Andrew Reid

Don't go on about your Toyota at a Ferrari enthusiasts club.

You point to a reputable link that shows Sony and Panasonic's camera divisions are loss making non-profitable entitles then!

Anybody that needs good 1080p. Remember, the 6D Mark II's 1080p mode should really be labeled standard definition "540p", with moire. They should put Moire as a sludge coloured badge on the side of the box. It's practically the same camera. Only difference is sensor size. A Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 will give the 80D a very similar image to the best F2.8 zoom on the 6D Mk II for much less money. You did! You said Sony, Panasonic, Fuji, etc. aren't profitable so that only leaves two that are! It's just wrong! If they were not profitable they would not be in the business for 15+ years and bringing out new stuff every few months! Yes Sony outselling Nikon full frame cameras... That's not what I call "in the red"! C'mooooooooon.

So only Canon and Nikon are profitable? Sony is actually now ahead of Nikon on the US market for all interchangeable lens photography equipment. They had record sales in 2017 and outgrew a contracting overall market minus-Sony made up of a drifting Canon and Nikon going slowly nowhere. As for Panasonic, well you only have to look around the streets in most major cities worldwide to see mass-market consumers using their G series mirrorless cameras. Find any tourist hotspot in the world and take a sample. It's not all Canon and Nikon. I don't know about you, but I would mind having the proceeds from some of those sales in MY bank account For Sony meanwhile, the sensor business IS part of the camera business, and if you add smartphone photography to the mix then Sony has a larger part to play in worldwide sales of cameras than even Canon. For most of it's life Samsung's camera division did not bleed money. It was only in the final 1-2 years that sales saw a dramatic downturn because the bulk of Samsung's market share was in the low-end products that smartphones were killing off. That's why at the last moment they switched to the high-end with the NX1 and courted us filmmakers and enthusiasts, but in the end they felt it was time to pull the plug because of the continuing low sales and that frankly that a gargantuan company the size of Samsung had bigger fish to fry like military contracts for tank building, ship building and worldwide billion dollar smartphone market. In terms of photography they didn't have the kind of loyal sheep to fall back on as Canon and Nikon do so it was always going to be one of their smaller profit lines, selling NX1s to filmmakers

A high performance Ferrari isn't going to be as reliable as a Toyota you drive to the supermarket. The NX1 is many many times the performance of the Canon and Nikon cameras in terms of the internal processing. Personally I've never had it crash due to heat. It crashes on occasion due to the firmware, the hack, and the fact Samsung have stopped patching it. What lens did you have on the A7R II? If it's via an adapter then it may not even be the fault of the camera. Personally I have never ever had my A7S II crash during a stills shoot. Or a video shoot, come to think of it. I'm sorry you had a worse than average experience. It's not normal. Sure, with certain cameras especially the A6500's lack of conservative heat-management, Sony do need to focus on that last 1-2% of reliability but I'd rather the occasional hang in high performance mode than a permanently crippled low performance mode as found at Canon and Nikon. By the way people should be careful about using stats like "in 2013 Mirrorless was only 5% of shipments" Shipments can go down at same time as sales going up, for example if the models are high-end like the A7R II as they are sold for a much higher price but in smaller quantities than the low-end mirrorless shite by the bucket load.

A larger sensor needs more voltage and runs warmer, but it depends on the design. Copper or aluminium? Stacked? BSI? What's the pixel architecture? Etc. etc. 20MP is 20MP. As far as the image processor goes. 4K is just 8MP. Sony can pull off 20MP at 240fps on the RX100 V in the body the size of a pocket compact, with a tiny battery. So no excuses for Canon... Their own in-house full frame CMOS technology has been 4K capable since 2012 (1D C).

That quotes the Nikkei article that Panasonic ended up having to disprove in public because of how badly worded it was "dismantling camera division" when it was actually just a normal restructuring of the pro and consumer departments for marketing reasons. Also ThePhobloggrapher article seems to be written by a child.

