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In the last 8 years Streaming resolution has gone up. I remember when YouTube maxed at 720p and they called it HD! Streaming bitrates have gone up. Better codecs are being used. TV manufactures and streaming services are working on a true "cinema" display standard for viewing. Storage $/GB have continued to decline. Camera media is getting larger and more inexpensive (You can get a 512GB CFExpress card from Angelbird that can handle 8K for $179). Cameras are universally adding 10-bit color in camera. Some cameras are offering 12-bit internal RAW at fairly reasonable bitrates. Camera resolutions are going up Color science is improving in multiple brands Professional grading and editing software is more available and cheaper than ever You can learn how to professional grade your footage FREE to maximize the 10-bit / 12-bit color coming out of your camera. And that is perfectly valid way to shoot. And so you buy the camera that works best for you and gives you the best SOOC result. As things evolve you switch up your gear to get better results and an easier workflow. This is how technology works. Now you can get cameras that shoot seasoned SOOC colors that look decent in 10-bit. Many of your clients will probably own or WILL own a 10-bit HDR TV / monitor where the footage will shine and look good. Then take your 5K/6K/8K oversampling camera and put it in a 2K/4K mode with as high as a bit depth as you can get. Color your footage however you want. Hell, if you camera shoots 12-bit+ RAW. Then shoot that and then conform it to ARRI LOG-C and grade it just like an ARRI camera minus a few stops of dynamic range. You can do that now! So until ARRI releases a mirrorless camera with IBIS you won't be happy. I would say the other brands are coming up faster to reaching that point than you think. You just might have to accept that your 2-4K 10-bit plus footage will be oversampled from 8K or more.

Nikon Rumors has jumped in to the discussion with more posts coming. https://nikonrumors.com/2022/02/05/this-is-why-craig-quit-canonrumors.aspx/

You can have both.

Its that hypocrisy that gets me.

Techartpro has now released the TZG-01 AF Adapter for Contax G lenses on the Nikon z. https://techartpro.com/?product=techart-contax-g-to-nikon-z-autofocus-adapters-tzg-01 World's apart from the older sony AF adapter!! Really brings life into these old lenses again.

I don't have any information about what happened in this instance, but a very common behavioural pattern is where "bad faith actors" pursue a continued campaign of behaviour that gradually builds up pressure on someone and then that person explodes. The tricky part is that the campaign that pushed that person to explode will likely be a combination of: things done in public that are only very slightly over the line of acceptable behaviour and aren't "worthy" of making a serious complaint about because each on in isolation looks harmless things done in private that are definitely over the line but for various reasons are either inappropriate to share or where sharing them would come at a significant cost Perhaps a third factor in play here is directing (or not discouraging) other people from attacking the person as well. Kind of like being bullied by someones entire friendship group rather than that person on their own. So these things gradually build up over time, and the cumulative effects get under the skin of the target, and then they explode, and from the outside it looks completely inappropriate, like a huge over-reaction, and as it is a very emotional moment will probably not be expressed rationally or calmly. This explosion is the goal of the people doing the targeting and provides the perfect excuse for them to hold up their hands and say both "wow - where did that come from - I had nothing to do with that" and also "see - that person is crazy - you don't know how they've been treating me in private - this explains those times you saw me being mean to them". I've seen lots of people seriously damage their careers because of workplace bullying that plays out like this. It's very common. I get the impression that anyone with any public following has to learn to deal with this. YouTubers routinely talk about how they got big and then the hate started and that it took them a while to learn how to deal with it.

Sam O'Steen was a great collaborator of Roman Polanski. Mike Nichols too. A curious note, he is the man on bus in The Graduate.

Rumors are canon rumors is going to Spotify. (C1)

DJI

Xiaoyi

...and the Viltrox EF-M2 II (EF to M43)

Tamron (14-150mm f3.5-5.8 zoom)

I remember how pedantic the replies to your last trivia question got so I'm going to get an early bid in by saying Metabones.

