Andrew Reid

In-camera LUTs Better menus Better EVF Colour science is different Erm, that's about it? 🙂

I would pick a7r V + Sigma 35mm f2 any day over the Q3. Especially as it is cheaper!

So the R5 is now $2.3k second hand and Z6 Mark III is $2.2k brand new (at least here in Berlin at the local shop). Now I am thinking the R5 is best for full frame 4K/120p but the Z6 Mark III might actually have some advantages of its own... The 6K RAW is 60p, whereas for 8K/60p you need the EOS R5 C and not the original R5. With Z-mount there is the Techart autofocus adapter for Leica M mount lenses and adapters, so that's a big plus for photography especially as I dislike the price, character and size of most modern native Zf lenses and Canon Rf lenses. Video autofocus and IBIS on the Z6 Mark III are improved vs the EOS R5. The Z8 is 3800 euros in comparison... Z6 III has big price advantage and also the small advantage (in my humble view) of a mechanical shutter + a slight edge in low light performance due to the lower resolution sensor. Moving parts lends an operational heft - although on Z8 you will never worry about a high shutter count tanking value or reliability of the camera. Call me old fashioned but in this solid state era I still like my mechanical mechanisms in cameras though. The 4K/120p is 1.5x DX crop but to be honest I am fine with that... This is an improvement on the already very capable Fuji X-H2 which crops a further 1.28x from 1.5x in 4K 120fps. It's also an improvement on the 2x crop G9 II and GH7 which are both very nice for slow-mo as well. Sure, they forgot to add a soul or retro appeal and it has put on some weight, the tubby little fucker. But I am starting to see the sense in it. Next camera coming up?

We can dream... Sony should go all in with a Minolta film camera style mirrorless. Of the two companies that should have bought the Olympus camera division, Panasonic and Sony, they could have been riding high on a full frame PEN by now had they some imagination.

I suppose it helps to have the GH2 mindset... It might be a bit cheap and look like a toy but it's capable of great things. And of course it is nowhere near as cheap or as plastic-fantastic as a GH2 but the bar has been moved on since then quite a bit in terms of build quality and ergonomics. If the Leica SL2 was still unobtainable price wise (just saw some for £1700 on eBay UK btw), take that out of the picture and I think you have the choice between Zf and EOS R5. The R5 we can probably forgive now it works properly and has had more firmware updates than a Talkie Toaster. The Zf needs forgiveness for not being a Leica. Maybe there needs to be a camera sin forgiveness ceremony this Christmas. Makes me wonder if Sony will get in on the retro camera game?

1800 euros Nikon Zf 2300 euros Leica SL2 and Canon EOS R5 And therein lies the dilemma 🙂

Nice! N-LOG white balance has to be nailed in-camera, more or less. RAW definitely more flexible in that regard. How did you find the N-LOG view assist? Is it accurate in terms of exposing N-LOG correctly or does it mess with you and the histogram? Did you spot what the difference is between N-RAW quality NORMAL and HIGH? It would be nice to get those file sizes down in 24p at least. No 4K N-RAW mode?

Just some impressions... Second time out with an SL2, last time was in early 2020. Terrible things followed. Let's hope I haven't just cursed myself with the second coming 🙂 So it has had a lot of firmware updates, but some things remain the same... The 5K open gate mode has some mojo, like the camera it was based on (Panasonic S1R) Take a look at this footage early in the video of his family...if you didn't know you'd think that was actually a reel of film. I know he's done quite a bit to it in post but still... That is crazy filmic. Second thing which sold me on it was the price... I think 2300 euros is fair. In today's market we can get 8K and 4K/120p for this with the second hand EOS R5 bless his overheating heart. So this is 4K/60p full frame 10bit LOG H.265, 5K open gate, 1080p goes up to 180fps... And best of all it isn't a fucking Canon. The second hand market with these sorts of prices has to make you think twice about buying new stuff especially if it is $3-6k doesn't it? The UHD 4K is pixel binned in 24p and 60p, there is a very small 1.1x crop of sides, it does however look very clean and detailed, you'll only notice a difference to oversampled 4K from 6K on a test chart really. DCI 4K mode there is no crop, goes edge to edge of full sensor width. The in-camera LUT view assist works well, and has a few built in pre-sets as well from Leica like Classic and Natural. There are 3 slots for your own .cube files. You cannot bake a LUT into the recording, it's only for display. In stills mode autofocus is very very fast when it works, just not as reliable as phase-detect obviously, and in video mode it is neither fast or reliable 🙂 EVF is immense. Entering video mode is a single button tap. Like Samsung NX1. A great and minimal way to quickly toggle between photos and videos. It has USB charging, full size HDMI, dual card slots Now the not so great stuff... A tad on the heavy side, but not as chonky as S1H. No articulated screen... The main downside where video is concerned. No phase-detect. Could benefit from a few more function buttons. 5K Open gate is a Super 35mm crop L-mount lacks a few exotic adapters like the Techart Leica M Autofocus beasty which I have for Sony But biggest downside is the dilemma of choice at $2000... the market is ridiculous. So much going on now at this price region... There is the Nikon Z6 III which obviously has better specs where video is concerned, the only question is whether you need the higher numbers or not. The EOS R5 is also better specced for used price of $2000-25000... Fuji GFX 100S can be had also for around $2.7k now if you want 2019's $10k medium format camera in a smaller, more compact form. Absolute steal. And of course the Nikon Zf will do a lot of things right for a lot of folk. Panasonic S5 II / S9 as well. None of them have quite the same magic feel when shooting though as the SL2

