theSUBVERSIVE

I'm curious to know how would be the stock 5DMKIII's score.

  I'm not sure but at first I understood that the microlenses is only for the 36MP sensor.   How does the AVCHD version compares to a clean HDMI output? Is the AVCHD version any indication of what the uncompressed version will look like?

  Nice to see you here Jordan! It's easier to reach you and ask question than using Youtube comment.   I know that with the direct Sun it was a challenging condition to shoot without ND filter, but I guess it was necessary to see what the camera is really capable of. Beside the softness of the image I also felt that it was lacking in Dynamic Range. Around 4min when Chris is testing for resolution it seems that the Sun is not as direct as it was on the other shot but nonetheless the colors look a bit washed and the highlight on his face looks kind of bad. Maybe some of that can be solved via the clean HDMI output, I wonder.   I know it's not a final version but how do you compare that to other cameras you used?

  If you feel that this poor lens line up for a 3.5 years old system is plenty, good for you, there is no reason for me to try to explain it since your basic argument is that it's good enough, nothing can beat comformism, bad for me.

The NEX-7 is probably the next big thing, it will be interesting to see all these video stuff going to the NEX-7. Can Sony use IBIS on a APS-C sensor? That's the only thing that would make me endure the lack of lenses. Actually I really wanted to see Panasonic's response and also Fuji - not really in video though, but Sony did make a big step here. Time to evertbody step up.

hack it! now!

  the 50mm is not really a portrait lens, it's a in-between focal distance. Sure, you can take portrait with any focal length, but when you want to keep the "distortion" right you would prefer something from 55~60mm or a bit longer. The 35mm is not wide, it's 50mm equivalent. The zoom seems nice but I was talking about faster primes, Sony has a bunch of zooms. Fuji X-System is 2 years younger but they have a 14mm f/2.8, 18mm f/2 and a 23mm f/1.4. Fuji X is from 2012 and Sony NEX is from 2010! There is no comparison nor excuses, look at the focal length Fuji covers and with optical quality.

@Damphousse   I don't think that Sony will do the things right but just the fact that they went FF, that's the kind of thing that starts to get attention from a more general public, FF always brings together the "PRO" sense. And with this I'm not saying that this is what I believe to mean "PRO" or anything, it's just that the majority of the people are too concerned with the size of the sensor more than practicality, usability or even system.   I completely agree with what you say about how system is more important or even how Canikon made a lot of things possible. I also understand that no mirrorless system can offer the same things - although Micro4/3 is a pretty mature system by now and Fuji keeps growing, and fast. Canikon really did that, Canon really opened up the video thing, not by change this website is called EOSHD. But it's also a fact that Canikon stopped in time over their hegemony. More and more they bring less and less innovation, they are just too confortable, even more Canon.   Nikon1 system is not a successful one but it brought a lot of interesting things, some video options that no other ILC system has and they even have very good glass but being smaller than Micro4/3, not having the same mature system yet and neither offering better IQ or smaller bodies, it becomes hard to be the first choice for many. That's also why I think that Nikon1 trying to explore a new niche with the underwater camera is oretty interesting take on that.   Canon, on the other hand, did one of the laziest jobs with the EOS-M and they had the courage to be surprised it didn't sell well. They launched a slow camera, just one kit lens and a pancake, same old sensor, same video, it was basically a Rebel in a smaller body but with less customization, buttons, dials, lenses, AF performance and so on. Plus the latest version of their rebel is basically for the sake of having a new one, the T3i, T4i and T5i are basically the same camera. Canon launched the EOS-C but did almost no improvement in video in the 5DMKIII like so many were expecting - Magic Lantern kind of saving their asses here. It made no sense to not bring improvement to not hurt their more-than-$10,000 cinema system.   And then it comes Black Magic with affortable video cameras with RAW and ProRes, something that was thought to be impossible - it's unfortunate that they still have some availability problems and that they take so long to correct some "minor" but very important things, how can you take so long just to put better battery display?? And you can see that this is a new territory for Black Magic, they have the right ideas but they are still failing on execution a bit, but as long as they last, they will mature those things. I like that they are bold nonetheless.   Canikon could have been a force in mirrorless cameras, Canon could have been a force in affortable video, but they were too confortable and worse, afraid that they would canibalize themselves that they chose to play safe and bring no innovation at all. They could have taken the opportunity to bring their dominance and expertise to mirrorless, releasing their system and lenses and competing with Panasonic/Olympus and Sony but they didn't care and now Fuji is really showing how it should be done. With not much effort Canon is still known as the best video in ILC cameras for the general public, when it's not really that good  anymore - or not without Magic Lantern help - or not compared to what it could have been. They are not wrong if they are still selling a lot of cameras, but it's certainly frustrating to see this lack of innovation and cojones.   Black Magic went full force with sub-$3000 RAW! Fuji started a mirrorless system with a PRO-oriented camera and not low-end camera like everybody else! Those are exciting things! Canon is king of the antithesis of that in a lot of sense.   In the short term yes, a lot of photographers will stick with DSLRs, they have a better system, they know what they are getting, it's reliable. But I see more and more Canikon users going Fuji way because it delivers, it has great lenses and Fuji is committed to the SYSTEM. They feel that they can rely on Fuji that they will be getting what they need - something that I can't say about Sony as they change direction too quickly and too often. Fuji's Kaizen is amazing it really makes you feel part of it. And all of that in a smaller and lighter body and lenses. There are tons of testimonials about how Fuji made them go back to photography as something more enjoyable, that there were times that they thought of going out to take pictures but ended up not bringing the DSLR because of the chunk and that with the X-System, they are back to that root.   So, I think that in the long term, as those mirrorless system will continue to grow, at some point it will really start to bother Canikon but by there, if nothing is done, others will have a complete system whereas Canikon will have to start from zero and rely com adapters - which kind of kills the point of having a more compact and smaller camera. I know that for a lot of users, mainly those that don't travel a lot or don't have to carry their cameras everywhere, they will keep using their DSLR but as mirrorless camera are maturing, if they can offer the same in a smaller package, why not try it? There is still a long way to go and mirrorless still has a lot of prejudice to surpass but if Canikon keeps like that, when they realize, it might be too late and share of the market will be gone and I hope they don't go clueless trying to understand what went wrong.   Anyway, all of these is very interesting to follow.

