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  1. It'd still be like 2 stops shy of the Alexa if the Alexa is having a bad day. Blackmagic do great stuff, but it's not like it's a Jesus camera. It's a fairly standard sensor in a box with some decent codecs. Everyone selling Pocket to Alexa luts are snake oil salesmen who prey on this kind of wishful thinking.
    3 points
  2. Yes, stand for most mirrorless cameras. These are not things that are becoming standard for cinema cameras, in part because they can be objectively detrimental. Like I said, if someone wants those things, get a mirrorless camera with them. People seem to think that because of the price point of the Blackmagics that they're supposed to have these things, instead of them being affordable options to five-figure cinema cameras. No one is out here asking why the latest RED or Arri doesn't have amazing PDAF with eye detection or IBIS. These cameras are absolutely no different.
    3 points
  3. I mean... that is a boat. I shoot handheld with my Pocket 4k all the time. Mostly with unstabilised lenses like the Sigma 18-35. It just depends on the look you want. With the announcement, the thing that got me most excited is the firmware for the other pockets. The new histogram is alright I suppose, but Gen5 colour inside the camera will be great. I also noticed the new camera shoots more versions of Braw, with Q1 and Q3 being added, so for now I'm assuming that will also come to the other cameras. Making my 2 main hopes a reality.
    3 points
  4. That doesn't make the camera a hand-held camera, it makes those lenses handheld lenses. Name a camera that isn't a handheld camera then. It's like saying that my dining room table is a cocktail table because it is compatible with cocktail making equipment. By that logic my dining table is also a boat table, because:
    3 points
  5. It’s statements like this that have made me step away form this forum. It seems every forum post is some over dramatic hyperbole reaction or continuous anti canon pitchforks (I wonder why?). How can we have a serious conversation when people like you are saying the pocket 6k destroys the c70? It is the same camera as the pocket 6k - with a tilt screen and 6 stops of ND. That’s all it takes to “kill the C70”, which was being hailed 24 hours ago? The pocket 6k has BRAW over the c70. The c70 for the 20th time has a better sensor with more DR. The c70 has a better battery. The c70 has significantly better auto focus. The c70 records to dual SD cards. The c70 has a significantly better mount, with a speed booster that turns it into full frame. Wether any of these points mean anything to you or not, is besides the point. Even if you find the pocket 6k better for you because it has BRAW is besides the point. The point is that saying the pocket 6k “kills” the c70 is ridiculous. We live in a time where none of these cameras kill each other. A7s3, pocket 6k, c70, etc. are all amazing tools and in the right hands you’d be hard pressed to find folks that can even tell difference. I’m out.
    3 points
  6. It's true, the Fuji colours are exceptional at times. I'd love it if the X-T3 was able to output ProRes Raw or something.
    2 points
  7. Depends if you need a two camera setup or not. Keep in mind the F3 really shines with an external recorder. Without you are only getting an 8 bit image. You can't really go wrong with any option these days. As long as you aren't insane like me and buy and sell your cameras every 6 months.
    2 points
  8. scotchtape

    Sony A7S III

    S-cinetone being added to a7siii via firmware!!!
    2 points
  9. Why is everything about vlogging? Who is buying a $2500 cinema camera for vlogging? There's literally dozens of other cameras that are better suited to that and cost significantly less. Who needs a full frame sensor for vlogging? A Panasonic G9 or Olympus E-M1 series, or E-M5 series, or Fuii X-T4/S-10, etc etc etc... are all right there and much better options. Flip out screens can interfere with cables and ports, unless you do what Panasonic did with the S1H, which is nice, but significantly increases the thickness. The a7sIII has issues with using the flip out screen while having HDMI or other cables attached. I'd rather have internal ND filters than IBIS. Does ANY camera have both? I'm just bewildered by why so many people want features in a cinema camera that aren't really beneficial to making cinema... CAF, vlogging features, IBIS, it's like everyone wants every camera to be exactly the same, even at the expense of cost, usability, or personal preferences. Like everything you mentioned is in the a7sIII, Panasonic S1H & S5, Canon R5 & R6, and a ton of other cameras if you strike the FF sensor.
