Andrew Reid

I reckon the camera industry will see erosion into the enthusiast market The P40 Pro and S20 Ultra are simply too good not to use them for street photos. I can get stealthy shots with these that are simply not possible with a dedicated camera. Would take one of these over GR III or X100 any day. Everybody thinks I am taking a selfie. Nobody thinks people take photos with the rear facing camera any more 😂 In fact these highly detailed telephoto cameras like on the P40 Pro+ (10x!) are a bit of a privacy concern! The video is coming along a long way as well and live shallow DOF will improve in the future along with low light.

Yes it absolutely was marketed at professionals for video. So does that make it a professional video tool? In my view, yes! It doesn't have to be a C500 Mark II with SDI and XLR jacks to be marketed at professionals for cinematography, as Canon is doing with the R5. And you expect it to do what it says on the tin as well. Not everybody will research the overheating problems before buying one. Yes well they could be in for a surprise as well because in stills mode, live-view = video. It is continuously doing a video feed to the LCD and EVF in stills mode. So let's see how it lasts in that mode over the duration of say, a wedding.

With 28 pages to get through, it's tricky enough for people to get the required good info that is nested in this thread. Please refrain from further argumentative chatting that takes up so much room. No disrespect to any one person but we now have PAGES of it! Not good. If we are going to continue to fill page after page with opinion soup, the good info is going to get buried and missed by those coming in from Google. And there's a lot of traffic to this post at the moment. Please can we concentrate on informing those people who come to us for help. Thank you. A new test has come out, which seems to have been written with one eye on the Canon marketing department. Nevertheless it is useful to see more results come in. https://www.eoshd.com/news/opinion-on-dpreviews-canon-eos-r5-overheating-test-in-4k/ The problem with DPReview's test though is that nobody actually shoots like this, and same goes for Canon's official test. You are not usually straight into a 30 minute take from cold at start of the day without so much as a few mins in live-view for composition. And you do not take 30 minute breaks in-between 30 min interview takes. So I would like to see a proper real-world test that lasts for a day's shoot 3-7 hours. The camera is turned on in live-view for the duration, with shorter 30 second to 2 min takes recorded throughout that 3-7 hour shooting day. With no 30 min or 1 hour resting periods. Let's see how it performs in the REAL world. For those of us in cooler climates I would like to see a test on a cloudy day, 20c as well. If anyone actually has a camera and can contribute to this thread in a positive way I'm all for it!

P40 Pro is the best smartphone camera out there in 2020. The dilemma is this... Google Services hack works, but is flakey. I have it working, but for how long? First time I tried, took me 5 hours to get it working and then reset itself after I restarted the handset! Phone overall is not as nice in the hand as the Samsung S20 Ultra. A sharp metal edge at bottom digs into skin. Speaker is mediocre. Screen is smaller than I'd like (I am a Note 10+ / iPhone XS Max guy). But yes, the camera especially 5x zoom and ultra wide is in different league to the Samsung S20 Ultra 5x and ultra wide, especially in low light. The main camera is better to pixel peep than the S20 Ultra as well, but I prefer the colours sometimes on the S20 Ultra. P40 Pro dynamic range in the Leica colour modes is limited, and the HDR is laid on too much in the normal mode. The RAW files are amazing. The S20 Ultra RAW files are noisier and not as sharp. So thumbs up for the P40 Pro camera in terms of hardware. Best sensor, best lenses, best zoom and best ultra wide sensor and lens. However in reality, as an all-round phone the S20 Ultra feels more premium. Just another level up in terms of build, design, overall experience. That is not to say the P40 Pro is not also very good in these areas. These are all top end phones. Next up the Xiaomi Mi 10 Pro has a very good main sensor. But it is let down by the processing with dreadful skin tones and poor quality lenses. The zoom isn't as good, nether is ultra wide camera. The biggest problem however is how susceptible it is to slight finger prints on lens. Even almost unnoticeable amounts of greese will cause huge vertical or horizontal flares on the image whereas an iPhone doesn't do this. But the kicker is the Mi 10 Pro main sensor images are better than S20 Ultra with same sensor!! So Xiaomi got more out of the Samsung sensor than Samsung's own engineers. Xiaomi went for resolution with 2x2 binning from the 108MP. Whereas Samsung went for... I don't know what... 12MP 3x3 binning with over sharpening ramped up! But I has good dynamic range and colour, satisfying skin tones. All in all... I wish I could transplant the P40 Pro camera hardware into the S20 Ultra. My iPhone XS Max still has the most natural looking images of all of them straight out of camera with no additional processing, but it feels dated in technical terms and dreadful zoom ability in comparison to the folded periscope optics of the S20 Ultra and P40 Pro. By the way the 8K video on Mi 10 Pro and S20 Ultra is interesting. I'm comparing both at the moment. The P40 Pro video is good too in 4K/60p, but it lacks 8K. I feel like keeping the P40 Pro for the camera and using S20 Ultra as daily driver. It is an extraordinary street photography camera, is the P40 Pro, with amazingly deep depth of field on the 125mm 5x zoom end. This is unique. Everything is in focus in a telephoto frame! It's not so bad in dim light either! It nails focus every time in fact, whereas the S20 Ultra can sometimes be a bit hesitant.

Heat increases sensor noise in the image. It is the reason camera mods for astrophotography exist...

LOL. Are you implying he shouldn't have bothered?

I'm not going to go back and forth with you over conjecture. Read up on the facts and educate yourself then we can have a proper discussion about the overheating issues. Otherwise carry on as you are and get a nice ban.

