Andrew Reid

Haha. It wouldn't be cost effective. May as well get an 8K RED and be done with it. The hardware is a closed box, propriety and closed firmware too. Just rearranging the controls and rewiring them to fit a new chassis would be a complete nightmare. The closest any third party are going to get to making it usable is to have lots of active cooling going on and holes cut in the back of the case behind the screen, with a copper heatsink mounted directly on the LSI with thermal paste and a big fan... Ruins it ergonomically of course and the fan noise would be unacceptable. Weather sealing would be compromised and depending on the temperature sensor position the firmware might decide it is overheating when it isn't and shut off anyway. It would certainly be interesting to have a tear-down though and see what crimes against engineering Canon has achieved this time. DIGIC X is probably not even 7nm silicon. It is a product recall. Or consumer class action lawsuit awaits them. Sad but true. There are people at Canon who think like some of their customers. "If you want to shoot video get a video camera blah blah blah!" like the last 10 years never happened. There will be sales reps and store people who will say things like "it only costs $4000 and shoots 8K, do you really expect it to have no compromises" by which they mean "do you really expect it to WORK AS ADVERTISED silly customer!? Shut up and give us your $4k" This is just my opinion, I don't know what really goes on inside the heads of management at Canon but I think the whole thing is very conspiratorial. In my opinion the design is purposeful, 100%. There is no mistake. They wanted to compromise the video for pro work, so that those customers would continue to use Cinema EOS products which have an even higher margin. And I think they wanted to compromise it in such a way as to avoid the specs sheet looking rubbish. With just pixel binned 4K 30p, the perception would have been that Canon's technology was still behind the times compared to Sony, Fuji and Panasonic. So they have gone all out to change that perception and found another way to make sure professional videographers don't use it. To Canon it is a stills camera that does pixel binned 4K. To everyone else, I could have sworn it did 8K RAW and 4K/120p, and 4K oversampled from 8K too. Sure they mentioned something like that in the press release. Ah well.

Presumably Tilta have tested it before mass production. The problems I see with it are many. The layer of poorly conducting material between the CPU and copper heat spreader on the back of the Tilta fan. The power draw. The noise. It is 6200rpm! Obviously the onboard mic will be unusable with it attached even for syncing audio with a dual system mic. The fan spinning on set during recording is not what you want. Even with an external shotgun or boom mic. Then there is the ergonomic side. Those with beards who need to look through the EVF will get their hair caught in the blades. I think it's a publicity stunt to be honest. Even if it works to cool the camera, the noise and ergonomics of it are a joke professionally.

Yeah, was really looking forward to getting an EOS R5. Now if I do it will only be to review it and to test it, then it'll go back and play no part in my creative tool bag. Even as a second camera. I can't think of a single shoot where I could risk it.

Video needs a sustained and constant data rate. If the CPU has to thermal throttle, or the CFExpress has to cool down and is thermally throttling too, then dropped frames will occur and other problems. Also the constantly high data rate and demanding processing causes the heat to keep rising and rising. With stills, the camera is constantly supplying a live-view image to the EVF or back screen, but that image is pixel binned, low power, low quality compared to what's needed in 4K and 8K video mode. The camera stills heats up, it's still doing work, but it probably won't need to shut down completely. That said I'd be curious to see if there really is an extreme overheating phase in very hot ambient conditions where the entire camera shuts down and bang goes your photo shoot too. If the sensor itself gets hot, you get increased noise. It's all a bit of a shit-show really. If the camera gets hot in live-view and you end up with 0 minutes of 4K HQ, it may continue to shoot stills but becomes useless for us filmmakers. We have to leave the camera turned on and can't be babysitting it constantly.

Take all the components out, put it in a PC case with 12 LED fans 😂 Wheel it around on a trolly, some dry ice on bottom shelf just in case! You could get some really smooth tracking shots with the wheels.

Yeah for so much money, a shot loser, no thank you. I don't care if it shoots 22K carrot gold, if it's going to serve up nothing but a blank screen in the middle of a shoot it can sod off!

Or buy a competitor's camera that does what it's supposed to do and what it's advertised to do. Take the Panasonic S1H for instance. Netflix approved for reliability and image quality. Same price as the EOS R5. The people who need to wake up are those who keep using the 2008 argument that everybody interested in video should buy a $7000 camcorder. It is almost like the large sensor, interchangeable lens, affordable, small, discrete, creative, handheld, stabilised, hybrid stills and video revolution didn't get started for some people. I pity them. The wake up call is nobody's but Canon's. They will wake up when they notice the scale of the amount of cancelled pre-orders and returns!

If we want no holds barred technology, maybe we need to go back to the 60's!

My 8K smartphone has a passive cooling system, copper heat pipe, even a vapour chamber. No fan, and it's water proof. It's no thicker than the latest iPhone 11 Pro. But yes, EOS R5 is too small for a cooling system! Suuurrre Canon! It is merely a line they give to reps too stupid to understand the tech. There is far more going on here than meets the eye. I smell a conspiracy.