Is there confirmation that these cameras will not have the NEX menus? I didn't read that elsewhere, that would be great because NEX menus are confusing toys, there are no tabs and any configuration change makes you go to through a lot of work and the worst thing is the lack of customization. What good is the Fn/Mode dial button if I can't change its function?   I think that for video, manual focus will be fine for a lot of use but for photography - and I understand why the Leica comparison and not the DSLR - you'd like a AF, NEX cameras doesn't really have a fast AF and here we get into the lenses. Sony has been making a name for themselves in not delivering the goods when it comes to lenses.   The almost 3.5 years old NEX cameras still doesn't have a portrait lens and neither non-pancake decent wide angles. You get lenses from $300~450 and then, suddenly you jump to $1000 and even the Sony/Zeiss doesn't deliver the same optical quality as the best lenses from Micro4/3 and Fuji. And adding a new family of lenses plus the 3 others (APS-C/FF A-mount and APS-C E-mount) it makes me worry. Will Sony at least bring a decent roadmap? Or will it happen all over again? Sony is said to launch official Canikon lens adapters, would it mean that they will rely on that for lenses?   I didn't know about the video improvements and hope for that, but for now, it's just hope. I remember how Sony pumped up about the A99 video capabilites how it would a true FF hybrid and in the end they didn't deliver that. So I think we have to wait to see the real thing and not rely so much on just words.   Anyway, although I have my converns and as such I will wait before even thinking about buying these cameras, they are, for sure a great step for mirrorless cameras. I also have been saying that mirrorless is the future and I wonder what's gonna happen when it becomes known to the general public that fact. Canikon made a living of just their names and how people think that having a Canikon DSLR means being a "PRO" and that's why they have the luxury of not worrying about entering the mirrorless market or they have been so lazy about it - and I also think that one day they may pay for it. We'll see.

  Rumors says these are new sensors, not the same on the A99/RX1 neither the one on the D800.

But isn't the purple fringing something that is part of this lens and not the Speed Booster? I have a Nikon 50mm f/1.4 AIS and wide open I always get those purple fringing.

