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Might come down to talent honestly.

Yup, shooting exclusively in golden hour can make almost any camera and in the hands of almost any idiot look good! Wise words of advice that I should listen too as well! ha (my own emphasis added) Being able to create a video that looks/feels "effortless" is extra impressive! Funnily enough, creating a staged/artificial look that is impressively beautiful is often "easy" to do than to create an unassuming "normal" looking image that is also nice looking. I remember years ago, one of the first times I got blown away by seeing a DoP's talent at work was during this 48Hour Film Festival. It was getting to be late on Saturday, we were losing light, this couldn't be shot tomorrow! As by the time it was daylight again tomorrow we'd be late into the final hours of editing before the deadline that same day. We'd got the scenes in the car driving up in driveway. Got the scenes around the car when they'd stopped. Got wide shots and the scenes walking up to the door, just! As dusk was setting. Phew! Disaster adverted?? Wait... hang on, we still need the big confrontation outside at the doorway between those who answer the door and those who are at the house. Uh oh! But all the light is gone??? Nope, our DoP lit and framed it (with all the right camera movements) so well it was as if it was still daylight. Of course we still had all the interior scenes too, often with quite big windows too. No problem, we kept on shooting late into the night, getting all the shots done. When we saw it in the theatre (we were a finalist!) it all looked beautifully "natural". That's when it really really impressed me, when I saw the final result, and I realized likely EVERYONE (except me, and the rest of the crew/cast) in that movie theatre thought we'd shot the entire film during the day time. And these were just nice pretty "natural" pictures. When in reality it was all FAKED! Everything was totally artificial. That's when I realized how much talent there is in making a quietly unassuming "nonimage". Which is exactly what the story called for. The DoP did what was right for the director. He shouldn't be bringing attention to himself and his flashy lighting techniques. (although he certainly had very elaborate lighting setups!)

If you are struggling to get a good image out of a Canon R6, you sure will struggle to do the same on basically any other modern hybrid. You still have to be good at the same stuff, lighting, grading, composition, things like that. Soak that info like a sponge and stop reading the camera forum debates. It’s a waste of time.

