Andrew Reid

Haha. Yeah it's just not worth the humiliation is it!! I was all set to order one as well but it just isn't worth the agro. Overheating, rolling shutter on Sony A6300 I could about stomach back in 2016 for £1200. But with a £4100 camera? No thanks. In fact the problem is far worse on the EOS R5 and R6 because the A6300 you could at least take stills with for hours without killing the 4K recording! There are other issues I don't like either - the rolling shutter and file sizes aren't very practical at all in some modes.

Yeah I've had that issue myself before and formatting did the trick. Sometimes a PC or Mac leaves hidden files in folders and the camera doesn't like that.

Looks like somebody is flip flopping. Oversampled 4K 24p is a feature that exists in the competition, often for up to one quarter of the price of the EOS R5, and half the price of an EOS R6. Take the EOS R6 overheating as an example. It shoots 4K from a 5K sensor readout. Competitor: Panasonic S1 4K from 6K sensor readout, $2000, full frame, 10bit codec and V-LOG No fan or vents. Weather sealed. So how come that is able to do it but the EOS R6 isn't. Maybe the Canon autofocus is to blame?! 😂 Is that going to be your next excuse. Sony A7 III oversampled from 6K. Sony A9 oversampled from 6K. Older crop sensor cameras have done oversampling for years. Smaller sensor but bigger data rate than EOS R6. X-T3 4K from 6K sensor readout GH5 4K from 5.5K sensor readout NX1 4K from 7K sensor... And that was in 2014!! And it doesn't matter if the EOS R5 has a 'groundbreaking feature not available anywhere else' if it doesn't work when you try to use it! HELLO?! I can claim my car does 200mph but if it blows up when it goes past 120 then it isn't much use is it?? So yes 4K/120p is all very well but if the camera is sitting there blinking with an error and refusing to record it during a shoot of upmost mission criticalness, it's worse than not even having it because it ruins the shoot. You cannot depend on it. You may bring it on a shoot for that. You may NEED the slow mo shot and plan for it. Write it into a script even. Then when it comes to the crunch the camera lets you down. It's a complete scandal. And yes it is exactly the same as needing to get somewhere in a car, but it doesn't arrive at the destination. "A7RIV, the Sony flagship, does not overheat because its only video mode is the R5 normal 4K mode" The A7S III should be the one you compare it to as that's the hybrid camera like the EOS R5, which shoots 10bit 4K 120p, that feature you claim nobody else has 😂 "It’s like having the best car on the market on most points, and have an extra bonus boost mode that gives you 0-100kmh in one second but only usable for 20min." 😂 It isn't 20 minutes!! It is in many cases 0 minutes. It is a variable and almost random impossible to anticipate cut off in the middle of a shot. No professional or artist or enthusiast can possibly tolerate it. The best car on the market is not one that goes 200mph sometimes and 0mph most of the time, refusing to start on the driveway. That car is in fact a bag of garbage that most people would return to the dealer after a week. And it will be the same with the R5 and R6 too.

Imagine you get a great opportunity to film a music video, could be a career turning point. You bring the EOS R5 and half the video ends up with completely different image quality than the other half, because you're forced to change modes!

Absolutely right. Remember the Samsung NX1. The sensor was allegedly capable of 4K 240fps in the lab, even in 2014. They could have chosen to implement 4K/60p or even 4k/120p with a faster processor, but the technology simply wasn't there, and Samsung didn't want to use RED style active cooling fan, vents, radiators, to increase the size and weight and cost of a $1500 hybrid camera. It had decent passive heat management and efficient processors for the time, and important thing - reliability. Canon must be seen to banish the perception that their technology lags behind. 8K RAW badge on the box at all costs. I do appreciate an 8K full pixel readout on a 45 megapixel full frame sensor but it must be done in a way that doesn't compromise reliability. Canon felt it would be ok to compromise that and push pros onto Cinema EOS cameras at an even higher cost and higher margin, in my opinion. It smacks of a cynical conspiracy. The reliable limits of their technology make 2015 standard A7R II spec pixel binned 4K/30p possible. They have gone way past the limits of their own technology and created a hand grenade. If they get sued, they deserve it 100%. Yes, consumer groups will have a field day with the advertising claims of the EOS R5 and R6. And quite rightly too. Not everybody reads EOSHD or follows Gerald Undone. A lot of pre-orders went in, before even basic overheating timings were made available. Some people don't even research cameras very deeply on the internet, they are attached to a brand, walk into a shop, see the latest flagship from their favourite brand, and make the decision on the spot. Then they realise it isn't as advertised. I can't imagine Apple, Samsung, Google getting away with that in phone market? So why does Canon think this is different...

I hope it shines a light on how compromised journalism is in the camera industry.