On the stills side they are behind with mirrorless, with no real premium or pro model. The M5 is a PowerShot, basically. The lens range just isn't there for Canon in mirrorless and that takes a lot of time to develop. They have no presence in medium format either. Their 50MP sensor is behind Sony's 42MP on noise, 4K video, dynamic range, etc. 5D Mark IV sensor is behind Sony as well. So yeah, photographers are starting to shuffle in their seats as well.

I agree 100%. Canon need a change of management in Japan with relation to the photographic business as they are killing enthusiasm for the products with the laser-focus on profit margins.

Panasonic and Sony are not in the red with their camera businesses!

Canon DO make their own sensors. They have also bought in Sony chips occasionally like the 20MP 1" CMOS. Canon's sensors put out a raw image on every single one of their cameras and the 80D is no different, they have always led the way with 14bit colour, very good sensor output, the problem comes to when this is hacked down to the stock H.264 video mode and the lack of willingness to employ a pixel binning method on the sensor that makes a bit of effort to reduce moire & aliasing. They have only done it twice - with the 5D Mark III and 1D X / 1D C 1080p. The 80D doesn't just look soft compared to Magic Lantern raw. It lacks the dynamic range, the colour depth, the colour sampling and the uncompressed look. So in danger of going over the same ground we've been going over since 2010 with Canon, perhaps for sake of expediency we should stop trying to defend them and disagreeing with me when I call them out, and get fully behind the campaign to have them give us better value for our money. I have to correct you here. A 20MP or 24MP crop sensor is the same amount of pixels as a 20MP or 24MP full frame sensor! Trust me it's not a good business strategy to leave 4K and good video features out of the 6D Mark II. It wouldn't even have hurt the profit margin of the camera as the technology already exists and is cheap to implement. They've lost tens of thousands of sales. They do. Why else do they listen? Why bother?! Because those are your direct competitors in photography and video! Speculation.

Ah I see your point now. I'd still give the credit to A1ex over a Canon insider though. It's very unlikely they've had leaks from Canon programmers. The results would have been more significant and have more impact.

Maybe, but it would have a completely different look if they did that. All I am saying is he did it for a reason... Dogme 95, low-fi digital look. It's an artistic choice.

I loved what he did with that. It's an Apple commercial, but such good fun. Always loved his style and the Daft Punk videos!

It really did look terrible on a technical level. But so does Dogme 95 stuff in general. I think Dod Mantle did it on purpose. I find it quite an interesting piece and was moved enough to write an article about it so I guess that's job done from the DP. It would be boring if all interviews and documentaries were polished turds, with glossy shot after glossy shot... What's the point?

Don't start dragging this one off topic as well. My opinion of the 80D is irrelevant beyond the fact it shoots really quite terrible 1080. The ergonomics are good and Dual Pixel AF is great, which makes it all the more a shame that the stuff I am talking about in the article applies to this camera 100%.

Yes, with very high quality 1080p in S35 mode.

Don't be silly. It didn't happen, and you have no proof. This is so incredibly incorrect. Magic Lantern raw video has been a steady stream of development and it was never 'dead'. Thank you!

It's not a thesis, and these are real people's votes you're so glibly dismissive of.

In 2009 Canon introduced a disruptive technology. His name was the 5D Mark II and it was the devil incarnate. At the time they had a pro line-up of video camcorders like the XL2 which were used by filmmakers all over the world. Canon's 60+ year old management probably thought they'd just killed an entire business, by accident, with a consumer DSLR. Read the full article

Richard and Lars are great on the technical side at DPReview. Much respect! The rest of the team come across through their work as clickbait obsessed hipsters. Someone else I consider a friend, Mattias, is on a really negative anti-video path right now and I just hope you snap out of it. I just bought a Leica T for stills because of your YouTube channel. You're an inspiration and a huge talent. Why do you have to sour it by being devils advocate all the time? A handy test subject. I have the Hue LEDs as well and they are hell for banding. Very fast pulsing refresh rate to generate colour. So the fundamental tech is similar to the LED advertising boards. Exactly, you see the problem, and switch. That's why we need global shutter to come of age... taking ages! If on Richard had some input on the Jared-based article... It could have been a great lesson on when to shoot electronic, when to shoot mechanical, instead of a 'let's slam an innovative camera for clicks' piece. The only way Sony could have avoided the shock-horror coverage is to put a global shutter on there and it just isn't feasible in 2017 with the current expectations for low light performance, colour, battery economy and so on.

