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I went to Japan and have the loaner S9 from Panasonic. I told them I am not in the camera review space like I used to be, and they still were kind enough to invite me. I plan on making a few videos with it, but haven't posted anything since the embargo because I am so unsure what to say. It seems everyone has already made a "First Look" video and many others have tried to apologize for accepting the free trip and camera. I don't feel bad for accepting the trip as I'm sure anyone else here would do also. I think all the conversation around this is generally healthy for our industry and why I personally took a step back from it all over the last two years after quitting Indy Mogul. Feel free to ask me anything you want. I promise to be honest.

This is hilarious. Some Moral High Ground Fable was Woven by some guy named Gerald, whose sulking cause he didn't get invited to a launch party, and people have started bashing the whole world. This is ludicrous. If he doesn't get invited to the Academy Awards next year, he'll probably have an absolute meltdown.

All good, though I personally would love to see some 5D3 prowess and some Komodo in the wild:) Now, how we gonna start it anyway?:)

Curtis posted this and I think it's a much more measured view on what is at play when it comes to the current YouTube landscape and reviews. He spent the last 10 weeks making videos on only things he paid for himself and this is his thoughts on it. It was done based on his own thoughts and curiosity, not out of bitterness because he wasn't invited on a trip. As far as YouTubers go I feel Curtis is one of the more transparent ones and is overall very thoughtful.

I may have spoken too soon. I went back to play around with the image and it turns out that the noise is easily dealt with in MLV App. I think the 5Diii creates a more characterful and interesting image than the C70 (and maybe even the Scarlet-X). Even if the image was exactly the same, it's smaller than a cinema camera, comfortable in the hand, weather-sealed, shoots full frame 14bit raw video, won't overheat, won't attract as much attention, and can be easily replaced at a low cost if necessary. What other camera has those characteristics? The only thing it doesn't do is shoot 4K with full real-time preview. So maybe it still represents a pretty unique value proposition 12 years on!

Hopefully we remained as true as can be here. We tried to share our honest thoughts. Neither one of us would buy this camera with our own money at the moment either. It's too expensive for a fun camera for us. But for some people it may be worth it

i love being a youtuber. which is why i left Indy Mogul. i have no desire to make movies. i love YouTube and have a passion for cameras and tech

I still have my OG pocket from the great sale of 2014!

Nope, I think that it is not the intended use - probably is another reviewer who don't read the manual. If the user wants to post the image / video ASAP, it should put the app on the mode that it automatically downloads from the camera every still /video that was taken. It is not a novelty, my X-S20 have this option, and I think that other manufacturers have this option in their apps to. Panasonic just thought a bit more about the process - hence a optimized use of 5ghz wifi (the download times looks faster than usual) and the new 50mbps codec for a fast transfer to the phone. You leave the phone on your pocket, take you shots, and when you finish the pcitures / video are already on you phone (on almost completed), you upload it to social media in the app, applying (or not) some of the luts with an optimized editor. I'm not this kind of user, but looks like a much better workflow than usual.

Yeah I love this. Nailed it

I don't know about the Komodo-X, so maybe some of these considerations are different, but the sorts of things I was thinking about were: Long startup times Poor non-native ISO performance Lower resolution outputs crop into the sensor, so if you want to shoot in anything less than 871K then all of a sudden your whole lens collection has shifted FOVs, and your 6K RAW files are ridiculous if you're shooting for socials which are 1080p max and people are watching on their phones Higher frame rates are only available in lower resolutions, so a FPS change is now a lens change, which is a DOF change, and might be an exposure change, which combined with poor-non-native ISO performance is a lighting change...... These probably aren't a big deal for anyone who already use cinema cameras, but lots of these folks saving up for years to finally buy a RED came from the high-end cameras of the time like GH5, C70, 1DXii, etc, which are completely different beasts to use. So it's really a cinema-camera vs video-camera type of thing, and lots of people aren't shooting in controlled situations either so the struggle is real.

great questions! let me ask you this hypothetical, if you got an email that said "we'd like to fly you out to Japan all expenses paid and let you play with a new unreleased camera with a bunch of your friends for a week" would you accept? i even told LUMIX i am not in the niche like i used to be when i did Kinotika and Indy Mogul and they still wanted me there! As for making money off views, I actually made a video that got more views than most the other people who were at the S5 II release last year. I made $100. I didn't make the video to even make money. I made it for fun. Because I thought it was an interesting story to tell about Panasonic finally adding phase detect to their cameras.