First try formatting the card. Then create the NIKON / CUSTOMPC folders as per the guide. They key bits in the guide are: The .NP3 files are for the full frame mirrorless Nikon Z7/Z6 The .NP2 files are for D850/D750/D5500/D5600 and newer DSLRs The .NCP files are for D800/D4S/D4/D600/D610/D5300 and older DSLRs ONE SET ONLY (NP3 or NP2 or NCP depending on your model) must be within the CUSTOMPC folder on the memory card to be seen by the camera. Do not place the ZIP files here (only the individual NCP or NP2 or NP3 picture profile files are recognised). Please note: older NCP / NP2 profiles have to be named PICCON01.NCP, PICCON02.NCP, PICCON03.NCP for the camera to recognise them. Please do not rename the files. Enter the main menus and navigate to MOVIE SHOOTING MENU*
 Scroll down and select MANAGE PICTURE CONTROL
 In this menu select LOAD/SAVE and then COPY TO CAMERA
 EOSHD Z-LOG should appear on screen. Confirm selection with OK.

In a Canon patent an EF lens adapter cooler with active fan and radiator was suggested. It was probably not released alongside the camera, in my opinion because it would reduce sales of native RF lenses. The shape of the camera in the patent clearly resembles the EOS R5. It remains to be seen if we'll see this adapter on sale, ever. Venting heat through the lens mount from the sensor probably doesn't do much for the LSI anyway, as that's on the other side. Unless the heat problem is actually with the sensor?

Haha. It wouldn't be cost effective. May as well get an 8K RED and be done with it. The hardware is a closed box, propriety and closed firmware too. Just rearranging the controls and rewiring them to fit a new chassis would be a complete nightmare. The closest any third party are going to get to making it usable is to have lots of active cooling going on and holes cut in the back of the case behind the screen, with a copper heatsink mounted directly on the LSI with thermal paste and a big fan... Ruins it ergonomically of course and the fan noise would be unacceptable. Weather sealing would be compromised and depending on the temperature sensor position the firmware might decide it is overheating when it isn't and shut off anyway. It would certainly be interesting to have a tear-down though and see what crimes against engineering Canon has achieved this time. DIGIC X is probably not even 7nm silicon. It is a product recall. Or consumer class action lawsuit awaits them. Sad but true. There are people at Canon who think like some of their customers. "If you want to shoot video get a video camera blah blah blah!" like the last 10 years never happened. There will be sales reps and store people who will say things like "it only costs $4000 and shoots 8K, do you really expect it to have no compromises" by which they mean "do you really expect it to WORK AS ADVERTISED silly customer!? Shut up and give us your $4k" This is just my opinion, I don't know what really goes on inside the heads of management at Canon but I think the whole thing is very conspiratorial. In my opinion the design is purposeful, 100%. There is no mistake. They wanted to compromise the video for pro work, so that those customers would continue to use Cinema EOS products which have an even higher margin. And I think they wanted to compromise it in such a way as to avoid the specs sheet looking rubbish. With just pixel binned 4K 30p, the perception would have been that Canon's technology was still behind the times compared to Sony, Fuji and Panasonic. So they have gone all out to change that perception and found another way to make sure professional videographers don't use it. To Canon it is a stills camera that does pixel binned 4K. To everyone else, I could have sworn it did 8K RAW and 4K/120p, and 4K oversampled from 8K too. Sure they mentioned something like that in the press release. Ah well.

Presumably Tilta have tested it before mass production. The problems I see with it are many. The layer of poorly conducting material between the CPU and copper heat spreader on the back of the Tilta fan. The power draw. The noise. It is 6200rpm! Obviously the onboard mic will be unusable with it attached even for syncing audio with a dual system mic. The fan spinning on set during recording is not what you want. Even with an external shotgun or boom mic. Then there is the ergonomic side. Those with beards who need to look through the EVF will get their hair caught in the blades. I think it's a publicity stunt to be honest. Even if it works to cool the camera, the noise and ergonomics of it are a joke professionally.

Yeah, was really looking forward to getting an EOS R5. Now if I do it will only be to review it and to test it, then it'll go back and play no part in my creative tool bag. Even as a second camera. I can't think of a single shoot where I could risk it.

Video needs a sustained and constant data rate. If the CPU has to thermal throttle, or the CFExpress has to cool down and is thermally throttling too, then dropped frames will occur and other problems. Also the constantly high data rate and demanding processing causes the heat to keep rising and rising. With stills, the camera is constantly supplying a live-view image to the EVF or back screen, but that image is pixel binned, low power, low quality compared to what's needed in 4K and 8K video mode. The camera stills heats up, it's still doing work, but it probably won't need to shut down completely. That said I'd be curious to see if there really is an extreme overheating phase in very hot ambient conditions where the entire camera shuts down and bang goes your photo shoot too. If the sensor itself gets hot, you get increased noise. It's all a bit of a shit-show really. If the camera gets hot in live-view and you end up with 0 minutes of 4K HQ, it may continue to shoot stills but becomes useless for us filmmakers. We have to leave the camera turned on and can't be babysitting it constantly.

