if you want both or the R5, except that overheats, so people say, if you want long recordings, you should buy a video camera, except when you do, you're not getting the same features the R5 has.

I think if the S1H were not so pricy it would actually be higher up on the list...but if it weren't so pricy it probably would not have the features that would stimulate such large numbers of discussion....catch 22. Hmmmm. Love the S1H! One noticeably absent from your list is the Nikon Z6. It is killer good...and easy to use, excellent features, and as good for color as any on the list. What holds it back? Crazy things: 1. coming late to the party with mirrorless, 2.. not being able to have both Zebras and peaking activated at the same time---who ever heard of that?!?!? It made me crazy. What camera company are FOOLS enough to make you choose between having good exposure or good focus?!? If this camera, with its image and color, had as good a use features as the Fuji X-T4 (or X-H1), i'd have it still. Why so these companies give us so much that is good---even great, and then deprive us of the things that facilitate our ability to get the best of those great things and cripple ease of use...like not being able to have peaking and zebras simultaneously operative, not being able to punch in while recording to check critical focus...you know the thing.... I really love the Nikon colors and look, and the rock solid dependability...and the stabilization was noticeably better than the A7III (and colors, BY FAR)---but those small but ESSENTIAL things, the lack of which cripple real-world usage eventually made me sell it. 😞

ALL Loaded up, ready to do a day hike and see if I can't get some footage. I am going to try to get some 4K/120p using a Motorized Jib with pan/tilt, as well as some Dolly in and Dolly out shots, and Sliders. There's a small water fall I have access to, I was going to use as the subject. I'm also going to take the same shots but in 24P along with RAW output at the same time. This way we can look at the difference between ProRes RAW 12bit and Internal All-I 10bit. I can't believe it all fit in that Edelkrone backpack, here's everything that is loaded: Sony A7SIII with 24GM f/1.4 Induro GIT304L carbon fiber w/ 75mm modular system to swap out heads/motion controllers fast Edelkrone JibONE (for motorized jib shots) Edelkrone Dual HeadONE setup (for motorized pan and tilt) Edelkrone SliderPLUS v5 Long Edelkrone Slide Module v3 Edelkrone FlexTilt 2 Edelkrone Backpack Cat hair on backpack provided by my youngest daughters Himalayan Simese, lol HEAVY as heck, but the backpack has decent waste and shoulder straps, and the weight is stable. If all works out well, I will try to upload the footage to my vimeo site tonight and will share here.

Wooooooooooooooooooo! Samsung NX1, baby!!!

you may bring one attendant each. You can toss a coin over who gets full frame and who gets the equivalent in not full frame. Period attire is mandatory. Should make for an interesting short.

This is all anecdotal but in my experience the Pocket 4K is EVERYWHERE in the low budget circuit, with its entry price of 1400 dollars and great image.

NX1 still on the list 😉

I was using a 6 year old analogy to explain the current attitude to shooting RAW today... sorry if that was confusing... 🙄 And low/mid budget are often using external recorders... to circumvent the internal codec. Actually I came across a small video shoot in my home town of Reading. They were using Pocket 6Ks.... and shooting RAW, so not all low/mid budget shooters are avoiding it.

Don't forget raw, 6K, EVF, weather sealing, and the ability to toggle between Full-frame and APS-C at the push of a button rather than needing to swap out an adapter...overall I think the S1H speaks to different needs so it can still effectively compete with both the c70 and a7s III. In fact the only other camera that can offer all of the above features is Panasonic's own S5 (not going to count the R5 because it's such a mess...) The one extra thing I think Panasonic should have done to make the S1H a true "video-first" hybrid would be to replace the mechanical shutter with an ND filter. Hopefully enough people are asking for that and they'll deliver for the S1H mark II. Unlike Canon and Sony, Panasonic seems to listen to user feedback! Also there was a wild rumor some time ago that Panasonic was developing an "S1V" which would basically be a Sony A7S III-alike with a 12mp sensor and 4K 120fps. What is interesting though is that this rumor preceded any leaks of the a7S III specs, so now I really wonder if it may have had some substance... But on the other hand, Panasonic might be happy enough with their resolution advantage for now.

6 years ago many would say they neither needed or wanted 4K, or 10 bit... if we keep to that attitude of what is, nothing would change or improve in the Industry at all. Why do Photographers make such good use of RAW and Videographers are stuck shooting H264. If Videographers need and want H264 and H265, why do they transcode or use proxys.....? A Professional Cinema camera should look to have at least one codec that wasn't a deliverable codec. H264 and H265 are what you use to deliver video files to YouTube. Its not ideal for editing, whatever spin is given on it.