Sigma

There's no cinema without competent editing and that's not an easy task... People tend to forget it when focus too much on camera specs ; ) Thanks for this thread : ) and heads up to everyone coming here ;- ) - EAG

Indeed, Walter Murch is a monument : ) Something I could immediately extract from his testimony, is the cut over the characters' movement -- I think it's one of his finest contributions, obviously, too little to define it: https://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/when-and-where-to-make-the-cut-inspired-by-walter-murchs-in-the-blink-of-an-eye/ https://www.studiobinder.com/blog/walter-murch-rule-of-six/ https://musicbed.com/blog/filmmaking/editing/editing-secrets-from-legendary-editor-walter-murch From a conversation with him: https://www.provideocoalition.com/aotc-murch-bcpc/ More around from: https://blog.filmsupply.com/articles/5-editing-lessons-from-walter-murch/47/ https://www.yoair.com/blog/editing-on-film-how-a-good-cut-creates-an-impactful-message/ And an interesting recent degree thesis about his famous rule of six. Some other important individual I got the chance to have her as one of my instructors at film school but personally in her case along his nice husband the legend John Bailey, is the Lawrence Kasdan and Spielberg's E.T. editor, Carol Littleton. Here's an interview and a free audiobook with her to whom loves her showpieces and cutting work: https://cinemontage.org/silent-revolutionary-carol-littleton/ https://www.audible.com/pd/An-Evening-with-Film-Editor-Carol-Littleton-Audiobook/B002V01IR6 Finally, a last contemporary bibliography reference, another woman and wife of Sam O'Steen (The Graduate, Rosemary's Baby, Chinatown and many others), also available at the Manhattan Edit Workshop BTW as much as the above-mentioned audiobook: https://www.bobbieosteen.com/2020/12/watch-my-panel-inside-the-cutting-room-of-sam-osteen/

Oh shit! Did they digitally crop for an artistic intent? Amateurs!

Yongnuo

Is it Laowa? Laowa have a couple of MFT lenses with electrical contacts to control aperture.

Going to have to have a Mac to do it but hey better than nothing. Could use a cheap Mac Mini M1.

we could of had both, except the manufacturers never got the memo 🙄

Well that's pretty poor. I don't use Facebook (other than occasionally Marketplace or something specific by a friend or family that I have been alerted to) but had to de-friend my own father a couple of years ago as he was such an internet troll/keyboard warrior. I have zero time for this kind of shit.

Thanks - excellent links and I'll definitely review them. I'm familiar with Walter Murch and have his book but didn't spot that playlist, which looks excellent. I've watched a number of his talks, but they seem to be around the same time and have the same content. Yes, definitely a great channel, and his series when editing the feature where he showed actual editing was great. It's hugely useful to watch someone actually doing the work, so you can see the effects and see what they're seeing, rather than just talking about stuff. The challenge I have is that my work isn't narrative, but travel, and Sven is very focused on that, which is very useful to others. I totally agree - it's very intangible. Both Walter Murch and Sven (ThisGuyEdits) describe the process as being very visceral - literally based on the feeling of your gut (viscera). Another thing I do is grab screenshots while I'm watching things on Netflix / Prime / etc as references for colour grading. I'm always trying to find a moment when the actor stops moving so I don't have motion blur in the frame. The reason I bring this up is that almost without fail, they cut just before that happens. I mean, I regularly stop the video on the first frame of the next shot, and can do that reliably even when I haven't seen the footage before. I don't really know what that means in editing terms, or even acting terms. Walter Murch mentioned a technique where he would be working on a cut and would skip back 5-10s, watch the sequence, and hit pause when he thought the cut should be - doing it by feel. He would take note of the frame number, then skip back and do it again. He would repeat this process until he was hitting the same exact frame reliably, and then he'd know that this frame was the right frame to make the cut. IIRC he said something like until he's able to hit the same frame reliably he hasn't understood the timing of the material yet, so the process is really an exploration and learning experience, with the reliability indicating that the learning has completed. The titular premise of Walters book "In The Blink of an Eye" is that we blink when we've finished a thought, and so you typically want to cut when the thought is finished, which is just before the blink. It could be that people tend to move while thought is occurring, and then pause when one thought ends and the next begins. This is probably linked to speech in some way, but I'm not sure how. Anyway, pulling apart the material like this is a great way to really study it in detail.

Netflix - and Amazon like that 4k (and in Amazon's case HDR) goodness. It doesn't matter if its not needed or if it doesn't add anything to the story, it makes people feel good about buying a 4k tv and having something in 4kHDR to watch. That adds to their subscriber base, keeps profits high and shareholders happy, and gets them to keep churning out content. Here in the US I can get a 65" 4k HDR tv for under $400, 1080p is dead at the retail level. Its crazy how fast that happened too, three or four years ago HDTV's were still a massive part of the mix. Now they're throwaway sets not even worthy of a live display at Best Buy or Walmart, just cheap aisle fillers. Netflix and Amazon know this better than anyone, and the Netflix approved camera list clearly reflects that. Chris

I don't think the camera plays an important part in the final look of a well produced movie or series. The camera is a tool and pros work around the limits of their tools. If 90% of the look was the camera, one DP would be as good as another one. And set design, dressing, color grading would all be nearly useless. There is a reason end credits last 5-10 minutes. Of course all this reverse in the case of the videomaker, a situation in which one person is responsible for everything. There the camera plays a great role.

Editing is a fascinating but smokey art. It seams to slowly blow away when you try to talk about it, a bit as waking up and trying to remember your dream, imho. I don't know how much it is repeatable. I always felt that I haven't studied enough of it. Your idea of detecting cuts with Resolve is great! I am on a video editing FB group in Italy. Not once editing is talked about. Just usual Mac/PC, GPUs, Premiere problems, which NLE to choose, how to deliver to some TV, etc.

Here was my impressions of the R6 after a day of using it. Admittedly, a lot of FW has come out since then so it's possible the overheating issue isn't as bad as when I wrote that post. The crop is pretty annoying for real estate, so FF would be a nice change, but I've heard that Canon's IBIS is not good at all with wide lenses and possibly not even good on a gimbal as well with wide lenses so there's that. I haven't tested or seen this first hand. Maybe renting the R6 prior to deciding would be a good idea, I'd assume a 3 or 7 day rental of the R6 wouldn't be too expensive.

I might get a lot of hate here for saying this....but he came across as a complete prick to me and I personally will not miss him one bit; I will miss the rumors site and information itself but his behavior towards me IMO was not much better than the behavior he is saying he received from others. When the Canon R5 overheating fiasco happened I was the first one on that site to really tell it like it was. I wasted many hours getting into endless debates with the Canon fanboys on that site who swore the overheating wasn't a big deal and wouldn't affect the camera's useability. I kept everything respectful, simply stated my opinion and basically said the camera would be completely useless for even light professional work (which turned out to be right in a big way), and Craig banned me for it and labelled my account a troll. Incidentally, getting banned from there helped me discover this site so for me it all turned out fine. Craig made it clear that on his site any post that wasn't worshipping at the feet of all things Canon would get the user banned; not even a warning.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Such a good song and video clip. The time backwards and forwards reminds me of this:

Here for some first impressions (I did not posses the A7iiI, some things might be familiar to you that are new to me). I can’t say anything substantial about the IQ just yet. But I’d like to share what I think about the overall handling in comparison. First of all, the package does not look like a Japanese gift at all, more like for a north korean showel. Strange for a product of this price. Maybe it is due to environmental considerations, but there was no label or explanation of sort. Weight and size: All seems more balanced, smaller and lighter than the nikon z6, although that might not be the case. The body gives a kind of hollow impression, which is not unpleasant. The feel of the buttons and dials: Cheapo. All feels like plastic parts from an 3D printer were stitched together afterwards without fitting to 100%. All dials and buttons give you a sort of resistance like they don’t want to be used. No comparison to the refined feel of superior material of an Z6 or the NX1. EVF is okay, but you always have to hit the center with your eye, otherwise it gets unsharp very quickly to the sides (like on the gx80). I tend to press my eye bone to the frame of the evf all the time, in order to get it right, and that starts to hurt after some time. LCD screen ist okay, but certainly not as brilliant as the one from the NX1 and it’s smaller than the Z6’s. It has a huge bezel, so why in the world is it not possible to make the screen a bit bigger as 3’’ ?. A digital camera is an optical tool in the end, and this one competes with smartphones to a certain extend, which offer a brilliant bright screen twice as big as the Sony A7IV’s one. It think, it is all a bit outdated, and it is a prospect of things to come. Maybe, it was not the best idea to design digital DSLRs on the basis of its analogue predecessors from the 60ties at all, which sported no LCD obviously. Maybe future cameras will have to look different. Menu is good, I had no problems with the one from A7 mark I though, but it is definitely a revelation compared to the classic NEX menus. Focus peaking implementation is great, you can switch it on and off easily and when it’s on, it doesn’t intrude too much in the picture (like it does on the z6). Button and dial assignment is straightforward as well, it’s a quick and easy affair. A great feature is that you can use the lcd screen as a touchpad for focusing while looking through the EVF. It works not as snappy as on the gx80, but it is definitely usable. In terms of heat, I can’t say anything, ( I shot 1 short piece outside without any problems) yet, but I noticed that the camera gets noticeably hot while charging the battery.