If they do a Zf II here are some ideas for improvements... 1. Dump that HUGE sticker on the back, put the info on the base of the camera and much smaller. 2. Card door on side, not under. 3. Battery door alloy, not plastic 4. Replace "i" button with a joystick 5. Use more premium d-pad and button materials / design 6. Thinner bezel on the LCD 7. Option to replace plastic PU grip with real leather for $50 8. A deeper built in grip - not too big that it spoils the film camera-style design but at least something rather than nothing 9. Auto ISO is a mess... Have an auto setting on the ISO dial FFS 10. Shutter dials needs 1/50... Can't shoot 60p in PAL countries at 1/60 11. Screen should be a flip down design (X-T5) or similar to a7r V, as the vlogger style one debases it style-wise 12. Have a fucking aperture dial on the retro-styled Z lenses, and a higher grade of plastic housing, or even better use metal like your average 75 dollar chinese Amazon lens perhaps? 13. There is room for a mid-range and higher-range higher price version, that with the better Z6 III sensor tech and 4K/120fps 14. Eye cup isn't padded enough 15. Get rid of the + / - zoom buttons and Disp. The zoom can be a one button to punch in and half press to come out. The Disp should be an up-tap on the d-pad. Also get rid of the quick menu button and replace it with a focus point joystick, and have the quick menu accessed via middle button of d-pad. 16. Allow the B/W mode to be programmed to any LUT 17. Sack the guy who did the back of the camera

For me there has to be a good reason for it being styled the way it is, otherwise main factor of it comes across as a gimmick if the design is a surface level only thing, I may as well spend a bit more and get the Z6 III or an EOS R6 II. Love the way it looks, just not so much the cheap plastic feel. For the price you don't expect Leica, but then you kind of do now due to the used prices of stuff. You can also get the original SL if stills are the main thing and video not too much... That is down somewhere in region of 1300 now. So those are the cameras the Zf have to compete with if it wants to be a Leica-clone. If it were more ergonomic or nicer to hold than the SL2 with a reassuring feel of quality to it I definitely would have got it instead as the new IBIS seemed really a step above everything I've tried so far, and the autofocus / same processor as Z8 has a definite appeal as well.

It's scary good

I have a Sony for autofocus. Leica for manual focus and GFX 100. I can live without pretty much any modern mirrorless camera lens, as I feel they have lost the plot... both on price and size. The rendering isn't exactly great either on the modern stuff... too perfect.

