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The S1 can also be found for close to 1100 to 1200 versus 4600€ for the FX3. You can’t beat the S series for bang for buck. Here are a couple of videos a friend and I shot last year on the S5 and S1:

I guess I disagree that anyone should have been allowed to patent 8K compressed Raw, or 12k, or 4k 1000 fps--a decade before any of that was possible. I see arguments that the patent is valid because Red were the first to do 4k raw, so to the victor go the spoils... but since we're talking about differences like 23 vs 24, it's a valid point that they patented numbers that they could not achieve at the time. And in a broader sense, I don't understand why a parent should be able to prevent other companies from applying known, existing math to data that they generate. Without even inventing an algorithm, Red legally blocked all compression algorithms.

@kye is absolutely right and I get nervous whenever I'm shooting for somebody else and have to hand over all my footage because they'll see all the shit shots that normally never see the light of day!

Which means they're guarding the act of compression itself. Frame rates and level of compression are also stupid. Its like to patent a CPU with 8 cores to prevent anyone else making any CPU with more than 7 cores. Nobody should be allowed to patent the scale of something.

Let's shoot some quick a dirty dynamic range tests Here's mine, on the balcony First is Sigma Fp-L in 8bit Cinema DNG RAW Second is OM System OM-1 in 10bit LOG 4K: A clear win for the Sigma Fp-L You will need a bigger effort to get the best out of the OM-LOG The Fp-L RAW seems to have that creamy RED EPIC / ALEXA look to me straight out of the can And it doesn't sacrifice a boat load of colour to achieve such a wide DR. This was in full frame mode to SD card. I am sure the external 10bit and 12bit is even better in the highlights.

The paid version of the app is now out for £12.99 on PlayStore. It is really worth it. Here is the result. So good it gives Blackmagic pause for thought. Download original Cinema DNG frame on me: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Hi-MaSjA8tC_5zOmp1yXk09xV6XZg-_s/view?usp=sharing Stuff I like: Can select all manner of quirky frame rates and see if they work. 120p was an option on my Mi 11 Ultra! 24p was officially supported but 25p was in the list of quirky unsupported frame rates. Hopefully it will work along with 50p and 60p as well. Total sensor output is 4080 x 3072 As you can see this is open gate 4:3! The app controls to crop width and height are really handy. Reduces file size too. Above frame was with 44% vertical crop to give me close to 2.35:1 cinemascope style, and results in 7MB/frame. There is option for compressed RAW and multi-frame noise reduction plus in-camera playback and clip management. The RAW containers can be converted in-app to Cinema DNG format or even MP4! Noise grain and detail absolutely tip top.

If it was in stock and if money was no object I guess the Z9 would be an almost perfect camera. But those are two big ifs, especially the second one 😆

Remember the Nikon D1X (over two decades old!!!) is "only" 6 megapixels and a hell of a lot of billboards got shot with the D1X back in the day! https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond1x

I have a strong feeling that most people have been tricked to think that way by the pixel peepers who need to zoom in 400 to 800% 1080p was good enough on my old 60 incher… and you have to remember 1080p is only 2MP. Even if you’re talking billboard size… nobody is walking up to a billboard on the regular. Most of the billboards I see are off of highways… I see one moving at the speed of 60 to 80 miles per hour 1 mile away and that’s if I’m not concentrating on the road/traffic ahead of me. Where is the logic here??? “Oh… I see jagged edges on that Billboard… did he take picture on the first iPhone or something???” All that while driving too???

Here is that well know low light test - Hanging basket in the dark, pioneered by Steve Yedbasket. I encourage you to open that one up and have a look at the grain, as it is quite nice for ISO 6400 from a 9.5K sensor in the dark with no crop. As long as you don't try pushing it in post by 3 stops that is! There is another very good test of RAW video and that is the famous bunny test sequence invented by Roger Sadknockers. I think you can all agree these shots are giving Mr Undone a real run for his money.

