Tzedekh

[quote name='richg101' timestamp='1348230253' post='18804'] I'm guessing the 1dc stores straight to card? in 4k? if this is the case, this will gain more market appeal than the red scarlet. even though so many people have this hankering for raw, most dont have the money to then spend multiple $$$$ on the additional hd's (more than £80 worth of ssd storage per 3 minute is it not? and more importantly, most are not undertaking work that even warrants raw.[/quote] Probably more people are undertaking work that requires raw -- or at least better gradability than is possible with 8-bit H.264 -- than work that requires 4K. [quote]having 4k straight to card and the dynamic range of the full frame sensor would be amazing, even it if is compressed in camera [/quote] Again, the codec is the weak link. A greater dynamic range would tend to make banding even more apparent.

[quote name='TC' timestamp='1348190972' post='18779'] One last thing. Blackmagic have stated in interviews that after they announced their camera, they were contacted by other sensor manufacturers who wanted to sell sensors. You can bet the sales reps at those companies weren't just picking up the phone to Blackmagic. All you need now to produce a video camera is a sensor, processing chip, screen and lens mount. All pretty commoditised these days. Blackmagic will be the first of many companies that have never made a camera who enter this market. [/quote] In theory, this may be true, but in practice it hasn't proved so easy. Blackmagic Design already had a proven track record with much of the technology used in its camera, but even BMD's been experiencing issues, particularly in the supply chain. And as we've learned from the history of the Red Scarlet, timing is everything. The apparent excitement over the BMC has affirmed the viability of Red's original, nonmodular design, which, if Red had released it in 2009 as planned, would now be three years old. It would have undoubtedly gone through at least one update. And there would have been no reason for BMD to develop the BMC as currently specced. If BMD falls six or eight months behind, who knows, some other company may release a better-specced camera and preempt the BMC.

It would be nice if it could be hacked to yield something other than 8-bit video. Maybe 12-bit CineForm RAW.

[quote name='andy lee' timestamp='1348145359' post='18683'] So looks like Panasonic are comitted to mirco 4/3 for the time being [/quote] Maybe for stills. If the 4K mockup they showed at NAB is any indication, they appear to be moving to APS-C or bigger for single, large-sensor pro video

[quote name='sfrancis928' timestamp='1347423732' post='17807'] Sony's a99 product page: "[color=#333333][font=arial][size=3][background=rgb(238, 238, 238)]The a99 gives you the ability to record Full HD 1080 video at a spectrum of professional frame rates, including 60p, 60i and 24p. Plus, you can output uncompressed, clean-screen 60p/60i video files via HDMI to external recording devices[/background][/size][/font][/color][url="http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666485827"][sup]1[/sup][/url][color=#333333][font=arial][size=3][background=rgb(238, 238, 238)]."[/background][/size][/font][/color] [/quote] Don't know what his means yet. It would be nice if HDMI weren't only 8-bit. At this point, there's no reason for it, especially given the price, except to hobble it.

When it comes to OLPFs, less is moire.

[quote name='Axel' timestamp='1346937967' post='17447'] It could be 10-bit easily, if Panasonic only wanted. The 4:2:2 rumor was a guess towards a more professional profile of the GH3, because it would make the video fit for broadcasting. A reason for 10-bit could be that any HDR signal is better spread over 1024 values than over 256. It would make the quantization easier for the processor. Why people remain skeptic is not out of technical necessities, I think it's just that they can't imagine such a huge step forward. [/quote] I agree. Sorry, I thought you were explaining why it might [i]not[/i] be 10-bit. The only reason not to include 10-bit at this point, especially since the camera purportedly will cost more than the GH2, is that Panasonic doesn't want it to compete with their pro video cameras.

[quote name='Axel' timestamp='1346916978' post='17426'] > possibly (though not likely) 10-bit, because AVC-U aims at 12-bit for the pro-cameras [/quote] This one's definitely wrong, at least the reason it might not be 10-bit. AVC-Ultra supports a [i]range[/i] of bit depths up to 12-bit, so this codec "family" definitely includes 10-bit. However, if Panasonic wanted to include 12-bit as an option on the GH3, that's great.

[quote name='EOSHD' timestamp='1346853352' post='17365']Anything below $1000 is [i]very[/i] good for a 4K firmware update. [/quote] Sshh. Don't tell Sony.

Free is good. I say Sony should release the 4K upgrade for free. Maybe Blackmagic Design will release a Hyperdeck Shuttle that'll be able to record Sony's 4K, 12-bit raw format. Or maybe 4K CineForm RAW.

[quote name='cameraboy' timestamp='1346784709' post='17316'] i dont think panasonic would implement avc ultra on gh3 ... they need to left out something for big boys...[/quote] Well, no, technically they don't. At 80 Mbps, 10-bit AVC-LongG should be able to handle at least 60p, let alone 24p. If they hobble the camera just to preserve their pro line, I hope it goes down in flames. [quote]and some log curve ...[/quote] Yeah, a log curve is essential. I don't understand why they're the only ones with no log curve in their AVC cameras.

I'd like to see 10-bit 4:2:2, at least through HDMI.

[quote name='lightpainter' timestamp='1346406523' post='17024'] think we see in spring 13 a CANON 105...... ( 100er body / 2_4k/ 4:4:4/ new SENSOR / GLOBAL SHUTTER!!!!) [/quote] That was a joke, right? Canon is taking the expensive, conservative technology approach.