  I think that 43rumors itself reported in earlier rumors that it's a normal IBIS, not the 5-axis from Olympus.   _____     Olympus IBIS is really awesome and that do wonders for both photography and videography, it allows you to use legacy lenses with IS and for video it's like a Steadicam but with no rig! I was really impressed with one of the reviews posted at 43rumors, the guy managed to get a sharp image with the shutter at 1.6s with no tripod, just his hands! And Sony will get all of that, just like that.   It's hard to choose like that! hahaha... I do have a NEX but my patience has long been gone because of the lack of commitment from Sony towards the lenses so I'm just waiting to jump boat. Before choosing NEX, at the time, I was considering m4/3 but Sony came up with 1080p60/24 in a AVCHD 2.0 codec way before Panasonic and there was no OM-D at the time, so got myself a NEX and I've been using legacy lenses since then - I really wanted to take some advantage from AF sometimes!   Now I'm really hoping that Fuji can add manual control and 1080p24 for video. It does seen like a long shot, but Fuji is picking up in an astonishing pace. They aded Focus Peaking before m4/3, they were quite quick for 1080p60, Wi-Fi and even on sensor PDAF. Having the 1080p60 on the X100s gave me hopes that they can take the next step. I know that Fuji won't have the best video and I don't expect that but Fuji's IQ is just awesome and the Iridient software just shows the real potential of Fuji's X-Trans sensor - while many doubted their sharpness as if it was some kind of magic from Fuji and their JPEG like no one could replicate.   But now it's really difficult because I don't expect Fuji to have this awesome Olympus-like IBIS, but that partnership with Panasonic promisses an even better sensor with Micro Color Splitter AND Organic Sensor. While Sony will keep their own track sensor-wise PLUS, now they have access to the Olympus' IBIS AND lenses expertise. Should I stick with NEX? Should I go for Fuji? Or even m4/3? As I can wait, I will but this is a very exciting times nonetheless.

But how about the hardware upgradability? Will people end up being hostage of Apple's SSD, Apple's RAM, etc. and all the price tag that it brings with it? It has been an Apple's trend with their latest hardware, making it less and less upgradable in favor of getting things as tiniest as possible I wonder how is this gonna work with this black can.

"Why the hell is this feature not implemented if the cameras are capable of it??"   The real question is the other one "...why Canon would have such a feature in the camera(?)"   But for the first question, at this stage, it's pretty much clear, isn't it? Canon has being handcapping their cameras for sometime, I wish that as EOS-C is far from being a EOS DSLR direct competitor, they would stop this nonsense of leaving lots goodies out of their cameras. On the other hand, that's the same reason I wish very well for companies like BlackMagic, that is actually pushing things forward instead of just feeling comfortable in not innovating.   The problem is that Canon's marketing is so strong that most people still think they have the best video quality in ILC, until people in this are realize that or some other company push them, Canon will feel that they have no reason to worry or to change their posture and they will be partially right.

  This is a 4K sensor, which is a 8MP - full 12MP if it's really the CMOSIS in it's 4:3 - and the Leica M is a 24MP FF, they have different sizes, different resolutions and the 4K sensor has global shutter instead of the rolling shutter, they are indeed very different and I don't think they ever thought about them being similar in any way.   The Leica M sensor was probably developed together within Leica's specs need. The fact that the video of the Leica M is not good, isn't probably the sensor's fault by its own, but most likely also because Leica doesn't have the expertise in video area, be it for the codec or for optimizing the video for moiré and rolling shutter.   Many thought that being Leica, maybe they would ask someone to do it for them, create one of the best video for their camera and keep their overall quality standard, but it's not the case and it's clearly not their focus. They just tried to provide a video in case the photographer needs somehow, but knowing that a Leica photographer wouldn't care so much about video, at least not to the point the investment would compensate, they didn't.   But it you think about that, they did what they had to do, because if they managed to supply a superb video, they would attract a different kind of customer, which would also demand a different kind of attention and time. In the end, if they wanted to keep those, they would have to invest even more in video and in an area that they would not be confortable with so the video is just to have in case you really want and that's it.

