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I think Lumix is damned if they do, damned if they don't. I think we only have to look back to the GH6 to see why they may be holding back. Just months after releasing it they then released the G9 II with PDAF. Within a year they'd go on to release a GH7 with PDAF. With hindsight it feels as though the GH6 was rushed out. I think Panasonic might be in a similar situation with their higher end offerings. I hope that Lumix works towards improving their marketing and becoming more transparent with the photo/video community. When you're that far behind the other companies there really isn't a reason not to be. Even if you cannot be specific, letting it be known that you're not abandoning higher end users would probably help.

TBH I think they should've done a Sony and released an intermediate model S1HX - Basically an S1H with the PDAF sensor. And updated firmware etc. even that would have been enough for most people, EASY MONEY!

How can we not think they are leftovers? That is why I continue to say that this announcement is pure commercial suicide. - Hey, we have 5,000 electronic S5s and S5 shells in stock. What are we going to do with them? - Why don't we write a firmware upgrade for the Lidar and resell them? - great idea! They would have been better off throwing them to the recycling bin.

Wow. It sounds like everyone is giving up on Panasonic. Not me. I get the disappointment—no S1H II—but you still have to hand it to them for taking a different path of fewer camera updates and more firmware updates. Granted, they've seemingly screwed the pooch on two successive events: the S9 and the S9 firmware update. It seems this was mainly an attempt at a re-release of the S9, responding to the many complaints about it. Given the hardware they put in it, I think it's successful. No, it doesn’t have an EVF, mechanical shutter, or hot shoe, but they did address other issues. The new 18-40mm lens isn’t exactly God’s gift to lenses, but it's a good start to the lineup. Now, we need to see smaller primes for it to make some sense. Personally, I won’t leave Panasonic now, nor will I entertain the idea for some time. I don’t see the point in chasing the latest and greatest without any serious need for the features they offer, and I intend to reward the company for continuing to make improvements. Sony offers firmware—it’s called a 'new camera.' Canon offers firmware when people complain enough. Nikon releases cameras and apparently forgets to check if they work as intended. Fuji used to issue major firmware updates, but now they just mess up their cameras. Panasonic is the only one giving a slow, methodical release schedule. Sure, their cameras don’t always hit home and their marketing is wacky, but I don’t see the snafus of other companies. I imagine they are proud of the cameras they release, and they’re probably equally proud of the cameras they haven’t released due to not being ready.

1. The pixel-level read node design is similar to IMX610, only the implementation is different and dictates that it has fast conventional read speeds. 2. The physical pixels are 49 megapixels and the entire sensor is natively designed to be 49 megapixels, reusing the 4.2um BSI pixel design and using both analogue binning and digital binning together to achieve a 12 megapixel sensor. 3. IMX510 disables the all-pixel readout mode, so there is no possibility of an all-pixel readout, and naturally it cannot achieve 2x2 OCL AF, which is the biggest difference between it and IMX472. 4. Dividing IMX510's logical pixel into four physical pixels. The readout is achieved using 1:2 analogue binning before PGA and digital binning after ADC. The specifics are: A. 48 physical megapixels, divided into upper left, upper right, lower left and lower right in-group pixels. B. 24 mega pixels are read, binned in the form of upper left + lower right, upper right + lower left, dual stream 14bit readout. C. 2:1 pixel binning in the digital domain to generate 12 megapixels at 15bit, discard 1bit to 14bit output. D. The readout speed is around 21ms, approximating 48fps; when the precision is reduced to 12bit, 96fps can be achieved. E. The ADC does not have an 11bit mode, so it cannot achieve the faster 24M 11bit -> 12M 12bit. F. The digital binning discards 1bit of precision regardless of the mode of output, a waste of performance deliberately designed into IMX510. G. In one video mode, the internal readout of two 3.84K/128fps 12Bit ADC streams are digitally binned, but the resolution is not twice that of 3.84K. The precision and resolution are wasted. 5. Due to the uniqueness of the readout mode, IMX510 cannot achieve any 2x1 OCL in-group AF, and the orthogonal readout pixel groups cannot be used for phase detection. Therefore the only phase focusing design for the IMX510 is masked PDAF. A focusing method using 2x2 OCL AF will only be available when the all-pixel readout mode is unlocked. 6. The hardware performance of the sensor goes well beyond the limitations of the "IMX510" name. 7. If this sensor were to be a normal Bayer sensor, the readout speed would depend only on the total number of analogue pixels before the ADC, due to the pixel readout design. Thus 48 megapixels at 24fps 14bit. For this a Modified Bayer CFA can be used, which is suitable for pixel designs with 2:1 analogue signal binning - maximising its performance and enabling dual mode switching between high resolution and oversampled high speed shooting: Crop to 16:9 to achieve 8.5K/57.7fps 12bit, 2x4.35K/115.5fps 12bit respectively; crop slightly to 7.68K/64fps 12bit, 2x3.84K/128fps 12bit. Notably, its 2x3.84K/128fps 12Bit readout truly has double the resolution and achieves IMX301-like oversampling performance (Sony F65RS). 8. The readout speed of any column-parallel ADC design of an image sensor must be scaled by the line readout speed, by the total number of pixels multiplied by the number of columns, and at the same level of precision comparing: A 48 megapixel 14bit 24fps sensor reads at a larger scale than a 12 megapixel 14bit 48fps sensor, but we cannot call it a greater total number of pixels read out, but rather a faster readout, measured by miliseconds. At a given precision, readout time (the time taken to read a frame), readout scale (how many pixels are read in a second), and readout speed (how many rows of pixels can be read in a second by a column of ADCs), are three dintinctly different and important metrics.