    2 points
  10. Handheld is very doable with a lens that has OIS tho.
    2 points
  11. Literally, the first thing underneath the name of the camera is: HANDHELD..... I carefully read the page looking for IBIS, but no mention of it. So, it's handheld for the same reason that any other camera under 3Kg is handheld. Excuse me while I sip my handheld coffee, contemplate all my handheld lenses and handheld memory cards and type this on my handheld laptop. I'd like to see them create the GH5 successor. It's an entirely different market, but within reach. People loved the GH5 for video because: IBIS reliability, no overheating, and battery life good codecs anamorphic and slow-motion modes flippy screen MFT lens mount can adapt most other lens mounts compact and light for hand-held and gimbal use low price for the features (at the time) The BM cameras meet quite a lot of these, but for many including myself, the P4K is a mixture of things I don't want/need and the absence of things I use all the time. I own a Micro, their cheapest current camera, and it's nothing like the GH5 in terms of usability - apart from being cheap it has almost nothing in common with the GH5 or how I shoot for that matter. I'm aware that the GH5 is a hybrid, but I suspect many users don't care about stills, and besides, BM don't seem to understand that the P6KPro isn't a hybrid. I think there's room in their lineup for a more video-centric camera that fits into the above spec, and it wouldn't be cannibalising much of their existing customer base, as not many GH5 fans could use a P4K, and not many P4K fans could use a GH5. There seems to be an entire market segment of wedding videographers, music video creators, social media influencers, who are faced with the choice of a camera that can shoot how they want (reliable in the field and fast to work with) and what they want (RAW and high-bitrate/bit-depth codecs) but there aren't many cheap offerings that span this gap. These people are doing comparisons like A7S3 vs Komodo vs C70 and the like. These comparisons always have the tone of Lamborghini vs Hummer vs Mercedes S-Class - all great performers but for vastly different tasks and if these things are being directly compared then there is something wrong. Oh, and nothing is remotely affordable. This seems like a gap in the market to me.
    2 points
  12. Are there any real scientific tests of the actual DR of the C70? If so, can you link to them? Gerald Undone used a Xyla chart and came up with 13 stops of DR, which put it pretty much in line with an a7S 3 or a Panasonic S1 / S1H / S5. I am truly hoping that it is NOT 16 Stops of DR because I really don't want to spend all that money for one.
    2 points
  13. It really is remarkable how opposite their body designs are from their OS. One is ugly as sin, the other is truly elegant. Unless you need auto focus it's hard to justify getting the C70 over this. There's A LOT of value in this. $2,500 for all of that is a tremendous value.
    2 points
  14. Origami101

    Panasonic GH6

    I'll go further and say there should be a future for M4/3 but might not since Panasonic's backed themselves into a strategic corner. To start with, why should M4/3 hang around? Well, aside from the obvious benefits that it generally yields smaller and lighter camera kits —especially for telephoto—has sufficient image quality for both stills and video and is broadly supported, there’s two other distinct advantages. The first is, for any given sensor generation, a M4/3 sensor will read data off faster. This is where I think the traditional camera makers have gotten lost. Did the stunning jumps in iPhone image quality come from bigger sensors? They’ve gotten marginally larger, but no. The jumps have come from throwing massive amounts of computational power at the data, which means reading it as fast as you can. Blown highlights? Merge multiple exposures. Terrible low-light performance? Same! But with different algorithms. Excessive depth of field? Depth map! A smaller, but still sufficient, sensor like M4/3 fits the computational imaging paradigm better. And as a bonus, they’ll also hold an edge in IBIS, heat generation, and battery drain due to the smaller size and mass. The second is smaller sensors—or more accurately, smaller image circles—have distinct theoretical advantages for lens design. I don’t pretend to understand the theory, though I do know the complexity of making lens elements increases with the cube of its diameter, so all things equal you should get better, smaller, or cheaper lenses for M4/3 for any given field of view versus larger formats. Which leads to the tragedy of Panasonic going the L mount route (in the dumb business decision sense, not Romeo and Juliette). I get the rationale of wanting to consolidate their cinema and Lumix lines on one mount, and the logic m4/3 was too small for the former. The problem was they picked a sensor size, 135 format, putting them in direct competition with Sony and Canon, who offered, or were inevitably going to offer, soup to nuts mirrorless solutions, picked a mount designed for APS-C, and stranded their entire current user base. Heck of a job, guys. Worse, since L mount is now their halo product, they’ll be loathe to undercut it by offering better features on m4/3, even if they’re technically feasible. So a GH6 that substantially outperforms the S1 or S1H? Probably not going to happen, even if S series sales continually underperform. But I would love to be proved wrong.