Seems to do quite a lot doesn't it ? Good to see ProRes internal. Fuјіfіlm Х-Н2Ѕ Dіgіtаl Саmеrа Воdу Кеу Fеаturеѕ: А bасk-іllumіnаtеd 26.1МР Х-Тrаnѕ 5 ѕtасkеd іmаgіng ѕеnѕоr Nехt-lеvеl реrfоrmаnсе frоm Lіghtnіng-fаѕt Х-Рrосеѕѕоr 5 Ехраndеd lоw lіght сараbіlіtіеѕ аnd uр tо 14-ѕtорѕ оf dуnаmіс rаngе 3.0-іnсh, 1.62 mіllіоn dоt vаrі-аnglе tоuсh Ѕсrееn LСD mоnіtоr 5.76 mіllіоn dоt rеѕоlutіоn еlесtrоnіс vіеwfіndеr Uр tо 40 frаmеѕ реr ѕесоnd uѕіng thе еlесtrоnіс ѕhuttеr Uр tо 15 frаmеѕ реr ѕесоnd uѕіng thе mесhаnісаl ѕhuttеr 4К/120Р, 6.2К/30Р аnd НD/240Р vіdео rесоrdіng fоrmаtѕ Rесоrdѕ Аррlе РrоRеѕНQ іntеrnаllу іn 10-bіt аt 4:2:2 Nеwlу dеvеlореd Flоg2 еnсоdіng fоr grеаtеr dуnаmіс rаngе Uр tо 7 ѕtорѕ оf Іntеrnаl Воdу Іmаgе Ѕtаbіlіѕаtіоn (ІВІЅ) Оffеrѕ ехtеrnаl rесоrdіng оf РrоRеѕ Rаw аnd Вlасkmаgіс Rаw Ѕubјесt dеtесtіоn wіth dеер lеаrnіng АІ аdарtіvе аutоfосuѕ Іdеntіfіеѕ аnd trасkѕ саrѕ, рlаnеѕ, trаіnѕ, bіrdѕ, hоrѕеѕ аnd mоrе Соnѕіѕtеnt АF реrfоrmаnсе thаt wоrkѕ іn lіght lеvеlѕ аѕ lоw аѕ -7ЕV

The Z9 does mostly everything well, but the R5 has the better AF & is waaaay lighter. Sometimes I just need something light to get-in & out. R5 will be the BCAM in my studio shoots & as well as the backup for events since I need 2 cameras. I do prefer the R5 as the primary when doing portrait stills due to color science.

Just curious, what does the R5 do for you that the Z9 can't?

Dalsa was the first company with a 4K raw cinema camera.

I can confirm the R5C AF is not up to the task. I wasn't expecting it to be so bad. Couldn't reliably nail focus on simple subjects. The R5 runs circles around the R5C AF wise. I'd rather deal with the overheating on the R5 then the AF of the R5C. I sent mine back. I loved most everything else about it. I'll have to go dual system with the R5 & Z9.

I think the major issue is that the defined, specific minimum frame rate (and lesser extent resolution) RED used in their patent is the standard for an entire industry that existed for a century before RED. Not a great analogy, but it would be like Tesla patenting electric cars capable of going over 65mph while the U.S. interstate system is largely built for that exact speed of traffic with combustion cars for over a century.

They can draw the line wherever they like, but there is still nothing groundbreakingly unique that's worthy of a patent. Just because someone else has done 8fps but not 9fps, doesn't mean you can then patent 9fps. That's utterly ridiculous!

Should 24fps and 25fps be two different patents?

Depends on our needs but for mine (ultimate hybrid), right now, it would be the current benchmark. Pure stills, Fuji GFX100s. Pure video, my needs, probably still S1H. Most compact (hybrid), OM-1. Point being, there’s no one perfect solution…

The other major factor for amateurs is the hidden factor of editing. When you're watching a video on YT, especially about a camera (rather than what the camera is pointed at), you're probably looking at cherry-picked shots. Regardless of if a video is shot outside in available light, is indoor but naturally lit, or completely staged including lighting, the finished video you're watching probably only contains the best shots that the person captured. If you don't know this, then you're going to pick up a camera, point it at things, and then expect to be able to make every shot you take as good as the best-of-the-best shots that have been posted online. It would be a dirty big secret only it's not a secret at all, it's just that amateurs don't know about it. Are you familiar with shooting ratios?

