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Well, if you insist. I wouldn't say they're competing at all with the GH5/G9 due to the sensor size. Obviously, the GH5 is a great camera, but it's strengths lie solely in video, where the R7 is more of a hybrid camera. It will be better in lowlight, have better color, it includes a Log profile at no extra cost, and it will have great AF. Actually, Canon always gets a bad rap around here, but Panasonic should be ashamed of themselves for selling the GH5 for $1300 over 5 years after release.

I think OP needs to understand that to achieve those looks it's a lot more work than just what camera model is being used. Everything is actually broken down in that video: C70 shooting Clog2, 28-70F2, Aputure lights. Graded in Resolve (5 node tree). The C70 itself has a DGO sensor that gives you extra DR and clean shadows. R6 in contrast has pretty poor DR. Clog2 is also the most flat profile, most ideal for grading. R6 has Clog3 which is pretty close. The 28-70F2 is a jewel of a lens ($3,500). Lighting can go long ways, ND filters etc and finally the grading process which they say can take from 5 hours to 2 weeks depending on the project. So yeah that's quite a bit of gear, work and skill to get there. Getting great cinematic image quality is a lot more than just having good color science or the right camera body. Every step of the way counts and you will certainly not achieve that look SOOC. I love the R6 and you can get close to that look with the right tools (lens, lighting, grading) shooting Clog3. But you're definitely going to have to learn a few things. There is no magic "cinematic" mode like on iPhone13.

I would buy a BMPCC 4K and just learn how to edit and color. They have aa pretty great output. With Raw you can make it look like just about anything. It is not the easy way out, but if you want a great look you have to learn to figure out how to do it. All these people you admire didn't just go out buy a cheap camera and make magic overnight. It takes years to get a certain look that stands out from the crowd. Video is not easy.

So does the R10 with its internal 422 10bit. No Sony A6xxx even does 422/10 externally. AND the R10 is less than $1k (US).

....and if they did their temperature tests in a freezer or in the real world. @mercer - here's the Canon S16 camera you always dreamed of! Don't be silly - everyone knows that shooting kids sports games just needs a lot of reach and high fps, while feature films require a significantly improved image, leaving cats to be the most demanding of all. Maybe a hybrid for the sports and films and the new Alexa for the cats? Sounds about right.. unless RAW it's soft, soft, soft. Overlays disappearing also sounds about right. I wonder if anyone at Canon has a full grasp of which features work in combination with each other feature and mode? It would have to be a 27-dimensional matrix of some kind. I don't think even quantum computing can keep up with the complexities....

Wow. I honestly do not know what to say. In 20 minutes, I feel like my life has changed but I have no idea how, why, or in what way. I am confused, inspired and depressed. Thanks Marcus!

I mentioned in the other thread that I might download the v2.0 internal RAW firmware update for the Z9 even though I don't own the camera yet in case RED sued them....... RED have today filed a lawsuit against Nikon for patent infringement. https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/California_Central_District_Court/8--22-cv-01048/Red.com_LLC_v._Nikon_Corporation_et_al/1/ I'm guessing we are all Larry David hearing of this in no way entirely predictable turn of events 🙂 Z9 firmware update here if you want to get there before the lawyers. https://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/download/fw/444.html

Markus Pix is a colorful figure and I posted one of his videos here before. Such a relaxing vibe despite the oversaturated colours in his videos. 🙂 So surfin utubs today brought me back to magic Markus.:) I like his outgoing and the content which lies between the lines of his presentations. I might not get completely exited by his Hollywood movie "To the ends of time", but I enjoy the fact, that this multitalented vagabound has done a 35mm film, for which he storyboarded, built sets and miniatures after he fi did mattepaintings for Total Recall. "Who am I" could also be a question to ourselves in order to realize we are much more artistic than being limited by the lack of our cameras regarding 12bit 8K 120p. So even if Markus´ film is not the masterpiece he is a master of himself and his ambitions and visions. By the way, Markus was outing himself as an 8bit lover in another of his vids, ranting against 10bit, log and what not. While I might not agree with him on these specifics, I do get his point which I can relate to. So that´s why the title of this thread contains the phrase "an 8bit lover tells his story". How and who are you? 🙂

To paraphrase Harry Callaghan, did I shoot it with the FZ or the LX? Well to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. Its definitely one of them though.

