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Well, I made a total liar out of myself and went and bought another Panasonic GH5 with V Log in it. And to make it even more crazy I bought a Canon FD 300mm f2.8 lens, the big white one, with it, and the older 14-140mm Panny lens, the black and gray one. With the newer firmware updates the GH5 has gotten a lot better than when I had mine before. Pretty hard camera to beat used even today. The 300mm ought to be good for birding and well why not. I am going to use it with my EF to M4/3 Speedbooster so will be interesting. So now I will have even more stuff.

Here is a little video I filmed during the pandemic lockdown. The password is 1234 Why aren't F3 prices coming down 😞, There is literally a broken one on ebay from adorama for almost 600$. They are drunk with that price. I remember getting my first sony F3 for 400$ in 2018. I'm such a fool for selling it. Love the footage that comes out of my Fujifilm X-T3 now but the F3 has such a unique sauce, Gosh.

uhm im missing whats good about this

I rewatched the video on the phone and my desktop. I still must say, it looks fantastic to me. Exellent colour response and separation. Best I have seen from any camera under natural light on youtube other than Red or BM. I don´t look for Arri videos. 😉

thanks! I figured it out.

The "through the fence" shot at 38seconds I found spectacular. Colour, spatial feel, perfect! @kye

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xylbwiWkAPE Here comes the FERARRI (still didn't find out how to insert U2B video straight into post😅

That lens is working well for you. Looks good, amazing for what they are price wise used.

I can run a test for you if you tell me the parameters you're interesred in. I can run record on a full battery and see how long it lasts.

Heck yes that is the best shooting format ever. I do it all the time with my Z6. You could get a cheap ninja star, and on practically any camera with separate hdmi output settings, can select 4k as the record format but set 1080 as the hdmi output format. Now you have oversampled Prores hq 1080p. Just no slow motion, which I don’t care about b

The GH6 is the likely replacement for my GH5 but I'm waiting until I start travelling again until I buy something. I'm hoping that Panasonic will gradually "fill out" the modes and options. Off the top of my head, these are some of the things that people are talking about: Digital zoom (2x and 3x would be great)** 1080p48** Prores 444 (12-bit!!)** Prores LT (UHD 328Mbps or 6K ~750Mbps) UHD resolution modes More of the lower resolution modes (like you're saying with the 3.3K anamorphic) SSD recording USB-C charging ** - these are the things that I'm seriously hoping for. The GH6 anamorphic modes and especially anamorphic stabilisation will only become a larger and larger feature once the new batch of anamorphic glass from China really comes in. At the moment the camera market seems to be very fragmented and the GH6 has a number of very serious but unlikely competitors. For me, the weaknesses of the GH5 are the DR and lacklustre colour science. The camera industry has made huge improvements on these since the GH5 and the GH6 doesn't appear to have caught up to the leaders. As such, and chasing those things, the two main competitors are the Sigma FP (FF, spectacular DR and colour, lacking codecs and stabilisation - either IBIS or OIS lens options), or potentially something from Blackmagic if they get their shit together and release a camera with the image of the 6K or 12K UMP but that will fit into the same seat as me on planes/trains/ferries/etc. However, if someone (Deezid?) is getting Alexa-like results from it then I'm all ears (or eyes!) about how that's possible and what working methods that might involve.

We have the GH6 for work. The lack of anamorphic shooting options frustrates me as we have a slew of anamorphic lenses. There is no 3.3K (which desqueezed would make a nice 4K image). Instead, we got 5.7K anamorphic and 4.6K anamorphic at 48fps?!? I can only reason was to shoot anamorphic in high resolution and slow motion as high of a resolution as they could (4.6K). The issue I have is the 3.3K 4:3 desqueezed gives it that nice textured Super 35mm look. 5.7 is too clean for anamorphic for me. I’m confused as to why that was omitted. Not to mention all the anamorphic modes are 10 bit 420 Long GOP with no ProRes options at all. The GH5 is a Anamorphic beast IMHO.

Yeah, the GX85 is a lovely little cam. If it only had the awesome 10bit 150mbit codec and no mush but noise in low light. I love to hold and to film with it. Even more than that I love taking pictures with it.

The IBIS is great - and somehow the C-AF in video mode seems a lot better than on the S1 - which is odd.

Well, The Sony Xperia Pro 5G has a HDMI port in it, and an Apple 13 Pro has ProRes in it. So, it is not like they can't or won't be able do it.