Roger Sadknockers needs a forum invite.

Most 1080p Cine cameras, the Sony F3, Canon C100, Panny Af100, etc. only had sensors of say 3.5mp or less. It is pretty amazing how little you need for video.

You can still crop in 4k and have a nice looking photo as long as you aren't printing huge stuff. 12MP is enough for most applications.

Really weird. I had to restart the camera and put an L-mount lens on it before it started working. Now it is actually selecting 1/50 rather than 1/60, with the Sigma lens as well as with a manual focus Leica M adapter aka Billy No Lens.

Amen! Simply unbearable. Those are channels that I wouldn’t watch even if you paid me to watch them.

And those 5D Mark III become dirt cheap now. Just bought myself a 5D3 with 300k clicks and some battery/memory cards for just €200 😎

He looks perfectly sane to me.

That's the problem with LOG. It always has a look baked in and it takes serious effort to get the best out of it and tailoring to a particularly scene. Whereas with RAW it is so much easier to get it looking cinematic. Magic Lantern RAW on the 5D Mark III in 3.5K still ranks above 95% of the camera market in terms of just image quality. Will do a test later in low light and see if the Fp-L holds up at high ISOs because it is a 9.5K sensor. The most data at 24fps it can do is 7K crop at 30ms rolling shutter, but the pixel binned 4K from full frame 9.5K has held up really well so far, it doesn't really have any moire or aliasing and dynamic range is fully intact.

I went to a mini airshow F/A 18 and F5 and to a horse show jumping in these 3 days, something that I used a lot the R5 for and unfortunately even with the max speed setting the AF of the R5c is basically unusable for action, where the R5 would mostly keep the subject covered in the AF area in focus, the R5c would mostly stick to the BG 😞. I used the large area that is very similar to the square area of the R5 that I normally used but unfortunately is a no go. On the jet I had to switch to the whole area to get something if focus but with the horse show jumping you can't as it will focus on the obstacles and not the athlete. Not really sure what to try but I would say the AF of the R5c is not ready for action. I really want the R5 AF on the R5c or just enable the video in the photo mode!!!!!!!!!!! Also another annoying thing that when you turn off and back on the camera it put the AF square back to the center, not sure there is a setting for this but it should stay where I left it. On the playback page you cannot applying any lut and you cannot magnify so really hard to tell if it is in focus. Now I need to think if to buy one as B cam where the AF is not so key as I mostly prefocus and for long recording or just stick with 2 R5. Conclusion so far R5c is not a better R5 is a different R5 with some better and some worst part. A missed opportunity imo. The R5 would never do this to stay on the BG and I have done 50+ Show Jumping video with the R5 and the exact same lens.

Yes I think it's focused more on the tree than the letter box. The detail on the tree looks pretty good though. Presumably the 1080 pixel-pixel will be identical to the center 50% crop of the 4K pixel-pixel, which looks all right. It's worth considering that the loss in sharpness must be attributable to some degree to the optics and a usable result might be garnered from a razor sharp lens. I think if I really needed a shot of something very far away and didn't have a long enough lens then I would use 1080 pixel-pixel.

Yes, the megapixel wars in photography ceased to be relevant for 97% of us many many years ago.

Righto. Slightly embarrassed as I shot these almost a month ago now, and I'm sure they would have been a bit more useful then, but anyway... All shot with DR Boost turned off (I almost always have it turned on now). I used a bit of VND to regulate exposure. Focus is on the post box. These are 'as shot', resolved with Nicest 709 LUT, which is a Panasonic LUT for V Log. I usually tame the saturation a bit! [These have loaded in the reverse order I intended. You might want to view them from the bottom up!]

Tasty treat that it will be! @hyalinejim I am also very interested if it gives us the possibilty to film in Super16 crop (1.4x additional crop) and in 2x Digizoom as it was possible on the Gh5. Hopefully Panny will get the streaking problem solved and gives us Prores in all the other videomodes soon! Battery life would be another thing of great interest. Maybe i should have watched the review above as well. 🙂

No worries if you're too busy or just want to relax. I'm happy enough based on the review I referenced earlier that the 1080 is good. I plan on picking one up on Tuesday and will do a comparison with the GH5 in 4K and HD then as I'm sure @kye and @mercer will be interested in the results

I'll do it later today (UK time). It's really the first day I've had with any semblance of time sanity for quite a while. Thankfully I've been getting some exciting but demanding jobs all in a row lately.