I understand why the lack of raw is a downer for enthusiasts who really want to tinker, but I have to admit the C70 is pretty compelling work tool. You could load a backpack with the camera, 2 BPA-60s, some SD Cards and a couple of lenses and you could go shoot a job and make it look easy. You've got inexpensive media, decently compressed codecs and a battery that lasts 400 minutes. For a lot of projects, that's worth more than the gains from shooting raw. The best way forward (for me at least) is to delineate the two needs by owning a cinema camera and a video camera. Then you're not driving yourself crazy by trying to make one do the other's job.

VERY TEMPORARY 4 channel RIG, fully wired up, with Timecode from the Atomos Sync. Since I have a shoot next weekend, I needed to throw something together that was functional UNTIL Kondor Blue has those beautiful Ultimate Rigs ready to ship in a week or two. This is fully wired up, so you are seeing 4 audio feeds coming in (1 from a boom to #1 XLR, 1 from on camera #2 XLR, and #3 and #4 are 2 sets of Rode Wireless Go. That beautiful blue braided cable is Kondor Blue's 14" full hdmi to full hdmi braided cable. I'm running a USB-C to USB-C cable from the FxLion NANO TWO V Mount battery to the A7SIII for PD charging (it is keeping it at 100% as I use it). Also, running a locking cable from the Ninja V dummy battery to the FxLion NANO TWO. Obviously the Sony XLR-K3M is powered by the A7SIII through the MI shoe. The matte box is just a Tilta one I had laying around with a cinema soft filter (4" x 5.56") mounted on the provided 82mm ring to the Sony 16-35GM. And in the first picture is a "poor mans" EVF, very similar to how the FX9 is doing it. This is just a 5" Loupe from Kinotehnik that magnetically attaches to the Ninja V. I'm VERY pleased with the fit to my eye and function of this, however, I am having difficulties with the metal strip staying attached. Magnetics is fine, but the adhesive sucks. I'm going to try and fabric a hinging mechanism that attaches to the top of the Ninja and then just screws into the plastic shell of the Loupe. Without a proper cage I do not have anything where I want it exactly yet. Like the Ninja V will be more to the side, the Wireless Go will be elsewhere, etc.. But this will do for next weekends shoot.

I don’t understand some of the negativity I’m seeing with the C70. It looks like a fantastic concept and will serve many people very very well. People who want RAW from this aren’t understanding it’s purpose. At least in the UK - documentary, corporate, music videos, brand promos.... 99% shot with 8bit or 10bit codecs.

So here's a simple story: I was in the market to hire a guy about 4 years ago for a video shoot. A shooter contacted me to inquire about the gig, but had almost no experience with motion pictures. He was just getting into video from photography and he asked me if his lowly Pentax, which only did 60p @720 would be okay. His photos showed that he had a great eye for composition and when we talked about the assignment he explained that he was a video neophyte, but was willing and eager to learn. Seemed like a bit of a risk to hire this dude. After all here was a guy shooting on a decidedly not video-centric DSLR and admitting that video wasn't his main thing. After some coaching, both of us reviewing past examples of the job I was hiring him for, and collaborating about what I wanted to see in the footage, we decided to partner up, and off he went. Meanwhile, I simultaneously hired another guy for the same sort of shoot on the opposite side of the country. Dude made sure to tell me more than once what his list of gear included (would you also like to know about his C300 and PL mount lenses? Apparently he was convinced I did) --and how he was a video professional with years of experience. Sure, he knew what I wanted, not a problem; don't even need to discuss it. After watching past examples of the job and assuring me he could do it, off he went. With that narrative set-up you can probably imagine who delivered spot on incredible b-roll shots that were a bit IQ mushy, but captured great scenarios and emotion --and who gave me a pile of shit footage with no cohesiveness or creativity, (plus couldn't even get the horizon level) but sure looked super sharp with great colors. I don't know if any of this is germane to the thread, but... Here's hoping that niche players like aspiring videographer Phil from North Carolina hang in there...and their camera gear supplier does too.

Towd - I think that's a perfect summary of how a lot of us feel about m43 versus the alternatives. A much more interesting post than people constantly ranting about AF performance.....

In regards to Raw vs Log formats, while its nice to have a the ability to change color temp and ISO in RedRaw, etc. The Kodak Cineon system, a 10 bit RGB 4:4:4 Log format was the gold standard for over 20 years when scanning film for digital processing in VFX and later for Digital Intermediates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cineon Every post house on the planet worth its salt should be comfortable delivering professional results using a 10 bit log "digital negative". It wasn't until the rise of HD video acquisition over the last 10 years that raw became a thing. And the early reaction to Red's raw format was mostly met with derision due to its lossy (gasp!) compression format. Attitudes have definitely changed as people got used to the new formats. I think the big step up in the video/DSLR space was when we went from 8-bit video recording to a 10-bit log format like the GH5 offered. The 8-bit log formats from Technicolor's Cinestyle, to C-Log, S-log, V-log are just too prone to banding and color artifacts when pushed heavily. The ability to shoot raw is nice, but 10 bit log is a totally viable format for any post house to work with and deliver great results.