    2 points
  15. There's a large swath of people who just want things to work with absolutely no hassle. I have friends who are very good at making movies--better than me, in fact--and are making a living from their art, but would be unable to go on ebay and buy a vintage lens because they can't wrap their head around adapters, and would end up ordering something incompatible. And personally, if I'm adapting to EF anyway... I don't mind an EF mount. I see no reason to add another point of mechanical and software failure. The chances of me ever needing a different mount are vanishingly small. Given the option, I'd probably go with a shallower flange for the exclusive reason of boosting to FF, if I ever wanted to. I'm just saying it's not a deal breaker since I'm 99.9% going to using EF anyway. Yeah true, absolute beginner classes will be handing out fixed lens camcorders, not Blackmagics. But an intro to cinematography class, or anything beyond the "Intro to Film & Video" lecture definitely could. I worked on 4(?) undergrad/grad thesis films in the past 5 years that used blackmagic cameras, and every one of them would have had an easier time with the P6K compared to the 2.5k's and Ursa minis that we did use. I'm not sure it's useful either to first learn about front filters, batteries, rigs, and rigamarole. It's not necessary to learning the art of filmmaking, and it's certainly something that can be taught if there is an interest. It's like asking screenwriting students to start out with typewriters.
    1 point
  16. If learning from Internet forums is aiming high, what's aiming low? 😉 Then again, seeing how you responded to a clearly more experienced person trying to answer your question on clamping a camera to glass, I am not surprised your learning is more conflicted than my own. 🤣🤣🤣
    1 point
  17. 1 point
  18. I can find lots of faults with Fuji, but their colour science is just great... I think he is confusing smaller cameras destined for Asian markets where skin over-processing is something that is sought for with what the X-T series can output. My X-t2,3 and 4 are stellar in this. It all sounds like a bad YouTube video reeking of fanboyitis shouting for Full frame good, aps-c bad. I will concede that Panasonic has improved , there was a poster here with one of the S series cameras that posted some great footage, but even that has a video look to it in most cases. Prores raw externally may come eventually to Fuji but I am very happy with great 10 bit log footage as well. Take the C70 for example. Its 10bit output seems better to my eyes than Blackmagic's raw efforts. I have found the 10 bit footage from the X-T3- X-T4 very malleable to correct/transform if exposed decently enough. Back to the F-X3 now. I read that They just released Cinetone for the A7siii
    1 point
  19. You should share what you are drinking buddy . Keep the Panasonic vcr colours , we will keep the lovely and unparalleled Fuji colour science.. You have no idea on how to use one do you??
    1 point
  20. Very true @SteveV4D, people here should listen you more because I cannot recall a single post of yours where you had missed the point : ) Very happy Pocket series camper here too and I guess no one can call me their fanboy either : D
    1 point
  21. How common are "lemons"? A serious question.
    1 point
  22. What type of work do you do? Not trying to question your legitimacy or anything just curious. It is pretty crazy how far compressed codecs have come but yeah won't cut it for every job. I wish 12 bit codecs would become a standard in cameras tho. Panasonic has always impressed me with the image they put out for the price.