There is a lot more going on with the Atomos with regard to the custom FPGA that does the processing, HDMI input/Output interface, audio interface, SSD interface, expansion interface etc that requires not only additional space but additional power and heatsink/cooling solution that wouldn't make it practical to use the same form factor as your iPhone. The reality is that it would be far easier to turn the Ninja V into a smartphone than the other way round. However....when it comes to the screen part of the equation, this is an amusing/infuriating story regarding Atomos and smartphones from the original Ninja where the screen they used was actually a concealed off the shelf HTC phone screen and its housing. INCLUDING the logo and phone buttons ! https://themagicalworldofsakie.wordpress.com/2018/06/19/atomos-ninja-screen-replacement-rant/

Also way to revive an ancient thread 😁

Good for you.

Phones are aimed at a much bigger mainstream market. If they are to put in HDMI inputs, taking up valuable space, or even make USB C capable of video input, they would need to license ProRes and RAW codecs, all adding to the cost of the phone for the normal guy on the street to no benefit for him. I don't think anyone really needs a Ninja. Codecs are good enough in-camera these days to do without the hassle.

The way I think about it is that every camera takes the real-world and creates a stylised version of it, with a unique way to represent colour, luminance, noise, etc, etc. Some scenes will look better when given the treatment that camera A gives rather than camera B, but a different scene might be better with camera B instead. This is kind of like when you grade footage, you take the input and change it in a unique way. In just the same way that a grade that works nicely on one project won't always look nice on the next, every camera probably has its own unique situation where it provides just what is needed. Maybe the GH4 is the camera you've always wanted for filming hysterically happy mannequins in high-DR mixed lighting?

Oddly, I found myself drawn to the imperfections of the GH4 in the test, which has never stood out to me at all. Interesting.

Maybe this one from the same guy above helps on a decision with the GH6. More focused on it no pun lol.

The one big problem with color output is that men and women see colors differently, and there are more people than you think that are color blind, mostly men, I think. So, I would guess other than brightness levels B&W would be seen on an equal footing by the vast majority of people the same.

I think colors have an effect on perceived sharpness. Back in the film days it seemed to me that no color film could be as sharp as B&W was. Slide film seemed the sharpest, and B&W still beat that when exposed perfectly, same way with slide film. This new to me Canon FD 300L 2.8 lens was touted as the sharpest lens in the world back in the day. Will be interesting to see if that is true if the damn thing works lol.

Hey, that would be fantastic. I´d suggest Dynamic boost in 4K60p, 10bit 422, Long GOP. That should be the most challenging and with the most interesting feature of Dynamic boost included. Thanks a lot! @hyalinejim That´s a strategy I highly recommend. I hopefully will get to use all my equipment more and also sell what I don´t use. You also got the mighty and beautiful GX85, the dear friend of your GF3.:) @kye

I suspect that you're right for most cases. I've tried sharpening the GF3 image and it just reveals the compression around edges coming from the poor codec (17Mbps just isn't enough), and I've found that higher bitrates mostly don't need sharpening and higher resolutions don't need it. What did need it though was the RAW and Prores 1080p from the OG BMPCC and BMMCC, as it was a little too soft straight out of the camera for my tastes. I'm not sure how much this was due to the lens sharpness (the specific video I'm remembering was the BMMCC with 14mm F2.5 lens wide open - maybe if it was stopped down where it's ultra-sharp that might not have needed it?). Anyway, apart from the BM cameras, I've never needed to sharpen, only to soften, but maybe there's a combo of camera / codec / lens that benefits from a little sharpening. Adding a little sharpening in post can be invisible. In my test where I zoomed in post to 150% it was obvious which the zoomed image was until I added some sharpening to match and then they were indistinguishable and the image didn't look sharpened at all. Anyway, all this is why I need to do the tests.

I am not too fond of sharping in camera or in post at all. I think doing that with a great lens known for sharpness, Zeiss comes to mind, is the way to go. It is natural looking and predictable. And yes certain cameras are known for good sharpness also.