Without question, if I had a blank slate, I’d buy either Sony or Canon now. Maybe Nikon, but mostly likely Sony. They may not be the most exciting and are lacking in various areas, but so many options and combos that can be put together. For stills, for my needs, I have already found the best combo (IMO) available ok the market based on a single body plus 3 lenses. For video, ditto but with L Mount. But would I invest in L Mount today? Absolutely not because it does appear very much now as Andrew says, they are soft-quitting the marketplace. Leica is too expensive and Sigma look like they are just focusing on glass now so it does look like: Leica = high end bodies LUMIX = low to mid bodies Sigma = lenses As a business user with a clean sheet start, absolutely no way I’d invest in a product line that I had no faith I could grow with over the years. But it is what it is. A bit sad really…

No, I do not agree. Regardless of what is said between the alps, it is a fact that they have not renewed their flagship FF models for more than 5 years. And it doesn't matter that the ones we have are very good. That's the market, baby! That's the rules, right or wrong, and if Pana doesn't follow them they get written off. Unless Lumix is a secret cult or has a history like Leica. No, it doesn't have both. In the next few weeks Sony will make a big announcement. By the time (perhaps) Pana unveils these damn S1M2s, its direct competitors will have completed two iterations of their models. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should follow trends but let's connect the dots: if Pana wants to be in the market and have access to the latest technology in sensors and microchips they have to have the minimum numbers. Having the sufficient numbers is not just to make money but mainly to be able to afford to have a custom sensor designed or access to fewer nanometer (advanced) chips. Otherwise they are cut off. And when the numbers are what we were quoting just few post before, they are on the edge of extinction. Imagine that in 2025 Pana sells 260K cameras while retaining 2023 numbers. How many will be S1HIIs? I mena with a new sensor? That is, how many custom sensors can you ask a supplier for? Maybe too few and you have to choose from the catalog.

I agree it would be nice to have an s1h ii announcement, but unless a competitor makes something better, I'm not too concerned. I used the nx1 for 3 or 4 years after samsung left the market, so it will likely be years before I think about a new camera regardless. The s9 would be nice for me if it had an evf. I could use a smaller photo camera for backpacking.

Not giving up, not personally anyway as in I don’t see a scenario where L Mount does not form 75% of my kit as it presently does and for probably the next couple of years… But disappointed. I thought the S9 was a pretty OK release and it’s an even better tool now, despite buying and returning one pretty quickly. (A third S5ii just made more sense). Mainly disappointed not so much there has been no replacement for the S1R/H, but that they are not giving any indication whatsoever re. the future. It’s not game over yet by any means, just not looking so positive longer term.