    1 point
  23. Cool, I'll take a look if I get a chance. I'd also be interested to see more raw footage from the FX6. So far I've only downloaded the CVP clips.
    1 point
  24. What do Pocket to Alexa luts have to do with the cameras dynamic range? Those type of luts are pretty useful if you are trying to match the two cameras or if you just want better color without a lot of work. Juan Melara and GHAlex do great work with their color conversions. Honestly for the price it is like a Jesus camera. What else comes close to this anywhere near the $2500 price range, at least in terms of image quality.
    1 point
  25. Sounds like a lemon to me. Did I say handheld camera anywhere? I said you can do handheld with an OIS lens. If you look at most of the Pocket camera product photos they are shown using OIS lenses. My Fuji xt3 with an 18-55 kit lens was fantastic for handheld and had the benefit of a zoom range. It's not misleading to say you can easily do handheld with this camera. OIS lenses are relatively cheap and light weight and many already have them. There are drawbacks to it of course like anything else.
    1 point
  26. man I didn't say it was a Jesus camera, I said it distributes its DR more closely to the Alexa than a number of other cameras that favor the shadows. If you somehow take that as "it's as good as an Alexa" then that's on you.
    1 point
  27. We'll soon know what they are thinking. For interoperability with the FX line, at minimum true 24P and I suspect DCI will be required.
    1 point
  28. Actually that makes it even more sound like just an A7sIII in another housing since both may as well use exactly the same firmware now. So you're still handicapped by horrible NR, oversharpening at -7 detail, no shutter angle, no 3D Lut support for output via HDMI, no scopes, no 48p, no true 24p, no DCI 4K etc. But yaaay Cinetone 🙄
    1 point
  29. I think it's a bit overstated how good the highlight rolloff is on the P6K. I think the colour science is a bit Arri-like but the sensor is nowhere near as capable of holding bright highlights. I will say that from my limited testing, the C70 is no slouch due to the DGO sensor. I can probably test it at some point if I rent a P6K. It'd be interesting to see where they all land.
    1 point
  30. It's odd that my learning process isn't quite as riddled with confusion as yours. Yes I bought some items I ended up not needed. That is normal and had nothing to do with misleading advertising or comments on the Web. It's just that what sounded good in theory didn't work for me in practise. Or maybe it didn't fit my way of working. No one but me will know that, so there was nothing anyone else could say or do to change that. It was my mistake to make and to take ownership of. I don't blame others for it. Again if I or Panasonic described the GH4 as a handheld camera, I doubt I'd hear a peep from you. Assign the same term to another camera brand and its suddenly a bone of contention. Would you describe the GH5s as handheld? If Blackmagic advertised that you could film stable footage handheld, then yes, it is misleading advertising. Describing it as handheld, just means it's small enough to be held in one's hand whilst working with it. In this case, it is true. As born out my those of us who do so. To me the Pocket cameras are handheld tools in the same way my GH4 cameras are and my GH5s. I can hold and operate them entirely with my hands, without any additional straps or support. Therefore Blackmagic isn't being misleading. They even have a handgrip....
    1 point
  31. It's truly a phenomenal lens, though for very specific needs. But if you have those needs, there's nothing else remotely comparable. I just got a DJI OM4 gimbal, it's AWESOME. That + the Moment anamorphic adapter and iPhone 11 make for a very cool combo. I recently got a DJI Mavic 2 Pro and it's a stunning piece of equipment for photos and video. Hasselblad colors are the best out there.
