FilmMan

Live Chat: [url="https://www.facebook.com/SonySuper35mm/app_294915730613062"]https://www.facebook.com/SonySuper35mm/app_294915730613062[/url]

Do we need a tighter belt to hold up the pants?

Hey, we need to be fair to Canon as they have been fair to its people. They listen and respond. :rolleyes: Anyone buying the C500? Price $25,999. There is a $3000 rebate to owners of the C300. Click on Rebates...Loyalty Program. [url="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/855975-REG/Canon_EOS_C500_Cinema_EOS.html"]http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/855975-REG/Canon_EOS_C500_Cinema_EOS.html[/url] Here's the product highlights: [b] Product Highlights[/b] [list] [*]4K RAW (4096 x 2160) Output [*]EF Lens Mount for Broad Compatibility [*]8.8 Mp Super 35mm-Size CMOS Sensor [*]Also Puts Out 2K, Quad HD & Full HD [*]2x 3G-SDI Outputs [*]50 Mb/s Proxy HD Recording to CF Card [*]10-Bit 4K RAW at Up to 60p [*]10-Bit 4K Half RAW at Up to 120p [*]12-Bit 2K 4:4:4 Signal at Up to 60p [*]Canon Log Gamma [/list] The C500 also has a body type in common with the C300. Featuring large, accessible buttons with ridges dividing them, the EOS C500 has been designed expressly for the craft of digital cinema. [color=#FF0000][b]Its signal output is similarly appropriate: At rates up to 60 frames per second, the 10-bit 4K RAW data stream output can be recorded to an approved external device ([i]sold separately[/i]) at full resolution.[/b][/color] Using a format called 4K half RAW, which halves the horizontal resolution, you can capture up to 120 fps to the external recorder by using both of the C500's 3G-SDI outputs.

Interesting: [url="http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?295765-Pmw-F5-amp-F55&p=1986227906&viewfull=1#post1986227906"]http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?295765-Pmw-F5-amp-F55&p=1986227906&viewfull=1#post1986227906[/url] First, thanks for the well-wishes to AbelCine and our staff. Our NY office is closed until we (and NYC) can figure out how to get it opened and staffed. Our email is down but Chicago and LA are open and doing business. Second, while you guys have hit on some of the great features of these new cameras, I fear you're missing some of the amazing innovations they include. Two formats can be recorded at once -- either one to the RAW recorder and one to the new SxS card or TWO DIFFERENT FORMATS TO THE INTERNAL CARDS SIMULTANEOUSLY. That's amazeballs. It means you have your editing proxy and master file at the same time without transcode. Or your master file along with a RAW archive copy for future use. And look at the kitting. Three different finder options. An improved LCD EVF, an OLED EVF and a 7" LCD. The EVFs have L-R adjustment along with a dual arm for fore-aft positioning. And the OLED is tiny and higher in rez. And someone show me another 7" LCD panel which is full rez. HD 1920x1080. You can use that as a finder or an onboard monitor. I want it for every other camera as well! One camera for 4K/2K/HD internal recording. RAW module snaps on like mounting a battery. New batteries are standard V-mount but more power in smaller package with greater # of run cycles. Or use your old bricks if you want. The basic camera nly uses 25w! Yes there's integrated shoulder pad available and a top handle for mounting the EVF, and by the time the camera is shipping Solid Camera, 3ality Technica, Wooden Camera, Shape and a number of others will have excellent accessories for the few things Sony may have missed (start searching boys). Oh by the way, did you notice that there's a complet new set of affordable PL mount lenses? A few of us beat them up pretty badly on their first crack at them, but they came back listening to learn what needed to be improved. F55 is the camera you'll all want to buy and F5 is the camera many of you can financially justify actually buying. But believe me you'll want them. [indent] Mitch Gross Applications Specialist AbelCine 212-462-0100 [email="mitch@abelcine.com"]mitch@abelcine.com[/email][/indent]

I'd hold on to the bidding. According to website in Europe, price of the F55 will be roughly $24,500. [url="http://www.creativeventures.be/sony-pmw-f55.html"]http://www.creativeventures.be/sony-pmw-f55.html[/url] A Red Epic M brains sells for $39,500 [url="http://www.red.com/store/products/epic-m-brain-only"]http://www.red.com/store/products/epic-m-brain-only[/url] With Sony, battery/charger, and other goodies will be included. Also Sony has global shutter on the F55. So what should the Red Epic M sell for. Remember the Scarlet is a Red Epic except lacking a few goodies and the so called "chip not meeting Epic standards" so in reality, the Scarlet pricing could be a possible? Wishful thinking? But Red is in the market to make money. So will the price drop to $18,500??? Or $17999. Or cheaper? Such as $15000 (keep it lower than the F5 too?). All the above is speculation. Fun times.