For those that don't see it, it's on me to explain it better: DPR run sponsored content and advertorial, which is often thinly disguised by appearance aside from the tags lost at the bottom of the page DPR are paid by Canon for the sponsored content DPR are owned by Amazon, with the end goal to sell more cameras Some people may not mind this or even see the implications but you have to appreciate that when you take money from someone you are beholden to them in terms of maintaining a good relationship. It's really that simple. In order to maintain the good relationship and carry on going to the PR events for new camera releases, the unspoken rule is - Don't criticise too heavily (6D Mark II) Favour the manufacturer who is paying the most Answer to Amazon, after all they are the owners and expect results There are two issues here, maybe some confusion as to how they relate. Let's look at the 6D Mark II coverage on DPReview first. For nearly every other site and blogger (including myself) the lack of 4K was big news. This camera warrants strong criticism for lacking good video and the crowds agree - see the massive Reddit thread, forum reactions, Kai's video even and ironically Jared's video for clicks. They all criticise it for the lack of 4K. DPR ducked it. There is some tiny line about it and it's glossed over, but it warranted an entire article on the lack of 4K and the soft 1080p and moire. Why? Because at least 1/3rd of the potential customer base for this camera is expecting it to shoot very good video. Some may not care. So what? That's a moot point. The crux of it is, DPR's editor is trying to maintain the close relationship with Canon's PR team, to keep the sponsored content onboard. So the criticism is watered down compared to EOSHD and others. This isn't hard to understand. And now to the crux of what I am saying about the A9... Did the A9 warrant a front page sticky post about banding? A big long post warning sports shooters to be careful of the electronic shutter? Yes it did. But the 6D Mark II warranted one about the shit video mode, and only the A9 got it in the neck. And that to me is deeply suspicious. Then there is a separate issue with the A9 coverage and that it is the research is flawed clickbait and blown way out of proportion. The problem with Jared's clickbate in the first place is that he only tested the electronic shutter at the football match and not the mechanical one. Any talented pro would have immediately changed the settings at the first sight of banding and had the technical knowledge to understand what was going on immediately. Had he done so he'd have got a different result and I for one would be interested to see if it fixed the problem, which would have made for an entirely different kind of article and video. Instead we are none-the-wiser. How is this useful? The only take-away we have from the article on DPR is that the A9 has a serious banding problem. ... and that sports shooters who are the main target audience for the Sony camera should think very carefully about not buying it. This is absolutely disastrous PR for Sony and a real trophy piece for Canon in persuading sports shooters, their key pro customer, to stay with the 1D X range and L lenses. Sony's engineers and innovative technology does not deserve this kind of publicity. Electronic shutters are the future and have huge benefits. Sony should be rewarded for innovating. Instead they are scolded for it and Canon get of the hook completely free for having a lazy, un-innovative product that doesn't even try. No electronic shutter. No 20fps. No 4K. No 5 axis stabilisation. No EVF. And it doesn't end here... The two most-read A9 pieces on DPR in the past 2 months have been about why the main target audience for the camera should think twice about buying it instead of a Canon. What's worse is both were flawed pieces of writing and research. The article about a Canon pro making a hypothetical switch was pure tosh. They priced all the Canon gear way too low on the used market and then claimed it would cost 10's of thousands of dollars for pros to sell-up and switch lenses, even though all pros are different and not all of them need to suddenly replace $30,000 worth of telephoto lenses in order to pick up an A9. The article was out of touch because for many pros, making the switch is as simple as buying a few lenses and the body, or using their existing Canon lenses, depending on their line of work. And the article didn't even apply to enthusiasts... it completely forgot about them and again the main take-away from this pro-Canon propaganda was... --- So when, dear DPR, is Canon going to get it in the neck in the same way? I'm not fucking holding my breath! You all saw the Canon Rumors poll which is in no way a video-orientated site and very much full to the brim of photographers... Nearly 40% of these photographers said they wanted 4K video. So if you look at the narrative at DPR it is out of step with the people... They're not addressing the negative side of Canon's products in the way that I and others expect them to do as reviewers. When I tried to do it in my 5D Mark III review, it was the beginning of the end for me as a writer at DPReview... I know it first hand! I've had account managers from retailers come up to me out of the blue at trade shows saying, we agree 100% with what you write about Canon, but in no way can give you an affiliate account because Canon are one of our biggest manufacturer accounts. With all due respect to Mattias (and I have a ton), You're not the one who has been forced out of DPReview by Barney who find my truth-bearing a bit inconvenient. I know what I am talking about here and it's rude to suggest I don't. So please bear with me... and try to appreciate the wider picture. It is not just about one article. The least Jared can do is be more balanced and creative.... It's obvious that a 7700hz refresh rate light source interferes with a rolling shutter. 7700HZ!! So give us a fucking solution! There was one right in front of him on the A9 and he chose to ignore it! Don't dress it up for clicks and make a big attention grabbing headline out if it as if to paint the A9 as broken for all intents and purposes. Otherwise the manufacturers won't bother innovating and everything new they introduce will be as conservative as possible so to avoid sales-killing problems like this. Also let's see DPR readdress the balance to... 1. Test the damned mechanical shutter. Take Jared and his A9 back to that stadium and get him to do what any pro worth their salt does on encountering a problem... Use an alternative method available right in front of you! It's not hard! 2. Tell us how the mechanical and electronic shutter compare with regards to the banding so we can see how the solution stacks up! 3. Test head to head vs the Canon and Nikon pro DSLR cameras and see if they have banding too. Some pros claim they do. So let's see it! 4. Give Sony some fucking credit for being innovative... 20fps!! 4K! Then when it comes to the 6D Mark II which underperforms by 5 years with regards to video, THAT is when the headline is warranted. That is a proper fucking headline. This effects each and every single person who will buy the camera, not just the ones who happen to use it at a sports ground with 7700hz ad boards without realising that maybe they should avoid using the electronic shutter! DUH!