Thanks for posting this - I hadn't seen it and I really enjoy doing these blind tests as they reveal what products you like and also reveal what things you're looking for (I look for colour first and foremost, then texture). My results were as follows: F BMCC D GH4 B- NX1, C100 B GH2, Z6 B+ GH1 A 1DC, EVA1 A+ GH6 The BMCC looked like it had colour issues (likely IR pollution). Most of the cameras got marked down for looking "dirty" which came from shadows being too blue or the image being unacceptably noisy (some noise is fine). I went back and forth on the top five as some of them made the saturated colours in the checker look neon and others made them darker and desaturated them slightly (like film does) so this aspect is sort-of personal taste. I must say that I wouldn't have predicted the GH6 coming out on top next to the Z6, 1DC and EVA1 in there, but if the test had included a more modern Canon camera, a current BM camera, a Sony FF camera, or a Sigma FP then I suspect the GH6 might have struggled as those are all excellent. It's also sad it didn't include a OG BMPCC or BMMCC. Here's a video that @mercer showed me that is just spectacular.

I stopped being a tech early adopter a long time ago, now I wait for the tech behemoths to beta-test their products on other people and work out the bugs (you know, or don't) before jumping in. My plan is to hold off on buying anything until I start travelling again, which is COVID dependent and let's just say that I think that'll be a long time. Even then, with the improvements in Resolve and my glacially-improving colour grading skills, I could easily hold-off for a trip or three and just keep using the GH5. Right now, the cameras that are most interesting to me are my BMMCC and my GF3.

I imagine, Panasonic could cash in with a GXTen, just delivering what the GH5 does but in its beautiful form factor and with its built quality. Except, the back dial lost its function after two years of usuage and I read I am not the only one with the back dial issue. Imagine a GX Ten with great PDAF and 10bit GH5 quality and a swivel screen. It would sell like hot cakes I imagine.

You could even get this from a Sony a7iv when using this setup. Gerald Undone uses this same principle on the Sony A1 to get 8k down sampled to a ninja v.

That they left out Prores for UHD and anamorphic modes plus Prores LT in general is really akward. Internal NDs would have helped this camera on the number 1 spot for mirrorless video. The latter cannot be changed. A GH6Cinema could change that. But by then a S2H will rock the market. If Sony is clever they give the A7s3 a mode without noise reduction. Until that does not happen, i would consider the Gh6 more compelling due to its "organic" low light image, which the Gh5 does not provide btw.

Amusing comment about the influencers rigging out their cameras. I think if you gave them a camera, asked them why they rigged it, fixed that thing so the camera did it without needing rigging, then went around that loop half-a-dozen times I think you'd find they'd get to a point where they'd still rig it but wouldn't be able to tell you why (or would give you some stupid answer that is fluff like personal preference). Ultimately, I think the "unknown last answer" as to why they want to rig things up is that without a rig they don't feel as important or as "professional" as they feel with a rig. Hardly any of them would admit this and most probably don't even know it themselves, but I think it's there, underneath all the other reasons that get thrown around. I must admit the A74 caught my eye, just out of sheer dynamic range per dollar. Sony has gotten their colour science sorted since the original days of the A7S when everything was green - now they are almost indistinguishable in a blind test between a Sony and Canon when the footage from each just has the official LUT put on top. For my purposes, I really want Prores HQ in downsampled 1080p from a camera. The GH5 has the 200Mbps 10-bit 422 ALL-I h264 mode that's pretty good, but I'd prefer Prores if I can get it in a camera. It's partly for the file-sizes, but it's also for the ease of editing on my laptop and not needing to generate proxies. For some reason I've seen that the Prores from cameras that do it is much better looking than the h264 or h265 from cameras that use those codecs. I'm not sure if it's the processing that the cameras do (after all, only the more professional cameras use prores, so maybe they sharpen and NR far less) but the experience in post is very different when grading, and I much prefer the more analog film-like aesthetic rather than the hyper-modern aesthetic. I'm contemplating moving to shoot 48p with a 1/60s shutter. On a 24p timeline this would allow me to either get real-time playback with a 144 degree shutter (and have the NLE only use every second frame), or conform the 48p to 24p (using every frame) and get 50% slow-motion with an almost 288 degree shutter. Those shutter angles would give the real-time footage a relatively neutral aesthetic, and give the 50% speed footage a dreamy slightly surreal aesthetic, but would allow me to choose which aesthetic I use in the edit once I get to post-production. There are a lot of times when I'm out and hit record and I don't really know what the shot will be, so I can't really decide before I hit record. I have been in an Italian town square and hit record and been getting a shot of my friends eating ice-cream in the sun and talking and then I see the flock of birds get startled by a little kid running and so follow them as they fly overhead and around the square waiting for the ground to be safe again. Another example is when I'm shooting a group of people talking and one of them flashes a smile that only lasts a second or two. One part of those shots works better in real-time with audio and the other in slow-motion without it, and shooting 48p 1/60s would give me the ability to choose in post, or even transition in-between them if I was editing in a particularly stylistic fashion. That will depend on what camera I end up with though, as not many cameras shoot 48p. I could put it in PAL mode and shoot 50p for a 25p timeline, or even 60p for a 30p timeline, or even 60p for a 24p timeline and a 3:2 pulldown but I'm not that keen on any of those, as my other cameras all have 24p but not 25p, so I'd end up with 24p vs 25p audio sync issues. I've recorded footage in 60p and not liked the horrible bitrate options and I've recorded 24/25p and tried time-stretching the footage in post, but neither gives a result that is worth having the option of the slow-motion footage. These days most of my shots are normal speed, static compositions (with the occasional slow pan/tilt) so that's the priority, but it would be nice to have the option for the odd shot where its warranted.