The F5 and F55 cameras take advantage of [color=#FF0000][u][b]Sony's new BP-FL75 battery pack[/b][/u][/color], which uses Olivine—Lithium Iron Phosphate—instead of conventional Lithium Ion cathodes. The result is a substantial increase in charge-discharge cycles, compared to previous Sony batteries. The Olivine battery works with Sony's BC-L90 quick charger. The new battery supports outstanding mobility for field shooting enabling two times higher speed charge than current charger and maximum 150 minutes consecutive shooting.

[center][b]The big differences are inside[/b][/center] The F55 is the more expensive, feature-rich sibling. Since there’s a hurricane outside, please bear with us in case some of the specs that follow are off. The comparison of features makes the head spin. But, in the spirit of a two sentence pitch, here is the difference: Get the F55 if you want to record 4K, 2K or HD internally to SxS Cards, shoot to 240 fps, have a global shutter, and want an F65 type of sensor design. Get the F5 if you want to save money, record 2K or HD internally to SxS Cards (but not 4K internally), shoot to 180 fps, skip the global shutter, and want an F3 type of sensor design.

More info people: [url="http://www.fdtimes.com/2012/10/30/sony-f55-and-f5/"]http://www.fdtimes.com/2012/10/30/sony-f55-and-f5/[/url]

Prices?: [url="http://www.creativeventures.be/sony-pmw-f5.html"]http://www.creativeventures.be/sony-pmw-f5.html[/url] [url="http://www.creativeventures.be/sony-pmw-f55.html"]http://www.creativeventures.be/sony-pmw-f55.html[/url] Note the US pricing will be different. Usually cheaper.

Read prices from $22K to $50K for the F55? Read prices from $16K up for the F5? Read pricing may not be released till February 2013? Let's see what the end of the day brings. Too funny. All I can say is [b]Go BMC GO[/b]! [b]$2995 :) [/b] [b]Spec this, spec that. [/b]

If Sony prices their F5 at $15K then what would be the street price? $12K??? What would a $8K to $9K pricing do? Would it result in the other cameras collecting dust? The ball is in Sony's court. I got to keep my mouth shut about what is coming. Be careful Sony, you are not alone.

The other thing is the Hero 2.7K camera for $400. And of course the BMC. The BMC isn't perfect - sensor size, battery, etc. I don't mind paying a premium for extras that the BMC does not offer but within reason. There will be other competition entering the picture. If Hero can offer 2.7K for $400 and BMC for $3K, then surely, there will be other cameras coming up. Sony needs to price aggressively. I've talked to vendors who joke about Sony. Why? They talk about how many cameras Sony has put out and the "[i]holding value[/i]." Technology changes quickly. People know this. There are needs and then there are wants. Usually the wants are not needed. People get caught up in the hype. Next year the Bigger sensor BMC is coming out. JVC/Panasonic is coming up. Canon is coming up and now needs to rethink their strategy. Leica is in the mix. Red is still very much in the mix and pricing will be a huge factor. Sony has such an opportunity here. Will they play their poker hand correctly?

[url="http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/files/show/highend/pdf/F5_Camera.pdf"]http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/files/show/highend/pdf/F5_Camera.pdf[/url]

[quote name='markm' timestamp='1351596864' post='20603'] Using 2K how does this beat the BMC except in sensor size. Surely 2K is the only doable option for most of us. The only advantage I can see is 4K and for me would be way to much money for peripheral gear working in 2k raw is bad enough. I can't even see a reason for TV to use 4K for much of their stuff. Skyfall was just completed using arri raw. 4k for me is still in the future even if they should bring out 4k TV. I think if Sony wants to win in the market place then they really need to competitively price this and the media. [/quote] I agree. Sony should price very aggressively. There will be other competition coming up. Take the market when the opportunity is there. Many people already are invested in expensive cameras that will last for years to come. Entice them to drop their equipment and upgrade without hesitation. I like a $15000 price (or cheaper), but if it is in the $25K range then is it worth it? Specs are awesome, but you want to attract the masses. You want people to switch over. Are the specs enough for me? Nope. [u][b]Price[/b][/u] with specs are. Technology changes quickly and more competition will creep up. Wants and needs are two different things. My 2 cents.

