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Do you know what else is outdated? Manual focus. It's so slow, man, it drives me nuts! This is 2023, not 1923! My iPhone can focus faster than any ALEXA, so what's up with that? Autofocus is true cinema and anyone telling you otherwise is just trying to keep their job as a focus puller or living in the past. Engineers are with me, let's go!

I have the 1tb model with about 4-500gb free and work on external SSDs. I’m going to clean up the internal SSD and try and get about 2/3rds free. I’ll see if that helps and so avoid spending more money on gear! (Although if work in 2024 is like 2023 then the S5x will be coming my way! 🤞🏼)

Since computers transitioned to SSDs, the memory swapping mechanisms (where they put a chunk of memory onto the drive and load another one into RAM when needed) have become very useful and quite high performance. If FCPX is running out of RAM, I wonder if your SSD is running out of swap space somehow. I'm not exactly sure how you'd check these things, but that's worth looking into. A few suggestions.. if your SSD is close to being full, try clearing some extra space and seeing if that helps performance. I'd suggest reviewing FCPX settings to see if there's a setting that limits how much swap space it is allowed to use. Do a google on FCPX RAM usage - I just did a search and there's lots of threads of people talking about it, so there might be good tips in there that might help. Also, some folks report that having files (like source media, proxies, etc) on an external drive rather than the internal drive can improve performance too. I'm not sure of your current setup but that's something to check. Good test, but it might not be enough. With all these companies building in AI to their software now I suspect that RAM requirements might gradually balloon over the next years as they integrate this stuff. This is likely to be the same with CPU/GPU as well. Resolve has quietly introduced a number of AI functions for things like NR and frame interpolation and audio processing etc, and I can tell you these things absolutely KILL your computer. I'm talking where you have it on "Faster" and you can do 24fps, on "Better" and it can do 20fps, and then "Enhanced" (which is the AI one) and it can only manage a frame every few seconds, and will crash 8 times out of 10 trying to export the project. If you can, I suggest giving yourself some head room in the specs, especially as you can't upgrade them later!

A few points.. I have no idea how much is spent, but it's enough for them to shoot everything in 1000fps if they wanted to, but they don't The thread is literally titled "24p is outdated", so translating that to be "old" and "wrong" isn't too far a stretch The firestorm is likely a reaction to the increasing popularity of 30p and 60p video, which just looks awful to many of us... perhaps a good parallel was if restaurants all over the world all started cooking every dish with Kale (or some other ingredient that many people hate) - lots of people who don't mind Kale would just say "eat somewhere else" but it would really be a bad outcome. and then the Kale Lovers Association starts a thread on their cooking forums saying that everything except Kale is crap... that is the response here. The thread didn't "degenerate" into a discussion about art, it actually elevated because creativity and art is the whole point of film-making, which is a point you seem completely impervious to hearing Yes, the goal of the industry is to make money, but in case you didn't notice, emotion is what drives sales. Newspaper headlines, clickbait video titles, social media feuds, etc - these all generate the most sales and clicks because they stimulate the human emotional system. You can think what you like about rationality and realism, but it's not how the vast majority of humans work. A great movie is one where the reaction is "I laughed, I cried", not "I found it to be sensible and factual". Movies make us feel to generate sales. To make money, movies make us feel. To make us feel, movies have to be emotive. To be emotive, they use all the tricks.. one of which, out of literally hundreds that are in use, is 24p.

I've also decided to opt out. The problem with these engineering technical I read it on the internet types and have an opinion clowns is that they are demonstrably wrong. Even when you point it out to them they seem to ignore that and move onto their next tightly held narrow idea. They post opinions as fact and only demonstrate what they do not know or understand. I've stopped bothering to point out their misinformation. I think the rest of the posters here understand where they are off on their own. Even in the last two pages they've made some really stupid claims without understanding filmmaking fundamentals. They won't even know what I'm alluding to, but it shows that they have only a little understanding of the technology. Just like one thought Titanic was shot HFR. Why bother if they don't want to truly learn or understand.

Sorry, but no matter what you think, I'm not trolling. People generally troll just to get a rise out of people and don't really have any interest in a topic. I genuinely have an interest in the artistic and technical aspects of filmmaking, and yes, I do have some strong opinions at times. So your usage of words like trolling and antics are not warranted here, at least not from my perspective. I chose the name Jedi Master because I like the Star Wars movies, not because of any felling of superiority. I'm not a professional filmmaker (far from it), so my opinions come from my own interests and research into the subject. I'm especially interested in the technical aspects because of my educational and professional background. I can speak authoritatively on subjects like signal processing, low-level hardware and firmware development, and the like, but cannot speak with professional authority on narrative filmmaking (but I can offer my opinion).

The thought of Roger in a thong is unsettling. 😆

Good point. The technology is now there for anyone to make movies. Granted, for every 10,000 movies made by the general public, probably 9,990 are not worth watching, but there's always going to be a few gems. Hollywood seems to be producing mostly derivative stuff and remakes these days with very little true innovation. This leaves lots of room for indies to fill the vacuum with something truly new and innovative. Looking back on my recent Netflix viewing history recently, indie movies have comprised about 80% of my viewing.

Widely accepted?! Oh God, where are you coming from? Are docs supposed to be "strictly journalism"??! I love these forums but I can hate them with the same intensity too for that perversion of democracy when we can see posters to write about something like they are an authority on some field when they have no clue about it, as far as they can show from their entries... I'm sorry but it is what it is : ) And if no one says anything, at a certain point becomes old school or science made when not mainstream! LOL ;- ) Nothing personal though, you look like a nice guy, just misinformed, that's it :- )

Nice one! Autofocus capabilities are increasing with every new generation of cameras. It’s getting faster and more accurate, and camera manufacturers are using AI to detect faces and eyes and to track motion. It’s come a long way since the earliest efforts back in the 1980s. What will it be like in a decade or two? Who knows, but it will be faster and more capable than what we have now, that’s for sure. Will Hollywood use it then? Probably not, but it is, and will increasingly be, helpful for people who don’t have a full crew of operators, 1st ACs, and 2nd ACs—in other words, about 90% of the users of video cameras.

Indeed. That’s why the political situation in this country is in the state it’s in now.

This is the same for me, the good stuff is all personal. I make lots of little edits as camera tests, and put a reasonable amount of time into the edit, adding music etc, to keep as a momento. So by the time I've done that the last thing I want to do is another public edit and re-do the frame-level editing and music and sound design etc. One thing I did do, which is a little besides the point but might be useful, is I found that I wanted to repeatedly reference clips from various cameras and projects, typically to try new colour grading techniques, but sometimes for other stuff too. What I did was I got organised and found the best clips from each trip / shoot and copied them onto a folder on my SSD as reference clips. Under that I had two folders for each camera, one for clips I can share in public and the other for personal stuff. Then I made a timeline with all the personal clips from each camera first, then a gap, then all the publicly sharable clips from each camera after that. Then if I have an idea for trying out some technique I can quickly pull that up, maybe take a copy of the timeline, and experiment on footage from across all the cameras I've shot on over the years. I've found it really handy since I did it actually, and I refer to it quite a bit.

Thank you for the info so basically metabons speedboster EF I can use my yashica lenses with adapter ?

I'm finishing up my transition from 7-year-old Canon DSLRs and lenses to the Nikon Z9 bodies, lenses, etc., and I should be done by 2024, so yeah, 2024 will be a "no-gear year" for me as well, unless I forgot some small items. Also, it's a good thing for business tax purposes to get it done by EOY.

I need to look, but I'd like to share some; maybe even dig some out from the digital dust in my archives. The challenge is sharing without showing too much of my personal life, which is what I usually film. Might have to go for some new stuff.

Yep, that sure is small.... If Panasonic do announce an updated small-form-factor MILC it'll be interesting what they choose. They sure have made some progress with sensor design since the GX85 / GF9 came out, so hopefully it'll be a good bump in spec 🙂 Do you have any footage to share @John Matthews?

It's a subtle thing - shooting 24p won't make something instantly cinematic or larger than life. The 'recipe' for making something look cinematic or larger than life (or any of the other dozens of ways to describe it) is that you need to do everything in a way to emphasise that experience. Everything from the writing to the acting to the lighting to the framing to the production design to the editing to the colour grading to the sound design to the mastering to the way that the finished product is viewed. They all matter, otherwise the studios would simply not pay for them. The cinematic look is a feeling you create inside the viewer by making 1000 small decisions about every aspect of the whole process.

(When you watch documentaries... Right. I get your point but) are you sure of the remainder part? ; ) I was there the first time I watched this piece, a year later, same screening room, with the filmmaker himself, talking to him (in English : D) through a physical human translator : P... perhaps *cough cough* the greatest name of the documentary cinema since Dziga Vertov: https://www.bfi.org.uk/sight-and-sound/features/artavazd-pelechian-nature-seasons-poetic-montage https://www.artforum.com/columns/artavazd-peleshian-193439/ https://www.sensesofcinema.com/2012/great-directors/artavazd-pelechian/ https://artreview.com/artavazd-pelechian-visionary-cinema-nature-seasons/ About his work and contribution, experts are used to produce content of more than 1-hour only to talk about his bigger than life "visions" of real ; )

Perhaps a more telling image:

What I've learned about Apple Silicon is that RAM on MacOS doesn't behave like OSX, Linux or Windows. MacOS always wants to use the maximum amount of RAM, regardless how much you have at your disposal. If you have 64gb, it wants to use it with nothing left over. IMO, this is the correct way to deal with RAM, but it'll give you misleading results when you open Activity Monitor with MacOS appearing to have taken all/most of the RAM and your thinking you don't have enough. Performance is the key. As I stated before, I don't do serious editing. Most of my stuff is very simple in terms of timelines. I'd also recommend more RAM if you're a pro (making money with edits) or if you have any sort of virtual machine. It could also be said that SSD's have become so fast in recent years that swap memory needs to be rethought. At some point, SSD's will be so fast that RAM doesn't matter; we are near that point, especially on Apple.

Are you sure? I'm going to have to think about that for a couple of weeks and I'll get back to you then.

I suspect that another variable in your observations will be the particular implementation of the system. One thing that frustrates me no end is how these stabilisation systems are specified. The "5 stops" rating is a measure of how much vibration is left in the image compared to how much the camera was subjected to. That's fine, but in my experience this isn't the factor that is dominant at all. My experience is that if you are able to hold a camera steady and only have a small amount of shake then they all do a good job - where the residual is practically invisible. The situation where the system isn't able to do such a great job is where the amount of camera shake is more than the mechanism is able to eliminate - i.e. the mechanism reaches the mechanical limits of its movement. These are the situations that show the limits to the mechanism, and (I suspect) one of the reasons that MFT is often reported as being better than larger sensors. This would make sense as to get the same range of stabilisation an MFT sensor would only have to move half as far as a FF sensor, and do so with a quarter the weight. So, if the systems reveal themselves at their limits, another aspect is how they behave at their limits. No manufacturer implements this in a way that absorbs all movement and then instantly transitions to having zero impact when the mechanisms boundaries are met, and this would be a terrible design choice, so there needs to be some sort of transition zone between full stabilisation and none, like a 'knee' or 'rolloff', and the characteristic of this function would likely impart some sort of 'feel' to the user I would expect. Also, each of the mechanisms is likely to be quite benign when they are operating well within their range of stabilisation, but the further towards their limits you push, they will reveal various artefacts. The combination of IBIS and ultra-wide-angle lenses is well known with the corners wobbling about like jelly on a rickshaw, but I would imagine that there are other combinations that all have their own issues with differing aesthetics too. The sad thing is that with a very rudimentary testing setup, someone that had access to all the cameras (like DXO or some other tester) would be easily able to measure these things, and give some data around them. I think it would be exceedingly useful to know that one camera was able to stabilise twice as much movement as another camera, despite both of them having the same ratio of reduction ("stops") when both are well within their functional range. There are also other aspects that bear mentioning that just aren't well known, for example that IBIS and DIS stabilises camera roll motion, but OIS does not. With all the reading I do, and with the huge emphasis that my own shooting places on stabilisation, I never knew that and learned it the hard way on a shoot of my own.

If buying a newer Mac, before buying it, load up the maximum number of things that you expect to be doing at a time and actually use the computer with all of them running for a bit. Then you can go into Activity Monitor and see how much RAM is in use. But at least that much and if possible, buy the next step up. With how fast processors are these days, there's a good chance that with the extra RAM, you will have a computer that you'll still be happily using in a few years. That and avoid the smallest SSD, as it usually has half the performance of all of the others.

I guess everyone (if not, they should ; ) appreciate @kye's entries. And I still really think (not idle words) you're being unfair with the remaining ones who have contributed along this thread. No, I don't beg for a distinct input nor become upset for your remarks on your unpleasant impression on my own. The same way I find not productive at all coming here with this level of judgment on ones over the others. It's not nice and it's not the only one case readers can read it through these pages. Japanese have a curious way to say thanks to an author than saying they've appreciated the work. To be a filmmaker, good one included, doesn't mean to entitle whoever to be an authority on aesthetics. The same to those who look like to gather camera technology expertise. The same way a thread is not a campus :- )

Random test between R5C and FX3 that just popped up in my feed:

It's a couple people, really. I disagree with you about aesthetics of 24p and about the purpose of art, but agree about AI. I disagree with some others about the nature of art requiring a human origin, but agree with them about 24p and the purpose of art. And a lot of us who disagree have had a decent discussion, between the silliness, so don't give up entirely. In my opinion @zlfan has been especially inflammatory, not addressing examples or arguments, and ending every other post with lol. And I'm not interested in @Emanuel 's statements like "art made by machines is not art. Period." I know some of it is a language barrier, but it's not a useful statement or a reasoned argument. I appreciate @kye's detailed posts with actual examples, even when I disagree. I didn't read every post, but he might be the only one other than me who has tried to explain their artistic position with any depth or examples. Saying "24p is better better because it's what we've always done" is as inane a position as "more frames is better" not because of the position taken, but because neither statement contributes to anyone's understanding. I haven't posted here in a while because I don't have time for making movies anymore. I don't know if I was included in the previous statement that there are too many engineers in this thread--I would definitely prefer to be tagged if so--but I'm one of the few people who has posted original narrative work here on the forum, back when we had a screening room section (as low budget and poorly made as my work was! I'm certainly not the best filmmaker here). As an artist, I will say that anyone who does not delve into the exact mechanics behind the emotional response that art invokes, particularly in a field that requires huge amounts of collaboration, might be doing their artistic side a disservice.

Fcpx. I know it’s ram as the computer tells me I’m out of ram! It’s true that I mainly edit 4K and 6K 10bit Movs. I can’t run Chrome or anything else if I want to edit with no hiccups. I’m finding this to be very tedious. If you are doing serious editing I’d go for 32gb minimum

Thanks @kyeand I should clarify that it was my bad for seeing all the hype around R5's IBIS vs the R5C's DIS and not taken the time to fully understand exactly what each system did/didn't do. The thing is, when lens IS first came on the scene it was very clear why it was better than no IS at all. And sure IS, IBIS and DIS at their core are all able to make a handheld static video shot feel like it's on a tripod - but where lens IS shines for my use cases is in the way it translates movement above a certain threshold to look natural/organic vs IBIS and DIS. Had I fully grasped that IBIS was never going to give me anything better than DIS when it came to that particular aspect, I would've just bought another R5C and called it a day! But ah well, again totally my bad, tho it's not like the R5 isn't a great hybrid camera in its own right.

Roger Deakins is a legendary dp of dps, a gentleman, craftsman, artist and scholar of cinematography. To insult him on a Dslm cinematography forum is a final unappetizing antic. I suggest you enjoy some fresh air and calm down. Watch T1 and 2, if you want to witness 80ies and 90ies scifi greatness. Instead you watched the lame follow ups and many youtube camera recommendation videos. You then come to our forum as an unfamiliar guest with a familiar depreciative sound of writing, suggesting nonsense, implying to consume our earth to its vital limits. I am not even interested in the question, if you have ever done anything in the field of cinematography or small passion projects or anything at all. I dont care. Please just stop your disgrace or leave like you came, this year of 2023. You are a naked keyboard user after all.

When the UK was in the EU, it used 25p too. Following the overwhelming 4% landslide will of the people advisory vote to leave the shackles of the worlds largest trading bloc that also happens to be under 30 miles away, the sovereign UK was able to make its own rules. Following Brexit, the pound devalued greatly against the dollar and Euro so that 25p was now only worth 23p. Free from the Brussels overlords and WEF puppet masters and defying economic reality, the UK therefore adopted 23p as its new standard. However, there is a strong movement to exert the virtues of Brexit by exceeding anything that those banana straightened obsessives in the EU can do by going past their paltry 25p by a further 20%. This movement is championed by an MP called Lee Anderson, deputy chairman of the Tory party, who is so identified with the quest that he is now known nationally as “30p Lee”. You should google 30p Lee as he’s a big fan of alternative facts as well.

Like @mercer has said, this is ridiculous. There's two people in this thread who are making post after post about how 24p is old and wrong etc, and then there's the entire industry spending trillions of dollars a year shooting films and who have access to any camera they want and could shoot in any frame rate they liked, and yet they select 24p. So, who is right? Two internet keyboard warriors, or the entire worlds entertainment industry? Please. We did a survey, and you didn't win this "debate".

I’d like to call a halt to buying gear but I’m seriously thinking about selling my Lumix S5 and getting an S5X to go with my S5Mk2. The user experience with the Mk2 is so much better than the Mk1. It would only mean spending 1000€. That and a Sigma 16-28 f2.8 and the Rode Wireless Pro. Oh, and sell my Macbook Pro 16” M1 Pro with 16gb ram as I made a big mistake there. 16gb ram is totally inadequate. I need 32gb at least. Expensive mistake. So…fuck. That’s a lot of money😵‍💫

Many in France believe that too.