After finally selling some stuff (Nikon D850) was all set to buy a Zf today but chickened out and got a Leica SL2 instead. A bit of a u-turn that! First up, the Z6 III. It's a tubby and ugly looking body, it makes the original Z6 feel a lot more premium and slimmer. The screen is worse, build and ergonomics. The spec however is really good and the 6K RAW internal recording is un-cropped at 60fps, with 4K/120p available too in DX crop mode. So the spec is a winner and it has everything but they forgot to add a soul. Which is a pity. 2200 euros brand new with current special offers is good, and 6K RAW internal 60p would have been a dream spec back in 2019. In 2024, it is becoming normal to see 6K in some form, and RAW is not really the form I want it in. The file sizes are too big and it's overkill for me. Next up, the Nikon Zf. 4K oversampled 10bit N-LOG with the best IBIS and autofocus for under 2k... This is a full frame Fuji X-T5, and was selling at 1800 euros new which is decent price to be honest. But it is clear Nikon's intention was to capture the Fuji X crowd with a cheap camera and iffy build quality, rather than make something special and that's where the Leica SL2 comes in because this is a former $6800 camera that's now worth just 2300 euros in good condition second hand, so why settle for the Zf when for just 500 smackers more you can get a proper Leica? There are aspects of the Zf design that completely spoil it. The massive ugly sticker on the back, which you can't remove, ruins the retro appearance of it, and in the hand, the buttons wouldn't be out of place on a Casio calculator for £2, the battery and card slot door is appalling - plastic and full of scratches even on the display model which has never left the shop, and the general grade of plastic parts wouldn't be out of place in Poundland or on a coke bottle. The plastic mount and general build of the 40mm F2 SE is borderline insulting. A real shame, because the Zf is a very capable machine with a superb image. It needs an L-bracket with a grip, it needs a better 40mm, it needs premium materials and not the strange mix of brass and plastic. The front and top of the camera look and feel great, but the bottom and back are shockingly awful and out of place. Now the thing is... I would have bought it anyway, it's great for video, really good 10bit N-LOG, stabilisation is superb and the EVF is large and clear. But the price difference is now just so small, and look at what you get... 47 megapixels, 5K open gate, 4K/60 full frame, even better EVF, and build quality / ergonomics in a different league. There's also the firmware updates since release, and a new battery which I'll come to in a moment. The firmware updates have added in-camera LUT support, so you can load a .Cube file and monitor with it through the EVF and screen, very nice. L-LOG is much improved from the first SL. The SL2-S was also an option, at just 2200 used from the Leica store in Berlin. This however, does not do full frame 60p, no 5K open gate, less resolution for cropping and photography, though you do get slightly crisper 4K from the oversampled sensor with no pixel binning. The new battery which came along with the Q3 is much needed on the SL2 to avoid the original issues with it locking you out of high-powered video modes like 4K/60p 10bit when the battery drops below 50% charge - the old battery is just very unstable, and it really put me my first SL2 back in 2020. So with the firmware updates and new battery, allegedly Leica have finally fixed the biggest issue with the SL2. I think it's a really underrated cine camera, and a pleasure to shoot with. So there you have it... If you want soul, retro, feel, premium materials... Leica SL2 over Nikon Zf any day... for just 500 euros more.

Yes it will, you load the file onto the camera via Nikon's utility on the web

When the 5D Mark II and Panasonic GH1 were all the rage, I picked the GH1. I keep thinking back to why and it appears that the full frame look wasn't important enough compared to other factors, like price, codec, articulated screen, EVF, autofocus and so on. Now Panasonic is doing it again... The G9 II has 4K/120p for $1500, extremely good codec, packed feature set, cheaper than GH7 but same sensor, very clean in low light, the list goes on... If I wanted these features on a full frame camera I'd have to pay at least $3000. Also something else is nagging me... I have grown to dislike the cliche of a shallow DOF where you can't see the setting or background properly. Yet I still want the character of a lens wide open, the smoother bokeh, the light vignette, more 3D and the best flares. So I think back to my Kern Switar 26mm F1.1 or Voigtlander Nokton 25mm F0.95 on the GH2, and realise that I can shoot wide open at mega fast apertures yet still see the background. It will be lightly out of focus (unless the subject is REALLY close) and that I like. On a large sensor it would look very different. I think it's time to do a Micro Four Thirds vs full frame test, at fast apertures wide open on both, same FOV, same setting and framing. It will be really interesting to see what the rendering is like and how the G9 II stands up in terms of image quality, dynamic range, and high ISO. As they have come a LONG way since the GH2 and GH4. I also think some of the Super 16mm and 2x crop lenses out there are really characterful, whereas full frame lenses at least all the modern ones tend to be too perfect looking. I think it's more challenging to set up a shot on a large sensor... You often have to stop down, which negates the low light advantage, changes the rendering and bokeh, the flare, and nearly everything. By the way, I'm sure part of this is nostalgia... In 2009 when Vimeo and DSLR filmmaking community first got going, everyone was happy to be called a filmmaker. It's interesting that now "creator" is the preferred term, as it covers anyone who creates anything. But does that also mean we are specialising less in one area and relying on modern technology over human artistry and the human hand? With IBIS, shallow DOF, unmotivated camera movement, drones, walking around with IBIS handheld, autofocus, and such like... I feel all this usually fails 9 times out of 10 compared to a simple locked down shot on a tripod Spielberg style. Maybe it's time to get a G9 II, turn off IBIS, take my time, stick it on a tripod with a C-mount prime on the front and see how this style works compared to the convenience of luxury of no-tripod, a faster shoot, a full frame Nikon Z8 with IBIS and autofocus on a modern lens.

It's good enough for more than that really, we're talking pixel peeping level differences to RAW with a demanding grade. 13 stops is Low dynamic range now? The problem with all these new raw formats is they are all debayered in-camera, and compressed quite a bit. Magic Lantern Cinema DNG has more character.