Not giving up, not personally anyway as in I don’t see a scenario where L Mount does not form 75% of my kit as it presently does and for probably the next couple of years… But disappointed. I thought the S9 was a pretty OK release and it’s an even better tool now, despite buying and returning one pretty quickly. (A third S5ii just made more sense). Mainly disappointed not so much there has been no replacement for the S1R/H, but that they are not giving any indication whatsoever re. the future. It’s not game over yet by any means, just not looking so positive longer term.

I feel some genuine sadness about this. The most Arri-like image and only a few issues in the S1H. They could have released a minor update with just the PDAF, a lower HDMI delay and a few tweaks and it still would have sold, even I would’ve bought it and sold the S1H. I sold the S1H a while back and kept the S5ii, but also got an A6700 and some of the smaller lenses for it to cover the most mobile situations. Partly this was also so I could get used to grading Sony’s now-improved colour in case Panasonic never put out an S1H ii and I have to go to the dark side fully 😂 the ONLY HOPE is the rumour that after introducing an official Arri log upgrade for some cameras, and their clear skill for Arri-like imaging, that Panasonic were working closely with Arri to make their next high-end camera. I’ve only seen that mentioned once, the idea is very cool and it seems logical since Arri sales are also apparently not as high as expected in both lighting and cameras due to competition. i just desperately hope this isn’t the end for Panasonic high end. It would be a real tragedy. The out-of-camera image neither need the intense massage of Sony slog3 nor has the tomato skin of a Canon, it just tends to look great.

If you were a 22 years old vlogger, you would buy FX30. Not because its a better camera, but because you've seen it in hand of many of other vloggers you are trying to replicate their style of work. Sony marketing has established a collective belief that if you wanna do video, you've got to use Sony. You can't beat a better marketing with better IBIS.

It's regrettable because cameras like the GH2 and GH5 were truly industry-leading in any number of ways. I loved both of them - but failure to continue innovating has let everybody else catch up or surpass them.

I agree. They have a real opportunity here to listen to the makers and continue to give us the specs we’re after. LUMIX has always given us so many features for the price and supported cinema features early on. Even maybe forcing some of the other brands to offer things they wouldn’t have. If they doubled down on that and started being more transparent they could foster a real creative community around their products that would spread to consumers at large. The Sony products are sterile and efficient tools but overpriced and lacking a lot. There’s no reason why LUMIX couldn’t have put out an FX3 and FX30 and dominated like the days of the DVX100. But it’s all about marketing and a plan and creating more around the brand. They are so close…

I actually think the S9 now looks pretty interesting. I had considered trading my S5 for a S9 but the recording limits and a few other things put me off. Now I'm reconsidering it again! In fact, if the S9 had the same lens bundles on offer as the S5mk2 then I'd probably go for it. I really like the idea of lightening the gear I carry and a S5mk2 with a S9 seems to make more sense than the S5mk2 and S5 (apart from the spending money bit😆). They have the same PDAF which I now use a lot as well as the punch in to check focus and have the exact same look. Hmmm🤔

On the whole I agree with you, and it's not that I'm missing anything major, so I'll keep plugging along on the S5iix's. But there are little things that get annoying shoot after shoot. Also would have been nice to have a clean and clear upgrade path.

Something the S9 has going for it over the other S cameras is the hybrid zoom function. Its 1.5x in 4K so this new 18-40mm becomes an 18-60mm with that extension so it actually makes the whole combo a more interesting proposition as a package. I'm guessing that Panasonic not giving it to the other cameras is a deliberate differentiation for that purpose so they can offer compact packages albeit with slower lenses that still maintain some of the range people want. If it was launched as this combo from the get go then I think a lot of the "I'm trying to be positive about this camera because they've flown me all the way here to shill it for them" lukewarm fixed grin "reviews" would've been a lot more positive. Because with this lens - and I'm guessing a similar tele companion version won't be far behind -the S9 makes a whole lot more sense. As it was, they blew that by having the silly pancake lens with it for the launch so all compactness would have to go out of the window by putting the usual L mount lenses on it.

The thing is, this was the last chance for 2024 to do something. Which means heading into 2025 there is not an update to 3 important 2018 cameras. That is quitting.