Just watched the Gerald piece. Brands have been pursuing the same format for launches on social media for many years, but maybe they have now jumped the shark. It's becoming easier and easier to see who is in the preferred circle of manufacturer mouthpieces and who isn't, and therefore what's not objective and what is just a sales pitch and straight forward shilling. It has undermined the internet and social media so much, that it's starting to become a turn off for even the most unassuming consumers and customers. We on this forum of course spotted it coming a mile ago, and I think we know how to not get sucked into the hype and just focus on the objective info that comes out of these videos.... although to be honest, usually most of that fits on the back of an envelope even after a 20 minute viewing session. I've been to a few launches myself and it does absolutely on a personal level make it very uncomfortable and embarrassing to come back home afterwards and then be truly critical to an audience of thousands, it feels like kicking a lot of nice camera company people in the teeth. You will lose that access as a journalist (as I have). You might even be bullied into a non-disparagement agreement as was the case with me and a certain Mr Jannard at RED or made persona-non-grata without future access to pre-release hardware as was the case with Sony and now also Panasonic as well. The question for me with Gerald is whether he is truly concerned about any of this, or whether he is being hypocritical. I am assuming the latter given the very close relationship he has maintained with nearly all the major PR agencies and camera manufacturers in our industry for years without ever raising these kinds of conflict of interest and objectivity issues until many years later, i.e. now, and even then, purely because he's butt hurt about not being invited on a fancy trip to Tokyo. On the other hand, props to Gerald for being one of the few Canadian YouTubers who aren't born salesmen / Camera store duo *cough cough*. It makes perfect sense for the camera manufacturers of course to nurture the next generation of salesman by bringing them to the fore on YouTube, rather than nurturing filmmakers, real reviewers and journalists who can say troublesome things like me. Some of the key moments for me... "Why now, why Lumix launch"... I think it's because he wasn't invited. Otherwise, he would have done a video like this about 8 years ago after a Sony launch or a Canon launch. Because the same thing has been going on since about 2012 and the ramp up in YouTube & social media hype of consumer brands. "I'm just sitting at home reading the reviews"... This is him painting himself as a casual observer, and therefore an objective one. "Didn't get invited to the S5 II launch in Japan, didn't get invited to S9 launch, because I was critical of GH6"... Exactly, but had he been invited to those - would he still be putting his superman cape on and making a video like this? Nope. Because in the end he has always been 100% happy to benefit from early access and press trips when it suited him, the sanctimonious bastard. Sorry... not very polite of me, but then I aint Canadian.

You cover the loss of earnings like you would for any vacation, except you generate revenue from this trip through sponsors and ad revenue based on the content you make from it. I've traveled all over the United States but I had virtually no time to actually enjoy it. There are cities I've been to literally four dozen times that I've seen very little of, because I had MAYBE 2 or 3 hours of leisure time if I was lucky and the rest were 12+ hour days in a venue doing production set up and filming. Most of my time not at work was spent in a car, hotel, or airport. I guarantee these YouTubers got more time to check out Japan during one of these trips than I got to check out Philly, Chicago, Los Angeles, etc. in the dozens of times each that I was paid to be there to work. Here is an example of a work trip I did regularly: Early flight out of Burlington to Chicago on Friday. Land, get picked up, and drive immediately to the venue for 10AM, only stopping to get food. Spend the day setting up. Event starts at 7PM. Film the event (4 hours or so). Tear down. Leave venue around 1AM. Get food. Drive to Detroit. Go to hotel and sleep a few hours. Go to the venue for 10AM, only stopping to get food. Spend the day setting up. Event starts at 7PM. Film the event (4 hours or so.) Tear down. Get food, then drive to airport for early flight back to Burlington. Get home late Sunday. Edit the events. Then repeat the entire process the next weekend. None of those trips afforded me the opportunity to check out local markets, bars, or watch sunsets surrounded by postcard scenery while enjoying engaging conversations with my colleagues. 😉