Oh yes. I'd forgotten about that. Crazy fanboy lunatics. I had daily anonymous threats via my contact form with fake email addresses. Found the guy by looking up his IP address and comparing it to previous website use where he'd used his name and email. I think the reason I forgot about the Canon fanboys was because most of all I remember the Philip Bloom defenders coming after me in their hundreds.

Interesting hard work, Kye : ) At the film school following a full-time three years program on editing plus a year of internship, we had basically two bibles : Edward Dmytryk Walter Murch (on YT) The invisible editing mannered by the neorealism towards the synthetic contribution to the current contemporary forms seen today, comes essentially along the pioneering effort and findings from three fathers of all this I vividly recommend ; ) Lev Kuleshov Sergei Eisenstein Dziga Vertov

Certainly came out of the blue, did this from Craig. I wish him all the best. Sounds like he needs a break like me. If he sold the site to a good home, and took a good pay cheque from it I hope he can build something fresh and new out of that and use the money to take a good photographic adventure. Social media brings out the worst instincts in human beings. Tribal behaviours. Epidemic misinformation and lies. I didn't see what has been going on with Craig, but he seems to have completely deleted his Twitter and closed up shop there. The internet is fucked. Facebook can go out of business as far as I'm concerned, and they've ruined Instagram / WhatsApp too, so they can go in the bin along with the whole Meta group. Fuck VR as well. Nobody wants this shit. It's a distraction at best, at worst it can takes lives or destroys democratic political system. Facebook and social media has sucked so much life out of my own business - this forum would be busier too, if it weren't for the distraction of Facebook groups and Twitter. Thankfully $200 billion shaved off FB's share price this week so couldn't happen to a nicer company. I haven't always seen eye to eye with any of the rumours sites. But I genuinely do wish Craig well in what he does next

Sadly, my Olympus E-P7 had to go back for repair due to some IBIS problems. I couldn't take a photo at anything under 1/15s. This was unacceptable as I could do it no problem without IBIS, hence the faulty IBIS system. They assured me it was a one-off problem and wanted to replace my black and silver one with a white one (no available spare parts an no black and silver ones left). I refused. In the end, they gave me the E-M5 iii which is also a very capable small camera. I will have to say they treated me VERY well and made EVERY effort to make me happy. I will be taking my business to them for the foreseeable future. I don't know what Olympus was like before OMDS, but I cannot imagine a drop-off in after sales service. Kudos to them. I never really had a chance to get super cinematic video from the E-P7, but I can assure you, in the right hands, it's decent. With normally great IBIS and the ability to change the saturation of 12 individual colors, this tool seems like a creative in-camera powerhouse- and at only 337g. I'm eagerly waiting to see what's to come from the OMDS engineering team as they have a real opportunity to make gains with many content creators as they don't have other products lines to protect. Some day, I'll get another E-P7.

I don't think it was ever a test, other than for walking around vlogging! The only really valid tests are the one's that are at least close to your own intended use. It's pure entertainment. If you like his particular form of entertainment... His 'process' (because there is a semi-serious side to it), is in finding the perfect vlogging camera for his needs...which is in order to create content for his channels, so by it's nature, will be never ending. It's become a self-perpetuating thing now. But as a serious educator? He's about as far from being one as most YouTubers are, but having 10's of thousands of followers does make you some kind of guru these days, even if that info is often conflicted. Or just wrong! It's amusing in small doses, sometimes, but as you say, gets a bit tedious after a while. As with most things, you can always take away a positive and in these types of cases, it's often NOT how to do something. And that in itself is a positive takeaway! Who is imparting the information is as important as the information itself.

Roger, it is even more complex, for example see this CML discussion about perceived discussion, different DPs, different opinions: https://www.cinematography.net/edited-pages/percieved-sharpness.htm

Agreed. They nailed it with that camera. The electronic EF mount works really well. I really really wish it did internal ProRes. I wouldn’t have sold mine.