I wonder if in the future BlackMagic would go for the full specs of this sensor, 15-stops and 4K@150fps - even though I hink that 120fps would be plenty. That would make the big boys make a run for their money. The F55 has 14-stops and 4K@60fps and it's about $30K. Could BMD make that camera for less than $10K maybe?

  Ok, I just read the new article! hehe...   So the trade-off for the global shutter was both DR AND ISO sensitivity, which wouldn't compare to Sony's F55, Sony's sensor seems to be a much more advanced - and expensive - sensor. It has more DR and faster readouts, but these two cameras are not aimed at the same people, I understand that but I still wonder how much would it cost to have a 13-stop DR with at least the same sensitivity as the first BMCC.   But although it has it flaws, I like how BlackMagic is shaking things up a bit.

It seems that it's a CCD sensor.   I'm wondering about the trade-offs.   CCD was brought because of the global shutter, for sure, but it has less DR and lower ISO/ASA sensitivity, how much you lose by that?   How much would cost a 13-stop, be it CCD or CMOS, with global shutter and similar sensitivity as the former BMCC?   Is it that hard to have a built-in electronic ND? I know that this 4K Camera was made for you to use all that extra gear and so you would use a normal ND filter, but with a built-in ND, this camera would be a lot more practical and it would allow you to use smaller gears.

  In the website it says 12-stop DR

I wouldn't expect that they would change the form factor but I think it could have built-in ND, this would be awesome.   I would also be great if the $995 camera had a IBIS, if not it will be harder to take advantage of some good Olympus lenses. If this wasn’t a “pocket Cinema Camera” I guess this wouldn’t matter so much, but since it is, I think that it implies that you won’t use it primarily with lots of equipments so IBIS wouls be quite welcomed – even more something like the Olympus 5-axis IBIS.   But even without these stuff, kudos for Blackmagic, a $1000 S16 RAW and a $4000 S35 4K Global Shutter RAW?!? It gets even more shocking when you think that the C500 costs 6x more!

this new tech that I was talking about:   http://youtu.be/7RS-45FXrUE

I think it's fair to say that we could at least expect a 1.86x crop in video mode, right?   What really stroke me with the GH3 is the fact that although it had lots of improvements a big part of the GH-series DNA was gone. The Panasonic-designed-multi-aspect-ratio sensor.   Those interesting patent from Panasonic could be handy here, it would improve DR and ISO, I think that as a video-designed camera, 8MP would be plenty for a 4K video, maybe even 12MP for some photography matters, but I'm not sure 16MP is really needed.   Let's hope they can come up with something interesting, Canon got too comfortable and unfortunately, they are not pushing the technology forward, I really dislike this kind of posture, well, let's see if others can capitalize on that.

  I think that they don't do it because you earn a lot more money from selling FF cameras rather than adapters. In Sony, Canon, Nikon's case that's quite true but for m4/3 and Fuji, this could really be something, they don't have a FF line up and with this, getting the FF look PLUS faster aperture, that's HOT!