    1 point
  32. I paid 400 for the optitek or whatever it is. (Since then I have sold the whole setup.) That’s kind of a lot if you’re paying 900 for the body. It’s just nice to have image stabilized lenses as an option. Not sure what they go for these days
    1 point
  33. After Effects can be fun to explore once you understand the workflow, and the workflow is covered in a lot of Youtube videos so don't be too worried about a steep learning curve. Also take a look at Synthetik Studio Artist they have a demo that would allow some exploration, it's an endless demo that uses a watermark so at least you could check out if it's useful for you, good luck.
    1 point
  34. You had a lot more valuable kit to sell than me moving from Panasonic to Sony! I currently only have; S5, 20-60, 85, complimentary Sigma 45 and a spare battery...which if sold wouldn’t even buy an FX3 body! My use case scenario was: pair of FX3’s plus Tamron 28-75 and 70-180 which I reckon would be circa 10k? What I have is enough for my commercial stuff but not enough for weddings and at min, need another S5 and the 24-105. If I can stretch to it, I’ll go S1H for that other body though as it has a number of attributes that would work for me over another S5.
    1 point
  35. In my opinion, this looks like an absolutely wonderful camera for people who want good images without complex rigs. Most of us here are very tech minded and love adapters, and external rig parts, but I don't think this style camera is aimed at us. No adapters, no front-of-lens ND filters, no rigged batteries (if you use the grip), no external monitor or recorder. I'm sure many schools will be buying these. Simple enough for intro classes, don't need to teach students how to rig it up just to use it, but still makes great images. IBIS would make it more handheld-friendly in some cases, sure, but would also increase cost. I suspect IBIS requires more engineering, R&D, and QC than any feature Blackmagic has. Add IBIS and the price goes up. For any planned shoot, a gimbal does a better job anyway. Even a wide set of handles with good balance makes up for it.
    1 point
  36. IronFilm

    Sony F3 as 2nd camera?

    US$500? Yeah that's roughly what I'd gut guess an a7S mk1 would be. Shoot in 4K to deliver in high quality HD.
    1 point
  37. IronFilm

    Sony F3 as 2nd camera?

    Damn, that's a GREAT PRICE! Even prior to Caleb's video putting the price spike on FS700 bodies. Is it the 4K raw version? With the price spike of the F3 (again, thanks to Caleb....) I'd pass on the F3 for now. Maybe get an OG a7S mk1 as a dirt cheap B Cam to your FS700? At least you can easily put that on a gimbal if you need to (or whatever else you want a small camera for, like a lightweight slider, or jib, or car rig), unlike the FS700/F3. Plus the same 4K recorder you use with the FS700, you can use to get 4K out of the a7S mk1 as well. Mine was removed from my F3 before I even bought it. As it just got in the way of the user, and there was no use for it.
    1 point
  38. No the Pocket 6k. It has amazing highlight retention and shadows not far off from an Alexa.
    1 point
  39. It's killed the C70, only reasons to get a C70 now are: 1) autofocus 2) desire for a shall mirrorless mount (damn you BMD, give us a MFT Mount! Or even E Mount) 3) belief in the magical "Canon color science" 4) irrational hatred of BMD (we know many of those people exist!) (as for DR, am always ultra skeptical about manufacturer claims, have we seen a head to head shoot out in a controlled manner between a C70 and P6K? As for battery life, once you slap a V Mount on it, this hardly matters) Do I detect sarcasm? It would be sarcasm if I wrote it! ha Yes, but the C200 is known for having a bad old sensor in it. No surprises there that it out performs the C200.
    1 point
  40. The a7s3 gets its dynamic range number w/ noise reduction - artificially boosting the S/R of 2, which CineD (and Gerald later adopted). The c70 is 13+ stops at that S/R if I recall correctly, better than the a7s3--or the fx6 (below 13), which makes sense because of the c70's dual gain sensor. Only the Alexa is better.
    1 point
  41. Not sure how that makes sense nor how that would even work, as it appears that they would have to retool the camera body to do so. Furthermore, there is no technical reason to have a permanent EF mount to incorporate "internal" filters. The camera could have an established shallow mount or a shallow interchangeable lens mount flange. One could then use one of the existing third-party EF adapters with internal NDs and/or use a more integrally designed adapter offered by Blackmagic. None of these options could make the camera any uglier.