Unfortunately I don't share your thought that everyone knows this. I've seen many conversations in the past, both here and elsewhere, saying that digital stabilisation / EIS will make IBIS and OIS obsolete. Perhaps it will, in action camera products, but not if you want to maintain a 180 shutter, as I would imagine the majority of people who shoot 8K RAW would be interested in doing. An additional factor that comes into play is the general lack of understanding about how these things actually work. Of course, we can't expect everyone who uses a product to understand how it works - none of us could ever use a computer ever again as they're now hundreds of times more complex than any person could ever understand - but knowledge is power and there are consequences to people not understanding some of these things. A lack of understanding about ISO limitations might cause someone to suggest that they can darken an image with aperture to get a deeper DoF and simply compensate by raising ISO. This is true but if their understanding of ISO is that "higher = brighter" then they're going to risk ruining an entire shoot because they didn't understand the limitation of the technology. Same with digital stabilisation. It does have a stabilising effect, just like raising ISO has a brightening effect, but it's not the same as IBIS or OIS, in the same way that raising ISO isn't the same as turning your lights up. Any time a conversation begins with a faulty understanding of reality, the danger is that it goes in strange directions that are misleading and outright wrong. There were many references in this thread to digital stabilisation being a substitute (or even an upgrade) for IBIS. Anyone who knows that OIS and IBIS are similar (which they are) might conclude from these comments that digital stabilisation can be a good substitute for IBIS and OIS. The fact that the tests presented included OIS and this was basically ignored in pages of discussion is misleading at best. There is something magical about ARRI colour. It is magical in both its RAW form and in the Prores files from it too. It is expensive though. There is magic from the older BM cameras (OG BMPCC and BMMCC) but in many ways these cameras are a PITA to use, and also limited to 1080p, which for many isn't enough. There is magic in the ML RAW files too, even when graded with a simple LUT. However, there wasn't magic in the compressed files. A couple of people have expressed that the compressed files from the latest Canon cameras have "clay" like skin-tones. Now, we know from the 5D3 that the RAW was great (thanks to ML) but the compressed files weren't, so we can deduct that the compression that Canon employ removes some of the image quality. My impression of ML RAW through Youtube compression was that it has this magic, but that normal Canon footage from the Canon you tubers does not. I then make the assumption that the lack of magic in the current Canon cameras is from the compression and image processing, rather than assuming their sensors have gotten worse since the 5D days. Maybe this is a faulty assumption, but I suspect not. In my experience heavy NR and compressed LOG profiles are generally what result in clay-like skin- tones. That leads to the idea that if you want to get great skintones from something like the R5C then you have to shoot RAW. No problems so far, good stuff, but it gives you a choice. You either shoot the full 8K RAW with the large file sizes, or you crop into the sensor which you'd have to compensate for in lens choices and more noise etc, or you shoot compressed codecs and lose the magic that is very likely to be present in the RAW. One way around that is to use an external monitor to get RAW out of the camera but compress it to Prores, which can (as ARRI and BM have shown) retain the magic within skin tones. That's it. That's the logic. My thoughts on the wider topic are this: Cameras are giving us more and more pixels, but less and less magic. In 2012 Canon released the 5D3, which had a sensor that captured magic (when paired with a hack). Also in 2012 BM gave us a quirky sub-$1000 camera with a magical image, but the magic was also in the compressed files. Now, a decade later, we have cameras that cost 3x, 4x, 5x, or more, the price of the OG BMPCC, but there is no magic. We have 16x the number of pixels in the image, but no magic. We have 120p, 180p, 240p, but no magic. Worse still, manufacturers have managed to brainwash us to not even expect magic. The entire point of cameras is to make people feel something. Images should be emotive. Colour is a great way to do that because it's subject agnostic. A CEO giving a quarterly update will have a substantially different effect on people emotionally if their skin looks radiant rather than pallid. This is something that matters. Sure Canon RAW might be similar to ARRI RAW, but (as you say) ARRI RAW gets professionally graded and Canon RAW doesn't. This is all the more reason for the compressed files to look just as great as the RAW. BM gave us this in 2012, after all. In this sense, cameras have gotten harder to get good colour out of instead of easier. But this gets us into the crux of the matter, which is GAS. If you're happy with what you have you stop looking at what else you can buy. If Canon implemented Prores and a colour pipeline that could keep the magic in the files, perhaps requiring a LUT to be applied in post, then people would be happy and not looking to upgrade. Lots of people who own a 4K RAW camera that they're not completely satisfied with would probably be interested in an 8K RAW camera. Almost no-one who owned a 4K RAW camera that made wonderful images would be interested in that same 8K RAW camera. The manufacturers are in the business of keeping you happy enough to buy but unhappy enough to upgrade as soon as you can. What do I own? I own a GH5 with manual and vintage lenses. I shoot handheld in available light in a verite style with no directing and no