Sony and Samsung presented papers on triple gain sensors (hough those sensors may not have been merging signal for the final image?). I wouldn't be surprised if this sensor has triple gain, with the previous dual gain sensor, specifically for highlights and shadows spaced out wider, and allowing the middle signal for improving merging details across a much wider range.

R7 is a true APS-C hybrid: 32MP stills camera & 7K supersampled 10-bit 4K Clog3. With the best AF in the game. XT4 is currently its only competitor and $300 more expensive with less MP/resolution and not as sophisticated AF. XH2S should be announced next week with some big video features expected (6K / 4K120p) but will run you $2500 and its expected to require an external active cooling kit (similar to the Tilta one for R5) to not overheat. So stay tuned for more APS-C announcements..

Thanks, I thought that's what I read. I know @kye was joking, but I think he could be onto something with his Canon S16 joke... this could be a great opportunity for Canon to offer a S16 1080p Canon RawLite codec. I have a few old c-mounts that would love to see some daylight, some Canon color... and some IBIS.

Correct, the crop only applies to the 1:1 readout 4K60p mode. Of course it isn't end of the world. You should know by now people here just love to sh!t on Canon and focus on every little shortcoming. This isn't a bad offering for their first gen APS-C RF models. R7 destroys any Sony A6xxx cam both in specs and ergonomics. The specs are actually very close to XT4 but with a 7K oversampled mode (and it beats it on stills side & AF).

Its a continuous turn so that rules out it ever feeling completely mechanical. The whole focus range is covered in a 180 degree turn but the bigger issue from that point of view is that the focus ring is (by far) the thinner of the two rings on the lens and considering that there are other ways to zoom then it would have been better to at least make it assignable that you could swap. I've just shot these two quick frames on both cameras and are out of the camera jpeg stills using the STD profile. There are differences but they lie as much in the lens as the colour as the colour discrepancy can be balanced between them so I'd have no issue using them both together, particularly as the LX has the f1.4 aperture at the wide end compared to the f2.8 of the FZ. If you still have the LX then I would definitely recommend you doing the Cinelike D hack on it if you want to get a bit more flexibility.

I believe this is the 8bit video @PannySVHSwas referring to... We could probably debate Marcus' message for a dozen pages. But in the end, who could question the passion in which it's delivered?!

Hello lovely EOSHD. I’m circulating the idea of grabbing some compact “cine lenses” for my Sony’s, and the SLR Magic microprimes caught my eye. I’m after character, with the benefit of a uniform set - easy / fast to change with a follow focus and filters. Also lightweight (unlike other cine housed lenses), as I shoot handheld 90% and my back needs looking after. I already have cine modded Helios 44-2 and others, and they are cool but not uniform as a set. Anyone used the SLR’s? Recommended? All my other lenses are Sony. Clinical as fuck with amazing AF but (mostly) crap at MF. Cheers.

As a GH5 user, I find the whole crop thing to be a highly bizarre topic that makes basically zero sense. When I hear everyone being all apologist about it, I just think you all have Stockholm Syndrome. When I look at my 17.5mm lens, I know it has a 35mm FF FOV. It has that FOV in 24p, 60p, 120p, in 4K, in 1080p, in 5K, in 3.3k, on Wednesday AND Fridays, when the Moon is in Aquarius and Pisces, and with absolutely no reliance on who has the majority of government in the lower chamber of whatever-the-f*ck-country I'm in. The GH5 does have crop modes though - they're FEATURES, not obstacles in a minefield that is different on every camera. The S35 and S16 crops are actually extremely useful on a mirrorless camera because of the lens choices that they open up. S16 especially as there are so few cameras that effectively do it. The GH5, which seems to be copping some heat here, does S16 in native 4K. I agree that it might not have a great feel, but it also doesn't get emotional and irrational and create random issues that will ruin your shoot 🙂 If you insist! You said it first, but I did the math and thought of it before I read your comment 🙂 I wouldn't believe anyone until you see a time-lapse shot of the camera in a temperature-controlled cabinet with a thermometer and a clock, where they keep replacing the battery and memory card until it overheats or they get bored. It's not that I don't think Canon can make a camera that manages heat, it's that we've seen we can't trust them not to lie to us about it.

..and no overheat doesn't matter much either if all your footage is OOF. so yeah ying-yang. from the testing so far R7 seems to manage all the way up to 2 hours in 4Kfine making overheating a non issue. of course we'll have to wait for more real world tests but so far it seems promising on that end.