I'd say the A7 IV has a better sensor in a similarly priced body ($1500-2500 market). The Z6 III clearly is a new generation of sensor, in that same mid-range price bracket. The S5 Mark II is competitive on price, but Panasonic may as well give up on taking any sales away from the others. I really do think now that they have quit the flagship enthusiast and high-end market, in order to leave it to Leica. There can be no other explanation. The S1 series didn't sell well enough, so why throw good money after bad when they can use a tiny fraction of the budget on very low-cost stuff like the S9 with a 7 year old sensor? And they have continued to get new LSIs and new firmware features such as on the GH7, new codecs, ProRes, etc. So maybe there is a built up to a new S1H or something like that. But I just find it all very strange that in the 6 years between the big important S1 series launch and now, they have absolutely nothing to show for it. https://www.eoshd.com/news/panasonic-hiatus-worries-as-flagship-cameras-remain-nowhere-to-be-seen-in-2024/

They have not entirely quit the camera industry but it does feel like a soft quit at the moment.

I can't help but feel panasonic didn't do anything wrong here. They had a small announcement, so they didn't hype it. The only hype was the outlandish rumors a bunch of people started throwing around. There was no reason to believe there would be a big cinema announcement... if panasonic had a big announcement, they would have hyped it themselves. What we got was a bunch of firmware updates, a refresh of a low end camera, and a pretty cool new compact lens. I'd actually love their new 18-40 for backpacking trips. Again, if they had indicated in the slightest that there would be a major announcement, that would be a different story. Kind of amazing if people get disappointed that the thing they made up didn't happen.

I was hoping on a big firmware update for the s5ii, but looks like a snoozefest. Unless I am missing something, there isnt anything in there that I need.

Confirmed: So it's S5D, S9 firmware, and S5ii/x firmware. ...Tired of waiting. Literally just want the S1H and S1R with some refresh features from the s5ii. I've been thinking of going full nikon Z + sony E for the system I grow into.

I wonder if the main issue that Panasonic faces now is that they simply don't have access to a new sensor that exceeds the one they've been using, at an affordable price. There's only so much you can do if your sensor supplier doesn't have a new model. Remember that the current 24 MP sensor is used by many companies, and is really good. There are very few features that would get me to upgrade from an S5 that don't involve a new sensor (such as 32 bit audio or a decent app)--and they are so niche to small-crew videographers, that the market must be minuscule. The market share numbers are really a shame. Panasonic killed it with the GH and S series feature sets for a long time. I wonder what percent of sales are from people who do basic research like available lenses, upgrade paths, etc. As @Phil A, lack of lenses is a big downside for L mount for enthusiasts--but what percent of buyers ever get more than the kit lens? How about more than 2 lenses? What percent think, "L mount has no lenses" but never buy more than 2 lenses anyway? I really have no idea, I just wonder the true impact. There is some hope on that front, though. Sigma's lenses are wildly good for their prices. And with Samyang joining in, there might be more low end lenses in the next few years.

Wow... the buying public really are not rewarding the innovation shown by Panasonic and Fuji judging by those numbers. You wonder how sustainable 260k is for Panasonic, as 3.6% is just pathetic for a company that size. What were Samsung on before the exit? Olympus? OM are doing very badly considering the size of a system they inherited, many loyal users. Canon, what can I say - they just don't deserve to be that far ahead when there are so many better options behind from Sony, Nikon and Fuji. People... their habits die hard don't they. Makes me think they rushed out the original EOS R just to bind people into the RF lenses early.

What heresy - I can tell in both of those images that there are cupboards just a few feet behind him and he's in a kitchen! Any proper image with Toneh should be at f/0.95 and I shouldn't be able to tell if he's in a kitchen, at a lake, or mountaineering!

In that case, I'll replace the video with something with more value to the DJI discussion 🙂

Yeah, as per usual, he's serving up more half baked nonsense.

Interested to see what DJI may do. Not interested in anything Toneh has to say on the matter.