Whilst I agree that the RAW back and forth discussion has definitely run its course; the last thing this thread needs is people just telling me what this camera can do and how wonderful Canon is being back in the game and delivering the goods etc etc.. I can read Canons marketing brochure for that. Any camera announcement thread should allow for talk of both the praise and the disappointments of a new camera, and shutting such chat down like lack of evf, fullframe and RAW for talk on how Canon finally strikes back is not of any interest to me. Let me make clear, I like this camera. I like it a lot and I will be seriously looking at buying one. However I want a balanced look at the pros and cons and not a fluff piece on Canon to help guide my decision. None of us have the camera yet and taking any critics of it now as though its a personal attack helps no one. Everytime we get this with new cameras, especially Canon products; we hear counter arguments like, this camera wasn't designed for you, or its made for a different market... which is crap. In a World where a hybrid does 8K when many professional video cameras do not, where we have BRAW from BM for just over a $1000, when even RED are bringing one of their cameras into the affordable range for low to mid budget users, I get weary being told what a camera should and shouldn't be. I do welcome positive talk of this camera and how this camera can work for you. I also welcome discussions where this camera may let certain people down and why. Looking at both sides will help me decide if this is the right camera for me.

That's my thinking too. I actually prefer the C100 style body for this reason.

Yes, for the indie "no budget" circuit. Don't think it is ultra popular (popular? Yes! But "everywhere"? No) in the low budget professional world. Bingo, within a couple of years, they'll be selling for what C100mk2 are selling today.

The thing about the comparison to stills photography you're making is that there was only ever jpeg and raw, so obviously raw was the way to go. But now there are high efficiency compressed stills formats that are changing things. Plus, storage costs are a huge factor in maintaining profitability. I for one love having robust 10 bit compressed codecs so I can maximize margin.

The problem with the ATEM Mini Pro is that you'll look at the ATEM Mini Pro ISO and think "yeah, I might as well go all in and get that one" 😉 The ATEM Mini Pro ISO is an incredibly versatile and capable piece of gear and if you were going in to this do different types of jobs as well, like shooting live music shows for example where you are providing a live stream and also want to post edit it, then it is perfect, particularly if you are using BM Pocket cameras. If you are just doing this straightforward live football thing then its not exactly overkill, particularly if you are tasked with producing an edited version with replays from different angles etc, but the "four buttons and a screen" aspect of the Feelworld has some big advantages usability and simplicity wise. In that instance, the extra budget might be better off being diverted the upload side of things or remote cameras etc. Or just save yourself the agonising and buy both !

I found EOSHD because of RX100. I participated in this site because of the GX85... even bought a EOSHD Pro Color. Ventured onto Sony FF, regretted every minute, again bought EOSHD Pro Color. Went back to M43 and I'll stay there for the foreseeable future. IMO, which camera has: best image: S1H, BMPCC 4k best AF: A7 III best allrounder (photo and video): GH5, A7 III best value: GX85 most versatile for its size: Sigma FP Those are tough choices though and I haven't used all of them. Also, lens selection is probably equally as important when using AF.

This is my portable video tripod setup, for when I need to be able to move around quickly. I originally built this for doing video work on 1-2 week solo wilderness trips. But it has turned out to be a stable and capable video tripod for more mobile shoots where I need to reposition a lot. Gitzo GT1540G AcraTech 45622 leveling base Gitzo GHF2W 2 way video head The tripod itself is my old but trusty Gitzo GT1540G Carbon Fiber Mountaineering tripod (I think they are on GT1542G now?). This thing has been everywhere and never failed me, yet I can carry it with all my wilderness and camera gear. For it's weight it is very stabile. The video head is fairly new, as I recent added it to get better quality pan and tilts in the field (literally, lol). It's the Gitzo GHF2W video head, weighing only 1.3 pounds, yet still has a counter balance system and for under 9 pound setups you can dial in the tension pretty decent. NOT an Ozen or Sachtler by any means, my main requirements for this one was more about weight, speed, but still with functional video capabilities. That black mass between the video head and tripod is the AcraTech 45622 Leveling base. Since this tripod isn't like my heavier duty 75mm or 100mm bowl setup, and couldn't support the leveling arm passing through, I added this leveling base, so I could still get a quick level, but on a non bowl tripod. It works great and is fast. This setup is about a 1 man, small rig, where you need to grab a bunch of different locked down shots. My shoot next weekend is just an event video for Oktoberfest, so I will be using this and my Ronin S. Some of it will be of the live band and dancing, so that will all be done from this tripod setup using the 4 channel audio setup too. All the mobile stuff will be on the Ronin S (Once I get the Kondor Blue setup, I plan on doing more shoulder shooting and less gimbal, as I like the look a should rig footage here and there.

in my opinion, Gh1 and Gh2 with hacks they were the turning point for everyone....that's history.... I still have my little gh2 with drithwood... what do you remember ...