I enjoyed his pivot to ghosts

I would never claim to have any sort of Redcode "prowess." With the K-X, just like most of my other cameras, I'm kind of a hack. 😉

I would be happy to have a GH5 II image and codecs in a LX or GX camera. Fun fact, a S16 width variante of the G9II sensor with 4 to 3 aspect ratio would still sport more than 12 MP and more slightly more than 4096 px width. A LX100 body with the lens mechanism of the LX10 would be perfect for that and the monitor of the LX10 or GX80. Perfectly dreaming.:)

It helps standardise and unify the content, so for example Tokyo is one of the most photogenic places on the planet... That breathtaking beauty is going to be plastered all over the launch footage and test shots on the day the embargo lifts. It's why Canon took their bros to Hawaii, and not a carpark in Slough. Couple of days on a trip you can tell a lot about a camera, but it usually isn't final firmware and you can't compare very much to rival models. Although I did once bring my Leica SL to the Panasonic S1 launch 🙂 So you're right that you need longer to really get a long term insight into whether it's worth a serious investment and how it compares to a myriad of other options. So what usually comes out on YouTube is a range of quite glossy stuff that shows off the camera in the best light possible, in some of the most aesthetic situations. This has replaced the Vimeo tests of old where you had a filmmaker and model, or perhaps a videographer and a duck in the pond. And herein lies the marketing.

One thing about these YT'ers and their marketing, they are actually offering looks at interesting imaging products, which does make things a bit of grey line in some legitimate film production. For instance, I just convinced a neophyte documentarian I'm working with to stop invading the space of his subjects with his "A Crew" Which is him, his cinematographer with a RED and all the rigging gak-gak that goes with it, a sound guy with boom pole and harnessed multi-mixer, an RF video village, and assistant producer. Trying to parachute in and get useful naturalistic footage of a person ON A HALF DAY SHOOT with that nonsense? C'mon. By the time they're in and out they maybe put in the can only about 30 minutes of footage, it's all stagey as hell, and if there's 10 seconds that's compelling it's a minor miracle...they got lucky with what the subject's personality delivered, not with the process of their craft. RED gear and crews are built for certain situations. Docs of a certain type? I say nope. No, just allow a savvy and talented 1 man band w/a mirrorless to go into the situation and keep it chill. Trade the marginally and slightly more advanced IQ for BETTER F'IN FOOTAGE. If an image looks better, but is inauthentic, what have you accomplished? Not much. The easiest path to some sort of normalcy in cinema veriti doc filming is to do one's best to mitigate the disruption of that normalcy. Boys and their toys. Always thinking that more is better.

And I can't believe that with my GH5 I can't do what the gopros have been doing for years which is to download the videos in lightweight format to my phone immediately to get a preview. This would be a very useful thing on a boat with the housing still wet since I can turn on the wifi from the underwater housing.

My two cents: Sitll not saw the Gerald's video, but it not surprised me. The writing was on the wall that he was kinda pivoting - much less gear reviews, trying to make a talk show vibe, and making a series going to Youtuber's studios and talking about their locations and processes. Looks like he wants to be kind of the Rick Beato of video recording (in fact, he even gone to Rick's studio 🙂) All this state of Youtube reviewers was clear for everyone that have a little bit of intelligence (looks like a minority, unfortunately). The signs were mounting each year. First, now all the reviews are "with a pre-production unit", hence "you can't go in deeper detail, but we will review it when a full production unit is available". In 70% of the cases, the full prouction unit test never appears, and the deeper test never occurs. In fact, a lot of reviewers never test the camera again after huge firmware updates - baffles my that camera companies did not see that as a problem, since most of the reviews stayed shown forever with problems that were solved after the release... The secons sign that I noted was in the X-S20 launch (a camera that I own and like, that it is not anti-Fuji fanboy here) - some of the most noted Fuji reviewers had not received loan units, and a LOT of smaller channels that I've never heard before received it. When a Fuji channel it 170k subscribers do not got an unit, but a channel with 1k got it (yes, this was the case), you know that something is strange. Same feeling was with the S9 - was the 1st camera that EVERY channel that I follow was invited, with no exceptions, even some very small ones that I like that were NEVER invited for anything. And for these (as I suspect also in the X-S20) the desire to stay on the loop probably makes them to do not be much critical. And I kinda understand - people trying to make a living on Youtube (not a much good choice nowadays) got a chance and wants to grab it. This is the state now, and everyone is entitled to an opinon. Could be much worse - a lot of big Youtubers raves about that piece of scam that is Luminar, for instance.