Shameful guy. The other thing is, people should do tests in more than just one climate and season before saying blanket statements like nobody will notice the overheating. Same goes for people like Jordan Drake. Just turning the camera on from cold and leaving it for an hour isn't a representative test, it's just one scenario out of 100's and there are literally a gazillion variables depending on the shoot. It'd say the unpredictable nature of this problem is the worst thing about it. If the camera hard a hard set limit of X number of minutes, it wouldn't be fantastic but it'd be better than the total shit show this has turned into. My opinion is that overheating is a 'feature' not a bug and that Canon thought they'd get away with it. Dispel the myth that they can't engineer modern spec video into a hybrid camera, blow Sony and Panasonic away by being first to 8K, claiming all the YouTube and shilling plaudits, then hope their loyal customers put up with the limitations. But it is not so much a 'limitation' as a defect. And that is the point where lawyers get involved and company reputations take a battering. Make no mistake. This is absolutely product recall territory. It is not the same as knowing the limits, and deciding to buy it anyway. It is about Canon completely misleading people into believing it's suitable for certain tasks, when it is actually a defective product.

Consumer groups and lawyers need to take a close look at this. I could release something with all sorts of made up claims, and if it doesn't do what it's sold to do, I am in the shit. Canon need to do a recall.

Yes got to respect Gerald. This is how I would have tested it as well. While nearly everyone else is failing to test it or covering up the results, he is actually shooting some intensive real-world use and getting to the point.

It just keeps getting more and more ridiculous. What was Jordan Drake doing in the EOS R6 review saying it's fine for 1 hour of oversampled 4K.... Is that what counts as a review on the most high profile digital photography site now... turn camera on for an hour, have a beer, come back? Total BS By the way I just re-bought a Panasonic G9, after sold my original ages ago. Will be checking out the new AF and 10bit 4K. The handling is superb. It isn't just about marketing it. It is about people spending thousands of dollars and expecting to use the key headline features. Sure, Canon could have marketed it as a line skipping 4k camera with just the low quality modes, and completely disabled the exotic features. But then that wouldn't sell many cameras would it? And if you are implying Canon should release the camera with 8K and not market it as 8K or even mention it, you are living in cloud cookoo land!

Shocking. Appalling.

And the most challenging situations apply to Johnnie's shoot?

Internal casing views. It looks like thermal pads conduct onto flat moulded surfaces for each chipset, on the magnesium alloy body itself which isn't a good conductor. There is a reason why PC CPU heatsinks are copper or aluminium and even smartphones contain copper.

https://www.eoshd.com/opinion/opinion-canon-r6-and-r5-heat-problems-risk-full-product-recall-class-action-lawsuit/ Looking at the internal circuit layout, it's amazing how many hot components Canon put close together. CFExpress media is almost backed into the image processor. The image processor is surrounded on both sides by what appears to be RAM. Behind that circuit board is the warm LCD backlighting when flush to the body. In front of the circuit is the warm sensor. There is literally nowhere for all the heat to go and worst of all it is centrally concentrated on the most thermally critical piece, the DIGIC X CPU in the centre. Without even a thin copper heat sink or slim heat pipe (like in a high end smartphone), there is no way of guiding the heat away from the critical components like the CPU. It really is no surprise then, if the camera is borderline defective.

Discussion can continue here in one place:

What's the source for the info "new heat dissipation system"? Please link to it.

EH? Clearly these things matter with this camera massively. So why not mention the info? Even the approximate minutes and hours? In order for us to know what his conditions on the shoot were and how long he ACTUALLY used the R6. For all we know, he could have done a 1 hour interview take, then it overheated and couldn't do subsequent shorter takes. Just in effect saying "I made a documentary, and erm, this camera wasn't suitable" is completely useless for anybody thinking of buying the R6 and working around the limitations.

Rep bullshit. On a separate note, let's reduce the number of overheating threads before the forum also overheats 🙂 I'll keep this one open for now, but overheating talk should all go in one place, don't you think....

Please continue from the other threads here. Those threads are too numerous and should be combined into one. Cheers

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That'll be the day. Most haven't even got past the denial stage! Sony's overheating was largely to do with the A6300. The A7S II was fine and has been a workhorse for videographers. The A6300 was one quarter of the price of the EOS R5 and very much a mid-range consumer point & shoot / slash enthusiast camera at a stretch. But the Canon EOS R5 is a $4000 professional tool. The A6300 wasn't exactly let off the hook, especially by me. It received a ton of criticism and rightly so, even thought it cost so much less than a professional camera that needs to be bullet proof reliable. I think Canon have made a catastrophic decision, and it will haunt them for a long time.

Except that isn't true. Didn't provide real world shooting times, not even rough estimates. Didn't talk about a real world shooting schedule, in terms of the amount of time the shoot lasted during the day. Didn't mention the average length of a take. Didn't say at what point during the shoot the overheating trouble began. Didn't estimate the resting gaps in-between. Or whether the camera even remained turned on during this time. Didn't say whether the indoor scenes had a lower temp than 28 degrees, due to air con, or other factors. Did not say when the ice pack was applied, how long for roughly, or whether lower ambient temps even made a difference - seems they didn't. But yes, praise away the "great job of providing real world information"! Not reading too much into it at all. Final warning. Agitate me again and you can go and use the DPReview Video forums instead.