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The crazy thing is that a couple years ago everybody was complaining that Canon wasn't giving its customers enough resolution. Now they give 8K and people still hate them.

You know, I'm really looking forward to someone talking about the shutter speed on the R5C. I mean, how does it work? I know that the numbers are similar to other cameras, but I don't want to make any comparisons that get different results. You've really opened my eyes about that, I mean when you take the exact same technology and take it from one device to another how can we really be sure that the fundamental principles will be the same? Does a shorter shutter speed give a darker image, like on every other camera ever made, or is it different, maybe it gives a lighter image? Maybe the colours start to go strange? Maybe people who are happy get brighter? How does the rotation of the earth factor in? I wouldn't want to make a comparison that will give different results all around. and what about ISO? Are higher numbers better? Does it go up and down? Maybe the even numbers are good? Once again, every other camera ever made works in the same way, but can we really compare? I mean, what do we know about anything anyway? None of us has ever used an R5C. Maybe the images are from another camera and it's a hoax? How can we know it really exists? How can we know anything? Are you real? Am I even real?

This is a nice example of the camera used in a doc setting. It looks like 100% tripod / Ronin-S so they avoid the IBIS limitation there. I think the oversampled image looks great even on Youtube.

1Gbps is fine for 8K RAW, but if you were shooting a documentary with literally hundreds (maybe even 1000+) hours of footage, halving the bitrate is a significant thing and can make a huge difference. The way that documentaries are going now you need to have a build-up and climax, which works for things like athletes preparing for a competition, or some other kind of fixed deadline, but it's very common for people shooting a documentary to not have an end-date. These situations are very difficult to finance as there's no guarantee of having a good climax or even of having a story where anything happens. Shooting is normally done with the DoP essentially "on call" and the subjects reach out when anything specific is happening and the DoP drops what they're doing and goes to shoot. For this reason it's common for the DoP to own all their own gear (you can't rent a camera or lenses on one-hours notice in the middle of the night) and so these are often self-funded, and can take years to film. This situation is actually quite a likely one for something like the R5C, where a DoP would own something like this and rent more expensive gear for bigger projects, but would rent out this and their own set of (likely vintage) lenses with them when hired on smaller budget productions. In this sense, having a "medium" bitrate that's still Netflix-approved would matter more for a camera like this than a cheaper hybrid or more expensive cinema camera. Canon are well regarded for the colour science of their skin-tones, but they are absolutely NOT well regarded for the quality of their compressed codecs on their hybrid cameras. That's what we're talking about here. I see ML RAW frame grabs from a 5D3 regularly (thanks to @mercer) and when shot properly and graded with a simple LUT the skin-tones should remind you of an Alexa. If you're not going "wow" then something horrible has happened to the image. Think about all the you tubers who are shooting 4K with Canon FF cameras - when was the last time you looked at one of their videos and thought "holy cr*p those colours are AMAZING"....? Never? Exactly.... Ummm..... how? Digital stabilisation can line up the frames with each other, but OIS / IBIS actually stabilises DURING THE EXPOSURE OF EACH FRAME. If you have ANY motion blur in ANY frame then it's there forever and digital stabilisation can't do a single thing about it. Even worse though, is that once the digital stabilisation has worked its magic, the shot looks smooth but there will be random blurring of frames without any corresponding change to the overall shot. In other words, digital stabilisation without having very short shutter speeds will look worse than no stabilisation at all.

Maybe it has to do with the high resolution / noise reduction / skin softening. I just get iPhone vibes with the whole color pallet and texture.

There is actually a desperate need for cameras that can shoot high quality VR180. Canon just put out a lens specifically for this purpose--which is meant for the R5. So at this point, nobody has a VR180 camera setup that can match Canon, other than customized mirrored/lens rigs that costs 10s of thousands of dollars. BTW, the camera you cited (Insta360 Pro 2) is absolute dogshit. It's not a professional solution by any standard. The Z CAM K1 Pro is probably the closest thing to the R5C, but it's a fixed lens camera, that can't go above 5.7K in 60fps. As per the amount of resolution a human eye can see, obviously distance matter, but in VR, the screen is up against your eyeball, so 8K is well within the limit of visible resolution.

At 22.5mm, it's not that much with just "OK" stabilization. If it were 22mm and great stabilization, it might be passable. Also, you could get it a little further away with a make-shit selfie stick. The X3000 was great... everyone is waiting for the successor to no avail. I think it really doesn't offer that much over a phone with a wide-angle on it though. It would seem customers are putting in much more thought into this type of camera than all the manufacturers.