Anyone bidding on an Epic? [url="http://www.ebay.com/itm/EPIC-X-RED-CAMERA-459-fully-updated-in-perfect-condition-/261120135918?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccbf912ee"]http://www.ebay.com/itm/EPIC-X-RED-CAMERA-459-fully-updated-in-perfect-condition-/261120135918?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccbf912ee[/url]

[b]Official talk from Sony...[/b] - Protecting the customer ROI is a major part of our strategy [url="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23TheNewF&src=hash"][s]#[/s][b]TheNewF[/b][/url] - Very big update for our Super35mm web site, going live OCT 30th [url="http://t.co/cQlAaUJy"]http://www.sony.com/35mm [/url] [url="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23TheNewF&src=hash"][s]#[/s][b]TheNewF[/b][/url] - Rest assured you will not be dissapppointed - Those few that have seen, and know the features, their reaction is [url="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23GameChanger&src=hash"][s]#[/s][b]GameChanger[/b][/url] [url="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23TheNewF&src=hash"][s]#[/s][b]TheNewF[/b][/url] - [url="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23TheNewF&src=hash"][s]#[/s][b]TheNewF[/b][/url] [color=#ff0000][u][b]pricing has NOT been made known[/b][/u][/color]. Speculation thus far is interesting but exact specs revealed on Oct 30 [url="http://t.co/fnYc91n3"]http://bit.ly/TheNewFContact [/url]

@Andy, agree the Redmx has alot of life still, excellent camera. It'll be interesting to see at what the used market will end up for these babies.

Look at this Scarlet package from ebay: [url="http://www.ebay.de/itm/181005293790?nma=true&si=mBOqmxuit%2B%2FLYXDwFT%2F2k%2Bzzg1Q%3D&rt=nc&_trksid=p4340.l2557&orig_cvip=true"]http://www.ebay.de/itm/181005293790?nma=true&si=mBOqmxuit%2B%2FLYXDwFT%2F2k%2Bzzg1Q%3D&rt=nc&_trksid=p4340.l2557&orig_cvip=true[/url] [b]About $8500 US.[/b]

There are entire used Redmx packages going for around $10K now. Look at what Red people are discussing about the upcoming re-pricing? [url="http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?87768-New-Epic-X-Price-Prediction"]http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?87768-New-Epic-X-Price-Prediction[/url]

Well put Andrew. A company grows with customer buying their products. If there is room to improve, a company needs feedback, aka "whining." The company then needs to satisfy or a competitor will. Consumers have alot more information at their disposal now. People know when companies can do better. Hero 3 is offering 2.7K for $400. BMC is offering alot. Whining is starting to pay off. [size=8][b]Squeaky wheel gets the grease[/b][/size]

Used market for Redmx and Scarlets - there will be lots of deals in the next few months. Used Redmx packages have come down. With new competition, Red adusting prices, etc., it is common sense more deals will show up. Years back, when technology changed, I ended up not selling a mid expensive camera. I held it and it is worthless today. This is an unfortunate reality. How fast will cameras depreciate going forward? Exciting times lie next week with Sony's announcements and for Red's new pricing. More cameras coming too.

One thing I noticed about RED. They respond to competition. Last year with the C300 arrival, Red responds with the Scarlet. This year, they are repricing due to the new Sony F, and Canon C500. They reacte and don't wait to see what happens. Excellent business practice. I've been saying this for quite sometime. Any company that prices aggressively with top notch specs could take the lion share or establish a firm beach head. Once you have the masses using your product, residual income will come from accessories, upgrades, etc. Why lose a sale? Of course, pricing has to fit the economics. Look how fast the battle tested Scarlets sold out. If the number was 100. Then $7100 x 100 = $710,000. On top of that people probably bought another $500K to $700K in accessories (high margins). Later, the users will buy additional batteries, storage, upgrade, etc., as the first round of buying leads to this. More importantly, these individuals are 80% secure clients. They are not with the competition. My 2 cents. Cheers

Also, isn't the Canon C500 coming out soon too? Step up to the plate with your new bat, and the pitchers throw a faster curve ball? Competition. You gotta luv it.

[indent][i]New prices will be [b]posted Oct. 31st.[/b] I don't expect that we will sell many cameras from now until then. :-) Jim [/i][/indent][indent][i][url="http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?87757-Everything-changes-IMPORTANT-post/page2"]http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?87757-Everything-changes-IMPORTANT-post/page2[/url][/i][/indent]

Coincidence? 1. Barely used Scarlets offered at $7100 very recently. 2. New Epic Pricing on November 1, 2012 [size=6][b]3. Sony BIG announcement October 30, 2012.[/b][/size]