So I got a R5c for a week to test to decide if to switch one of my R5 to a R5c. After the first two days these are my observations in comparison to the R5, that are hard to get from the youtube reviewer madness. The good: 8K 60 RAW is the same quality as 8K 30. Btw in Resolve on my gaming notebook I can playback on a 4k 60 timeline with no issue with some basic color grading. I was expecting worse 4k 60 is great and better than R5 4k 60 logically S35 6K RAW is also very good 4k 120 it seems also a tad better than the R5 but I need more test here to confirm XAVC is a way better format to edit than h265 so the fact that you can do 4k up to 120 fps 10bit Clog3 in XAVC is great The Cinema menu system is much more logical and better organized. Waveform! False Color and Magnifying all during recording. All the right info on the recoding display, the R5 is a bit of mess while recording video. You can decide what you show where for almost anything LCD vs VF vs HDMI You can really decide what you want to record on the second card in parallel, the R5 is ok but fairly restricted More DR, is it 1.5 stop more than R5 as Gerald claims I cannot judge but is definitely better than the R5 No limits, no overheating Still very small body With long lens with IS I really don’t miss IBIS, I see no difference vs R5 (70-200 and 100-500), non IS lens is a no go compared to the R5 logically. Face Only AF is really good for filming person as it will not focus on the bg and back to the face if it looses the face. R5 does not have this mode. AF at the maximum speed settings is on pair with the R5 it seems but I need more test to confirm Media playback has waveform and vector scope, R5 has nothing 2TB delikin cards are fast enough for 8K RAW LT 60 fps I can work with but it could be better: Switching from Photo to Video is slow but not as terrible as I thought, disabling in both Photo and Video the sensor cleaning make it somewhat usable Maximum shutter speed is 1/2000….. I sometime use the camera in 8K RAW as remote camera for pictures and I need more that 1/2000….R5 is 1/4000 Why is like this I have no idea,? The media playback part is not that great, no magnification on playback (same as R5), UI not great, no slow motion playback speed (R5 has it), need a lot of button press to delete videos, you cannot scroll through videos with the wheel, although on the plus side it plays back one after the other (R5 cannot do this). Would be super useful that you could cut RAW video files in the media playback (R5 cannot do neither) No audio controls for the onboard mic. R5 has it. The body is wider so balancing on a Ronin S with the nd adapter and EF 24-70 2.8 is not ideal as the VF bumps on the motor…. with some weights or having the motor work more is fixable. With EF lens no auto Iris but the R5 can do it. Prerecording does not work in RAW The bad: Battery is really miserable and if you record or not it consumes basically the same, the problem that when the menus are displayed the camera still capture video at the frame rate that you set….. the only way that it seems to stop chewing battery is to call the media playback menu, so this is the only trick that seems to work to save battery instead of turning it off. Using PD power banks solve the issue but the USB-C is bound to break and is on the main board. Using a Dummy battery coupler with a V-Mount battery currently is not a good solution because all the dummy ones regulate at 7.2v not enough for 60fps! The only one that serves 9v is the canon one Canon DR-E6C DC Coupler for EOS R5 C 5664C001 B&H Photo Video (bhphotovideo.com) that is overpriced and a piece of junk as you need another adapter for the D-Tap Anton Bauer P-Tap to Canon 9V Barrel Cable (20") 8075-0271 B&H (bhphotovideo.com). Really a bad solution. It desperately needs a third party dummy battery that regulates at 9v similar to this Kondor Blue D-Tap to Canon LP-E6 Dummy Battery KB-DTAP-CLPE6 B&H (bhphotovideo.com) Or the real better solution a battery grip with 1Dx,R3 battery……. If I keep it my plan is to buy a FXLION Nano One and use the USB PD port until somebody sells a 9v D-Tap dummy battery and then simply switch the cable. AF is way less features rich than the R5: no animal, vehicle, helmet tracking. No various AF sizes only whole, large and small. AF > 60fps is limited to Continuous AF, so no face tracking and no object tracking. This is the second biggest issue other than the battery I could not find a way to store and recall settings like C1, C2, C3 on the R5…… so changing from 8K RAW 24p to 4k 120fps XAVC you need to touch multiple menu items. This should really be added. Onboard WiFi is not working in Video mode. Canon should enable the video feature in photo mode like in the R5 so if you need more rich AF and better battery is there. Second they should optimize the battery management while not recording and add more features to the AF. The HW is capable so why not? Third they should sell a D-Tap 9v dummy battery and a R3 battery grip too. Forth they should remake the media playback part, with zoom, minimum video editing and better usability I love the cinema OS for video but they really need to fix the battery and add AF feature then it would be the best camera. I’m even happy if they just re-enable video on the photo mode. More tests in the next days.

Agreed, I have an R6 and it can spit just as good IQ as any latest-gen Canon/Sony in 10-bit Clog3. At least give it a try before giving up and switching systems. If you haven't even shot with it in Log yet and have no grading experience, then you really haven't given the camera a proper chance to prove it self yet. What lenses do you have? Also having ND filters or even something as basic as choosing the right time of the day in relation to forecast/sunlight and avoiding harsh backlit shots etc can make or break footage looking video/filmic. Let's analyse the (FX3) wine commercial you referenced: notice how all shots are done before/after/during sunset (aka golden/magic hour) and on a cloudy overcast day. good location, composition, shot diversity, camera movement, tight editing, synced music, adequate grading that fits the LA beach scenery, faux 8/16mm cuts etc. Plus you know good looking smiling stylised actors living it up with their favourite beverage. that's quite bit of work/experience to get there. every shot is prepared, calculated and staged, not just point & shoot random people at random time/location with an expensive camera. pro video is hard work, having the right tools is just 101 prerequisite.

