Andrew Reid

  You could always convert the H.264 4K to H.265 - reduce file sizes while maintaining same image quality.   I'm hearing from early GH4 shooters in the US that they can get 29 minutes of 4K on one 64GB card. That doesn't tally with my maths. I'd through you'd get more on the card than that. But let's see.

"Newer SD card system."   I'd prefer if future cameras went to CFast. SD cards are a bit flimsy.   "Add higer bit rates for 4K .. (100 is not alot GH4)"   100 is a lot actually! With the next generation codecs bitrate becomes less important. H.265 will deliver far more image quality for the same bitrate.   "and more bith depth. . 12 bit would be good. (perhaps only via sata connector)"   I personally don't need 12bit. Can't tell the difference between 10bit and 12bit.   "add higher frame rate. 48FPS at least for 4K .. would be great"   Agree with this one, slow-mo must continue unabated into the 4K era.   "Add an external sata connector so users can record to an SSD if the high FPS + bitdepth require too much from the SD cards."   eSATA connectors are too wobbly. Solution is to have CFast cards with same performance, price and capacities as SSD cards and just have it do it all in-camera.

It's ironic that some on this thread are saying "look at the broader picture, not just resolution" and then constantly repeating that they won't be buying the GH4 because it doesn't do one small feature of the overall image (4:2:2 internally).   Actually it does do 4:2:2 internally. The whole image pipeline is 4:2:2 until the compression kicks in and goes to 4:2:0. That counts for something.   Furthermore a full pixel readout from the sensor with true 4:2:2 sampling internally is more important than the final compression format. Want proof? See the Nikon D800 internal 4:2:0 vs HDMI 4:2:2... Not much difference, and still lots of aliasing and stair stepping. 4:2:2 is actually a very minor thing in the grand scale of things. Pixel binning, line skipping, all that stuff - there's no point having 4:2:2 if you are doing that. In 4K on the GH4 you have no pixel binning or line skipping, it's a full pixel readout, like a crop of a 16MP JPEG still to 8MP. If you're not satisfied by that at $2k then you really need to reassess your expectations. Feel free to spend $12,000 on the 1D C if you want internal 4:2:2 in 4K.

  Tiresome. I didn't say people don't give a rats ass about 4:2:2 I said most people don't give a rats ass about having their camera on a short-list drawn up by a man in a cupboard at television centre.

  I'm sure Panasonic would love to see you an AF200 instead! Let's see what comes at NAB.   (For the record I have no idea if such a thing even exists).

  My advice is add the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera as a B-camera for 4:2:2 when you need it.   Indeed Panasonic have a big broadcast presence and they probably want to sell broadcast cameras, by not giving the GH4 4:2:2 internal that's probably one way to sell those more expensive models.

I've taken your argument back in time a bit and resized your image to SD.   Same argument, same flaw, but by taking it back in time hopefully you will see the flaws more clearly.     Technological progress is essential!

  Some very good points in here Tim.   Seemingly you're coming at this from the perspective of a professional and you want a broadcast ready 4:2:2 camera. The article wasn't quite aimed at you, more towards the affordable camera / DSLR crowd. That's why I don't mark down the GH4 very harshly for the lack of internal 4:2:2. Most shooters don't give a rats ass about whether their camera is BBC accredited or not. You're right on the placement of the HDMI port though. It's not ideal. Would rather see it on the right and full sized. As for WHY the internal codec lacks 4:2:2 sampling despite it being in the imaging pipeline right up until the final compression stages, it may or may not be a product segmentation issue. I expect Atomos and Convergent Design probably had a large say in it if they've been involved in product feedback with Panasonic. It's absolutely in their interest to see the spec of HDMI come up a bit, because it's been poor so far. It's also in their interests to see internal codecs stay relatively basic. Anyway enough speculation...   PL and native MFT lenses on the GH4 I see as an advantage, because neither go on the Blackmagic EF mount. Yes Canon glass is great but you will at some point be able to put it on the GH4 with full electronic functionality.   For DR specs I am going off what I am told by Panasonic and Blackmagic plus a visual evaluation of the footage based on my experience with other cameras. You're right, this can't be independantly verified until the cameras ship and are tested. I'd be very surprised if the GH4 doesn't have similar dynamic range to the C300.   In a professional setting what lets down the Blackmagic is audio. Sucks!

  P2 not necessary. Will take UHS speed SD cards.