Yup, that's another example of what B.S. the RED patent is. "oh noes, someone else is already doing 1080, guess we'll just have to make our patent be for everything 2K and over!" Bet the OG Pocket Cinema Camera could have given us 2K raw (rather than maxing out at 1080) if not for RED. "oh noes, someone else is already doing 5:1, guess we'll just have to make our patent be for everything 6:1 and greater!" Not really, is there a massive difference between 24fps or 23fps?? Or 22fps and 21fps? Or 18fps and 17fps? Or 9fps and 8fps? That's why by a simple process of induction, I say no. Sony already had on offer 12bit 444 And there were already numerous cameras shooting raw such as SI-2K & Viper Proves the point that we wouldn't be all lost without hope if not for RED's "innovation", when they were merely hours earlier in filing a similar patent than someone else. Clearly this was all in the minds and familiar to numerous people around the world back then. Yes, I fully give credit to RED for launching the revolutionary RED ONE! (just like how the D90/5Dmk2 were all revolutionary as well! But that doesn't mean Nikon should have got a patent for HDSLRs just because they were "first"! Yikes, imagine a world where only Nikon could make HDSLRs?? 😮 ) And also the EPIC after the RED ONE was another leap forward for RED. Excellent stuff. But I can't buy the argument that RED has overall been a net positive rather than a net negative, I find that a little difficult argument to buy as it is on tenuous grounds. Because whatever good they did with RED ONE and DSMC1, I feel that has been greatly undone by the barriers RED has put up and stifling of the industry they've also created. Where might Blackmagic be today if not for the landmines they've had to step around which RED has placed? How much stronger might Kinefinity (& Z Cam) might be today if they could have had proper USA distribution and servicing of their cameras? (as that has undoubtedly been their biggest roadblock in getting widespread adoption in America / Hollywood. I've even had friends who in the past who looked into being a distributor for Kinefinity, but didn't because of RED. Of course now Kinefinity finally does have representation in USA, but imagine if they'd got this back in the early 2010's instead of only finally now? And without the limits RED placed upon them) Might AJA or Digital Bolex had a second chance of success with another follow up camera if they first camera didn't have to worry about strife from RED lawyers? Even worse, what is the unseen? How many companies don't even exist and never tried because of RED?

It's not the distance between the mount and the sensor, but the circular size of the mount itself. There's not a ton of room for the sensor to move left, right, up and down because the mount is so small. This limits how much the IBIS can work. I think they'd need a pretty substantial crop in order to get comparable results as Panny, Canon, and Nikon. I think this is why Sony has moved towards post-stabilization options with Catalyst Browse. It was simultaneously a very smart and very dumb move to use the same mount for FF. It is more of a positive, but it'll probably be a long time and require a lot of processing power if they're ever going to catch up in the stabilization department. It's nice that they've offered an alternative with Catalyst Browse but it's not ideal. I wonder if Fuji is having similar problems because of the mount size? I'm also curious why there has been such a drop off in AF performance since the X-T3 and whether the IBIS is responsible?

That camera is way out of what I could pay. And I really never buy a new camera, that way I can sell it say 6 months later for nearly what I paid for it. Plus, it doesn't have an EVF. In the day time the LCD screens suck ass and I can't see them too well at my age either. But that might not be a problem for you. To me stuff that cost that much needs to earn the money back. I don't do anything for money cameras wise anymore so...

If you are struggling to get a good image out of a Canon R6, you sure will struggle to do the same on basically any other modern hybrid. You still have to be good at the same stuff, lighting, grading, composition, things like that. Soak that info like a sponge and stop reading the camera forum debates. It’s a waste of time.