Honestly, I don’t understand why you even feel limited by the Canon R6. The image is beautiful and the camera is extremely convenient. Don’t fall into the trap of “more buy = more gooder vidyos”. The stuff I shoot on my Nikon Z6 looks much better than the Panasonic G7 I started with, but a big part of that is that I’ve gotten much more real world experience and practice than when I first started out. Yes the camera helped, but what helps even more and is NECESSARY to truly benefit from a camera upgrade is to have enough knowledge and experience to be able to bend and twist the tools to your use. And 1-2 years from now, if I am still using my Z6 my footage will look even better. It’s so easy to get into the trap of needing that next “thing” to get a cinematic image. It’s really all down to you. Can you light well? I bought a large parabolic softbox thinking it would instantly improve my videos. Well I really underestimated the fact that I had to really PRACTICE with the softbox. It didn’t inherently make my videos better, it’s been me trying to figure out how to use it. I’m just now getting close to an “okay” result with my lighting setup. And there are people online that get better results than me, even though they are using even smaller parabolic softboxes that are technically less flattering. the point is, stop worrying about your gear not being good enough. Learn and practice as much as you can. Be patient. It’s taken me over a full year just to get decent color grading results from my log profile. Nothing wrong with the camera, it’s just i lacked experience and still have much to learn.

It's partly because, on average, the people using the expensive cams are "better" at everything involved in making an image than those using the cheaper ones. When I was starting out with still photography about 15 years ago I assumed that top of the line Canon cameras (1d, 5d) had image quality that was streets ahead of the bottom of the range (Rebels). While they were slightly better, of course, the real difference was due to the fact that I was looking at the work of professional users versus hobbyists. Another good example is to compare Olan Collardy's marketing video for the GH6 versus the BTS vid, also shot on the GH6. One looks great and the other looks meh. Same camera, different users.

Yep, I’m pretty sure we hit the baseline for a great image several years ago. Pretty much now as long as the camera meets a certain threshold than all these modern cameras have comparable images; their differences that people fuss over are very minor. Here is an example. My nearly 4 year old Nikon Z6 (I know I spam the forum about that camera) puts out a nice log image with good dynamic range. Basically a lot of what is good about a modern full frame image. Something like a Panasonic S1 or a Sony FX3 will have a “better” image, though the difference is small enough to not be extremely important in the grand scheme. Any modern camera can look amazing.

Indeed and that is partly why I DO shoot weddings full-time. The combo of reward vs effort etc, I haven’t been able to find with anything else, including other genres of photo and video. I guess I am just suited to it whereas most folks probably are not…

FX3 is a bit of an odd camera to me. If you're professional user, then for "only" two grand more you get the vastly better FX6! And only weighs 250gm more, and is barely bigger. It is just a complete no brainer, get the FX6!! (once you average it out per shoot, if you use it for a few years, then it is only costing you pennies extra) If you're not shooting for work, not getting paid, then it makes sense to go for the cheaper option. But then why not go even cheaper and save $500 with the a7Smk3?? You'll gain an EVF, and your trade off is a small risk of overheating (not a big deal on a non-professional shoot). Although, I would argue even spending $3.5K on an a7Smk3 is kinda crazy for a nonpro.... and should get say a GH6/X-H2S/X-T4/S5/Z6/P4K/E2/etc instead! But hey, people spend all sorts of silly money on their hobbies.

I only see LUMIX surviving if they implement PDAF on par with Olympus or better. That is the bottom line. It's 2022 and every camera out there worth a damn is track focusing fairly well (except Fujifilm). I always wondered what exactly Leica contributed to the L-mount alliance except for the mount. They jointly (perhaps) help with development of the LUMIX PL lenses but beyond that Leica SL and SL2 internals are all from Panasonic with the color engine done by Leica. Perhaps Leica agrees to invest more of their profit from their $7000 re-skinned S1R into the alliance going forward.

My point was going to be how even an old old GH2 can look good, and we're four generations on now. And also how different the images can be even with the same camera. Although I suspect you googled (or already knew about the famous Upstream Color) and figured that out.

To be honest I am not that impressed by 12:30. Everything is evenly lit, there's no contrast. It isn't a great test of dynamic range. Plus Kate Bush has really overdosed on the botox. 7:30 is just pointless eye candy with some smoke. Am I missing something? It isn't exactly Blade Runner is it?

Cheated and googled if so! 😉

I agree with @kye that highlight roll-off, when shooting log, is dependent on the tone curve applied/created in grading. In addition to this point it's worth considering that if your camera doesn't have enough stops above middle grey to capture the highlight information you're interested in retaining, you have the option of deliberately underexposing your footage to preserve the highlights and boosting the exposure in post - at the expense of increased shadow noise.