Yes. About 60 seconds, I'd say... but my batteries last 2-3 hours so while I'm shooting, I just leave the camera on. If shooting raw, the camera is fully ISO invariant (that is to say, capture is at native resolution and ISO is raw file metadata). I haven't shot anything in ProRes to comment otherwise. I'd be a little surprised, though, given that the display output looks fine. Yes. Though you could mitigate this by shooting in the lower quality 6k modes which make the files substantially smaller. Disks are pretty cheap these days so I'm not too concerned. I set the camera to MQ (170MB/s) when I got it and unless shooting some SFX thing, I wouldn't anticipate ever changing it. LQ is around 110MB/s and ELQ is about 50-60MB/s, I think. Also yes. Though it depends on your definition of "higher," I suppose. Full resolution 6k can go up to 80fps. 5k is only a slight crop and can do 96. But if you need 120, 4k is a noticeable crop - and while I haven't used 240fps at 2k, that's a pretty huge crop. If you make frequent use of frame rates > 96 fps and don't want to work with a crop, it's definitely not the best choice you could make. Other things worth mentioning that don't bug me much yet, but might bug you: Manufacturer recommends black shading sensor any time there's a ~20 degree (Fahrenheit, guess that'd be about 11C) shift in temperature which could be annoying if moving in and out of buildings on a hot day, for instance. On the K-X, it takes about a minute. I think the OG Komodo is a bit slower and older Reds would take more than 15 minutes IIRC. Not a lot of buttons on the body for quick settings changes Wifi with the included antenna is hot garbage so monitoring by phone/iPad isn't usable. After swapping to a better antenna, I'd describe it as "tolerable" if not using the phone as a wireless monitor, there's no HDMI - just SDI. If you want 4k for crisp punch-in focus confirmation, that means 12g sdi... so if you don't want to spend $1k+ on a monitor, you'll be using a Video Assist 12g. Though the nice thing about that is that you can use the VA for a 4K ProRes backup of what you're shooting.

He makes an interesting point on watching review as a form of validation. I have to admit I'm guilty of this, but not necessarily for "validation". My squirrel gear head is constantly looking for new stuff and now, in order to stop the beast inside of me, I watch reviews of old stuff that I've already purchased. Basically, they all say the same thing- "what a great product" and "you shouldn't look any further!" So, I guess ultra positive review serve a purpose after all.

Yeah, I suspect that a lot of people get a rude shock when their fantasy doesn't mean reality. And the release of the Komodo & Raven, plus the general march of time (which has made older RED DSMC1 bodies very affordable), has pushed a lot of REDs into the reach of almost "affordability" for many indie enthusiasts / semi pros / aspiring pros. We'll perhaps see the same happen with ARRI as, especially if an ARRI Mini can drop under US$10K in the next couple of years (which maaaybe it might, especially if the recession drags itself out for that entire length of time). What is your current "fun camera"? In some hypothetical world where you lost everything, but insurance pays you out, so you can start out again from scratch rebuying whatever, then what "fun camera" would you get?

Of course! I'm stoked this conversation is happening. We need to all be aware of how it all works and the creators should always be upfront and honest about their involvement with whatever company they are talking about. Which is why I have been patient on making my personal video and we just posted a podcast sharing our thoughts. I don't think YouTubers should race to get a video out and not be thoughtful about their content. A first look video is fine and I certainly played that game for years, but now I feel finding an interesting angle or an interesting idea about a camera or piece of tech is way more creative and ultimately more authentic. But if a creator can truly be honest about the trips, free loaner gear etc... and is still able to be objective somehow... is that good? Is there a way you can watch a video about a camera that was given to someone as a loaner and take away any value at all? If not, then some creators should consider taking one for the team and denying the free trips and free loaners. A hard ask when the day to day life of a YouTuber is extremely grinding, late nights, ups and downs financially, and then a company says "hey you wanna go on a trip with all your friends for free?"

