Andrew Reid

You don't need as part of this challenge to import from Japan or Asia, I am sure there are camera stores in Australia!

I'm still not sure you can infringe a patent just by making something which attaches to something else and passes on a signal. That would rule out a lot of stuff, wouldn't it? Anyway, hopefully my Techart E-Z adapter arrives in 2-3 days, before the Nikony lawsuit does!

Z-LOG remains in the camera memory, independent of the card. So if you format the card or use a different one, Z-LOG will still be available in the menus, until you reset the camera.

Shhhhhhh!

I've no idea but certainly interested to try the Sigma MC-11 on the E-mount to Z adapter

We can't all change the rules just to suit the Canadians

Scoring criteria: Price - Points for the price you bought the camera, the lower the price the more points Technical quality - Points for the image quality of your chosen camera... Points deducted for aliasing, moire, noise, smaller sensor, softness, lower than 1080p resolution, bad colour and dynamic range, etc. So if you do go super cheap, make sure you don't get something that's so terrible in this criteria as it would deduct the points you gained for the low price. Artistic quality - Points for how cinematic you make it look. Time to win the most points of all the categories and win back some of the points you lost for a few technical shortcomings like moire which almost all cheap cameras have. For example if went for a camera with a large sensor, and made the most of it with your choice of subject and lens, then that's going to overcome the points lost for that old large sensor perhaps not having the best dynamic range or resolution, etc. I may add a couple more categories, but that is basically it... the challenge in a nut shell.

Having experience of Quad Bayer on smartphones, I think it works superbly for low light performance and wouldn't be surprised to see A7S III make use of it as well.

Oh dear! It's turning into Formula One! Rulebooks volume 1 and 2 have got longer than War & Peace and although agreement on the budget cap is progressing well, Alonso wants to use his CineLike D profile whereas some other drivers would prefer Magic Lantern!! I reckon LX100 is a total bargain. However, it's a bit too good given the spirit of the rules aims to make us all shoot with much worse. So a compact still has to be £200 or under with lens! Or, we could have another competition later where we rise to £300 and the possibilities of what to use changes. For this contest, I think we really have to aim for total trash cams and somehow, with raw skill, make em look half-way decent. The scoring should work on two areas: 1. The treasure hunt part 2. The end results Say you have the luck and shopping skills to swoop on a 4K LX100 for under £200... That's going to net a good score in the Treasure Hunt. Then if you make something really cinematic with it, that makes it look more like a RED than a small-ish sensor compact, that's a high score in the End Results. So with just those two things to focus on, we can be free to use whatever camera and lens we like as long as the CAMERA is under £200 and the LENS is a relatively cheap favourite you already own. £500 modern lens not allowed, etc. I think that's WAAAY too long. The aim is not to go crazy on a multiple-day shoot, I think it takes a lot of cinematography skills to make the ordinary every-day and natural light look great, versus being a full on filmmaker putting all sorts of organisation into a project and a ton of effort over multiple days, that's not really in the spirit of a fun little competition. Then again I appreciate that a fun competition-experiment isn't exactly going to be a huge priority for people with jobs inflexible schedules, so we should definitely give everyone, even the most busy, enough time to join in. I'd say, if the main blog post marks the start of the competition this weekend, then 1 week to find a camera and 1 week to shoot something, even if only for 1 day, would be enough.

LOL. Is that their priority? I could understand that on a 100MP camera perhaps, but I sense that the Exmor GS is aimed at sports market / A9 II. Priority benefits would be eliminating artefacts and LED banding in fast burst mode, and extending life of the camera for such work, which would wear down a mechanical shutter fast. Also, without a mechanical shutter Sony can boast about their technology being fully 100% digital and not mechanical. Good for marketing. I don't think they care much about shutter shake, which is practically non-existent on modern shutters anyway (see the damped springy quiet mechanical shutters in the X-H1 and Panasonic S1 for example), unless you are pixel peeping a 200 megapixel landscape shot?!

I doubt everyone who makes E-mount lenses have a royalties and licensing agreement with Sony!? Chinese companies in particular. 7Artisans? I doubt it. Reverse engineering some electronic contacts and then making a translator chip for your own adapter, I don't think is infringing on a patent. And Techart / Metabones don't ever seem to get trouble from the manufacturers they make adapters for. Techart already has a Canon EF to Fuji GFX mount Autofocus adapter for example, and they didn't get sued for lens mount license royalties. Infringing on a patent would be creating a camera with E-mount, and exact same protocols. An adapter is not the same thing, it's a mod, not a new camera. Patents and trademarks apply to specific articles.