I remember similar stuff in 1996, here's me a teenager at college... They had very early cable internet, which was a huge step up from the home modem. The crap is held aloft and in high regard by people. You only have to look at some of the videos in this thread 🙂 I find Facebook a mixed bag... There's some very good group content, user generated stuff like Reddit has. But it never has room to breathe. A photo, with a caption... max... Then you scroll past. It never goes anywhere... it's orphaned content, without a home or any parents. And Facebook has a certain demographic too... Not many younger voices on there. It's practically a boomer platform! If you for example are a 1990s PC game enthusiast on Facebook you can get a dopamine hit with a rush of likes by posting a photo of your setup and how nostalgic it is... fine... Erm, do that on a blog and you have a livelihood. You're a publisher, writer and journalist whereas on Facebook you're NOTHING but an end-user to be monetised for sake of Mr Zuckenberg. Bloom is an interesting example as he started off 80% professional cameraman, 20% blogger and ended up 10% professional, 90% social media influencer. The influencer role is bad for your mental health and has a very short career-span of perhaps 10 years maximum before the companies get bored of you. And it leaves you a hollow shell of a person, who has shilled his reputation away... and his credibility. This is because they are trying to get off the endless treadmill and save their mental health. Thanks for that observation it has cheered me up. Nearly outlived DPReview as well which never expected to do 🙂 Haha.

I was also interested in those Sigma DP cameras except for one thing, shockingly bad low light capability! I like ‘left field’ gear. Partly because I am somewhat willful and partly because I don’t like following the herd. But at the same time, not if it’s to my detriment. Which it was a bit too much when I only used that OG X100. Or rather to my clients detriment. I’d go Hassie X2D with a pair of primes if I could. Something around 28mm for indoor and something around 50mm for outdoor and just use cropping. Maybe in a few years when pricing comes down as my final stills camera for the last few years of what will be a 30 year industry career…

There is. But you can also have the flexibility of going out one day with just a single prime and then on other days, say for work purposes and have a zoom or multiple lenses. Which is why I probably would struggle to go back to a fixed lens these days, ie, because we can have the same principle, but with that interchangeable lens body.

Really? I had the same sensor X100V in the XT3 and the S5ii/Z6ii beats it. I have the same sensor as the Q3 in my A7RV and that beats both of those. Nah. Those APSC sensor cameras put out good quality for sure, but few would say comparable even with 24mp full frame when it comes to outright image quality. 60mp A7RV is on another level. I’ve been through the sensor/image quality improvement process over the last few years and it’s definitely a real thing. There’s a noticeable difference moving up, but the difference is even more apparent if you go back after any time. Just my experience anyway…

I have a Q3 (have had previous Qs too) and I love it, I think the lens is amazing with a lovely character. I carry it with me everywhere and for me it was worth the price - would I like it if I could buy a similar camera for less from another manufacturer? Yes of course but there isn't one that fits the bill from my point of view. Namely, bright fast 28mm lens, rugged build, fantastic evf on the left of the body, superb full frame sensor with a lovely output and all in a relatively light package. I will keep it for a few years and it will still be worth a few quid, probably will end up costing me £25 a week which for something that gives me a lot of pleasure is a bargain in my book.

I wouldn’t go that far… If it was €£$3500, it would be as cool as f*ck. A modern tilt screen, IBIS, large sensor, relatively compact camera, is highly desirable to a lot of folks, me included! From the OG X100 (my favourite camera of all time relative to it’s time) to it’s latest iteration, plus the Sony RX1R, the Q2/Q3 and even the little Ricoh’s, it suits a lot of folks! My only issue has been the lack of longer lenses with these things and Fuji got around it with a wide angle and tele adapters and the 60mp jobs with cropping and multiple models a la Ricoh are an option, but probably a bit pricey for most having 2x Q3’s! It has got me thinking though that a pair of the latest X100’s, one with the wide and the other with the tele, would make a really great combo, especially now that they have; IBIS, tilt and a decent amount of megapixels for some further cropping…

Leica have always walked a fine line between the money you pay being for the engineering and design, and the money being for the branding. They've got to be more transparent about when they are using software correction on a very basic cheap optic made in China.

$7K is an absolute joke. You are not getting a Leica, it's a Panasonic. The 28mm lens on the normal Q3 is really terrible, it's worse than a toy and relies on Panasonic's correction to get rid of the massive distortion and vignetting. Leica just need to be more honest... what is the $7K getting you in terms of engineering from LEICA? Cutting edge lens? No. It's very misleading marketing in my view. Leica Q 28mm RAW: With the built in software profile applied in-camera and Adobe Camera Raw: