Leaderboard

I’ll only buy a new Panasonic camera if I can get continuous AF with my Helios 44M. Everything else is for amateurs.

I recently rebought the Panasonic 14mm f/2.5 which was the first native wide angle prime I ever bought back in my GH1 days. This is from a lighting test but I like how it looks, so here you go. This is shot wide open on the G9 in 4K, CineV. Graded with FilmConvert Nitrate (Fuji Astia 100).

This has been out a while now and, whilst its going to be everyone's cup of tea, I think its really interesting. It only works with the R5/R5c and utilises the 8K sensor to give a little bit under 4K per eye with a 180 degree field of view after stitching. I think 180 degree and 3D is the sweet spot for me as 360 degree is great for overcapture/re-framing but just for straight up filmmaking 360 degree throws up too many challenges. Forget about 3D TVs to watch it on, this is all about headsets and for the mass market that is the Oculus Quest 2. If do you have a Quest 2 etc then I'd certainly suggest firing up its YouTube VR app and go and look at the early content . In the spirit of camera tests, Canon themselves have done one with cats. And a wedding ! As I say, this isn't going to float everyone's boat - least of all for narrative - but I definitely think its got legs for documentary/travel/events etc where you are getting a simple workflow to create 3D VR180 at high quality with all the image frills like C-LOG, RAW etc and it has a rear mounted filter holder for ND. The lens costs €1800 (or €900 per lens if you want to feel less bad about it !) which, even if you do have the R5/R5c already, isn't something you would be wanting to buy just to have a play about with but if you have an interest in the type of content it can be used for then it is something to consider.

So you may have see that Olympus latest M4/3 camera the OM-D EM1 iii (I'm not sure I could come up with a worse name as a joke) has "1053 phase-detect Cross Quad Pixel AF". I feel this is going to be the make or break generation for Panasonic. I recently bought a b-cam for the S1H and went for a Sony, not a Panasonic S5, due to the AF alone. In the latest Sony bodies it is nigh-on flawless for interviews, you can leave it on its own, wide open and it doesn't miss a beat. On the S1H i pull it myself, and the massive HDMI delay means I have to use the tiny screen to do it. Rumours for GH6 say it still uses DFD autofocus, now adding "AI" to the end of it and claiming this works five-times better. Which I assume means a future S body will also have some variation of DFD too... I'm waiting to see what happens, but don't have too much hope. If it isn't as good as Sony's I don't think I'll stay in the system regardless of Panasonic's superior colour and DR. I do know the mantra "pros don't use AF" but that's just untrue in the real world, it's typical forum dogma. Pro does not just mean "working with a massive crew for a cinema film or Netflix", it means making a living from moving image making. Not everyone has a focus puller, most people don't. Professional crews are smaller these days, and AF is really useful in more circumstances than not and thus translates to sales, which translates to camera being supported, updated and made in the first place. I'm not just speaking for myself when I say AF is going to end up making me pick an inferior image quality for more convenience, it's all over the Panasonic groups too, loads of people jumping to second hand A7S3. As much as one can worry about cameras, I worry that Panasonic will stick rigidly to their contrast AF, pretending as they do that it is usable for video or even in the same league as their competitors... I get it, it allows the sensor to remain unadulterated, but as it stands it just... doesn't work. I'd love to be proven wrong but... I think I'm out of faith. I just think it's such a weird hill to die on. We know the other system works. Why persist with trying to fix something broken, when you could switch to a system that performs said function properly?

Seems to me it IS a "wow" camera but only for a couple of specific groups of people. For SOME already high end m43 users, it might be and for adventurers who travel to remote locations off the beaten track in all weather for wildlife it might be just the ticket. For me it is just a nice m43 camera that I am unlikely to ever buy but i hope it does sell well.