I'd prefer if people use a lens they already have. Unless you don't have anything lens-related that's under $200, spending another $100 on a lens is getting away from the low cost spirit of the competition, as is adding rigs, speed boosters, etc. Rules are: Camera body under $200 US on eBay. If you are in a country that has different currency, just translate $200 to your local currency. That's your budget. If your camera is already in your possession, it has to be found for $200 or less, (or equiv. in your currency) using eBay and other online stores as a price guide. Put simply, it has to currently be in stock for that price. No finished auctions or faulty units can count. Has to be a live deal. Can be online or offline at local shop. In Europe and UK we'll have £200 / 200 euro as the budget, to keep it simple... 200 across the board in those 3 currencies, and the rest are converted from $. Gorilla pod or tripod only. No other rigs, cages, shoulder mounts are allowed. I'm gonna say Speed Boosters are indeed allowed. Although not strictly in the spirit of the task, I as a judge would be more impressed if you used literally the cheapest possible lens and adapter and make them look good anyway. Yeah, I'd say a cheap speed booster for $50 you might already own is just about in the spirit of things... But I think I will allow metabones as well, as like you say, end result is pretty similar... so metabones owners aren't put at a disadvantage from the owners of cheap stuff. As for filters, use whatever... Again the end result of an ND is cheap to create, but if you only have a top of the range $200 ND lying around on a shelf, may as well use it and pretend it cost $10

Yeah, good point about keeping your choice of camera secret until after. I'll add that to the final rules, on the blog post. Competition will have a start and end date. How much time should we take... 2 weeks?

Hmm I'm not sure... What do people think to focal reducers? Is that cheating with sensor size a bit? Or should it be allowed?

Rules tweak The limit is now $200 / £200 / €200 But the lower it is, the more the judges will be impressed. Sure, you can use your existing GH2 which is just about a $200 camera now in some places... But it won't win you many bonus points for creativity. The cinematography and how good you make the camera look remains the main thing, but if you do it with something far less capable than a GH2, I'll be mightily impressed. Having said that, I'll be just as impressed if you manage to shoot 4K for under $200. There is also the "public vote", where all the entries will go into a forum poll. The winner of the EOSHD judge award wins a prize from me. The winner of the public poll receives the camera of the last place man, just to spice it up Yes you can shoot with anything... a DSLR, mirrorless, compact. But no Magic Lantern as that would be a big old cheat vs someone with H.264 from 2009. Big bonus points for finding BARGAINS... This is partly a treasure hunt challenge, and about research into image quality. Feel free to use Google and DPReview video quality chart for example. If you manage to find a 4K beast for under $200, you get a big advantage, so well done. If you find something far less capable but manage to make it look amazing with your shooting skills, also a big well done. Two ways to approach it.

I think this is the final part of the rules, which I haven't yet decided on. What do people think? I don't think the GH2 is under $150 yet, is it? The spirit of the challenge is to try something new... Go on a shopping hunt, a voyage of discovery, researching a new camera you never used, or overlooked when it first came out. But then if you don't have a spare $150 and just want to use the oldest, cheapest camera on your shelf, perhaps that should be allowed as well... provided it is actually now a $150 camera in 2019 on ebay. Yep, that's allowed. LOL. You bought it for $150 or under so it's within the rules. The challenge will be how you get around the damage, without it hurting the image so much that you get voted out of the cinematography challenge

Just to clarify the lenses and filters rules: I want to keep it simple, with as few rules as possible. I think we should be allowed to use whatever lens we like as long as it's relatively old and cheap-ish. But if someone only has a $250 50mm F1.4 Nikon AI-S for example, I wouldn't be against them using it. Just no really fancy stuff. Maybe bonus points for you, if you go for a REALLY cheap lens? On filters... These are allowed... ND filter and basic essentials like that are ok. Soft mist filter, UV filter, etc. and trick lens filters are all ok too for creative reasons.

