markm

If I had the choice to shoot in 4K I would every single time. How can you argue against having a better image to start with and for future proofing. What I really like about 4K is how you can crop the frame and resize. The problem with 4K is only the big boys can afford the equipment that goes with it. Shooting on 2K or 2.8 arri raw gets you the kind of quality skyfall and the last three star wars films offers. SO is that good enough for me?? Jim is not talking B/S in fact he has shaken the market up that has allowed everything to move forward. Without RED we would still be getting the next generation of 2/3 chip cameras. 4K is better but its certainly not a consumer format until equipment and software prices drop and hard drives get bigger and cheaper. However 2K or 2.8K is certainly still a pro fromat that happens now to be doable for most of us. He also predicted digital would surpass film. He is a visionery in this field. But logically 4K is not viable for most of us yet. 4K will undoubtably be the future but in this race for resolution has a cut off point if we want actors to still look wonderful Its alright seeing someone on stage but to see a close up of someone on a 40' screen with every pore every line every blackhead every hair hyper defined like a microscope against an out of focus background wont look real anymore it will look ugly. Until my computer has a 4K screen and I can edit almost real time without using proxies and colour correct in 4k it just isnt going to work for me unless I want to spend endless hours forcing it. I need to be more than a technician I need to be creative and for me thats not what 4K delivers yet.

Its a shame really Panasonic were the first with a large sensor video camera the AF101 All it needed was a few tweaks to make it as revolutionery as the EX1 I guess they only have themselves to blame in my opinion. The GH3 is most definately an improvement with the ability to use a monitor in crop mode and HDMI 4.2.2 out. They are fantastic improvements to an already very filmic camera. Just a shame they decided to price to a level where S35 sensor camera that do the same thing are almost within reach. If they sold the GH3 at about £700 -800 that would be about right to hit the sweet spot for them.

I loved the original trilogy but it was so hard to get into the last three films. Maybe it wasnt just the story but the actors who played a big role in making the magic happen. The effects somehow seemed better as well in the 70s 80s when they used real models etc. With Darth Vader and the emperor being killed off and brilliant performances from OB1 Luke Han and the princess I cant see where they can go with it Unless they do a reboot and retell the story although I reckon thats dangerous ground as its already been done so well. Maybe George got out at the right time I think he gets a billion in cash and the rest in shares Imagine having that kind of money You could make a few £100,000,000 films. Imagine though the good times you could have IE Owning Master primes F65 AND all the film making gear I'd buy three motorised daleks and invite friends around to race them. Just be so much fun!

[quote name='FilmMan' timestamp='1351643009' post='20671'] I'm taking a different road now till proven differently. Logic. Sony gives 4K with the FS700 but you need a specific recorder, which costs more money. The FS700's 1080p footage isn't as good as the F3. Therefore protecting the F3 market. Big f'n announcement. People are pumped. Sure the specs look great and the sheep get excited. Talk of very positive pricing. Yet no official pricing from this leading company on the debut day!!! Sony could give a very attractive price but remember they are in the business to make money. Don't fool yourselves folks. Till we see the actual pricing, I'm staying negative neutral - if that positively makes sense? Why no official pricing??? Perhaps they are gathering their intel and deciding how much they can squeeze out of the lemons? Cheers. [/quote] Yep I agree. Sony are waiting to see the reaction. Why should the technology cost £15000 anyway. Your basicly paying £10,000 for a 4K sensor if you allow £5000 for the rest of the bells and whistles and I think I'm being over generous. But then canon have done the same with the way overpriced C300 I guess the point is some of us in the indie market might stretch to £15000 if it was a one off future proofed (5-10 years) investment and priced fairly. This camera is I think really aimed at bottomless pockets and the commercial/corporate market. I don't see it being a threat to an Alexa or those aspiring to make feature films. After years of Sony and others pushing overpriced cameras then pushing with slight incremental improverments every few years we now have new players and things will only get worse for them as China begins to make its mark. Sony could have come out with a common sense camera IE decent sensor 10 bit 4.2.2 out and raw recording with ND filters at about £5000 So could panasonic who would have found it easy to update the af100 sensor. I would say Sony Canon and Panasonic are going to lose big time in their profit margins. Companies like Black Magic are going to become the new players Maybe Red too if they can get their prices down. In order to help the big players get their acts together then they should follow my advice on this is how the large sensor market should look for todays consumers. £1000 - 3000 Cameras for consumers IE 4K 2K etc heavily encoded with 8 bit uncompressed out. £3500 - 80000 2K Cameras with decent sensors 50 - 100mb recording with 10 bit 4.2.2 and raw out. £10,000 - 15000 4K - 2K Cameras with on board recording for all including raw £20,000 - £50,000 Cutting edge sensors and technology for theatrical use. IE 8K Global aperture 15 stops and 16bit 4.4.4. Now go away and get your houses in order.