Actually, @mercer has recently become acquainted with a camcorder that has rather captured his attention....

I think most of us are kind of hacks - it's like Richard Hammond once said while tearing around the test track in some hypercar "this car is so much faster than me!". I've come to realise that almost all of the magic in a final edit gets there by flowing from the people through the tools to the footage. This is why I don't feel creatively limited by my GX85. I'd say that for 50% (or 80% or 95%) of the people on the planet if they were shooting on a GX85 then the limitation on the creativity would still be on the operator and not on the camera.

Nice of him to spill the beans after only 10 years of benefiting personally from such beans. What's next... A pivot to reviewing Macs?

These guys get flown to awesome locations to review cameras. They use the video as a prop to put sponsored ads But we also have no real alternative to learn and see cameras so we just have to accept it and move on. They need to make a living too and this is their chosen route.

You’d have to question the business wisdom of such a trip that took out at least 7-8 days out of working time when you factor in prep, travel and jet lag recovery. Yes the travel, accommodation and likely some sort of PD was involved but without an actual fee, how is the loss of earnings for those days covered ? Even if you factored in the “long term” loan of the camera being so long term that they allow you to sell it then a $1000 spread over 7 days isn’t much of a day rate. I don’t think the argument of exposure and views compensating holds up either. The gold rush era of making YouTube camera videos and becoming relatively rich is in the rear view mirror now. Thats why so many of them are pivoting to other areas. The days of these get rich quick Beverley Shillbillies will hopefully be a thing of the past pretty soon.

Plus there is this thing that ‘no publicity is bad publicity’…and whilst I am not sure I entirely agree with that sentiment, in this case it has probably raised more awareness of the S9 than there might otherwise have been. I didn’t really care about the release initially but since the controversy, have looked a little deeper (more at the camera than the shenanigans BTS) and could make a case for it in my lineup. Not a strong enough case at this time, but that otherwise I would not have bothered with had their not been the controversy. Also, the CC’s can make ‘reaction’ videos 🤪

I went for a walk with my og Bmpcc yesterday, mounted with a 25mm lens. Handheld shooting without rigging was quiete a challenge and a lot of fun. Color response in grading is still impressive. I imagine the 5D3 to be on par with it. In that case I would prefer it over any Sony or Pana dslm in regards of sheer beauty under natural light or 5600K fixtures. S1 and S1H impressed me in lit scenarios though under tungsten btw. I bought a 5D3 1.5 years ago and it's waiting for party time.

The funny thing about all of this for me is that until now, I always thought and said that Lumix didn’t do enough marketing of this nature. This time they seem to have invited every CC out there…and it’s all got a bit controversial. Upon reflection, the S9 although perhaps a little overpriced, looks a decent enough thing…for it’s market. Whether this current shitstorm will make any difference in regard to YouTube marketeers remains to be seen, but probably not so more storm in a teacup probably.

It's all branding and marketing, including this video from Gerald. I'm surprised so many people buy into it. Look, the dude humble bragged about how he takes these trips and then just hangs out instead of filming anything, but he gets most passionate when he starts talking about how he wasn't invited on the last Japan trip for the Lumix S5II and now this trip, with Lumix directly telling him that they just didn't think he'd like the camera. Most of the rest of his video was just acknowledging what we've all been saying for years and what Gerald himself has benefited/profited from, he just thinks it's an ethical problem because he's no longer on the list of people Lumix wants to play nice with. There's absolutely truth in what he is saying, but let's be clear: if Gerald cared about ethical camera reviews he'd still be getting cameras from a local camera shop to test instead of having relationships with these companies. If he'd still kept doing that he'd never had been able to make a living doing YouTube though. Did he really ever think these companies viewed him as anything other than a mark they could exploit to market their products to people or was he just happy to be part of the game until other companies not named Sony decided to allocate their marketing resources to other reviewers? Today it's easy to put Panasonic on blast. He sees the writing on the wall. He really has nothing to lose, his channel has predominantly been Sony focused for the last several years anyway and, honestly, it wouldn't shock me if this marks a change in his channel in general as the YouTube camera reviewer bubble seems to have burst or bottomed out for a lot of people. Views are down even on his Sony videos. If nothing else he has seemingly successfully branded himself as the lone moral voice in the camera/gear space, as far as YouTube is concerned.