"Nothing unique or special about the look" "They are all equivalent... APS-C, full frame, medium format" *Stops down GFX lens to F3.5...."Same look to DOF as APS-C at F1.8" FUCK When camera store salesman become an authority on photography and video... You get this! Widespread misinformation. Sad to see how many people in the YouTube comments just accept it. Stopping down a medium format camera and then complaining it can't do anything different to an APS-C model at F1.8???? Put a Minolta MD 58mm F1.2 on APS-C, full frame and medium format and tell me they all look equivalent! With same lens, look would be completely different on all 3. Equivalency is being taken to mean there is no difference in the look of different camera formats. It completely ignores the fact that lenses are matched to sensor size. If you take one designed for one format and apply it to another, it looks different! I wouldn't be surprised if they punted this out just to generate the heat. It is after all quite chilly in Canada.

🙂

"Evidently Clicking Town...."

In the ProAV video the stationary handheld OIS + Digital IS versus IBIS and the results for the digital was just as good if not better without weird warping corners which you would have to crop to get rid of anyway. I'm not saying Digital IS is going to completely replace IBIS. They each have their trade offs and IMHO optical IS + Digital IS seems to offer less artifacts at wider focal lengths than IBIS can in video. Until we have IBIS mechanisms that can be completely lock down then there will be a market for both. IBIS is clearly beneficial but its not going to suddenly make your camera into a gimbal stabilized beast, not yet anyway.

Regardless of how you implement it, there are two fundamental principles: it happens after the frame has been exposed you can't un-blur an image Therefore, IBIS / OIS = frames not so blurry, Digital IS = frames hella blurry

Your needs don't fit someone's else and vice versa. As much, kind of work, style, etc.. : ) I don't think people are celebrating the lack of IBIS or instead the digital stabilization. I am still waiting to read that. Where? ; ) I just see the test with the camera mounted to the car proves that can even be more effective than IBIS is, or the same at least for shaky shots, as for instance. In my case, I don't give a damn if Canon's IBIS is inferior to any other competitor, no one pays me to be their fanboy and I don't need stabilization for anything other except when I'm using the gimbal and then no IBIS or any other method are any useful. So? If they can offer you a product without a feature you don't need, seems to me a better deal to not pay an extra cost for something you don't need, isn't it? IBIS or lack of it mantra can fit someone's cup but not everyone's. It's all about that.. EAG :- )

THIS is what people don't seem to understand when I say IBIS really is a big deal. THIS is exactly what I am talking about when I say I see horrible random jitter in all of the Canon digital IS clips I have watched if it was anything more than a slight pan or tilt. I saw it in the C70 footage and I see it in the R5c footage. I call it jitter, you call it blurring, but we are saying the same thing; digital stabilization looks very unnatural in more situations to my eyes than IBIS does and Canon's implementation of it is worse than GoPros and far worse than post processing like Davinci Resolve but the problem is it is baked into the footage. I can easily fix the IBIS wobble (which by the way I've literally never had a problem with when shooting on my S5) by shooting at a focal length longer than 24mm which is what I use anyway, but there is NOTHING you can do in post to fix the digital IS jitter. I say when you need to shoot at 16mm THATS when you should just use a gimbal for a camera with IBIS. For me that would be when shooting real estate and for real estate I actually do use a gimbal at all times. Exactly, everyone saying just use a gimbal hasn't walked in my shoes, or shot the projects that I work with on a daily basis. I have it all.....gimbals, monopods, tripods, sliders, etc and I literally cannot use any of them if I am shooting both photos and video for conferences, concerts, races, car shows, fashion shows etc. The only one I might be able to use is a monopod but even that would be a real PITA because I shoot portrait orientation for photos and landscape for video so I would need a special bracket to change orientations quickly and you can forget about quick low shots of say a car logo or a detail shot of a boat trailer. Not to mention a monopod puts a real crimp on creativity. And like you mentioned, everyone breathing a sigh of relief that Canon removed their IBIS because it "fixes" the IBIS wobble are somehow celebrating that Canon failed to develop IBIS as good as Panasonic's, removed it, then replaced it with an artificial looking digital IS. GoPro has the best digital IS I have ever used and I use it all the time for underwater video footage; and at times even it does some crazy warping thing that I have to throw away in post because it is impossible to fix. I saw that video test, it did not change anything for me. OK, no IBIS is better for driving in a car with the camera mounted to the car......something I have literally never done in my 10+ yrs of filming.

Exactly. Not only did Canon pave the way for 8K but also internal RAW, the holy grail people have been asking for since 5D2.. and now that its here, with compressed LT options even, people are still bitching the file sizes are too big etc. The funniest is hearing Panasonic users moaning about how the R5C uses DPAF1.. Canon just can't win here no matter what it seems!

Emanuel is right. Are you comparing the digital digitalization in-camera of the new R5C with Resolve from footage of a different camera? This will lead to different results all around.