Looking at the F5 and F55 I think their primary task is to take out the scarlet and epic. I think this is a bad move as many red owners will switch to a BMC. The real battle Sony should be waging is with the BMC as that will be the big seller. As Black Magic increase their market share and a new 35mm sensor they will be the boys who will clean up. PS I think the new Aaton has a global shutter.

Bit weird with this sensor business Almost seems like Sony have been given a chance to catch up.

[quote name='FilmMan' timestamp='1351605932' post='20614'] I agree. Sony should price very aggressively. There will be other competition coming up. Take the market when the opportunity is there. Many people already are invested in expensive cameras that will last for years to come. Entice them to drop their equipment and upgrade without hesitation. I like a $15000 price (or cheaper), but if it is in the $25K range then is it worth it? Specs are awesome, but you want to attract the masses. You want people to switch over. Are the specs enough for me? Nope. [u][b]Price[/b][/u] with specs are. Technology changes quickly and more competition will creep up. Wants and needs are two different things. My 2 cents. [/quote] Yes but seriously I cant think why anyone would spend $15000 when the BMC is a fraction of the price. If you dont need 4K Then what are the advantages apart from ND filters. Is anyone here going to use 4K or is it just another gadget? I mean if they can shoot skyfall in 2.8K Arri raw uprez it to 4K and show it on IMAX Seriously who here is going to need more than 2.4K from a BMC. I mean even if you shoot it you will need to render it and colour it as well as a 4K monitor and all the Hard drives you need Will your computer actually be able to play any of it and will you be showing your 4K film at the local multiplex where they will buy a 4K projector for you and show most of the below par hollywood stuff on 4K If 2K is good enough to be cinema quality on a 40' screen then thats surely all you need? Unless you want to future proof it or you really are going to make a bigger better film than James bond. I mean if you need 4K Then surely you need to be one of the big boys and if your one of the big boys your going to need £20,000 master primes and a £100,000,000 budget. Sorry it just seems an absurd camera for the target market but then I expect there are plenty out there with more money than sense and maybe a camera like this is a status symbol rather than a tool.

Using 2K how does this beat the BMC except in sensor size. Surely 2K is the only doable option for most of us. The only advantage I can see is 4K and for me would be way to much money for peripheral gear working in 2k raw is bad enough. I can't even see a reason for TV to use 4K for much of their stuff. Skyfall was just completed using arri raw. 4k for me is still in the future even if they should bring out 4k TV. I think if Sony wants to win in the market place then they really need to competitively price this and the media.

[quote name='kirk' timestamp='1348230149' post='18803'] That Canon/BMC comparison should shut a few mouths in the Canon camp :D [/quote] Yes agreed although when did reality from fanboys matter?

Thanks for the link Cameraboy. A professional look at the BMC that gives the camera a fair and proper review. It's what some already know and was getting tired of telling the brainwashed why the rest are toys. Why this is a baby Alexa and why the BMC is just not in the same league as the DSLR's or the rest up to an Alexa. Why it is better than a C300 an F3 of course the rest have their place with compressed codecs where quality isn't a priority. BMC - The new camera king.

Digital Master Looks very filmic!

Yep I can clearly see you punching his fist with your face.

Right I just downloaded the film and watched it on quicktime as for some reason I couldn't import the file into Vegas 11 or 10. I can now see a fully resolved picture and it looks good to me. Also the colour correction looks a little different. I have uploaded many films to Vimeo and you have to render a file that the vimeo encoders will make the best of. My own films have looked a helluva lot more resolved than Genesis. I personally think the encode at Vimeo has not been as good as it should or could have been. Now I am satisfied with the picture resolution.

True. Maybe he wouldn't want to film himself doing hands on reviews of cameras. Just an idea.

I DON'T Believe it Can't be?

Andrew has shown how good he is with camera reviews. I'd like to see him review equipment presenting Bloom style videos and maybe competitions.

Astro The cat was fairly close so that could help it look more detailed. It's true though every shot I look at looks soft. To me although the cat looked sharper than the others it was still soft. I'm wondering if this is some sort of aliasing filter or conversion from the sensor like the softness in the D4 or noise reduction or combination and if so can any of it be turned off OR does it look better in one of the crop modes. Maybe the production camera lens mount was out fractionally or loose. Hopefully this will be resolved.

I think there has always been historical differences between China and Japan. China though is really becoming a concern as a super economy helmed by a dictatorship. Global warming was damaging the planet before china's industrial revolution NOW it is accelerating it massively. We in the UK go on about increasing the size of a single airport. China in a year will build 80. The reason why China has become so big as because as consumers we buy as cheap as we can So our own manufacturing and working classes become unemployed Most of the money goes to china as we import cheap goods and then the money we save on those cheap goods go in taxes to pay for the working class unemployed while at the same time destroying the planet. How clever is that? All our governments need to do is put an import duty on cheap goods from china to level the playing field and the problem goes away. We have so called religions murdering people in their name We have religions who poo poo global warming. We have religions telling people not to use contraceptives. We have massive religious families expanding and spreading their word. We have western governments trying to control and takeover everything. Is there any hope? At least we'll be able to record the end of the world in glorious detail. [u][b]IF[/b][/u] the cameras get produced that is. ;)Jokingingly

[quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347940712' post='18417'] [url="https://vimeo.com/49558910"]https://vimeo.com/49558910[/url] Watch the prototype footage. [/quote] The footage still looks soft especially in lower light levels. I would think this could be on par with a canon mark3

[quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347922292' post='18400'] You're not making any sense. [/quote] Don't undermine me [quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347922292' post='18400'] The GH2 was arguably said to have the best picture....by a POLL ON NOFILMSCHOOL.COM, not within the documentary. In fact, only a few people chose the GH2 in Ep.2, not "most" as perpetuated here. [/quote] I was talking about the Zacuto challege 3 Why are you talking about the second? [quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347922292' post='18400'] In Ep.3, what was shown wasn't a superior image, but a sub par image beyond resolution capabilities. [/quote] Thats YOUR opinion and if I undestand what your saying is that the driftwood hack gives an inadequate picture that is built on a camera incapable of high resolution. Stop hiding behind clever words and call it what it is. That is deceptive, The Driftwood hack on the GH2 in my opinion gives it a picture quality that competes with an Alexa within the limitations of 8 bit 4.2.0 and DR of course anything above that and you have no chance. That is what is so special about the BMC which really is a baby Alexa. [quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347922292' post='18400'] The "blind test" wasn't really blind at all because it was the result of re-lighting AND heavy post correction. In other words, it was misleading. [/quote] The test did what it said on the tin and under these conditions the GH2 arguably had the best picture. Of course these were conditions set up by Zacuto and real life conditions will mean something else. We dont need this explained by YOU as Zacuto explained it before hand with warnings and concerns. A driftwood hacked GH2 can be as good as an Arri or Red within its confines as it is still only 8bit 4.2.0 However so are the films you watch in HD The point is 8bit 4.2.0 can look as good as 10 bit 4.4.4 providing you get the lighting exposure DR and dont have to change things much in post. Under these circumstances the GH2 HACKED competes with an Alexa. [quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347922292' post='18400'] By "far more", who are you referring to? The Zacuto staff? The theater attendees? They don't support your argument as maybe only 3-4 chose "B"/GH2. [/quote] I said arguably the best picture That means some preferred the GH2. [quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347922292' post='18400'] [i]Or are you referring to the nofilmschool.com poll results? [/i] [/quote] I didnt read this. [quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347922292' post='18400'] Be more specific and less dramatic. [/quote] Who do you think you are telling me how to think and act. [quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347922292' post='18400'] No, but what you DID do was create more hyperbole by using Coppola's name to give credibility to the GH2 being a superior image. When in fact it was heavily corrected (how many windows were needed again?) footage to the point of not even being GH2 footage any longer. Coppola chose an image that he liked, this is true. However it wasn't a "native" image, it was severely changed. [/quote] Every camera was allowed to light and colour correct how they wanted and the test was to find out how a good DP and colourist could make the image look. BUT THE INFORMATION HAS TO BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE, The GH2 with driftwoods hack LOOKS just as good as an Alexa AND no one would spot the difference providing there are no areas overexposed Obviously though within the confines of what the GH2 8bits 4.2.0 and DR can do. The Zacuto test proved exactly that. My advice to you is to learn more and understand why this can be so. Many people have spent an awful lot of time unlocking the potential of cameras like the GH2 for these reasons.. The driftwood hacked GH2 can under the [b][u]RIGHT[/u][/b][u] [/u]circumstances be as good as an ALEXA Get used to this and stop trying to subvert facts to fit into your preferred world reality.