This is to misunderstand the market the EOS R5 is aimed at. Canon did not go to the trouble of high video specs for nothing. It cost millions in R&D "just to please this small video crowd". It is not a small crowd at all. The modern photography business is about multimedia and mixed media. Both video and stills are needed by clients in the internet age. The EOS R5 is the mirrorless successor to the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV. The kind of people who use a 5D Mark IV will use an EOS R5. They need the reliability and the high performance video. This is a massive cock up by Canon and they will suffer big style if they don't recall it.

Correct. If someone is uninformed, I would encourage them to read up on the field tests and all the information I put in the one place here. No offence intended. https://www.eoshd.com/news/a-round-up-of-all-canon-eos-r5-r6-overheating-timings-and-field-tests/

Nikon DF Sorted. Now go away. I completely agree!! Seems still some push-back in Japan though.

Looks like Petapixel have done a u-turn on their earlier article. Funny how much stock people put in a meaningless PR statement https://petapixel.com/2020/07/31/canon-responds-there-is-no-delay-in-eos-r5-shipments/ @Cliff Totten - Thanks for the info. Of course in my opinion there are many reasons why Canon would allow the overheating to occur by design. Technologically, they may not be able to achieve the headline specs of 8K and oversampled 8K-4K or 4k/120p with their current processors and sensor technology without overheating problems. It's a lot of data. In terms of product segmentation, it may be that Canon assumed enthusiasts and photographers (maybe 90% of the target customer) would put up with a crippled video mode that cannot be considered for professional use. Ethical, not very. But you can see why they still want pros to purchase higher margin Cinema EOS cameras. I think the whole thing is disgusting on every level... the technological failure, the reliability, the marketing hype, the misleading specs, the segmentation by overheating and the unwillingness to provide a reliable tool even for $4000 that does what it says on the box. It is time to seriously question the company and for customers to stop buying these silly PR lines and defective products.

You are talking out of your arse I'm afraid. Processors become more efficient and use less energy by an order of magnitude every year.

Excuse me? What's so extreme? Matthew Allard thinks he's doing his journalistic duties asking a junior PR person in a team at a Canon subsidiary. The very definition of denial and repeating the PR line. If he bothered to dig deeper and even ask single retailer he would know there is something going on.

Q2 financial results down 93% in camera division https://www.eoshd.com/opinion/severe-canon-financial-results-see-profits-drop-93-covid-19-recalling-the-eos-r5-would-be-the-ethical-thing-to-do/

They better do. But let's be honest here, Canon is not your friend or mine. What they care about is the dividend, profit, shareholders and maximising all 3.

Well I finally watched it. Lost a few mins of my life. He's so incorrect on so many levels. Blames the HDMI output on 8K overheating. Then says it's a damn good 4K camera! As we know from other tests the external recording can increase 4K recording times, taking load off the image processor. If he'd used 4K internal recording, who knows what problems he would have. He isn't even honest in the video whether he shot 4K HQ or 4K pixel binned. Tries to gloss over it and pin it as an 8K only problem. Not even realising the sensor is doing 8K in the 4K HQ mode. There are other inaccuracies and dumb comments but those are the main things I noticed skipping through.

Petapixel have pulled together both Canon Rumors and my remarks at EOSHD in their piece on the shipments delay. https://petapixel.com/2020/07/30/canon-is-delaying-eos-r5-shipments-due-to-overheating-concerns-report/ I did not read the Canon Rumors post before writing my article so it is interesting that two separate sources are both effectively saying the same thing. Adorama in particular seems to be saying the same thing as the stores I asked in Berlin!

Why does every comment of yours has a massive elephant in the room? Nobody is criticising Canon for being conservative on the EOS R5 specs. You have to deliver the specs AND reliability, so that customers don't get a defective product. Not hard to understand is it?

I'd love to know your experience of this release so far... have you received your pre-order? Is the camera in stock anywhere to buy, online, or on the high-street? Here's what news I found today in Berlin: https://www.eoshd.com/news/will-canon-recall-the-eos-r5-i-asked-retailers-today-and-the-picture-is-grim/

Here's some news I had from asking around retailers today. Some shipments had arrived last week in very small quantities. Today and tomorrow were meant to be the days they pass them onto the first people who pre-ordered. The entire country of Germany, 83 million people received 70 units from Canon in Japan. The pre-order waiting list for just one store in Berlin was nearly 300 cameras. The biggest retailer I spoke to said they would not be getting 'any R5 until October earliest due to bugs'. When pressed further, he said the chain were unhappy at the reliability of the camera and the fact that Canon had asked the chain (largest electronic chain in Europe) to sign a new contract of incredible complexity and length, which has to be checked and will also result in weeks of delays. That the store was extremely unhappy with Canon and that they 'were going the way of Olympus if they keep up this behaviour'. Another store had received just 5 units. This was the largest photographic retailer store in the capital of Germany. It is extremely unusual to receive so few shipments of such a big, popular release. Not sure what the situation is like back home in the UK. Probably similar. I think the recall is on and will be announced next week.

What software did you use to read the RAW format res?

You can't trust any Sony A7S III test where the reviewer doesn't realise that you need to set the temp cut off to high in the menus. And you can't trust any reviewer who reviews a camera without knowing how to use it!

What?! S1H came out way before the EOS R5. If anything it's the other way around.

Their "electronic ND" is a composite stills mode only, it doesn't work in video.

The funny thing is Sony event admitted their white balance was all over the place on previous cameras, with the additional light sensor on the A7S III which tries to fix the problem. But skintones definitely still look whacked!