Lensbaby stuff is pretty crazy for MFT also. Trouble is you spend way too much time experimenting and not really accomplishing anything lol. Same for changing cameras a lot, never get anywhere.

With that said, I understand that this is a business for some people and other factors come into play. Which is why I've often said that some people would be better off with a camcorder, or the latest Canon DSLR/DSLM... they're money making, workhorses.

Idk, there's something soulless about shooting with a Panasonic. It feels like a machine in some ways. I started shooting film stills and although the camera is almost unimportant when you shoot film, certain cameras feel like an extension of your arm. I never felt that with any Panasonic camera. But I have with every Canon, Nikon and even Olympus I've ever owned/shot with. Perhaps it's the longer history those companies have in the camera industry... I don't know, but it's quickly evident.

I had a 12mm Hyperprime on MFT. I used to call it the “micro penis” 😂. It as an interesting lens and I used it a lot.

The only real thing holding Panasonic back is the autofocus. It's what the market demands, whether us Panny users care about it or not. If they had comparable autofocus to Sony or Canon I think they'd have lured a lot of people away. They are superior video cameras in every other way.

I mean, autofocus doesn't really matter if a camera can't be used due to overheating. I think these are decent offerings, but you don't have to be too positive or too negative, it's okay to be neutral and take a wait and see approach.

My friend has a GH5, I've shot with it on a number of occasions. It's a fine camera. Fun to shoot with. 5 years ago I chose the 5D3/ML Raw over the GH5... 5 years later... I'd make the same decision. But I'm not the normal customer... I have my 5D3 and a BMMCC that I RARELY use. I was hoping for the rumored XC20 with RawLite would be released and I would have bought it to fulfill my desire for a CineCorder. Shooting Raw on my 5D3 has spoiled me for most cameras. The FP is kinda good, but an R5C, R3 or 1DX3 would make a lot more sense but they're way out of my price range. So I soldier on with my trusty old 5D3.

Took the public holiday today to investigate further, results before were not good enough. You can disregard my tables. Dead end street... Llaasseerr you were right, if I underexpose middle grey the post production is a becoming a big headache. Now what I did today is set up lighting (camera ISO 800) and my color checker passport. Turned on false colors and tuned the lighting so that the patch which is representing middle grey was green (44 - 47 IRE) in the Atomos. (the one marked in the picture) False color screen showed the following values for those patches, starting with white... 93 IRE, 84 IRE, 75 IRE, 59 IRE, 46 IRE, 26 IRE Loaded the file into FCPX, but instead of pulling the highlights down as usual I did something different this time. On import the file looks totally over... The new idea was to create a curve to bring down the patches to their appropriate brightness. The curve, as smooth as I could get it, looks like this for all ISO values expect for ISO 3200. ISO 800: ISO 3200: Last but not least I now had to search for the correct light meter values to get the exposure matching with my middle grey patch of the color checker. Camera - light meter ISO 800 - 250 ISO 1600 - 640 ISO 3200 - 2000 ISO 6400 - 2500 ISO 12800 - 5000 ISO 25600 - 10000 That's it 🙂 I am happy now. Can use the false colors now correctly and even take a meter reading which is matching the Ninja. Since I have saved my curves as a preset it is now a one double clic action to get the file in FCPX exactly matching what I saw when recording. Basically it seems I have created my own brightness calibration file. Might take a further investigation in regards to colors, but for now the result seems pleasing. Obviously I have tested it with various of my previous recordings and it is just so much better. Maybe this could be of help 🙂

I must insist the S16 joke is from me. But even funnier my splendid comparison of lineskipped 4k with the perfect HD from the GH5.😊 @mercer Canon R7 and R10 compete with a Panasonic GH5 or G9, both on the used market for 600 EUR, both with class leading battery life and stabilization, best ergonomics and sturdyness, perfect HD, 4k above 30p is 8bit though. But since 1080 60p might look as good as 4k60 on the Canons..😆 Buuut if HD up to 60p is good quality and if the image has the dynamic range, organic gentleness, colour quality and grading potential of the C300MKII, without the mushyness and noise reduction in low light, then we have two great image takers here.

He must have figured something out for he and his wife to look that good at nearly 60. I am just amazed how many skills he has and at some point just gives them up. The painting skill would be my favorite. I can't draw a stick man.