GH2 he prolly means

That is for marketing IMO, I don't even think they have the same people working on it. What does it output 16bit RAW to? The Venice has its own compressed RAW. The FX6 only does Prores RAW to my knowledge. I don't know if I draw the line there but it seems like Sony intentionally limited the FX6 to separate it from the Venice. The Venice shoots its own form of compressed RAW. You can only do Prores RAW on the FX6.

A simple curve in the highlights will do it, and if the curve requires too much contrast to be added to the highlights then you can augment it by desaturating the highlights a touch too, which is a great trick to blend over the areas where the channels are clipping at different points. Digital sensors all clip very very harshly, it's what the camera/NLE/colourist does after that that creates the rolloff.

The video features of the camera, specially codec-related, really drawn the attention to the video sid of it, but I'm interested (for curiosity and prossible trickled down the line - I'm a midrange body guy) to see more tests of the stills performance. Ok, the supposed "stills centric" camera would be the next X-H2 non-S, with 40mp, but this is the wildflfe / sports model (the 40mp model reportedly will not have a stacked sensor). The dedicated grip with MIMO WiFi and Ethernet reinforces that. The buffer sizes are amazing, the fps rates too, but the AF performance is crucial in this scenarios. Did not saw a really dedicated anamorphic mode (the open gate was cited as an option for multiple crops), but probably we will see it in a future firmware update. Anamorphic is getting attention, lots of newer lenses, probaly will be implemented, with more video tools too, like a waveform viewer. About AF and IBIS performance...already a bunch of reviews from smaller reviewers praising it (it becomes norm from ALL manufacturers). I would wait for a production version and more "calm" reviews. For now, albeit they are kind of hated here, I'm more in the camps of Chris & Jordan in their review - AF is better but still not on par with Sony and Canon, and IBIS for video looks the same of the X-T4. But the firmware is not final (almost all reviewers got bugs, even locking the cameras and needing battery removal), better wait the production version. I think that Fuji need to snatch someone from Sony / OM Digital / Canon that have a video focus approach - I always have the impression that thay use the same "logic" for AF and IBIS for both stills and video, and they are different animals. In stills, AF needs absolute precision and IBIS need a stable fram at all costs. For video, AF precision is desirable, but between a slight unprecise focus point is preferrable than a hunting image to achieve focus perfection - is better a single movement to a point a (very) little out of focus than pulsing. And IBIS must priorize smooth movement that a fast movement to stabilize - better drift than jump. Both AF and IBIS must have different logic for video and stills.

My thoughts on the Fuji X-H2S https://www.eoshd.com/news/thoughts-on-the-impressive-fuji-x-h2s/ Did anyone spot a 4:3 anamorphic mode or is it just 3:2 open gate?

If good 8bit 1080 is enough to make you happy, why not get the C300mk1? They're an extremely similar price now in 2022 The C100 is a little under US$1K, while the C300mk1 is a little over US$1K. As the C300 can record at 50 Mbps 4:2:2 XF codec, whereas the C100's highest recording capability is 24 Mbps at 4:2:0 AVCHD codec. a BIG factor in favor of the C300mk1. Not to mention the many extra goodies the C300mk1 has, such as timecode and SDI output. (or splurge out on a C300mk2, but they seem to go for US$4K? Or $3K if you are lucky)

As a software developer, I'd be afraid if they used agile, probably the camera will be refactored every 3 weeks. 🙂

I saw the video example you are referring to. That’s all talent and styled grading. Your R6 can look great, just like that. Don’t think it’s just the camera,

If you are struggling to get a good image out of a Canon R6, you sure will struggle to do the same on basically any other modern hybrid. You still have to be good at the same stuff, lighting, grading, composition, things like that. Soak that info like a sponge and stop reading the camera forum debates. It’s a waste of time.