I wonder if it still has focus assist and if it works in the muti sensor crop modes. That would be very useful. Also focus peaking is available on many monitors so to me it all sounds good.

Pierre The GH2 can be difficult to get right I took the camera out on a few occassions and it let me down badly Till I discovered it was the card. Although the right one it only had a write speed of 30mbs. Also when I used it unhacked I got low resolution banding and crap pictures. I did numerous tests for resolution come up against severe opposition for daring to question its resolving power and was about to give up on it until I tried driftwoods hack and I found a superb cinematic picture and could make films better than my old EX1 for quality. However many have said the unhacked camera gives good results. I never saw it but maybe my tests were somehow flawed although I dont think so OR we have different levels of what is acceptable. I would say persevere with it and you may like what you get. For professional film making though the GH2 is a toy at 8 bit 4.2.0 until the BMC though there wasnt much in town unless you spent a fortune. The GH3 looks as if it has really improved things.

Well if this has ETC in video mode in 2.4X, 3.6X and 4.8X ratio and can use HDMI out then I am VERY PLEASED. Looks as if there has been a lot of misinformation that I have inadvertantly taken as fact albiet in speculation. I shall try to be more careful next time. As long as the softness seen in genesis can be cleared up I think this could be a WINNER and just hope it is 4.2.2 hdmi out even at 8bit. I now don't see this as a SHEEP IN WOLVES clothing competitor to the BMC But a different tool! Well done Panny if this is the case.

You know the amazing thing about the GH2 when hacked on the Zacuto test was this little box that cost peanuts compared to an Alexa could be chosen by many as PREFERABLE So what does that tell you about paying £50000 or £600 when when clearly unlocking the sensor gives these results. Only a matter of time before kinefinity or BMD sell a camera at its true worth and takes a healthy profit with it. The only good thing I can see with Canon Nikon Panny Sony in the consumer range etc is they ability to use high compression codecs saving on disc space and so time spent with it. Most are not making hollywood blockbusters and happy to use compressed 9 stops 8bit 4.2.0 and why not It certainly makes great movies like Genesis which although I'm being critical because we are judging the film based on the camera. Not the skill of the cast and crew. I actually thought Bruce Logan and Phil Bloom did an excellent job from the crew perspective. Also the storyline was in keeping with competing and comparing against other promotional films. I loved the way the tube train swept in particularly and I liked the colour correction. The speed of the edit was a little off putting at first but now I like it. The train station was gorgeous and generally the film looked slick and professional. As for the acting I'm going to say the camerawork didn't help in that regard and the sound for vocals was a little weak. I thought more development on maybe getting her to act like a suspect Ooops I'm droning on. Because this was a promotional film and it did what it was designed to do. Just a shame the camera didnt match it. I've heard some say as it was not the final product it could have a different sensor or dirt on it or any number of problems. and that we should accept that. To me that is a silly argument. This is supposed to be a PROMOTIONAL video and as such must be passed by Panasonic to PROMOTE the GH3 If the resolution has been softened by filters OR dirt on the lens etc. This film SHOULD not have been released and if people draw the wrong conclusions that is Pannys fault entirely.

[quote name='KahL' timestamp='1347865857' post='18297'] No it did not and that bit of strong misinformation was further perpetuated by this site as well. The GH2 had a [u]HUGE [/u]amount of grading only surpassed by the iPhone and scene re-lighting to compensate for its small DR. The actual default image (shown in Ep.3) wasn't very good at all beyond resolution detail really. I'm curious to see what the "wide dynamic range" capability actually is with this newer model though. The colors are a big turn off for me, so maybe that's a saving grace beyond deluded fandom support :-/ [/quote] 1 The GH2 arguably had the best picture well of course it did within the confines of the zacuto challenge 3. It's so annoying when people dont check their facts and run others down. On the Zacuto blind test many picked the GH2 as their favourite. I did. No less than Francis Ford Coppola picked the GH2. 2) As for the grading SO WHAT. The test was to see who could get the best picture and ALL cameras got the same chance or are you saying it was unfair in favour of the GH2. 3)You admit resolution was okay and then have an opinion NOT FACT An opinion by the way that far more professional people completely disagree with. 4)Who cares what you are curious about? 5)Dont judge me. I am not a fan of any camera I only care what it can do. 6) You have given no information only to down the GH2 and to down me for giving facts and you did this with insults inuendo and either lying or no knowledge of the facts. Are you a troll?.