Read the fucking article FFS.

Don't post personal info please bamigoreng. Why can't you speak for it? It's right in front of you. Try posting a link to EOSHD on their forums. Then you can perhaps speak up about it... You know, like someone with a spine and principals. This is one sentence in a big article praising the camera. And it only criticises it for one thing. Most of the people reading it aren't even pros looking for a 'low-cost' B camera. $2000 is a lot of money for enthusiasts. The 6D Mark II is quite fucking expensive for them, and it doesn't even have 4K. If he'd have said that, my respect for Barney would have increased, instead of his usual softly-softly approach to soft-pawing his critique out there to the manufacturers. Which is how they keep getting away with such distain for their customers in the first place (surrounded by YES MEN) It's one in a serious of negative A9 articles, you should learn to read between the lines. They should have shot with a Canon or Nikon under the exact same circumstances and done a proper evaluation of it across a range of cameras. Instead they chose to hold aloft some clickbate from youtube and do an analysis of the clickbate. The guy who did the original test shots, didn't even try the mechanical shutter to see what impact it would make on the banding. Until a global shutter comes along, you are going to get interference patterns sometimes on an electronic shutter...The article makes no mention of how every single rolling shutter system in the world even an Arri Alexa would struggle under those conditions... It just lays it all at the A9's door and then scampers off into the distance scott free. And in the same breath they praise the 6D Mark II and don't really mind that it lacks 4K. 6D doesn't even HAVE an electronic shutter at 20fps, 24MP RAW.... Yet Sony does and THEY get a kicking for it! Then put it in the headline then! "Very slight problem in 2% of shots at a particular sports ground"! Oh but that wouldn't be clickbait enough would it?!

Your brother may have used it, you haven't, so it's a second hand opinion you've got of it. That 10bit LOG doesn't quite stand up to RAW isn't news. But it's the best codec and image processor available for the money with the most features and the nicest form factor. All are important here.