I've got the lens, but just received it last week so haven't had time to edit anything from it yet. A few notes: - the lens is much smaller than I first thought it would be. I take this as a plus as it's very easy to bring with me. - the R5 firmware actually has quite a lot of features specifically for this lens. You get the framing for each eye, and instead of a box, it's rounded, accounting for the fisheyedness. When you zoom in you'll zoom in on a single eye and use the "Info" button to switch between the eyes. The eyes are also labeled "R" and "L" on the screen, with R being to the left and L to the right because of how lenses flips everything. - the manual focus is smooth and seems quite easy to work with with the manual focus assist. Some zooming in to make sure it hits is of course still useful - because of the bulging front elements, it feels like it's very easy to scratch the lens. I never use lens caps for my lenses (just permanent lens hoods), but with this lens I am hesitant to let anyone else touch it without the lens cap on as I feel it's a gamble if it will be handed back to me without fingerprints on the lens. If anyone has any specific questions/things I should test with it, feel free to let me know

After using the Sony A7S3 in one occasion, I quickly realized how reliable and convenient modern AF systems have become. It makes me question why I have decided to stick with my FS7 and not upgrade to a A7S3 or FX3 (well, because I have no budget😆). The new AF system just saves so much time. Why Panasonic still doesn't offer a good AF system is beyond me. Almost always the improvements on the AF system are for stills. For stills, that system is great. Very accurate and fast. Somehow the AF for video mode is just bad, and in my experience, worse than even some older contrast detection AF systems. I suspect the problem is not entirely the DFD system. Panasonic cameras are always very close to a perfect camera. IMO, they just have to fix the AF system, and they can easily out sale other brands.

The best thing that could happen for LUMIX would be DJI taking the 4D’s AF tech, (LiDar tracking, wireless controller with focus waveform,) and pairing it with a universal focus motor. If I could bolt that tech onto any lens, map a quick profile, and have flawless AF/powerful MF tools in a wireless package… on any camera… I’d pay top dollar. And I’d stick with Panny forever.

I think you'll find that the new camera is the OM Systems Olympus OM-1 and the camera name you have quoted is a couple of years old, but otherwise, yes, Panasonic are probably doomed unless they sort the AF out. I'm not part of the tin foil hat brigade but the few individuals who do have their heads screwed on, don't make up enough of any market to really influence it. The simple reality is Panasonic have a fundamental marketing problem that comprises 2 parts: Part A is that their 'ambassadors' seem to be jumping ship in recent times, mostly I presume as they individually wish to move to other camera systems. Part A2 is that none of them are trendy YouTube influencers. Part A3 is that they do not allow comments on any of their official channels, ie, kill any kind of community, so all 'community' is unofficial channels such as Facebook groups and a handful of YouTubers. Part B is the AF tracking issue. It doesn't matter whether it's real or not real or it's adequate in some instances or total shit in all, it's a HUGE reputation/marketing issue directly affecting sales. And before anyone says, "how do you know it's affecting sales?" Because it's fucking obvious to anyone who has even the slightest understanding of how business works! The bottom line is it may already be too late and it's just a question on time now, but the issue isn't contrast vs phase IMO, but simply one of whether it works or not that is the issue. I don't care if the next gen is DFD, providing the AI bit does what they claim. And what they claim is slightly vague... 5x faster. 5x faster than what? I don't know if they even said 'faster' but they have stated it's 5x something along those lines and implying they have something they are confident in. I hope so anyway, because I'm also a S1H/S5 user for video (and S1R for stills) and really don't want to have to move to another system for a whole load of reasons. And am not as things stand, at least for this year, but at some point, new kit will happen because I'm a business user and what I have will not work forever. Let's see what the GH6 is first and go from there...

This camera far exceeds my video and photographic needs right now and looks like a great addition to M43. I'm curious to see what real-world footage looks like. Is it really that much better than what we currently have (which I think is great)? I'm just happy to have another great option for all the small M43 lenses out there. I'll probably get this camera, but wait for a heavy promo.

The GH5 has "HLG" but it turns out that HLG isn't a standard, it's more like a concept. Rec2020 and rec2100 are standards, but unfortunately the GH5 HLG isn't either of them (I tested it myself). I use rec2100 in Resolve and it does a pretty good job, but having HLG isn't worth nearly as much as it actually being a standard.