retakes. The IBIS and internal 200Mbps 1080p 10-bit ALL-I codec create a nice image that's easy to work with. I tested the 5K, 4K and 1080p modes with my sharpest lenses stopped down and the difference in resolution and sharpness was small and so the benefits the 1080p ALL-I files have in the rest of my post-production workflow outweighs that slight IQ bump. I am not happy with the colour science / DR of the GH5, and this is one of the weaknesses I hope the GH6 fixes. I am also not happy with the low-light performance of the GH5, which I also hope the GH6 will rectify. I own a GX85 and GF3 for pocketable fun projects. These are paired with vintage, manual, or lenses like the 12-35/2.8 and the 12-60/2.8-4 that I plan to get to replace the 12-35. I own the BMMCC, which I bought as a reference for its magical image and colour science. I have done dozens of comparisons with it and the GH5 trying to emulate the colour of the BMMCC with the GH5. I haven't gotten perfect results, but I have learned a lot and still have much to learn. Being able to do side-by-side tests is the only real way to compare two cameras if you plan on really learning about how each of them works and how to get the best of both. In theory the 10-bit from the GH5 should be bendable to the colour science (but not the DR) from the BMMCC, but I'm yet to really nail it. I own the OG BMPCC, which I bought as a small (pocketable!) cinema camera to use for fun projects. Turns out the screen isn't visible with my polarised sunglasses (a terrible design decision) and isn't really visible in bright conditions anyway, requiring an external monitor, and negating the point of the camera over the BMMCC. The GX85 was the replacement for this and I'm just yet to sell it. What do I recommend? I recommend people point their cameras at interesting stuff. Assuming they're already doing that, I recommend that they study and increase their skills in story-telling, directing, lighting and production design, composition, editing, colour grading, music and sound design and all the creative aspects of film-making that are relevant to what they do and the roles they play. I recommend people practice and get as much experience with things. So many people on social media ask questions that they could answer themselves. So many more people on social media endlessly parrot things that "everyone knows" but are actually outright bullshit. I've lost count of the number of times I've read something, questioned it, done a test myself in an hour or two, and realised that this "common wisdom" is actually just flat-out wrong. I recommend that if a problem can't be solved by learning more or working around it (one of the reasons to practice and try things yourself) I recommend that people spend money on basically everything except their camera. Lighting, modifiers, grip, supports, audio, and lenses are far better upgrades than cameras, most of the time at least. In terms of cameras, which I know was what your question was actually about, I recommend that people truly understand their needs. Everyone wants the perfect camera and there isn't one and there never will be one. This means that in order to get the camera with the fewest compromises you have to work out what your priorities are, then starting at the bottom start removing them until you're left with a list of just your top priorities that can be met by a camera. I would suggest that existing lenses and other ecosystem factors would probably be high on this list for most people. My philosophy is that you miss all the shots you don't take, so priority #1 is getting a setup that you can use. Fast primes might be great, but if you film in the remote wilderness and can't carry the gear there then it's game over, pack lighter. If you need to shoot fast then primes won't work either - ENG cameras had long zooms for this reason. Would ENG footage have looked nicer if they could have gotten blurrier backgrounds or if there was better low-light performance? Sure. But primes were never going to work, and a lens that weighed 20kg/44lb was never going to work either. Priority #2 is having the equipment allow you to get the best content in your shots. For me size is a factor here. I regularly shoot in private places (like museums or art galleries etc) where professional cameras aren't allowed. I could afford a medium-sized cinema camera but I'd get kicked out of those places in a heartbeat. I also appreciate not hassling people around me with a large camera, and I don't appreciate the unwanted attention that it brings. For me, a GH5, lens, shotgun mic and wrist-strap is about as large as I'm willing to go. Priority #3 is having the nicest images come from the camera. This is why I use vintage and manual prime lenses. I want my images to look as cinematic as possible. Not because it's cool, but because it suits the subject matter and aesthetic of what I shoot and the effect I want them to have on my audience. It also makes me happy to shoot, and it's pretty obvious that I enjoy the technical aspects of it as well, so this is part of the experience for me. I prefer the look of a vintage lens with IBIS rather than a modern lens with OIS. I like the lack of clinical sharpness that vintage and manual lenses give me, because, once again, this suits my target aesthetic. This forum spends lots of time talking about this level - the image from the camera. It spends less time talking about the practicalities that are associated with those choices (priority #2) and even less time talking about Priority #1. Worse still, we spend basically zero time discussing aesthetic, which is what the whole imaging system is designed around. It's just assumed that more resolution is better and sharper lenses are better, etc. I have the distinct impression that the people here who could actually talk about their aesthetic, what the emotional experience of that aesthetic is designed to be, and how their equipment and process is designed to maximise this.