If Sony were smart, they'd drop the VG-900's MSRP to about $1,500 and spend the extra $1.95 to add clean 10-bit 24p 4:2:2 HDMI out. This would be sweet with a Hyperdeck Shuttle 2.

I'd like to see a compressed-raw option (i.e., in [i]addition to[/i] CinemaDNG), like CineForm RAW or Dirac. According to GoPro's CTO, David Newman, encoding CineForm RAW requires less processing power than ProRes. Whether the BMC has an FPGA and, if so, it can be programmed to encode CineForm RAW is another matter. It's a mature codec and would offer virtually all the benefits of uncompressed raw but be less data intensive.

[quote author=christianhubbard link=topic=951.msg6979#msg6979 date=1341797749]I came into this without even an ounce of evidence, But i'm fairly certain it's just a re-housed NEX-5n.[/quote] What would be the point of doing that? Would it get you additional dynamic range, fewer artifacts, greater bit depth, or higher resolution?

[quote author=sicovdplas link=topic=951.msg6966#msg6966 date=1341787764] It's either Sony (new prosumer NEX as rumored to be released soon) or the KineRaw S16/8 or Something way diffrent. Design looks more like RED tho. [/quote] Not a KineRAW, unless they went with a much smaller form factor. They're rather big and boxy.

[quote author=christianhubbard link=topic=951.msg6943#msg6943 date=1341777195] [quote author=Tzedekh link=topic=951.msg6935#msg6935 date=1341771563] [quote author=christianhubbard link=topic=951.msg6934#msg6934 date=1341771054] I feel like if it was something really meaningful, andrew would have been too excited to not tell us until tomorrow. Hope i'm wrong. [/quote] I don't think you're wrong. Plus, if it's a truly new camera, it's unlikely that EOSHD.com would get the exclusive. It would likely be all over the interwebs. But I'll play along anyway. It's a 4K-sensor-based camera from GoPro, and it outputs CineForm RAW as well as CinemaDNG and log DNxHD. Like the Blackmagic Design camera, it has a built-in 6-Gbps SSD drive and 3G-SDI port, but also an HDMI port and dual XLRs. Its sensor has a global shutter, a dual readout (yielding a dynamic range of 110 dB -- more than 16 stops), and frame rates up to 120 fps. It costs $3,795 without the lens or LCD. [/quote] no way it takes a ssd. wouldn't be surprised if gopro decided to take a shot at the prosumer market in a form that isnt a disposable camera, considering they own cineform. no xlrs, no global shutter, no 4k, and this might be semi-realistic. Though i'm not sure how successful it would be. [/quote] "no way it takes a ssd. . . . no xlrs, no global shutter, no 4k . . ." No point, then. If you consider $3,795 semi-realistic with none of those features, then you'll be pleasantly surprised to know that the BMC has an SSD and the Digital Bolex has one, too, as well XLRs and a global shutter. And both are priced well below $3,795. If the new camera doesn't offer something different or better -- or at least a lower price -- there really isn't much point.

[quote author=retrospective link=topic=951.msg6937#msg6937 date=1341772382] Kodak on a comeback! Oh snap!!! [/quote] "Oh snap" -- an interesting choice of words for Kodak.

[quote author=christianhubbard link=topic=951.msg6934#msg6934 date=1341771054] I feel like if it was something really meaningful, andrew would have been too excited to not tell us until tomorrow. Hope i'm wrong. [/quote] I don't think you're wrong. Plus, if it's a truly new camera, it's unlikely that EOSHD.com would get the exclusive. It would likely be all over the interwebs. But I'll play along anyway. It's a 4K-sensor-based camera from GoPro, and it outputs CineForm RAW as well as CinemaDNG and log DNxHD. Like the Blackmagic Design camera, it has a built-in 6-Gbps SSD drive and 3G-SDI port, but also an HDMI port and dual XLRs. Its sensor has a global shutter, a dual readout (yielding a dynamic range of 110 dB -- more than 16 stops), and frame rates up to 120 fps. It costs $3,795 without the lens or LCD.

"Oversampling from 24MP to 1080p would mean Image quality in video mode would be close to perfect full HD and like a moving still." Really? A sensor with 24 MP oversamples 1,920 x 1,080 HD 12:1, way more than necessary. Even the F65's sensor has "only" 20 MP, yet it yields true 4K.

Interesting, but until it can do at least 24p, useless. It does, however, point in the general direction of where this is all heading.

Blackmagic Design claims 13 stops, but hopefully they're being conservative. If the sensor's the BAE one mentioned here and elsewhere, it may be closer to 14 stops. But then again, it costs half as much as the FS700.

[quote author=Andrew Reid link=topic=895.msg6496#msg6496 date=1340656413] My comment about TV was tongue in cheek. Regardless, it is a Cinema Camera not a TV camera so it should shoot in the cinema aspect ratio! I prefer the wider look. [/quote] But it's a digital cinema camera that will probably be used on TV episodics and Web videos more than on theatrical films.

The aspect ratio of 2,560 x 2,160 is 1.185:1 -- which is very close to 1.2:1, ideal for 2.4:1 anamorphic. Also, the 16.64 x 14.04-mm area of the BAE/Fairchild CIS2051 yields a diagonal of 21.8 mm, which is almost exactly the diagonal of the m4/3 format. Cropping the sensor's "area of interest" would reduce the effective sensor size and wring even more tears out of all the big-sensor fetishists.