Take all the components out, put it in a PC case with 12 LED fans 😂 Wheel it around on a trolly, some dry ice on bottom shelf just in case! You could get some really smooth tracking shots with the wheels.

Yeah for so much money, a shot loser, no thank you. I don't care if it shoots 22K carrot gold, if it's going to serve up nothing but a blank screen in the middle of a shoot it can sod off!

Or buy a competitor's camera that does what it's supposed to do and what it's advertised to do. Take the Panasonic S1H for instance. Netflix approved for reliability and image quality. Same price as the EOS R5. The people who need to wake up are those who keep using the 2008 argument that everybody interested in video should buy a $7000 camcorder. It is almost like the large sensor, interchangeable lens, affordable, small, discrete, creative, handheld, stabilised, hybrid stills and video revolution didn't get started for some people. I pity them. The wake up call is nobody's but Canon's. They will wake up when they notice the scale of the amount of cancelled pre-orders and returns!

If we want no holds barred technology, maybe we need to go back to the 60's!

My 8K smartphone has a passive cooling system, copper heat pipe, even a vapour chamber. No fan, and it's water proof. It's no thicker than the latest iPhone 11 Pro. But yes, EOS R5 is too small for a cooling system! Suuurrre Canon! It is merely a line they give to reps too stupid to understand the tech. There is far more going on here than meets the eye. I smell a conspiracy.

Shameful guy. The other thing is, people should do tests in more than just one climate and season before saying blanket statements like nobody will notice the overheating. Same goes for people like Jordan Drake. Just turning the camera on from cold and leaving it for an hour isn't a representative test, it's just one scenario out of 100's and there are literally a gazillion variables depending on the shoot. It'd say the unpredictable nature of this problem is the worst thing about it. If the camera hard a hard set limit of X number of minutes, it wouldn't be fantastic but it'd be better than the total shit show this has turned into. My opinion is that overheating is a 'feature' not a bug and that Canon thought they'd get away with it. Dispel the myth that they can't engineer modern spec video into a hybrid camera, blow Sony and Panasonic away by being first to 8K, claiming all the YouTube and shilling plaudits, then hope their loyal customers put up with the limitations. But it is not so much a 'limitation' as a defect. And that is the point where lawyers get involved and company reputations take a battering. Make no mistake. This is absolutely product recall territory. It is not the same as knowing the limits, and deciding to buy it anyway. It is about Canon completely misleading people into believing it's suitable for certain tasks, when it is actually a defective product.

Consumer groups and lawyers need to take a close look at this. I could release something with all sorts of made up claims, and if it doesn't do what it's sold to do, I am in the shit. Canon need to do a recall.

Yes got to respect Gerald. This is how I would have tested it as well. While nearly everyone else is failing to test it or covering up the results, he is actually shooting some intensive real-world use and getting to the point.

It just keeps getting more and more ridiculous. What was Jordan Drake doing in the EOS R6 review saying it's fine for 1 hour of oversampled 4K.... Is that what counts as a review on the most high profile digital photography site now... turn camera on for an hour, have a beer, come back? Total BS By the way I just re-bought a Panasonic G9, after sold my original ages ago. Will be checking out the new AF and 10bit 4K. The handling is superb. It isn't just about marketing it. It is about people spending thousands of dollars and expecting to use the key headline features. Sure, Canon could have marketed it as a line skipping 4k camera with just the low quality modes, and completely disabled the exotic features. But then that wouldn't sell many cameras would it? And if you are implying Canon should release the camera with 8K and not market it as 8K or even mention it, you are living in cloud cookoo land!

Shocking. Appalling.

And the most challenging situations apply to Johnnie's shoot?

Internal casing views. It looks like thermal pads conduct onto flat moulded surfaces for each chipset, on the magnesium alloy body itself which isn't a good conductor. There is a reason why PC CPU heatsinks are copper or aluminium and even smartphones contain copper.

https://www.eoshd.com/opinion/opinion-canon-r6-and-r5-heat-problems-risk-full-product-recall-class-action-lawsuit/ Looking at the internal circuit layout, it's amazing how many hot components Canon put close together. CFExpress media is almost backed into the image processor. The image processor is surrounded on both sides by what appears to be RAM. Behind that circuit board is the warm LCD backlighting when flush to the body. In front of the circuit is the warm sensor. There is literally nowhere for all the heat to go and worst of all it is centrally concentrated on the most thermally critical piece, the DIGIC X CPU in the centre. Without even a thin copper heat sink or slim heat pipe (like in a high end smartphone), there is no way of guiding the heat away from the critical components like the CPU. It really is no surprise then, if the camera is borderline defective.