Out of my cold dead hands!! So a quick summary of the rules then... 1. Under £150/150euros/$150, to make it simple. I think that also rules out ProRes and 4K but if you genuinely find a camera like that under the price limit, fair play. So I am allowing 4K and better codecs, if you can get em. 2. Proof of purchase receipt. Can be recent. You do not need to buy another camera, but it does have to be within the past 6 months and under $150. 3. No Magic Lantern RAW... It would thrash everything else and make the contest a bit boring. 4. Lens has to be "reasonably priced" and you can only use one. Choose wisely from your existing stuff. I will catch you if you use an Otus. 5. Use whatever else you like, in terms of cards, etc. 6. Tripod or handheld only - so no fancy rigs or sliders. 7. No fancy lights. 8. No fancy actors. 9. You can use slow-mo, if your camera does 60p for example 10. No fancy lens adapters like an expensive Speed Booster 11. Declare your camera (post pictures of it) in the competition thread (once competition has started) 12. In the final video, upload to YouTube or Vimeo with description of what mode you shot in and codec (i.e. 1080p 24p / 720p 60p / etc.) THE GOAL It's a cinematography and mood challenge, to make your camera look AS GOOD AS POSSIBLE. I don't really care about the story or message, although if you want to do one that's fine as well and it may serve the images nicely. Sound can be anything you like - but I'd prefer some emotional attachment with the pictures. It enhances the cinematography and mood a LOT if you get it right. Everything else is up to you. No time limit. No editing limitations, you can use a LUT, colour grade, warp stabilisation, slow-mo, etc. if you think it improves your piece. PRIZE I will pick a winner for the main prize, and there will also be a forum vote for the most popular video. I'll reveal the prize after the entries are in. Would love to do a photography one of these some time as well, in collaboration with another forum member - maybe @Mattias Burling ? Who is in, and who agrees with the 10 rules? Any suggestions welcome. For the start of the competition, please wait for the main blog post... Maybe in a few days, or this weekend. In the mean time... happy shopping / dusting off It's still in the spirit of the challenge if you find a camera as good as that for under $150. I doubt you can though. Remember though, it's the cinematography that matters as well... You can easily make a 4K camera look worse than a much cheaper one if the shooting technique isn't nice

Amazed. That's more than the GH5 sticky topic. And a lot more than the sticky topics at the official Blackmagic forum on 20-30k. Wonder how many Pocket 4K units are actually out there?

Viewing distances + screen size, not just the size. I notice nearly every pixel of a 1080p image on a laptop, sat close to it, and same image at cinema sat way back looks like an 8K film scan

I don't think it is, although nobody knows for sure how they did it. You don't. I can only guess. Reverse engineering some electronic contacts isn't the same as infringing IP, is it?

Looking at the WEX deals, the D200 in particularly is very capable. Good ergonomics as well. The Fuji S5 Pro I bought from WEX cost more than the D200, but it's got the Fuji CCD. Colour is lovely and it came boxed almost as if it's never been used. Not bad for £120! It also somewhat blows my mind that you can now get a Fuji X-T1 for £160. Nothing for that price can touch it for mirrorless photography. The EVF, the lovely design, decent AF and very capable sensor. On the video side, the GX80 is a bargain at £160 as well... 5 axis IBIS and 4K, plus I hear some bloke will give it CineLikeD if asked nicely?!

Maybe we could do a similar thing also for stills. What's the cheapest APS-C or full frame DSLR which still holds up today... I'd say 5D classic or Fuji S5 Pro Mattias could organise that one? Challenges at different prices could also be interesting... Who has a camera between $300 - $500 that can take a blind test, where people mistake it for a $3000 one? Seen a GH2 for £120 But a G6 is even more bang for buck now

Everyone should try a gorilla pod for handheld video... It gives you four points of contact on the body. 2 legs of the pod are on your chest or lower shoulder area, the 3rd leg acts as a handle. The 4th contact point is the EVF of the camera held to the eye. When you try this, you wonder if you even need IBIS. IBIS is making us lazy and its floaty. I am going to shoot a test where I use an X-T3 with the pod, and compare it to X-H1 with IBIS bare bones... See which looks most cinematic and steady. Obviously the pod isn't going to provide dolly in the sky like movements, but it replicates the look of a steady shoulder rig on the cheap and easy

Yes rules... something like: Erm, no cheating. Have to show some kind of proof of purchase (receipt). No putting a Cooke PL lens on it. No fancy rigs. Tripod or gorilla pod handheld. It's not really a storytelling test or acting challenge, so no elaborate filmmaking here...Just pure cinematography... Streets, normal stuff but try and make the ordinary look as amazing as possible. Dogme 95 style shoot, so no expensive lights either! Natural light. Maybe we should all use the same $20 lens? A 50mm Helios? The rules on lenses could be that it has to be one we already own, which cost under $150 as well... Then free choice as far as focal length and aperture goes, can even use a cheap zoom... but only ONE LENS in total. Muhaha. Thinking out loud... Should Magic Lantern cameras even be allowed? Or do we have to pick an off the shelf digital camera? If Magic Lantern was allowed, we'd all be using a 50D or EOS M and it might be a bit boring.