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What I'd like to see is a tiny OLED viewfinder that would connect with HDMI and 12volt DC. There are a few nice EVFs that connect to proprietary hot shoes such as the Canon EVF-DC2, FUJIFILM EVF-GFX, Sigma EVF-11, Sony FDA-EVM1K, etc. however they aren't able to be used with other cameras. I'd like to see something like this, or an adaptor from the hot shoe connectors to HDMI and D-tap. Then if you have a cinema camera you're not left with only huge EVFs (which are really just small monitors with a loupe.) The one that seems to have this potential is the Sigma EVF-11. In pictures it shows what looks like a USB-C plug, two pins, then what might be a micro-HDMI. It might be possible for there to be an adaptor to use this.

Yup; body, grip and lens, all used from MPB!

I think I gonna try out some 3 x 1/3" CCD magic some time with a Panasonic HPX 171 or 151, both writing to cards, p2 cards and 8bit 422 100mbit DvcproHD the former, sd and 8bit 420 25mbit Avchd the latter. They would function as a Dvx100 Andromeda substitute:) @Matt Kieley Both are sporting less than perfect 1080p resolution and higher framerates at 50/60p in 720p or 1080i. For best image quality of the bunch it would be a HPX250 with perfect 1080p even at 50/60p, also sporting a 3 x 1/3" sensor design plus 10bit 100mbit 422. No CCD magic though. 3 x CCD and perfect HD with high bit rates comes in big shoulder cameras only. But then some 2/3" calibers. And a Varicam among them. Would like to find out which one is the smallest of these biggies. This thread has the potential for a perfect nerd cave. Great place to be. 🙂

I thought about starting a new thread, but there is already so much theory packed into this old discussion that I decided to revive it and see if the last nine years of camera releases might add to the discussion -- which always seems to bring up some high emotions (for those of you who feel an eye roll coming on, feel free to write me off as not knowing what I am talking about and move along). I'm coming at it from a deeply subjective standpoint. I always try to find wide shots with people walking in them as my baseline. More cameras than not look "off" to me. With that out of the way, which cameras produce your favorite 24p motion in 2024? My favorites are all older cameras: Motion Picture Film - The original and best. It pulls me in and almost puts me in a trance-like state. Red One MX - Honestly, the best digital motion I've seen. It looks better to me than any newer Red or frankly, anything from Arri. Ikonoskop A-Cam Dii and Digital Bolex D16 - Really nice. And some sleepers too: Canon EOS-M with Magic Lantern - It just looks right to me. Much better than my C70. Panasonic GH1 - Odd, I know. But yes. And it looks slightly better to me than the GH2.

After owning a variety of consumer/prosumer camcorders (starting with VHS-C in 1995, then several DV then HDV), I skipped DVD-based ones and decided that the memory-card based ones (that I could afford) were getting too small and light to hand-hold with reasonable stability. Also viewfinders were becoming rare other than on the higher-end camcorders. Having noticed that reasonable video was starting to appear as a feature in 'photo' cameras, I tried a Pana TZ7/ZS3 compact, then a Sony HX9V compact and Pana FZ100 superzoom. Decided that I preferred the form-factor/handling so moved on to a Pana G3 MILC - nice and compact, good to hold, with a decent viewfinder, video, audio and stills. Upgraded after a while to a G6 with 14-140mm lens (probably my all-time favourite lens) - much larger sensor than any consumer camcorder but still a fairly compact setup for something with a 10:1 zoom lens. As I'm very much a hybrid shooter, I prefer the m43 'compact MILC' form-factor (and the IBIS). The only 'icing on the cake' that I'd like is a quality power-zoom lens with a decent range - the (now obsolete) Oly 12-50 is about as close as m43 has ever got to that. So no, I wouldn't buy a 'camcorder' form-factor camera again. (When I look at some of my old VHS-C or DV footage, it just reminds me of how far consumer/prosumer video capture has improved over time...from less-than-SD resolution, interlaced, noisy, smudgy video to pristine 50p/60p UHD from a pocket-sized camera - wow!)

Ha, considered that very thing recently, ie, having that camcorder in a purely static role, but then came to the conclusion, I may as well stick with my S1H with battery grip (3+ hours so far more than my needs) and with the 70-200mm f4 on it. Massive overkill for I need it to do, which is essentially ceremonies & speeches, but based on trade in and then purchase of a used camcorder, makes no sense, so sticking with the static S1H paired with roaming S5ii approach for my video needs. For 2024 anyway. We'll see at the end of the season as there are various other options I might consider going forward...