Like I told you in my PM last night: You seem a little all over the place with what camera system to chose. R5C/R6/C70/A7S3/FX3/FUJI.. There is no magic "cinematic" camera out there. Thing is all latest gen camera bodies will do a good job, but it's really the operator and color grading that will be the decisive factor for making things look filmic.. or not. My advice to you is, again, to learn how to properly shoot/expose in LOG and learn how to grade with the help of some LUTs you enjoy. Nothing will look truly cinematic SOOC. Also more important than camera body is probably lens choice. This can really go long ways to improving IQ. Consider that also when you're planning camera system switching or you might just end up chasing your tail. Too many people focus on camera body and not enough on lens, lighting, filters and color grading / pp skills.

Right, there is no standard and having not tested it, I'm not sure how the Atomos false color responds with all these different input log images. I just don't see how it could be reliable. The built-in fp false color is at least designed just for that camera though.

It, both IBIS and IBIS Boost Mode, is very noticeably worse on the X-T4 than on the GH5 so I assume the X-H2s will be worse than the GH5/GH6 from the footage I've seen

I think someone mentioned this in passing earlier in the thread, but I thought I'd link it in case anyone was interested. The FD Times latest issue is 96 pages devoted purely to the Alexa 35 https://www.fdtimes.com/pdfs/free/115FDTimes-June2022-2.04-150.pdf One of the highlights I found was the ARRI head of sensor design demonstrating a new experimental firmware that reduces the weight of the camera for steadicam operators: But seriously folks.... it's a good read.

Are you talking about this one? I figured that I'd have to learn the false colour standard at some point, but seeing that and realising there is no standard, and that some of these are really very unintuitive, maybe I'd just make my own false-colour LUT and get what I need from that!

While I'm not about to buy, I'm also very interested in the quality of the 1080p on GH6. Double the thanks to anyone who shares this 🙂

@Mmmbeats or anyone else who has a GH6. Would it be possible to do one or the other of these quick tests as there is no hard evidence anywhere that I can find about GH6 1080 quality. 1. Shoot the same scene on a tripod comparing GH6 4k with GH6 1080 and upload an extracted still from each OR 2. Shoot the same scene on a tripod comparing GH6 1080 with GH5 1080 and upload an extracted still from each I am very close to buying a GH6 but if the 1080 is not good then I don't want it. I'd love to see the evidence with my own eyes before I make the purchase. I'll be eternally grateful if someone could take 15 minutes out of their day to do this.

The 14bit readout only gets you ~0.3 stops of additional DR compared to 12bit. Also 14bit readout is 10ms rolling shutter vs 5.6ms in 12bit.

Agree with the first half of the statement. But the Panasonic S1H camera, even though it is very good value, is a high end camera. (so too is the S1R, on par with other high end cameras such as Z7/D850/5DRS/a7Rmk3/etc)

ha! An apt analogy 🙂 Nah, not really, and if so.... only for their cine cameras!

For me this life style is as much about protecting my mental health than anything. There has to be more to life than work, and your work should be something that you enjoy. I tried working at a production company and it devastated my mental health. I just can't do it.

That's because the C100 still output 8bit over HDMI! (might have been 422, but could have still been 420, I forget) Not much surprise that the HDMI recording from the C100 wasn't greatly better.

That showcases the benefits of having an underlying E Mount which the VENICE has! They can use the very small E Mount lenses you see in that BTS. (although I'm still kinda sad that FZ mount got abandoned, which the F3/F5/F55 used 😕 I understand why though)

I think Luminaries is the only set I've been on where I saw it used, which every time there was a gimbal used then the grip followed behind with the VENICE body in a backpack. Even the bare bones ALEXA Mini is kinda big. If you need to go into a VERY small place, it can be tricky. And for gimbal usage, a Mini is very doable and commonly used, but if you want to do lots of long takes on the roll without killing the operator then the VENICE setup I mentioned could be better? Maybe they think the FX3/FX6 is the "smaller VENICE"? (of which they are waaaaaaaaay smaller!) If you want to rig up a dozen crash cams, then the FX3 makes sense.

Even when shooting with spherical lenses, open gate is handy for all those social media marketing shoots.

Yeah you can often find the hospo folks have their own night outs on say a Tuesday evening.

It's survival depends on a lot of things, but I agree that it needs PDAF to grow and thrive. The market spoke long ago, and it demands PDAF.

Very niche. A more practical example of usage is just to make the rigs smaller. But dealing with a smaller body without cables is just easier.