How do you do run and gun without IBIS? You know.. I’ve come on here for years and listened to Andrew ask for the one thing that would have made Canon a champ all these years - all we wanted was a decent upgrade to the 5D Mark II - a perfect hybrid camera video shooter. All those years ago, Canon saw the potential when Hollywood was actually utilizing 5D Mark IIs on set. But rather than capitalizing on this moment and continue to create consumer-grade products that were so good - they could be used in Hollywood, Canon instead went the other direction - chose to “monetize” those Hollywood customers with Cinema EOS - purpose -built products specific for video, and much more expensive too! In 12 long years Canon failed to recognize the need for a consumer-grade hybrid - a proper update to the 5D Mark II. Today - More than ever before - photographers are becoming videographers - it’s just the nature of the business. People still take photos, but people want video. In those last 12 years, Canon has only released two more products that are as “perfect” as the 5D Mark II as a hybrid shooter - the 1DC and the 1DX Mark III. Every other product Canon has released has had some sort of diminishing return - what we call “the cripple hammer”. But that cripple hammer is mostly thanks to Cinema EOS, and the mental gymnastics Canon continues to take their customers through in order to “protect” this Cinema market. Yet I haven’t heard of any of those “Hollywood” customers purchasing Cinema EOS products - I certainly don’t see them at the top of the sales charts. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure ARRI and RED are more popular at the Hollywood level? So then why the need for Cinema EOS? To me it’s just a ploy from Canon to force you into buying one product for video and one product for stills. Knowing this past history I went into this R5C announcement with expectations that IBIS would likely be missing - looks like I was right. Without IBIS I just don’t know who this camera is aimed for. In hindsight I guess we should’ve seen this a mile away. We have the C70 and the R5 - had Canon made a “perfect” solution then why would anyone buy the C70 or R5 moving forward? And so perhaps the issue is that Canon has too many products with no focus? It’s no wonder that they’re losing money. Why do consumers always have to trade off with Canon in this manner? Especially when no one has to trade off when it comes to Sony or NIkon. My current camera is a 5D Mark III. I haven’t upgraded not because of cost but because Canon refuses to release a perfect camera. And if I’m spending $10K on the camera, lens, batteries, battery grip, adapters and CFExpress cards - all required for the R5C - then we must demand perfection. Perhaps the R5 Mark II will be the true spiritual successor to the 5D Mark II? Would certainly make sense? But how many more years do I have to wait? And what features will continue to be omitted as part of a stupid effort to keep Cinema EOS “protected”?