Just thinking about this more, and I recall that testing the GoPro on that little outing was actually really illuminating. I have always shot video in uncontrolled conditions, so never seriously studied coverage or blocking or sequences etc. What I found was: I shot everything I could see (which was really fun because I didn't have to wait for the camera) Not being able to see (the GoPro I had didn't have a screen) eliminated all aspects of chimping Pulling everything into the edit, I realised that I had so many different options, and make it a more whimsical edit with little sequences of fast-cuts like when getting seated at the cafe, and then again for standing up and walking out The success of those fast-cut transitions made me realise the value in having lots of shots to cut up, but also made me realise things like you can cut faster if you keep the compositions similar between shots so that the subject doesn't move, etc I made several videos with it, essentially going through a learning process each time, understanding more about how you can push the edit pretty hard without it seeming odd, realising where the barriers were in the edit and how I might solve them when shooting, shooting with that in mind, pushing further in the edit, etc I highly recommend shooting a few test videos like this, literally of anything, just to get a sense of the possibilities. Also, it's good to specifically test: How long it takes from hitting the button to the first frame, and how much it chops the ends off clips (the clip may end before you hit the stop button) How far off-centre you can put a subject before the wide-angle lens starts becoming unflattering or straight-up odd How active you can be in shooting and how much motion that creates in the frame (knowing you can run and get usable footage for example might open up possibilities) How far you can go in low-light before it's no good (for example, it might be ok indoors during the day in rooms with windows but not ok if there aren't any, etc) You probably know all this, but in case you don't, or the lurkers don't, this stuff is invaluable. Unfortunately, despite me shooting little tests quite frequently, I always learn things on trips that I wish I'd learned before and come away basically thinking I've screwed up each one.

Definitely agree about the bulk of an external monitor. I've been bouncing between my OG BMPCC (P2K) and BMMCC (M2K!) for years now, and one of the biggest challenges of the M2K is how large the screen makes the rig, even though I have the Ikan 3.5" monitor: it requires a separate battery the mounting isn't slimline at all and so the monitor is quite far from a camera (compared to a flip or tilt screen) the HDMI cable takes it a very large step into "we are the Borg" territory I've used camcorders in the past, and also have the XC10 which is a camcorder in all but body-design, but my GX85 + 12-35/2.8 setup is what I use as my main camera now and I use it like a camcorder, so I get most of the benefits: It looks like a little P&S (because it is) so I invoke the dorky Dad vibe I'm planning to also get the 14-140mm F3.5-5.6 lens to pair with it which will give it a similar all-in-one lens The Dual IS gives it equivalent levels of stabilisation It's limited to 8-bit 709 style images, but these look pretty good in reality, so has a similar limitation but also strength in that regard too It lets me stop thinking about the camera and start thinking about what is in front of it

I shoot family travel videos, where you shoot what is happening and you have to shoot quickly to keep up, and I ran into the issue that I wasn't capturing establishing shots or getting any shots of moving between locations, so in the footage we'd just sort of teleport from one location to the next, starting with when we'd gotten into the venue and I could then take out the 'big camera' and start shooting again. I resolved to try and get a setup that I could shoot with while we were getting in and out of vehicles, walking to and from venues, buying tickets on entry, etc. I had an old GoPro and did a test of shooting a random outing when my wife and I went to get coffee by the beach. Predictably, I found that it was super easy and fast to shoot while walking down stairs, thinking about other things like navigating and reading signs, getting selfies, etc. What I didn't expect was that it was actually really easy and fun to get a large variety of shots too. High-angles, low-angles, detail shots (while remembering the fixed focus has a minimum distance) etc, and these were both fun to shoot and super useful in the edit. I personally like to shoot when I'm out doing things, I find it adds to the experience both in terms of giving me a toy to play with and a challenge of finding creative compositions but also training me to really look at the world and appreciate the beauty of everyday things. Now I have mostly replaced that role with my phone or a smaller camera like my GX85, but if I could only shoot something with an action camera then I think it's a really useful tool to make you focus on the creative aspects of film-making like subject and composition and movement and variety and sequences and editing style and sound design etc, rather than the technicalities of the image.

I've been saying this for years. The DVX100 had the best ergonomics/size of any camera I've ever owned and was a joy to shoot. And it had a global shutter.

I loved old camcorder ergonomics. Large battery on the back, flip out screen on the side, nice slot for your hand on the right. The Sony NEXVG900 was a neat concept, but I guess it didn't sell because it was a one off.

That was super-cool! Yes. the grade was too green and would have been way better with "sunny look" to it, but the shots themselves were very nice; clearly filmed by someone with a decent eye. I saw one for about 250 euros. Detail is close to 4k and seemingly shoots above its weight.

Thanks a lot for the feedback!

It will depend on the processing in-camera. Linear is Linear, so no dramas there, but getting the 3x3 matrix right to define the primaries requires a calibrated setup, and might be non-linear or some other thing normally inside the camera and hidden from us. Don't the BM cameras have a defined gamma and colour space? Wouldn't they be BM Film Gen 1?