There are still some applications that need to go smaller still.... https://ymcinema.com/2022/05/16/meet-the-cockpit-lens-behind-top-gun-maverick/ I don't think you're getting 4 Alexa Mini bodies into the cockpit of a fighter jet, for example. Besides, the smaller they make the whole camera, the smaller they could make the detachable head, and therefore the smaller the places they could get it compared to the body.

X-H2S is a speed centric camera, it's the very first stacked APS-C sensor and also the fastest, which benefits both stills (action, sport, wild life etc.) and video.

Looking at the prices, any clicked through affiliate links for this camera will certainly produce a genuine shock face from the YouTube bros when they get the cheques. I think I'm going to save up for the Codex Compact Drive Adapter first and build my system up from there. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ K0.0041726 ALEXA 35 Production Set (19mm Studio): $77,940 USD (€71,500) Includes: K1.0039373 1x ALEXA 35 camera body 10.0043678 1x ALEXA 35 Cine License K2.0018983 1x ARRI LPL Mount (LBUS) K2.0016936 1x ARRI PL-to-LPL Adapter K2.0034180 1x Balance Utility Dovetail BUD-1 K2.0023751 1x B-Mount Battery Adapter K2.0020916 1x Multi Viewfinder MVF-2 K2.0042857 2x Cable VF Right Angle (0.5m/1.5ft) K2.0024101 1x Power Distribution Module PDM-1 KK.0041533 1x Production Support Set – Top KK.0041534 1x Production Support Set – Side KK.0041535 1x Production Support Set – Bottom (19mm) K0.0041722 ALEXA 35 Lightweight Set: $75,100 USD (€68.900) Includes: K1.0039373 1x ALEXA 35 camera body 10.0043678 1x ALEXA 35 Cine License K2.0018983 1x ARRI LPL Mount (LBUS) K2.0016936 1x ARRI PL-to-LPL Adapter K2.0034180 1x Balance Utility Dovetail BUD-1 K2.0023751 1x B-Mount Battery Adapter K2.0020916 1x Multi Viewfinder MVF-2 K2.0042857 2x Cable VF Right Angle (0.5m/1.5ft) K2.75007.0 1x Camera Power Cable Straight 2m/6.6in KC-50 KK.0041537 1x Lightweight Support Set – Top KK.0041538 1x Lightweight Support Set – Side KK.0041539 1x Lightweight Support Set – Bottom K0.0041724 ALEXA 35 Body & ARRI LPL Mount Set: $64,880 USD (€60.800) K1.0039373 1x ALEXA 35 camera body 10.0043678 1x ALEXA 35 Cine License K2.0034180 1x Balance Utility Dovetail BUD-1 K2.0023751 1x B-Mount Battery Adapter K2.0018983 1x ARRI LPL Mount (LBUS) K2.0016936 1x ARRI PL-to-LPL Adapter Accessory Costs The MVF-2 EVF costs $8,030 USD A 1TB Codex Compact Drive costs $2,490 USD Codex Compact Drive Reader (USB-C) $690 USD Codex Compact Drive Adapter $550 USD

For Rec709 and PQ it is true that ISO 800 = ISO 100 in terms of sensor clipping and the metering starts to change only from ISO 800 and upwards. Native mode and now with the standard V-Log to Rec709 LUT the Ninja measures as from ISO 100 (both waveform and false colors change). However I do not know if this really showing something in regards to real sensor saturation or if it is just showing applied gain. Actually I think it is the later because of the Sigma ISO guide. ISO 100-800 is the same but with different distribution and gain levels. Will take the measures tomorrow, at least for some key ISO values like 100, 800, 3200. Update to follow.

Prores RAW gets rid of the noise reduction though and you can use it up to 120fps like the internal recordings. But I agree the S1 series cameras are equally as nice aside from the lack of high speed recording. Yeah I have found always being ultra conservative in what you try to accomplish always pays off. Even if you make things as easy as possible for yourself you'll still likely run into problems. I am really tempted to go with the Sony system right now. I keep juggling different options and it seems like the best one for me.

Hmmm I want this. First mirrorless that has interested me in a bit.