@Hannes Famira Afaik, with the 444 RGB upgrade the F3 spits out 10 bit 444, with choice for either Slog (1:) or Rec709, so no linear 12bit+. High quality 10bit Log with a sufficient codec equals or betters 12bit linear Raw, if I got Alister Chapman right, who has done tests with the FS700 and FS7 regarding that. You can read it on his website. I found one source, stating for 12bit output but that's one vs a majority ofsources. 444 does not for higher framerates than 24p I think, for sure not higher than 30p. You need a recorder like Pix, Odyssey or Cinedeck for 444. Blackmagic does 422 though. With the 444 RGB upgrade one can record up to 60p in 10bit 422 to a 3G Blackmagic VA and the other recorders as well. People have stated the 422 material is very good.

With the external Pix recorder, (like the one above) and the 444 model, it possible to record 12 bit 444 ProRes files. I’m not sure if this works in 60p though. Honestly though, the color depth on the F3 is fantastic. I was always super impressed with the 10 bit ProRes files.

I got less time on S35 in 4K50P than FF 4K50p (20min vs 30min), FF 4K50p/60p is not oversampled. 4K Screengrab from R5, I think i can just grab stills from video.. much easier this way., rolling shutter is quite acceptable on R5.

Ok, so I couldn't just keep sitting here thinking the R6 might work for what I need and the C70 was overkill so I came up with the perfect plan that ended up with me owning an R6. I have the C70 on pre-order but it won't ship until Nov. The R6 was available at a local retailer and the retailer lets you return the R6 for up to 30 days after purchase with a 15% restocking fee. So this sounds perfect to me, I get to "rent" the R6 for a fraction of the price of a normal rental house for 29 days which gives me time to cancel my C70 pre-order if the R6 is perfect for my needs, or I can take it back before the 30 days is up and still be on the list for the C70. Anyway, I've now had it less than 4 hours and there are already some things I don't like about it that I thought I would be able to live with, and some other surprises that no one on YouTube mentioned Overheating - yes it really is a thing. It was 78F today and the remaining available time on the timer hovered around the 10min mark for most of the day. I was doing a lot in the menus, taking a few images, and shooting a few clips and had had it set to CLOG and 4K60FPS which is my normal shooting setup on the GH5. I never hit the overheating limit but staring at the timer completely ruined the shooting experience for me. I can't imagine being on a paid shoot and all I can think about is if it will overheat. It shipped with FW version 1.1.0 and I upgraded it to version 1.1.1 after shooting during the day so I will test some more over the weekend to see if it gets any better. For everything I liked about the camera, the overheating was just this huge problem that overshadowed the whole experience. Electronic Level - I am a bit of a fanatic about having a perfectly level horizon so I didn't think anything of it when the electronic level came on in video mode as expected. What I truly can't understand however is why it turns off when you start recording. This completely blew my mind.....while recording is the main time I need to know if it is staying level. Also, a lot of other useful information leaves the screen as well. I like to verify right after pressing the record button that all of the settings are set properly....well a lot of them disappear from the screen while recording, things like frame rate, color space, etc...things I like to glance at while recording in live view. XLR Audio - I tried to tell myself this wasn't that big of a deal but I literally have a weekend of shoots lined up and all of them require audio. I'm already trying to think how I will handle it for the weekend. With the GH5 I just throw on the adapter, put a wireless lav on the client and we are set. Editing - Just like everyone else stated, editing these files are a nightmare. You will need to transcode. I have a 14 core CPU, RTX2080Ti video card, Davinci Resolve Studio, and NVME storage....doesn't matter, DR couldn't play the files until I created proxies. Dedicated Buttons - I found myself really missing the dedicated ISO button from my 5DIV and especially the MF switch on the lens. I know you can remap buttons but I don't like doing that, I like to keep everything default and use the Favorites menu. I also miss the flip switch that immediately got you into video mode or photo mode on the 5DIV instead of rotating the dial past all of the other presets that I'll never use. Build Quality - The build quality is also lower than I expected. I expected it to be on par with the GH5.......its not, let alone the 5DIV. For the price I paid the build quality is a disappointment. The video image quality does look amazing, I'm sure I didn't expose properly and I didn't have a Canon CLOG to REC709 LUT so I did some quick hand grading; oh and I had the crappy RF 24-105 F4-F7.1 kit lens, but what came out of the camera despite all of this was nothing short of incredible. I also took some quick images with it and of course they were what I expected from a 1DX sensor, so no complaints there. Speaking of photography that side of the house is rock solid. No complaints there, and thanks to this camera I am finally sold on using an EVF for photography. The EOS R had noticeable lag when panning and just didn't look right to me; the R6's EVF had no noticeable lag and felt a lot more natural. I truly do not know what I will do yet, I can say without hesitation that with my very limited testing the R6's video quality blows the GH5 out of the water....but there's so many compromises in so many other areas especially with the overheating that I don't know if it is worth it. Lets not even talk about the fact that it does not do dual slot video recording and still has a 30min recording limit. It also seems like even after all of the discussions about overheating I still don't understand....from a cold start the R6 only shows 15min of recording time for 4K60FPS. I did test it and the overheat warning came on at 20min but it kept going until it hit the 30min mark. After turning it back on it refused to let me start recording again and did not return to 15min available until about an hr later.

Below is a short excerpt from his post but this is not surprising as so much goes on behind the scenes that most don’t know about. https://www.canonrumors.com/thats-all-folks-for-me-anyway-canon-rumors-will-live-on/ This has sort of been in the works for about the last year or so. I haven’t had much fun with this site over the last 2 or 3 years, a new demographic of people have exhausted me. I think a lot of this change started with the proliferation of YouTube personalities over the last 5 years. Nothing is about information anymore, it’s only about whose saying it. This is true for all forms of media and I really don’t want to be a part of it. However, yesterday they came at my children and my wife. They came at my family….. little fanboys of certain YouTubers that have obviously been raised horribly. What was in my inbox I won’t even show my wife. I’m tearing up writing this with absolute disgust for how horrible people are becoming. All of this is created by the personalities (I refuse to call them creators), they feed off of it, they profit off of it and they don’t care