markm

Okay thanks for that.   Nope its all about the money!

  I may have been confused on this as I have read the lens was 24mm to 200mm IE http://***URL removed***/news/2013/10/16/very-big-and-very-fast-sony-cyber-shot-rx10-first-impressions-review It seems DP review has got this wrong and I went with it. The lens is 8.8mm that is equivalent to 24mm on a full size lens and so therefore wide enough.     Of course you can buy individual lenses at f2.8 I also recently bought a canon 16mmm to 35mm lens But the point is I also bought some canon T1.5 T1.3 primes because it isn't a fixed lens camera. A fixed lens means you only have one choice.     Sorry I don't understand your question?  

Lucky for Sony BMD are treating customers badly and cant get the cameras out in numbers, keep promises or talk to people. I also think at this moment for the lower end Panasonic are actually the best of the bunch and probably because they got left behind and never bothered to catch up with a Panasonic af100 replacement which lets face it the only option left was true 10 bit out and higher resolution which would have cleaned up especially if they put compressed raw like cineform to SD cards and lets face it any of the Japanese companies could do this and we all know they wont and we all know why.   I think for sheer audacity Canon took the biscuit with their C line of 8 bit overpriced DSLR hi breds but lets face it, Sony don't even come with a sense of humour.

The reason it is a 24mm to 200mm lens is because we have to standarise it so we understand it. It is not down to us to change standards or Sony. When I read it as being a 24mm wide I know in my mind that a 16mm film frame size has a 25mm lens that would be equivalent to a 50mm 35mm film frame size In other words a C/U lens. Trying to make all sensor sizes adapt to the format size would be extremely confusing.   A fixed lens at f2.8 is not good compared to other fixed lens cameras As for the compression then we are talking about the low end. The camera may be perfect for you because you want extremely compressed 4k and don't need to worry about colour correction and happy to playback the footage on your 4k sony TV.   However I think most of us would for TV or documentary and wanted to run and gun would probably look for something like a Panasonic G6 or something with a smaller sensor. In any case I don't think the camera justifies its price tag and I think for the most part its a backwards step but in 4k just where Sony want to take us Back to consumer level at an inflated price and away from pro formats. The only good thing about this camera tomeis the ND filters proving it can be done. As soon as Sony come out with a 4K camera with 10 bit 4.2.2 out or onboard SSD drives for below £5000 like the BMCC then I will applaud them.   What they can do and what they are attempting to do is nothing short of treating the public like idiots.

Well I guess if you have to pay a premium to keep the poor folk from having access to proper equipment then it is a good reason.

From the 10 stops of the sony's Z100 4k with tiny sensor to the new RX10 It is clear they are trying to take us all to a new 4K low end so they can leave the cheap new 1080p high end as a bad distant memory with technology that they hope will leave the gap left open to the likes of Atomos Convergent design and BMD in the distance so they can once again get back to the separate pro/consumer incremental upgrades of yesteryear. I won't mention companies like kinefinity (Overpriced) or the resurrected ikonoskop (Elitist) as their market strategy is limited by their pricing. I expect all new cameras will soon be hack proof and come with there own media. A cynical answer to consumer demands all on the back of BMDs silence and inability to talk to its customers means they could well get away with a return to the bad old days.

An f2.8 fixed zoom  starting at 24mm on a 1" sensor will not give you much of a wide angle nor bokeh. High compression in camera may look great but so high it leaves concerns. Uncompressed HDMI which I assume is 8 bit will "Another assumption" be for 1080p. For the price and lack of professional usability accept for gimics I fail see what use it is. Yes you will get a little bokeh using its built in ND filters but to little room with the lens for anything meaningful accept to shoot demo footage that shows what extremes it can do. At its price point If you don't want highly compressed 4k then other cameras have more to offer.

4k is great for making narrative films with a large sensor. It wont look very filmic with a small sensor and so narrative film makers will either use this and make narrative films that don't look very filmic or give it a miss In other words its pretty useless for narrative film making and the 4k just adds to the pain of what could have been a very sweet camera. It may be of some use to docu or news gathering but why bother with 4k when there are a range of easy to deal with 1080p cams. It will have a stunning image but ultimately of little use. So its a novelty and because of its spec and some who must have the new toy it will sell. The problem is its been cynically designed not to disrupt there higher end cameras and to sell to those who for the most part don't need it.

No HDMI out and limited to 28Mbit 4.2.0 How is that good for green screen work?

If they had added a large sensor they would have cleaned up and wiped out most of their customers for their pro line. On the other hand in order to build such nice cameras as they do, they need a production line and design department that cant just sit idle after each camera and technology has in the past moved on and enabled them to do this. However that works against its own customers when they deny them cheap modern technology and bring about new companies that fill the gap and the reason why we see companies like atomos convergent design BMD getting a foothold. Although this camera will sell to many the growing competition sony face will also grow stronger because of this.   In my opinion this is a plaster on a limb amputation and Sony really need to rethink their short term strategy as they are losing goodwill as well as losing out to the competition. Many like Sony have gone down. Shame they just cant see it.

Damon that video didn't look noisy?

JG I guess in the end risk management is what you consider acceptable presumably based on the consequences if it does go wrong. I want to make a feature film and to that end need a camera that I know wont let me down. I was once in this position before Everyone said what a fantastic camera the GH2 was and I sort of had a similar debate as we are having. I bought it Hacked it then loads of tests later set out and used on a shoot. BAM that's the only time it went wrong not just once but everytime. And too late what would have been amazing shots gone. I cant afford to buy a 5d3 and a BMCC Most of my money has gone on other equipment So my choice of camera will be crucial.     Have you a link?     If you catch the problem then you can but what if you get to review the footage and then find problems? You may not be able to reshoot.     If I regarded my film as great why would my actors be silly and how does that equate to not being able to do a line again?     Clearly your childish remarks spell amateur yourself and should maybe learn to be more respectful and in your case I'm sure the 5D3 is more than enough.