He does some very good stuff with lighting. I was looking for a replacement last week for a light panel of mine that stopped working so went on Da Toob for some insight... Dozens of 'reviews', mostly unboxings (wish those things would die) of the intended light panel used indoors in low light...where of course it's going to work! But Markus was the only one I could find actually testing the thing how I'd want to use it. Outside, in full sunshine. Inside, in low light was a given, - I wanted some real world evidence how something was going to work with a back-lit subject around sunset. Answers provided.

I like his presentation and reviews though. @webrunner5 🙂 Beyond that, what did i learn from Gerald? Hmm. Dont dislike his stuff. Very well made, just content wise I am not in the target group as i read a german site for some hard facts and i am more into finally using my older gear than buying a new Canon or Sony. Bought an used Eos M a couple weeks ago. That's gonna be a great joy to play with! I love Markus Pix' way of using gear though i for sure wont buy a Panny G100. And i am getting more out of his videos than u would have assumed by the thumbnail. Or maybe so. Great joy and some good infotainment. 😊

Thank you for your findings. The worst manual focussing i remember was with a thumbwheel on a Fuji X10, which a friend of mine had. So FZ with long throw fly by wire sounds no worse than the rest of the typical bunch. I will try the hack sometime. Will have to read into your enormeous findings.:) The top photo looks more lush to me. Which cam is it from? @BTM_Pix Thanks n cheers

I like Markus. He’s an individual, a character and an enigma. Seems genuine to me. Seen the making of his movie but don’t think I could manage to watch it even though I have a nostalgic fondness for some of those 80’s movies. But fair play to what he achieved and the incredible number of hats he wore on that production.

In addition to previous comments, there's the potential for them to be doing something crazy that we haven't seen before... IIRC their original ALEV was revolutionary, so maybe this one will be as well. Maybe dual-layer or some other kind of change.

DPReview have a video review shot on R7. The footage looks lovely. However, they say 4k crop is soft, 4k non fine is soft, HD 120p is soft. Also, histogram and audio meters disappear when you hit record.

Thanks for the insight, but I'd read that with ISO invariant cameras the limitation was no longer from the noisy A/D converter and instead from full well capacity and photon clipping. (At least for the most part.) It sounds like there is more to this story though. I actually don't know much about this and am curious how they achieved it. Regardless, what Arri has achieved here seems nearly as unique in today's market as the Classic was ten years ago.

You are missing a step. The problem with photodiodes isn't that they are too easily filled up and clipped, but that the signal is too weak and needs to be boosted. The clipping occurs when the a/d convertor cannot handle the boosted photodiode signal. Dual gain sensors get around this by having a regular boosted channel and a second path with little to no boosting(highlights). These two paths are then combined to get a single image. The signal to noise ratio of the photodiode plus boost is increased by the difference in signal strength between the low and high boost channels.

I don't see the Mini price falling that much. They are going for 30-35k used while this bad boy is gonna be 70k. The OG Alexa mini is the smallest ARRI camera and that makes it still desirable. Just my opinion, though I'd be overjoyed if it dropped to 15k'ish LOL

I have a very limited understanding of sensor design, but highlight dynamic range should be dictated by full well capacity. Each photosite is like a bucket. It can only fill with so many photons before it overflows. The reason most of these current cameras are 500-800 base ISO is because they need to underexpose and dig into the shadows to distribute DR since the photosites are only so big and can only hold so much light before being saturated. I suspect when the S1H shoots 640 ISO in V Log, the sensor is reading out the same signal as 100 ISO in another picture style. It's just digitally redistributing the dynamic range into the highlights. The Alexa has about half as many pixels per square inch as the C200 (4K S35), S1H (4K in S35), Venice (4K in S35), etc. Its photosites are about half as big. (2880X1620 = 4665600 photosites; 4096*2304 = 9437184 photosites) So they should hold twice as much light (one stop) before overflowing. Unsurprisingly, the Alexa has about a stop more highlight dynamic range than its competitors at base ISO. The Alexa35, however, has pixels that are about the same size as the C200, S1H, Venice, etc. But it has 1.5 stops MORE highlight dynamic range than the Alexa Classic. So that's 2.5 stops more than the competition. Maybe the base ISO of the Alexa35 will be 1600 to account for some of that (it underexposes and pushes an additional stop)? And the sensor design has physical improvements that account for the rest? Regardless, this puts the camera on another level from everything else on the market. But if its base ISO is 1600 that might explain it to an extent. Or maybe I misunderstand this and there are other factors like voltage involved? Regardless, this camera has already far surpassed my expectations.