The exceptions, not the norm. Exactly, it is in line with what C100 series was at release. And a lot cheaper than the C200 was originally.

Great so you DO you think the sensor size has nothing to do with any difference so we do agree! Of course if you do not agree with that, you would be able to prove it with science since you cannot prove it with photos (as any differences in photos taken with systems not identically scaled can be explained by difference in the systems.). Now unless you CAN provide something (ANYTHING) showing how (often tiny) differences in photos could not even remotely be explained by differences in the equipment, I think we have gone several pages too far and I am out Really really really this time).

Several years ago I discover EOSHD and bought GH2,My first camera photo/video, and Moller 32 anamorphic 2x. Since then EOSHD is the main info about independent low budget source. I really enjoy info about cinema, cameras and editor's personal point of view . I respect that. Second camera pocket, where is my main videos made. With GH5 , I return to Panasonic, but now working only with P4K. Long life to EOSHD! BEST!

For those interested in DIY projects today I tested my new invention - a DIY video jib using a decoy retriever with a tripod fluid head at the end - it makes for really nice smooth raise and lower shots. I've included some video on my blog. https://www.springbokphotography.com/blog/2020/9/26/diy-budget-video-jib

Thanks - I hope to fine tune it a little more in future 🙂

@Desmond Downs Great idea! Thanks for sharing!

I agree, the C70 looks very good and is decently priced for Canon. I think it will be a smash success, though I still can't in good conscience support them until they show they've changed their attitude towards customers.

A few surprises there. No A7s but the RX100 makes the list? Have both, love both but for video?, no contest, the A7s is my all time favourite camera and the RX100 my all time favourite pocket camera. The little RX100 does have some party tricks though. It does seem to be two lists in one. cameras that are good video camera but cheap and top end hybrid cameras.

Love my Super Taks - all I'm gonna say.

The GX85 thread helped me decide to try a 4K camera with IBIS. That lead me to leaving Canon (C100 and 700D) for a GH5, GH5S and GX85 (Hong Kong no recording limit). On the whole I have been happy as although I loved the C100, the Panasonics are a lot lighter and I can carry a 3 camera kit in a back pack. So that was my favourite thread.

Good point. Panasonic aways chose to add a special feature or two, to chase market share and they have provided supreme value for money over the years. Where is the 10bit full frame camera from the other manufacturers at the same price as the S1 for instance? Or anamorphic cameras for under $2K. But people see a Canon badge and go mental. Another crippled very high margin product. The same people who would deride the lack of IBIS or EVF on a cheap mirrorless camera under $1000 seem to give Canon a pass when these are missing at $5500. I do get that it's a cinema camera and image is a big step up from C100. It is by no means a poor camera. I just personally would have found an EVF very useful. I'd also have preferred a full frame sensor. IBIS is another big one. But yes if you are into crop sensor look with good dynamic range, I am sure the C70 ticks a lot of boxes.

Here's the XLR-K3M running 4 channels into the A7SIII. This way you inject 24bit/48khz digital signals straight into the media file and have dials and switches of control. In the A7SIII screen shot you can see the 4 channels levels on the bottom left with a peak marker. Once the XLR-K3M is plugged in, you can no longer control levels in the camera, it is all controlled on the outside dials of the XLR-K3M. My typical setup and what I used in this example is a boomed MKH-416 on Channel 1, the XLR mic that came with the XLR-K3M as the on-camera mic (or could be a second boomed mic) as Channel 2, and 2 RODE Wireless Go setups using a splitter that runs one of the lav setups as the left channel (Channel 3) and the other as the right channel (Channel 4). I verified that I can take the MP4 from the A7SIII with these 4 audio channels into Premiere and see each of the 4 channels and can control each one separately. For me this is HUGE, because you are basically looking at the FX9 I could not afford (or justify this year) and I needed 4 channels of audio preferably not external, for doing in studio or on location interviews.

SWEET, my A7S3 came in today. So far, so good, can't properly test it just yet, but hopefully this weekend. I tried posting using my cell phone, where I had some photos, but it was an epic fail, LOL. Anyone know how to delete a Topic on the root? It wouldn't let me. Any way, will try to get some footage up this weekend. No promises, was already going to be a busy one.

I'm going to wager that the grown-up conversation going on on the other thread about the exciting new camera and it's capabilities is going to be a lot more interesting than this one. Just a hunch.

go ahead... tell me how stupid i look in this thumbnail.

Some tests and a review from Brandon Li. Chris

Skin tones look good to me. Even at iso 50,000 they look natural whereas previously there would be a strong yellow or green shift. Also that rolling shutter performance is incredible