@herein2020 I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Even if right now Canon only has FF RF lenses, I am pretty sure they will soon develop S35 cine glass as they are phasing out EF mount in favor of RF. Besides you already have a growing list of third-party S35 cine lenses in RF mount: https://filmdaft.com/rf-mount-lenses-cinema-list/ The BIG attraction of the RF mount is also that it opens up all types of lens adaptation choices, not just EF, and with speed boosting it gives you the FF FoV option. It's best of both worlds. Especially if you compare the C70 to its biggest competitor FX6 that can only do FF 4K. Another big plus of the C70's S35 sensor is it is the DGO sensor from the $11K C300 mk2, whereas the FX6 FF sensor is the same as the $3.5K A7S3. A FF "C50" could be in the works but would probably utilize the FF sensor from R5/R6/R3. Of which you'll never get the DR benefits of the DGO sensor. And if Canon develop a FF DGO sensor, you can be certain that will be for a flagship C500 mk3, not an entry-level C50. With Canon RAW coming to the C70 I wouldn't hesitate to upgrade to it from C200. I loved the C200 body & build-quality but the 8-bit compressed mp4 IQ was pretty awful and CRL files not compressed enough. Result was it gathered dust while I always favored FS7, BMD Raw or 10-bit mirrorless bodies. C70 just seems to me like the perfect compromise with a chunky compact DSLR form-factor but with ND's, I/Os on the body, RF mount with speed booster, CRL LT option, affordable SD media with 10-bit proxies on RAW and the mighty DGO sensor. The FX6 is also very tempting despite the $6K price tag for alpha line sensor and no 4K S35 mode.

Real-world review from a brand ambassador... No doubt more to come. There's chapter markers to get to the video bits - Chris does lots of stills so they're featured prominently too.

That’s IP666

Almost all OM System videos are people on the outdoors, covered in snow to the waist, shooting under monsoons, base jumping inside an active volcano...their intended demographic for this camera is well defined. (the last one is a joke, IP53 is not rated for volcano swimming)

I will be the first to admit that I am a dynamic range junkie. I can't get enough of it. (Hence, why I went from Sony aps-c to Panasonic Full Frame). I am really, really looking forward to seeing some / any dynamic range and low light video tests. In particular, what the 4K 60p DR and Latitude is going to be like. Having said that, I will probably just end up buying an a7 IV ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Thanks for the elaboration. I'm a bit confused here (nothing new, really). So in the GH5, if you shoot in HLG, you usually use a CST with Rec2100 to 709 transform? Or you are setting the color space in Resolve to rec2100 in settings and then output color space to 709? I guess part of my confusion was that I thought HLG WAS a standard, but it was limited to certain TVs. Is that not the case? I guess I thought this because I thought I remember saying that you could use HLG and then just plug the SD card in to some of their TVs and watch things in HDR easily. So is HLG more like a "knock off" of something like rec2020 / rec2100???

Yeah that's right! Upcoming videos on vinyl mastering and another little surprise one too! Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed radiophonic, that was quite a long day that one 🤣 Cheers, I was using the ZV E10 a bit on a Zhiyun Crane M3 on this day, I didn't quite get it yet, I'm a bit wobbly, but getting the hang of it. But yeah in order to use a manual focus cam on gimbal you need a wireless follow focus etc, takes forever to set up blah blah... this is way easier. You just get the shot!

Good job @jgharding I decided just a couple of days ago to bump up my ZV1 to gimbal duty for those occasions when I need reliable AF. Matching it to the S1H and S5 will be even harder I suspect, but it’s currently my best and only option so… I tried the S5 with small/light lens in the Crane M3 but it was pushing the limit really…not that I really know much (anything) about gimbals, but the ZV1 is a much better fit. And the results are always in focus which means I don’t wish to smash it to bits.

I don’t think simply fixing the AF situation alone would be enough. It would be a start, but then needs some shouting about as a brand/system. My fingers are crossed, but I’m not holding my breath. The ‘savior’ of the DFD could be computing power from what I understand…but that’s not something I know too much about. GH6 will be an indicator.

Is that Abbey Road mastering? I very much enjoyed the Radiophonic Recordings one that you did recently so look forward to seeing this too if its on SOS at some point ?

yeah that's what i mean. the CUSP of perfection... on AF system away from it.

Here's a first pass at matching up the ZV E10 and S1H, it's not perfect with the shirt and a slight tonal difference, but getting there, definitely will be close enough once I have it finalised, so I'm pretty happy. It didn't miss focus for the whole shoot. Which is more than can be said for me. The rolling shutter is so bad though that if someone sways back and forth their head bends HAHAHA But in general it's great, so if sony ever release a new APSC sensor cam with faster readout I'll likely upgrade to that. Or possible an A7S3 if I find I really start to enjoy the Sony more.