Like I told you in my PM last night: You seem a little all over the place with what camera system to chose. R5C/R6/C70/A7S3/FX3/FUJI.. There is no magic "cinematic" camera out there. Thing is all latest gen camera bodies will do a good job, but it's really the operator and color grading that will be the decisive factor for making things look filmic.. or not. My advice to you is, again, to learn how to properly shoot/expose in LOG and learn how to grade with the help of some LUTs you enjoy. Nothing will look truly cinematic SOOC. Also more important than camera body is probably lens choice. This can really go long ways to improving IQ. Consider that also when you're planning camera system switching or you might just end up chasing your tail. Too many people focus on camera body and not enough on lens, lighting, filters and color grading / pp skills.

Might come down to talent honestly.

The Vast majority of people using a Fuji camera are using it in photo mode. Why would you want the added cost and bulk for that purpose. The bulk of all video for normal people come from Smartphones. It is only weird people like us that shoot video on a camera..

I will never understand why more companies haven't done more power zooms. That lens sounds like a killer, even if it is a little bit on the slow side. Well worth it for a versatile lens that can do all of that. I kind of agree, but also kinda just wish they'd build a fan straight into the camera. I get why they didn't, and I get that for MOST uses it will not be required, but it's just hard to get behind the idea of having to buy an external fan accessory to help with overheating. They are getting SO CLOSE, but I agree. There are just enough quirks still that make it hard to jump into the Fuji system. The big thing for me is they need updated lenses that can handle changes in exposure better. This new lens is definitely incredible, but what they've got out there right now aren't too good in this regard. That's a dealbreaker for me. The IBIS also doesn't look very good at all in video and seems more geared towards stills. My sports work needs good stabilization, because the cameras are so lightweight and small (+1 for the old heavy camcorders of yesteryear not needing stabilization because of how big and heavy they were!) I love those Fuji colors so much though! I look forward to trying it anyway!

The FAN-001 calling accessory is an interesting idea. Acknowledging that under very hot conditions and long recording times, there will be issues. But also being ready with a solution for the user! An easy to integrate fan. Seems like a somewhat smarter idea than building it into the camera itself? As stills photographers don't want that! Neither do the 99% of us who don't shoot for hours and hours in the Sarah Desert. But they have this slick looking "fix" for those who do care about this. Even has internal ProRes like a Blackmagic!

6.2K/4K120p, ProRes & Open-gate mode. Looks like we have a new APS-C hybrid king. Still seems like quite a few quirks but impressive specs on paper. It's almost like a BM 6K with IBIS & AF. And a more flexible mount.

I agree, the Fujinon XF 18-120mm F4 LM PZ WR Parfocal Hybrid Lens is more exciting! First ever collaboration too between the two branches of Fujinon vs Fujifilm.

Yes! If the descriptions turn out true in September, I’m getting the lens this fall. “…minimal focus breathing, stepless aperture control, and constant F4 aperture. Pull focus, make precise adjustments to iris, or change focal length without causing any noticeable distractions to the recorded footage.” All depends on what is “noticeable” to you. But no doubt will be a huge improvement over the present exposure-stepping zooms. Twice the zoom range and 1/3rd the cost of the Fuji cinema zooms, with auto focus. https://fujifilm-x.com/en-us/products/lenses/xf18-120mmf4-lm-pz-wr/ Works with X-T3. X-T4, X-S10 with firmware coming in Sept. “…the first lens to be designed in ‘collaboration between FUJINON Optics and FUJIFILM X Series engineers” https://www.dpreview.com/news/3492623346/fujifilm-xf-18-120mm-f4-lm-pz-wr-lens-is-parfocal-weather-sealed-and-will-cost-just-899

More impressive than the camera (which looks great) is that XF18-120mm. Parfocal, minimal breathing, weather-sealed, and a power zoom built into the lens! Fantastic. Lenses make or break a system and Fuji just laid down the gauntlet to other manufacturers. Sony and Canon have some impressive cine options, but no lenses that are equally at home in photo and video mode. This XF18-120mm is a new breed. Panasonic have some incredible lenses in both m43 and L mount, but I sure do wish the Lumix division would work with their video division and turn some of their beautiful stills glass into cine versions.

Well there is our GH6 killer!!