    1 point
  42. Alexa's rolling shutter performance isn't that impressive. Alexa XT: 8ms in 16:9/4:3 2880 sensor mode, 13ms in open gate sensor mode. Alexa LF: 14ms open gate mode. Alexa 65: 15.6ms open gate mode.
    1 point
  43. Every time I tell myself to step away, I get sucked back in. Yes you will get more DR out of the C70. Let me tell you straight from the horses mouth. I have owned a C200, pocket 4k, pocket 6k, and ursa mini. I now own a C70 and it has more DR than all of them. The C70 is far superior to my C200, CLOG 2 and color grading 10 bit footage is way better than 8 bit footage or canons heavy raw lite - which is not lite at all. Your statement says C200/C300 users say they dont think the image is better, but that statement itself is confusing. The C300 is the same sensor so of course it isnt any better... The c70 destroys my c200. I am not saying its the best camera for everyone and I am not trying to fanboy all over this thread by saying all other cameras suck. But some of the comments on here are underselling a true workhorse of a camera in the C70 and are kinda downplaying how amazing the DGO sensor is.
    1 point
  44. The Cost for Panasonic to have Sony manufacture a MFT 4/3 sensor, that isn’t a security camera sensor with a very narrow feature set, is probably rising by the day. Especially since Olympus is essentially gone. They said they were going to look into leaning into MFT strengths and their next cameras was...the BGH1. I would be very surprised to see a GH6, especially since Panasonic had been completely quiet. They would be better off making their FF cameras competitive because everything is trending up from there.
    1 point
  45. C70 is a workhorse camera for run n gun, Pocket 6K more a cinema camera. I liked the C70 but you pay a lot for it, and yes it has more DR, but how often will I need those extra stops. I rarely clip with the Pocket 4K aside from those situations where even the C70 would have issues with. The extra range of ND and The AF would be useful, but the trade off. No 6K, smaller screen, ability to record record SSD which I love, BRAW vs H264, a colour science I prefer over Canon and a lot cheaper too. Two entirely different cameras for different needs and style of shooting. The C70 shouldn't be like the Pocket 6K pro and vice versa. We all need variety not copycats. I choose the Pocket 6K Pro. It's the best choice for me. Of course the reverse is true for those who buy the C70.
    1 point
  46. Fair point. Sorry if I misjudged.. That said, I'm no longer one to complain about spending now. That new Pocket 6K Pro just announced will be preordered by me once I can. I'm hopeful some work will come from this year and I've still got savings to pay for it. I'll take a chance and hope like you did last year that things will play out. I'll probably pick up some Corporate work once lockdown ends I the UK as I did last September.
    1 point
  47. I dunno - it's definitely the camera Batman would use.
    1 point
  48. TomTheDP

    Sony F3 as 2nd camera?

    Different color science. Could replace the FS700 if you don't need 4k. An external recorder is really essential to get the best image out of this camera. Its probably not going to hold its value well but if it works for you an generates money that's all that matters. The view finder is often broken or faulty on used models so I assume it's a problematic part. Not essential to the function of the camera though. I like the ergonomics on the F3, though the menus suck hard but you already have an FS700 so you know that.
    1 point
  49. Thank you for the explanation. That was my previous understanding though less technically minded. What led to my confusion is dynamic range measurements. The Pocket 6k has considerably more shadow and highlight information than the URSA 4.6k even though the URSA is measured having more dynamic range by CineD and BM themselves. I know because I've tested both cameras and the difference not even debatable. The P6K killed the URSA. I've found the highlight recovery tool in Resolve to be very useful unless you are recovering skintones or really critical stuff. In regards to the FX3 I am definitely interested if they get rid of the nasty internal processing.
    1 point
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