Already we have 2 affordable 4K interchangeable lens cinema cameras due and we're only a month into 2014. Red shipped the first professional 4K cameras in 2007 but since then the rate of progress needed to commercialise such powerful hardware and sell it to consumers for $2000 in the case of the GH4 and $4000 in the case of the Blackmagic Production Camera has been relatively speedy. Quicker than the time taken for full frame DSLRs to break the $2000 price barrier. Neither camera is entirely finished yet but I've seen footage from both the new cameras and shot with their predecessors for much of 2013. Here's my opinion on how their strengths and weaknesses are going to work out... Read the full article here

  The external add-on isn't a "4K add-on" it is a HD-SDI and XLR add-on, you don't need the external add-on or a external recorder for 4K on the GH4 it does it internally. You know that right?! Surely you do. So are you just trying to make things look worse than they actually are with your list? If so I think that's a bit unfair.   Hopefully available by the end of the year? Try April at the latest (TBC)!   As for form factor, clunky is not a word I'd use to describe the GH4. Incidentally the Blackmagic is a lot heavier, the wrong shape, has no articulated screen, and a very cut down feature set in comparison. Still love Blackmagic but you've gotta state the facts!   My view of it is as follows...   BMPC 4K 1.5x crop Super 35mm sensor (1.0x crop in cinematography terms) EF mount (good if you have lots of nice Canon EF lenses, not so good if you have Micro Four Thirds or lenses requiring a mirrorless mount) Global shutter - nice - but comes at expense of dynamic range and low light 10bit ProRes - very nice Raw - great for heavy grading and VFX work   GH4 2.17x crop in 4096x2160 mode, 1.7x crop with Speed Booster in 4K mode (1.2x crop in cinematography terms) Mirrorless mount Better low light performance (goes up to ISO 6400 in 4K mode) 8bit 4:2:0 internal recording may lead to some artefacts and won't grade as well as ProRes, but it will still look stunning Better audio support and quality, with optional XLR box Articulated screen 16MP stills Built in EVF 10bit 4:2:2 available to external recorder Larger feature set   The Blackmagic Production Camera has enough unique features to be considered for certain jobs. The GH4 is the better all rounder.   If you need global shutter, EF mount, 10bit ProRes internal and raw, but don't mind the very basic feature set overall, basic ergonomics, heavier weight overall, need for external battery and poor low light performance go Blackmagic.   If you need mirrorless mount, better ergonomics, likely better 1080p especially via HDMI, better audio, more features, smaller form factor and internal battery go GH4.   Dynamic range probably quite similar on the pair.   And on price, the GH4 is a lot cheaper. You don't NEED the external box. You can shoot with it like you can the GH3. The Blackmagic puts more demands on storage space and processing power, and needs an external battery plus SSDs.

  Thanks, Herdwhite will be glad to hear that - it's actually Reflecktor he used as a reference point for the final mix. Not too loud and with plenty of space to let the different elements breathe a bit.   Next Herdwhite song takes a completely different sound altogether. We plan to make this zero budget music video thing a regular occurrence :)

  I think your attitude is persistently nasty and you're heading for the door.

  The main reason I shot raw was to learn DaVinci Resolve and make full use of the Blackmagic cameras and make use of a 5D Mark III liberated from the hum-ho stock video mode. Raw gave me lovely ProRes and much better resolution and colour on the 5D Mark III so I am very grateful for it and the efforts of Magic Lantern.   But given the choice I will always choose a compressed codec over raw, as long as the image quality is in the ballpark, I don't have an overwhelming desire to spend hours in Resolve doing heavy grading work on everything I shoot. There's also space considerations and it does creep up on you after a while with the Cinema DNG files.   Raw is still a GREAT solution for the 5D Mark III and unshackling that beautiful full frame sensor.   In future though, I'd rather just have a good compressed codec.

  To be exact I think it's 2.17x in 4096 and 2.33x in 3840.   In order words the 4096 x 2160 DCI 4K mode is 17% smaller than the sensor area used in 16:9 1080p mode.

  So what's new? Anything at all? Just better in low light?   Oh dear. Not good news for future Blackmagic cameras is it...

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Not a fan of technological progress are we Quirky? :)

Just to be clear (as if it wasn't already) Blackmagic haven't announced anything, this sensor is from Fairchild Imaging.

A parrot could be the new gold standard for testing moire!   How bad is it on a scale of 1-10 Bryan, is the moire level on tricky shots similar to any other cameras like the Blackmagic? Better than GH3?   I think it could be a 4-2-0 artefact rather than a moire pattern?   I have one remaining question mark on the GH4 - whats the 4K mini-HDMI output like? 10bit or 8bit? Playback mode only, or is it live and uncompressed? That could be great with the Odyssey.

  Indeed, and nail the focus as well. Quite important for 4K. Time to stop down a bit!

No, two 11 bit ones.   Now the question is - how are they used?

It's an open secret that the Blackmagic Cinema Camera was based around a sCMOS sensor from Fairchild Imaging. Now the company has announced it's successor, the sCMOS 2.0 Read the full article here

  Shame MoVi gave up the ghost, I feel the GH4 and MoVi could have a good marriage if only they'd get on better ;)   GH4 is going to be popular for aerial multicopter shots I feel. The detail on the ground just pops out at you. Currently other 4K solutions are either not as good or much larger. Even the Blackmagic Production Camera is much heavier.   I can't wait to see what it looks like with my Cooke PL lenses on, try as I might PL to 5D Mark III just won't go ;)   Did the 4K internal codec stand up well in post Bryan?

Are you the shooter Bryan? Fantastic job.   What lenses?