All depends what your benchmark for happiness is. If it was the stock 1080p codec on those cameras, then the raw was an insane improvement in every possible way. It's still a stunningly beautiful image today. With none of the super-smooth and clean look of today's not-quite-raw codecs.

Interesting answers 👍

The gap between APS-C and Micro Four Thirds has turned into an advantage to Micro Four Thirds with the G9 II And the gap between the G9 II and full frame is very small. Impressive little camera.

So with N-RAW we have file sizes in the region of 2500Mbit/s, which is huge. With H.265 we can go as low as 50Mbit/s and still have a very usable 10bit LOG image with as much dynamic range as the sensor can give us. This guy did a comparison... And RAW should not really look like this, should it? I thought RAW is supposed to have a very fine grain and a lot more dynamic range than H.265, as well as less compression especially in the shadows but instead we have WORSE macroblocking and noise than in the H.265 and less dynamic range. When I had my Z9 I did a similar comparison as well to the Sony a1 H265 8K. And found pretty much the same. So... Can someone tell me what the point of N-RAW is? (Click to enlarge...)

This is a pity. Can you carry over the current exposure settings from one mode to the other? Apparently in video mode you can shoot only JPEG photos, so again have to switch and switch and switch again. Then again this is not a GH1. I suppose you can shoot 8K RAW in video mode and just extract the stills from that, for a hybrid shoot. Wow the 4K/60p is oversampled from 8k/60? I bet the battery life takes a bit of a hammering though. Good, I get along well with H.265 at 50-100Mbit, it has a great image for tiny file size. That's my main concern as well, does the EIS alone work well with a Leica M lens on the front? And it doesn't work at all for photos. And I am wondering how big the crop is without an OIS lens. 2000 euro EOS R5 / 3000 euro EOS R3 / 3000 euro EOS R5 C second hand in Europe. R3 is tempting at that price as well. Why are Canon bodies depreciating so much more than they used to? People switching to Sony maybe?

The good old GF1 for size

Denizens of the internet... I present to you the Panasonic Q It is Netflix approved with 6K open gate. Phase-detect AF and IBIS Leica lenses (And some nifty Noktons) In-camera LUTs And still nobody cares because it has a Lumix badge - not a Sony. Yes, it is as small as a Leica Q. Yes, it is much better for video than a Leica Q. The Leica Q3 is 6300 euros. This set me back 1299 special offer in Olive Green. The lens can be changed... On the Leica Q you are stuck to a fake Leica lens that needs heavy digital correction to look ok. It has IBIS... the Q of course doesn't. And in the end, they are both the smallest full frame cameras you can get along with a Sony RX1R II or Sigma Fp/L So in conclusion, Panasonic are doomed. The social media response to this camera made it out to be some sort of silly toy. It just goes to show how uncreative these zealots are. Would it have been nice to have a built in EVF, the only feature aside from extra resolution you get for your 6300 euros on a Q3? Of course. Would it have been nice to be Leica grade in terms of materials, looks, and so on? Well it's not THAT far off really. There has never been such a good image and wide range of features in a camera this small or cheap, end of story. Add a Sigma 35mm F2 or Voigtlander M 40mm F1.2 and enjoy!

NX1 one was the first camera that moved the needle following the GH4 which brought 4K to the masses at a cheap price for first time, and Samsung needed to stay the course, they are the only equal to Sony in terms of manufacturing capabilities... at least were, in 2014 anyway. I agree consistency is the problem, they chop and change too often. Imagine a full frame NX1 style camera from Samsung with IBIS, 10bit Samsung LOG, and all that custom hardware today, would really take the fight to Sony and Canon. I suppose the nearest we have today is what Nikon is doing.

Zf is an interesting one. I find 10bit H.265 offers 99% of image quality, with N-RAW that extra 1% for 2000% larger file size. So although the Z8 is fancy and everything, it really only has 4K/120fps that floats my boat creatively, over the Zf. So in that respect the Zf is very good at 1800 euros currently, with the December discounts. I had a go of one, and the surprisingly thing was that they went to the effort of brass nobs on top, and the worst kind of Z50 bargain bin plastic buttons on the back, which is a very confusing mismatch of build quality and feel. So that back of the camera kind of sours the overall body with all those nice materials on it, and I don't like the silly Micro SD card slot in the base. It should really have proper dual card slots on the side like an X-H2. Aside from that, great deal and preferable for me over something more work-a-day like an EOS R6 Mark II. Only dilemma is that for just 300 euros more you can get... 8K RAW 4K 120fps Full frame 45 megapixel stills And yes that is the spec not of the current latest and greatest Sony a1 II but the good old hand grenade, our friend EOS R5. It's just a pity the EOS R5 specs are not in the Zf!