No problem, I don't find it rude, I just think you're trying to express your point the best you can through a written form, sometimes we risk to seem rude and we don't intend to, only to make a point or even putting ours to debate : ) I did NOT write one replaces another, c'mon... Much different what I wrote. BTW, I am using IS glass since its introduction. I recall a test done with my 24-105 f/4 coupled to my 5DII 13 years ago even before this community was created by our webmaster. People then found pretty amazing how could an interview be shot handheld using an unexpected focal length going tele with that zoom lens. Still wondering if I hadn't used a tripod, monopod, anything extra to stabilize it, go figure! I obviously understand the contribution of the conclusions of your test, moreover the whole advantages you've fairly shown with. No doubt on it at all : ) Pretty clear and consensual. That's not my point. My point is that we cannot compare the digital stabilization of this camera model in particular with anything other from a different capture device, no matter what else. It's apples to oranges :- ) That car test (done with digital stabilization on a R5C vs IBIS R5) is very elucidative to everyone. Just not to people who don't watch it or have any bias or beef against, so better to not pay attention to it. I instead appreciate to rather praise and evolve my scope as much as I can, so I am always open to listen some new insight, no worries about. If you say, ah but let's change the variables such as shutter speed, focal length, etc. and take a new look? Now we're talking... ; ) So, I find it not exactly hopeful but just interesting any test under distinct premises, camera included.

I'm also a bit confused as to what "similar sized" means, because a GoPro and ZV don't seem that similar to me...

People love to whiningly complain, that's the whole picture :- )

I think the micro-HDMI is the worst cripple in my opinion. I honestly think realtime gyro enhanced digital stabilization will be the future. You sacrifice a slight crop and 1-axis of correction (the axis that causes the wobble anyway) for more stable footage without the need for a fast shutter. Well do we know if that is straight out of camera or has it been seasoned to this guys particular tastes? What recording mode + profile did he use and compression ratio? Hard to be conclusive when we don't know what was done. And even so, if the 8K RAW LT holds up and retains the detail then there is a fix at cost of higher (but not deal breaking) storage requirements. Anglebird has +4TB CFX cards coming. I do think Canon has slipped a little bit with their color. Other brands have made huge leaps in consistency and quality.

I think they have messed up the spec.... on canon official there is no open gate unfortunately: https://www.canon-europe.com/cameras/eos-r5c/specifications/

Eh this camera is pretty amazing if you compare it to the things we used to get. A 5D MKIV from 2016 was £3599 vs £4499 for this... and that camera essentially didn't work for video. The lack of IBIS genuinely stings a bit, but it's really tiny for an 8K 60P FF camera. I probably won't get one because my C70 does a similar job and for stills I'd prefer something even more compact like my Fuji, but I will probably recommend it to a companies I work with who want some kit to keep in-house.

Companies leaving China is duo to the rising production costs which is inherent in any Capitalist economy, thats why a lot of phone manufacturers assemble their devices in countries like Malay and Vietnam now duo to cheaper labour power and cheaper land costs. Canon which mostly make profit margins in their high end camera segments and lens selection past 10 years probably is looking to move production elsewhere for their lower end offerings probably to countries like Philippines, Vietnam, Malay or Indonesia. They essentially need places with stability, a competent workforce, low costs in land, construction and running costs but also very cheap labour, labour costs are the biggest hurdle for big business to overcome. Even Chinese companies produce stuff outside of China whenever they can these days, like in Vietnam, Thailand or North Korea which ironically has the best equipment and workforce for production costs comparable to other third world countries. Canon and everyone else realise that maintaining production in China in the long run is not good, rise of labour costs means the products will get more expensive, I am sure everyone has seen the rise of prices in technology past 10 years, its mostly tied to the Chinese labour cost rising. You can see this trend as well with america and European countries in the 60s and 70s when Japan was the factory of the world, once Japanese labour costs went up, so did cost of products made in Japan, thats when companies moved their production to likes of China and South Korea. I suspect Africa will be the next big expansion for Corporations to seek out for their hilariously low labour costs, either that or automation with robotics will become the norm for low cost production. Big business aint stupid, they too realise if they cannot keep their costs low as possible to maximise profit, people wont buy their products at certain prices, thats bad business no matter how shoddy made it is as long as the price is right people will buy.

Don't underestimate yourselves guys, the most part of hollywood stuff is plainly garbage (EAG :- )

For all of the clamps that get anamorphic adapters onto taking lenses, I've been struggling to build a kit where I can quickly switch out the taking lenses without having to realign the adapter. But I think I've found a good solution: reverse macro adapters. Reverse macro adapters (if you don't already know) are meant to put a lens mount on the front of the lens, so you can flip it around and mount the front element to the camera. There are also 'safety rings' that then lock into the lenses original EF mount to protect the rear element, and also gives you a threaded ring for whatever you want to put in front of the lens. So I found a cheap EF mount reverse macro system on Amazon, and with some step up and step down rings, mounted those puppies to my Rapido FMJ and RMJs, and boom: swapping my taking lens is not only quick, but also locks in with the anamorphic adapter already aligned : D