Beautiful footage indeed, puts it at a new camcorder level indeed : ) It could be a grand less at least, even though without VAT in Europe ends for about €3500.

Thanks Kye. I actually read that article years ago. But thanks for linking to it, it definitely jogged my memory.

I consider it on average at least once per week. Sometimes, several times a day… And as someone already exclusively L Mount, maybe I should just scratch that itch and be done with it. Original FP. The L is more stills orientated and has one too many issues for me, being e shutter only. But the OG FP… Cine DNG. I’d like to try it. The lack of a tilt screen? Two options: A. DIY the available aftermarket screen. B. Ninja V or similar, used to tilted backwards like a massive tilt screen. Stab? Has electronic I think and being an owner of the Panny 24-105 f4 with OIS, that’s another option. Or, I have the Fotodiox EF to L Mount adapter with build in VND. Whack any one of the EF Mount Tamron f1.8 primes which have VC, Tamron’s terminology for lens stab. Only thing that still bothers me is a lack of 4K 50/60p which I use a lot. I think if it had the latter, it would have tipped me over the edge a long time back, but still considering as I have other full frame option that do…

This looks like a pretty good lowlight test for the R7, IMO as I expected, it is more than sufficient for my needs, it was very interesting seeing it compared to the R5C as well. Also, I did not realize until watching this video that the R5C and I assume the R5 has dual native ISO.

Heck those lenses are not going to work on e 35mm film camera, my bad.

Nice! I saw those articles with it on Halo and that's the perfect use-case for it in high-end productions. Hopefully word spreads and Sigma starts to get a presence in that niche. For me it's the image and the dynamic range that is just soooo tempting despite being a poor fit for my use-case (hand-held travel style in purely available light). I'm still actively looking at their firmware updates, hoping that they'll drop some more goodies in there. Otherwise maybe an FP mk2 will come and deliver some of the holes in the mk1. If it had Prores, a tilting screen and some kind of stabilised options for standard focal lengths (other than the 24-104/4) then the sheer image quality would get me to swap brands and sensor sizes, not an easy feat considering I can see 5 MFT cameras from where I'm sitting, plus a tray-full of lenses!

That's good. Would be dull if there was only one taste. @MrSMW I liked the lush colors while still providing subtle hues and the choice of grading in harsh light to go a bit over board with the highlights. Everything has a plasticity and physicality to it. But that is just what makes it sing to me. I love the look, the color palette and how colors still stay intact within this demanding grade. It reminds me of one of my favorite GH1 videos:

Yeah, but you don't have to buy any lenses or ND's, no nothing. And you just pick it up and go. That is what is so nice about camcorders. 15x Optical Zoom lens, DPAF, 10bit 4.2.2, Clog 2 and 3, killer battery life, built in lens hood, XLR's, that is pretty dope.

I hear you guys, but then truth is that video is a team based job. Even having to carry everything from the car, having a camera on a totally different and remote place, running 2/3/4 cameras simultaneously or whatever.. ..whatever you are writing against it, I can write back a few dozen pages. Just say you have a different workflow, and I respect that, but assistance is always helpful. I only do the smaller of the jobs alone these days. Of course my background is film and tv series, so I am more used to work with people, working alone is a photographer's stance, while moving images is more of a team orientated work, especially we that started with a NO leds and a NO mirrorless cameras work environment. Only to move the medium lights (have you ever seen a 6K?!) you needed 2-3 persons back then.. Anyways, let's stick to the R7, I would be willing to wait for the R7C one, as I have plenty of cameras at the moment, but how close is this camera is still largely unknown, and at what price that would be available? 3.000-3.500? I am quite puzzled at the moment. damn rumors!

I need more time to get a feel for it. We've just moved back from NZ to Ireland and have been preoccupied with finding a place to live. I mainly shoot video for corporate work that I do, very little for family stuff or for pleasure/creativity. Since we've returned I've done one major job but I used the GH5 as I didn't want any curve balls that the GH6 might throw my way. So I've really only pressed record on it a handful of times, doing a few tests. From the little I've shot with it, it seems like the battery life is really shit compared to the GH5 and a USB power source will be necessary. I don't use rigs, so I was thinking even just having one in the bag to charge up the last battery when it's been used. That might be enough to get me through a half day shoot. DR boost gives you an extra stop in the highlights. That's it. So if you think of your average GH5 scene and where it clips, then DR boost will give you one stop more info, at the cost of using heavy NDs in most situations. I've got as far as a 5 stop Tiffen solid ND to stick under my SLR Magic Vari ND II, but am considering the Nisi True Colour to replace the SLR Magic as it probably has less colour cast (which is not so important to me) and possibly slightly less polarisation (which is the real ass kicker with vari NDs, I think). I've satisfactorily matched the colour from the GH6 and GH5 in V-Log, and the image is thus practically identical for my purposes when not using DR boost. If you set the GH5 to minimum sharpness and noise reduction it's the same as the GH6 in terms of detail/sharpness/artificiality/organicness (except there may be differences in noise which I haven't examined in great detail), so the choice to use one or the other for me now comes down to functionality and ease of use. I do miss the easy 2x digital zoom for HD like on the GH5 as discussed previously in this thread. Having said all that, there are a few things that I really like a lot about the GH6: - Red frame when recording. This is a lifesaver. I've often lost shots from having gotten into the wrong record/stop button pressing cycle - Punch in while recording to check focus - Luminance spot meter. This is not for everyone but it's amazingly useful for me as another exposure tool - Usable AF using Panasonic lenses (anything I've checked on the Speedbooster is hopeless). Maybe once a year I need to do a static shoot of people walking down a corridor towards camera, chatting. The AF will do a better job than I can and give the 2 or 3 seconds of usable footage that I need. - Confidence that I can shoot in low light if needed. Previously I've never needed more than 3200 ISO (most shots are on a Tamron 24-70 2.8, which is f1.8 on a Metabones XL) but that was a bit noisy on the GH5 and on the GH6 with DR boost it's much cleaner. Ha ha! Here are some more negatives though: - The build quality doesn't feel as good as the GH5. - Some YouTuber was complaining about the silly mechanism on the memory card door and I agree with him. There was nothing wrong with the door on the GH5, but the GH6 is now finicky to open. - The stupid light streaking thing which I have seen, when I deliberately tried to recreate it. - The whole DR boost thing is voodoo. I've got noisy results in daylight using it, which worries me. I need more tests to suss this one out. And finally, here are some mildly shocking things I've learned when comparing to the GH5: - GH6 is slightly wider angle of view - GH6 gives slightly darker image - There is quite probably an overall colour cast imbalance. Almost certainly when using the same WB preset or when dialling in degrees Kelvin, and possibly also even when doing a custom WB on the same target. Need to test this more. It might just be the difference between my two units. Honestly, if you have a GH5 there is no huge reason to upgrade unless you definitely need the higher resolution, codec or frame rate specs. The output is going to look pretty much the same. It's not like the jump from the GH4 to the GH5, which added 10 bit and made V-Log usable. More like the GH5 to the GH5 II - a better camera to use but your client/audience won't see anything diferent.

Actually this film is not on the professional side. NO gaffer, NO sound guy, even NO AC😂 The full version is more like an interview and I managed to put those B roll together to make some kind of trailer. Since this is my first time playing with F3, I'm not familiar with it and did my best in post stablization, the outcome is a far behind perfect in my perspective. Next thing on my list is get a decent wireless follow focus and find a way to put F3 on a Ronin. The useless daddycam grip and that power zoom thingy is really annoying and getting in the way with my gimbal.

Except some red fringing (maybe because of the Vitrox Lens), it looks definitively good.

Also still searching for one. Unfortunately no good deal to be found (or for any video camera that matter).

Yeah, they are a great camera, and a good one to learn on, but in this day and age not too sure about stuff like that anymore. Shooting on a tripod is pretty damn limiting. We have come an amazing way in the last few years. I would have never dreamed of what we can buy for less than 5000 dollars these days.

I just saw the pricing in Australia I was expecting 3-3.5k AUD, but $4200 is kinda nuts. Sigh