Maybe it’s a corporate level suicide pact? 🤪

I believe they rated the EM1X as IPX1 which is still essentially a really low rating and still gives them an out on the warranty of use. IP53 on the other hand is a guarantee this thing could handle blowing rain from multiple angles and it won't get damaged and they stand behind that claim and not some vague "weather sealed" (unless you something more than a sprinkle of rain gets on it) kinda of BS.

This guy gets it. DPReview...well...

Nailed it. They can maybe get away with DfD in the GH6 but if their next FF S-series camera does not offer a major upgrade to AF reliability, consistency, and performance then I am of the opinion LUMIX will be on its way out. We now have cheaper cinema level cameras available with less need to buy something like the S1H for cheaper and put up with its limitations. Other video people, driven mostly my YT'ers, will buy something with amazing AF like a Sony or Canon, and maybe even Fuji. It is literally the only feature that matters for them. They have all the rest. But it will remain a mystery why they don't put PDAF in their cameras. At this point it would make a good investigative documentary.

Finally, a camera manufacture willing to slap a IP rating on their "weather sealed" camera and stand behind it! IP53 is a pretty good guarantee of protection. The rating says it is essential highly resistent to dust ingress (but not dust tight; no ingress) and can handle spraying water—think lightly blowing rain from all angles or a low pressure garden sprinkler. Definitely not a "wow" camera but decently solid. Like @John Matthews said I will probably pick up this camera and perhaps the 12-100 f/4 and a f1.2 prime for a "ultralight" camera kit now that it has 10-bit internal up to 4K60p. I'm more interested in the fast and light stills performance. The HiRes handheld without a tripod, handheld or monopod astro abilities, etc... GH6 still no PDAF...more DfD "fast" AI technology. I guess I will hold my beer awhile longer to see how that turns out.

Internal ND filters

From the above... 4K60 10-bit internal 2K200 10-bit internal ("slight" crop) HLG H.265 Prores RAW externally

The FS5 is indeed a very capable camera, even in 2022. The eND is a great feature to have. RAW output is nice to have as well, but the FS700 also has it. But the KEY is to find a secondhanded FS5 with all the upgrades. Without the upgrades, the FS5 is kind of meh. The only exciting feature is the eND. And the offical upgrades are far too expensive. In my local market, a FS5 with the upgrades usually doesn't cost more than $1700 USD. I've got mine for $1300 in 2020. I wish Atomos would releast a smaller version of Shogun Inferno, say, a 5 inch version. It will make so much more sense ergonomic wise for the FS5 and FS700. The Shogun Inferno is just too big and heavy, IMO.

My take is fundamentally different, and I expect to get pushback on this, but I don't think it's getting worse at all. Not picking on you @Marcio Kabke Pinheiro - the "it's all going wrong" narrative is pretty common around here. I think the fundamental issues are to do with humanity and the aggressive parts of our nature. That hasn't changed. Anyone who thinks the current period in history is bad should review history and see how things used to be. Life used to be brutal and short. In almost all cases "might made right" and the golden rule was the only rule - he that has the gold makes the rules. Social media isn't bad at all, it's just an echo chamber. If you don't like the echos you're hearing then find another chamber. Actually, find 27 other chambers. Find something that inspires you. My favourite YouTubers are metalworkers and woodworkers and are building their own homes or cabins in the woods or write music or cook or talk about town planning or explain philosophy or mathematics or physics or economics or travel or living in other cultures/places or.... <and I stopped here, but I was only up to G in my subscriber list> This advice goes for me too, as I need to spend less time on social. I'm trying to read more. I'm actually looking for more hobbies as the pandemic has limited things for so long that I need to have some new things in the mix to break things up and inspire me again.

Well, that would be interesting.

After seeing the value of the 35m f/2, I was somewhat torn; if I could sell it for the market prices, it would help to get a newer camera, and probably the lens could arrive in better hands to use it (remember, I'm an amateur, and with Covid and other work issues I barely shoot at all). But I've got the lens, put it in my X-S10 with a passive adapter, and made some clips of my daughter, my wife and my mother-in-law, inside the house. Looking at the images, I understood all the hype, the footage was beautiful. 🙂 Lens will stay here, except if the prices goes much more crazy. Little side note - did not used my vintage ones since I moved to Fuji, but looks like that all the talk about thickness of the sensor stack (Fuji is much thinner than m4/3) is real - the footage from the lens was much sharper than the same lens on my Panasonics. Very sharp, but not in a digital way.