I don't think the Panasonic S9 pulls anywhere near the shenanigans that Canon pulled on the R5 "overheating". That was an ultimate low for the cripple hammer. I do hear reports of reviewers saying the S9 can successively restart recording up to 6 times. If that it so, just put the usual 30 minute limit on it and a 2-minute wait to restart.

With regard to the objectivity and competence of these “reviewers”, I thought we’d put that to bed on here a few years ago. Never forget the absolute pile on suffered by @Andrew Reid for raising the blatant shenanigans that Canon were up to and the lengths that we both had to go to in proving it definitively. Did any of these clowns apologise ? No, they just made follow up videos about it to generate more clicks ! Oh but jokes about kittens right ?

Of course... duh! *slaps own forehead* 🙂 Interesting about the cage manufacturers doing the leaking. I guess they'd be the ones with the most detailed knowledge of the cameras too - considering that they'd be required to receive accurate dimensions and potentially would also get the size requirements of the lenses too so they'd be able to figure out the lens configuration and sensor size. I think it's a straight up content creators camera. Gerald said he thinks that it was Panasonic trying to get some of that Fuji money after the success of the X100 selling out, and that the inclusion of all the more advanced features was simply a case of taking the S5ii package and not paying engineers to disable features when they can just release the new camera with those features and not pay anyone to remove them. Millennials and GenZ are running around with vintage point-and-shoot cameras and want film presets now, despite their smartphone being technically better in practically every way. The fact that us crotchety old camera nerds don't know what the hell they want isn't surprising, especially considering I'm pretty sure they don't know what they want either! Anyone who has ever looked at the fashion industry will know that nothing makes sense, lots of things look completely stupid, yet there is a rabid market for it and you can make squillions of dollars if you can get it right.

You're right. He always tries to be "the guy" for camera reviews, the one who's going to tell how things really are and "should you get it". I'd probably agree that many of his conclusions are valid, but it cannot be understated he NEVER actually shares ANY footage as a creator. It's almost like he can talk forever about a language, but never really speaks it. As a language teacher myself, I know there are many teachers who are guilty of this (if that makes sense).

This was a confusing watch, honestly. He started out by saying viewers put too much value in the trips, yet he is clearly irked that he has been snubbed by Panasonic and not brought on them. 99% of his viewers will never be flown to an exotic location, put up in a nice hotel, and otherwise have the red carpet rolled out for them. That he tries to act like they aren't a big deal (despite his clearly being irked at being left out) shows how much of a disconnect there is between people like him and the rest of us. I don't doubt that he's being honest about Lumix BUT I've pointed out in the past on here how biased Gerald's titles are when it's a Sony camera versus when it's other brands. Examples: As a consumer I don't like it, but if I'm looking at it as the marketing person for these other camera brands and I saw how much of a shill he has become for Sony (and he can argue all he wants that he's the most critical of Sony out of every other company he reviews, it isn't true) I'd probably not bend over backwards for him either. His broader message about being disposable to these companies I agree with, but he played the game, helped create the beast, and still, to an extent, continues to be a part of the problem.

Steve Huff (Hifi Huff on YouTube) had spoken quite a bit about some of the same topics that Gerald Undone is speaking about, but unfortunately the video is now erased from YouTube, which sucks. EOSHD had another thread on this topic.

Vistek just dropped a pretty comprehensive video about how to test lenses, but it includes a bunch of really interesting stuff, ranging from what the various aberrations are, how to test for them, how to see them in the test images, and a range of other factors. He drew heavily from the incredible book The Cine Lens Manual: The Definitive Filmmaker's Guide to Cinema Lenses which is basically the new reference for lenses and has a whopping 836 pages and seems to have come down in price to only $175 or so (it was a lot more previously!)

Good decision! Think your going to love it. It feels like quality in the hands which adds to the experience. Let us know how you get on.