No, I don’t. You have no physics evidence to refute ARRI’s claim. They do not use a typical CMOS sensor configuration, they use dual gain architecture at high bit depth to arrive at a higher dynamic range than common CMOS sensors, and there absolutely is real physics behind how they do it, because their current sensors ALREADY do it. There’s no secrets (although there are patents protecting it,) and I think it is not only reasonable, but obvious, to conclude that in the many years since their original sensor design, there are improvements in sensor technology that now allow them to improve by a couple stops.

I have no idea why that giant robot emoji is in my post above. I have edited it twice to delete it and it keeps reappearing! Has the forum been invaded?

I reckon this will be priced a fair amount higher than the Mini LF if it's the full version of this camera (i.e. it replaces the Alexa SXT, not just the Mini) and there demand will outstrip supply by quite a lot. Arri can only build so many cameras plus there's the chip shortage to contend with still. Rental companies will be looking to replace their fleets of Minis (and SXTs) and they have deeper pockets than your typical owner operator, so I'm guessing the strategy would be to price-out most of this market to manage the demand somewhat. As usual, it'll probably be hard to even rent one when they come out as they'll all go to high end features/tv/commercials. At least the LUT salesmen have a new colour science to try and match the Pocket 4K to! Boomtime for the LUTboys.

Somewhere, someone is asking the question, “this or the new Arri? I shoot kids sports games, cats and feature films”.

If you want to get great at shooting Photos start out by doing nothing but B&W. To get a great look in black and white you have to nail the exposure. And that teaches you to take your time, use a light meter and a white balance card. Great photos are rare just snapping a shot you have to take your time look at different angles and think, think a lot. Maybe even come back at a different time, different day. Once you get a good eye for it apply the same for video. Shoot a lot of short stuff and stich it all together and try to make some sense of it in editing. Then try to match each sequence color wise, exposure wise. Doing all of it over and over is the only way to learn anything, your camera and the editing tools. Slow things down and think that is the secret to all of it.

There are not many Great Photographers or Videographers in the whole world. Both are hard as heck to stand out in. I think you need to be a better Photoshop expert than a great Photographer. Same goes with say being a wiz in Resolve or Premier for video. It Ain't easy as they say. I personally like Gerald Undone presentation; it is different than the rest of the pack

So, unless you are trying to shoot video of the moon the video portion is pretty useless if true. Ah good old Canon, never changes.

So 100% trust in the clickbait weasels after the R5 debacle then I see!

This one will capture higher color depth and more dynamic range according to ARRI. That has always been consistently the same on any given ARRI camera until now.

Canon might have released their first ever camera which tempts me. Maybe. (let's see how many hidden gotchas there are... ) But my will power shall remain strong to resist!

Well for the average person you are going to get a Ton more keepers using a smartphone than a normal camera. And now even for people that want to experiment they have a lot more options now than before. How many cameras can shoot Pro Res that are affordable? Raw on Android phones. I have just reached a point where I just want to carry the least I can get by with. I am not going to have even a Sony RX100 with me all the time. I bought a new Tripod for the phone, heck it is like 2 pounds instead of like 8 pounds for my Manfrotto Carbon Fiber. It is just easier. That to me is a huge plus. Nobody is really going to buy a damn 30 pound old Alexa. I have had stuff like that in the past. It is a total pain in the ass to set it up tear it down, and there is always something that goes wrong using it. All that work, drive 30 miles to shoot and the battery is dead, forgot the media, forgot the monitor cable, on and on. Nah I want footage not problems. I am willing to sacrifice some quality for that. Hell not counting the overall cost is peanuts and heck you can even call people with it. And yeah my senior moments are getting worse by the day. Old age sucks I can tell you that.

No, that's Dual Native ISO, not Dual Gain like the GH6 is. Dual Native ISO is when the camera has two native ISO values that it can choose from and picks the best one to use at any given time. Dual Gain (in the sense of the ALEV, Canon DGO, and GH6) is when the sensor has two outputs that each have a different gain and those two outputs are used simultaneously and combined with each other to create a higher DR image, in-camera, in realtime. This is the info from ARRI - https://www.arri.com/en/learn-help/technology/alev-sensors It's something people get confused between, because it's so rare and.... innovative.