Not so sure about that Kye… I just need AF tracking to work for anything where someone is walking towards me. On a wedding day, the total time this happens for us about 2 minutes out of 9-15 hours coverage. Those 2 minutes are critical stuff though; entrance of the bride/bridal party, exit of the couple, confetti aisles, sparkler aisles and maybe some exclusive couple stuff. This is where DFD is totally unreliable. Sometimes it will work near faultlessly. Other times not at all. Mostly it’s somewhere between. I have come close so many times to just biting the bullet and trading it all for something more reliable just because of this specific issue. Ultimately though, I have decided against and instead found a workaround as the rest of the package is too good to junk. The workaround is on camera, hotshoe mounted action cam as backup. OK the footage won’t be the same quality and some (hopefully most!) of the time, I will be able to extract a 3 second in focus clip from the 5-10 sequences per wedding where I need to use AF tracking. But if not, I’ll just have to cut in some action cam footage creatively so it doesn’t look out of place. After all, I have been cutting in the same size sensor drone footage for 3 years so why not? The rest of the time, DFD is pretty decent/no issues. However, I am going back to manual focus for anything that isn’t the 2 minutes of every job that needs AF tracking in order to eliminate 100% any potential for even slightly OOF shots. I’m also ditching IBIS for 90% of the day and going back to freestanding monopod as that eliminates that weird sideways jump glitch that IBIS sometimes throws up! It will almost be like working like a proper pro… Even a Canon R5c would make sense to me now 😬

Rolling shutter is a problem in certain situations, mostly that happen in videography. One is when there's lots of motion and you stabilise in post, the other is when you're filming something moving - like filming out the window of a moving vehicle, which is something I do a bit. You're right that it's not horrible though - I remember the Sony A5xxx and A6xxx range being way worse. I also agree that DfD has huge potential but people are just sick of waiting for it because AF seems to have become something that people can't live without. I personally don't care as I manually focus almost exclusively, but the wedding videographers who want to run around with a gimbal and keep the bride in focus at F0.5 seem to shout down anyone who suggests that there are other options. I watch lots of YouTube channels that use Canon and Sony PDAF and they have out-of-focus shots regularly - some vlogs have more than the GH5 people used to have back in the day. No-one seems to talk about that, or when it focuses on the background instead of the vlogger in the middle of the frame.

Anyway, if anyone who doesn't hate LUTs, is interested in film emulation and does have a Panasonic camera would like to try this out I'd be very interested in hearing from you. No hard feelings, @webrunner5

I also use all Godox. I use the Canon version and they worked just fine with the S5. I only use all manual settings though so I do not know if the TTL features work with the S5 and the Canon Godox flashes. I only use my S5 for video so I only briefly tested the flash functions, but they all worked with my current setup. I have almost every flash Godox makes including the V860's (on camera or off camera wireless flashes), the AD360 (off camera) the AD600 (my favorite and most used flashes for off camera fashion and studio work), and Godox QS 1200's for studio work. I trigger them all with the Godox Xpro-C (Canon version) wireless trigger. Keep in mind that if you are going all in on Panasonic that the S5 has a builtin wireless flash radio system that I think can control up to 4 flashes natively, so if that's important to you then you may want to look into lumix or Olympus flashes. I have too much invested in Godox to turn back now and I would rather use a hot shoe mounted trigger vs digging through menus when I need to change flash settings, but I know a lot of people probably don't know the S5 has this capability. I also recommend that for any flash you buy that you verify that it has a wireless receiver, I shoot about 95% off camera and wireless is critical for that. I do love my V860's though, I can throw them on a light stand and shoot everything from real estate to weddings, then put them on camera when I need to run around a venue at an event.

Some screenshots from Pandemic time in 2020. Just ProRes HQ files and sigma 18-35.

For those interested here is a Spec Ad I shot with my colleague Greg Latham last year. A mix of S1/S5 with canon FD primes, the Lumix 24-105 as well as some Sigma 70-200 EF long lens stuff. Still amazed the quality these cameras produces for the price.

Well since I will Never ever use those silly ass googles I guess I never will, I will just see things in a different perceptive using a 21mm lens from my normal 45mm ish view from my eyes. Not really into looking like a total MTV Jackass wearing a headset like you will need. But young people do dumb shit.