Yes but it has bricked other cameras so its a continuing story and one that ML readily admit is a possibility they want to distance themselves from. However bricking the camera is really just a small point if you ruined your once in a lifetime chance to make something professional only the camera for whatever reason let you down. That is THE point and the only thing that is relevant. By all means take the risk. The only relevant point is I believe through common sense and logic I wont be doing that. That is my choice and I think under the circumstances a reasonable one as I would like nothing more than to buy a Canon 5d3 and shoot RAW it would seriously make me very happy But there is the voice of common sense that tells me if just a few shots go down and ruin my film then I would be a prat. However others may feel happy t take the risk. The truth is Im just so booooooooorrreed waitng for BMD to send the frigging pocket camera and 4k Im willing to entertain the idea of the 5D3 and others like the 1dc Arrrghhhhhhh

Maybe no camera has been bricked if that is what you are saying but Magic Lantern are keen to distance themselves fromsuch an eventuality. That at least should say something to even the most limited intellect. But it isn't the only potential problem in fact it could be a minor one compared to dropped frames or other problems.   The camera is inferior because of all the reasons already cited. And I have never disagreed with you about the camera being of use to some so please don't put words into my mouth.     So you are saying if you hack a canon camera then it should always work because its a canon? Don't be ridiculous Me Harping on???  I actually agree with you as I would love to be looking at something other than a BM camera. However they are the best deal if and when you can get hold of a good one that doesn't need to go back.   I think you summed your post up with the word amateur Because the 5D is a perfect camera for amateur filmmakers who want to play with professional equipment and don't need to worry if it all goes tits up. But please don't sex up the camera Fanboys are so tiresome.

Yes The 4k sounds great although I don't hold out any chance of seeing it for a long time. Yes BMD did say there were calibration issues and set a new date when it would be done. If it was JUST calibration issues the camera should be sorted They then went past that date and not bothered to inform those on waiting lists for it making many people very annoyed at the lack of communication making me worry that it is more than calibration issues and there was some mention a while back about the sensor having an awful lot of noise and problems reaching 12 stops. For me these delays seem to give more credence to that and the lack of info from BMD doesn't help.

JG Of course you would test a new camera and if any faults then return it But once it is fully working then you can be as sure as you can be it will work.   However.   The mark 5 is hacked and not yet stable Not my words but Magic Lanterns. The 5D also can drop frames as it records to SD cards and not SSD drives that are far more stable.   I learned a harsh lesson when this happened to me. The GH2 hack was very stable until I went out and shot something I didn't want to lose. That's when it went wrong time and time again.   I think if the hack went into ML's list of stable hacks I'd feel better. But that aside the cost of the BMCC is a lot less than the cost of a 5D and without the problems that after all the checks could come back and bite you seriously hard.

From BMD 4K Not a lot in the near future. (NADA)

Irrelevent to most film makers. Yes That's important That's good for me although not everyone has ef lenses Not in raw you cant and the reason for buying this camera for me.  Yes but a 128gb card and that's the minimum I would go to is £550 and its a bit of a gamble with the Komputer bay cards.   These are not as important as reliability IE the hack is not on ML approved list. You take your chances with this.   It doesn't make sense if you drop frames brick your camera does it? Why take the risk when a BMCC costs less and records to SSD cards?   Dave Dugdales video went over old ground apart from his Black magic suggestion.    Maybe you should learn? I most certainly would.   The 5D is inferior It is a hacked camera that by ML standards could be unstable as well as potentially dropping frames. How is that not inferior? Look Please try to add something to the discussion instead of trying to sex up small advantages vastly outweighed by what could go wrong and down playing that into -doesn't matter- and those who think it does are clearly missing the smaller advantages as the greatest thing since cameras were made. oops now I'm doing it.    

CVP or anyone knows when the 4k is due. I think though we can say its in development hell as BMD will not update or discuss why they passed the promised delay date. I personally think they are having trouble with noise and reaching an acceptable 12 stops. Then if that ever gets done there will be calibration White orbs and sensor checks. A first film by John Brawley and then gearing up to produce a limited quantity for some lucky/unlucky beta testers (Joe Public) Then a few more problems worked out and a slow build to full manufacture All of course delayed by their attention to other cameras and equipment that need updates and fixes as well as trade fairs. Perhaps 2nd quarter 2014? Such a promised sweet camera that keeps many of us from buying something grossly overpriced like the canon 1DC and free of 4k nirvana for the foreseeable future

I couldn't afford to buy or rent the epic and would take the 5D3 over these two. However the clear and simple sensible alternative is the BMC

Yes but the cheaper BMCC does RAW and Prores to more secure and cheaper SSD drives. Why would you buy an inferior camera at a higher price? Unless you wanted full frame.

Yes but ML still classifies it under nightly builds which means they don't want any responsibility for bricked cameras and so could be unstable. Also many reports according to germy about problems with computer bay cards and Lexar 128gb costing £550 each. Could you really sensibly use this on a project you couldn't afford to mess up?   So apart from look what I can do Risk takers and cat videos is it really any use apart from a tantalising look at what could be a fall from a great height?

I don't think anyone apart from BMD know anything about this camera Only that its deadlines have come and gone and BMD haven't made any new statements re progress. One has to wonder if the 4K with global sensor is actually workable and whether they have come unstuck.

Does the Lexar guarantee no dropped frames? Are the Komputer bays that unreliable?

And it looks nicer too. My problem with the canon is the fear of dropouts on an SD card recording RAW. Recording Prores on a ninja is still 8 bit with doubtful 4.2.2 I wish I could feel more confident about this camera.