I was kind of waiting and expecting that the Fuji 1080p60 36mbps topic would get here in EOSHD, I'll look forward for the test when the new Fuji cameras are released.   ______________________     I'm not so sure about choosing RX1 instead of the X100s, will the cost-benefit worth it? The X-Trans sensor is very good and the best APS-C sensor, the image in ISO6400 is very nice and usable. I mean, at least, image wise, I'm not so sure the cost of the RX1 would really top it to be worth more than double the price. I think that the RX1 is a bit bulkier with the lens but the body of the X100s is wider, it's a matter of choice.   About video, I also don't know but I would give the benefit of the doubt. As you said yourself, questioning why would Fuji give the X100s the second generation EXR processor instead of the X-E1. I also find it a bit strange, they could really have waited but at the same time, I think that it would have killed the X100s since the X-cameras will get a 23mm lens, making the X-E1 less attractive.   But more importantly for me, it shows that Fuji is always All In, it won't hold back in any model. If you think about that, lots of companies would have waited more to give the X-E1 the same sensor as the top of the line X-PRO1, fearing for cannibalizing its own PRO line up, but instead, Fuji not only gave the same sensor, but also brought a firmware update addressing some problems. And now, the X100s, full of improvements. This is 180 degrees from what Canon has been doing, for instance and as such, kudos for Fuji.   So maybe the video won't be there with something like the Sony's - which is soft but not bad overall - but it just shows a commitment from Fuji, which is something Sony has been lacking, mainly about lenses for their cameras. This shows to me that although they may not get everything right about video this time, they are showing effort and when the next generation comes to the interchangeable lens line up, it will be a lot closer and maybe even surpassing Sony's codec. And that's what would make me buy a X-E2, for example. They have the IQ, the lenses and possibly a decent enough video - plus, the X-lens 18-55mm zoom has OIS and a good aperture for a zoom.   ______________________     About the other topic "RX100 vs X20", again, I'm not so sure the RX100 is that much superior. Now, besides all the speed, the X20 has a X-Trans sensor as well, if we upscale the pixel density, if would give us something like a 32MP X-Trans APS-C sensor, double the pixel density of the sensor used in the X-PRO1, X-E1 and X-100s. If we do the same with the RX100 sensor, we would have a 36MP Sony APS-C sensor. So far, in ISO comparison tests, the X-Trans sensor beats the Sony's sensors - both the 16MP, which is a bit older, but also the 24MP -, the images are sharper, the DR, etc.   So IQ wise, the X20 may beat the RX100. The RX100 may be a bit faster at f/1.8 in the wide end, but loses lots of light at the tele end, while the X20 keep it at f/2.8. The RX100 is a bit smaller, but not so much. The video would be the same as I said before, it may or may not at the same level.   So i think it's very close and Fuji can even get the best of it.   ______________________   I've to say I'm quite impressed with the innovations that Fuji is bringing in each new camera from their X-cameras - X-Trans sensor, split focus, Hybrid VF, etc - but even more importantly, how they have been listening to their consumers feedback, fine tuning their cameras, making it faster, adding focus peaking, making it better and better.   The leaps Fuji is taking are bigger than other companies. Panasonic and Olympus keep improving their system but they don't take risks, they are not as bold as Fuji is with its innovation, they do innovate, but in small steps at a time. But I liked how they pushed the AF speed and proved that contrast AF can be quick, Panasonic even got rid of the hunting focus, making it quick and smooth, even more in video. Olympus and it's 5-axis IBIS, it's very nice, looks like a steadicam. And of course, Panasonic bringing better video for photo cameras.   Sony has its ups and downs, they may bring some nice things but at the same time they do things I cannot understand, like the NEX-6 not having touchscreen - they claim that the NEX-6 wouldn't want that, but sometimes touch shutter can be very handy, plus, now you have apps - or the fact that the NEX-5n should have received a dial for a better control, they didn't have to wait another generation to do that. And Sony is about to start - I hope - to give some fast primes for E-mount. But I think that the SLT tech is a bit of a waste now that you have hybrid AF inside the sensors, it makes you lose light for nothing. When it first came up, it brought some pros of DSLR and mirrorless cameras at the cost of 1/3 of the light and a DSLR-size, but now, it doesn't really make sense to have it.   Samsung is still trying to figure it out how to put together a good camera, but at least they have a nice diversity with their lenses, but with some ups and down in terms of quality. Nikon is doing something of their own, when I think about it, I wouldn't buy a Nikon1, but in a weird way it's a system that brings feats that a big DSLR doesn't have, making it a good pal for the PRO FF cameras, at least that is what I think Nikon is doing with a smaller 1" sensor - and of course, they are gathering info and know-how about mirrorless cameras. Because at first I thought the Nikon1 was a total nonsense. Well, Canon has been doing that very, very conservative moves with little to no innovation at all and there is an article about that right here in EOSHD talking about that.   Anyway, I hope all this competition keeps pushing the overall improvements of the cameras.

It's very unfortunate that they were not able to have a full optimzed sensor for their needs, we can clearly see that they probably optimized as much as they could with the sensor they had in hands - yeah, probably Sony's one. They had to compromise a bit of the downscaling, moiré, multi-aspect, etc. in order to have a better colour, DR, IQ, etc. I think that it would be nice to see Panasonic asking for someone else to make it if they can't, the Aptina sensors for the Nikon1 cameras have very interesting feats. They have very fast sensor read out which let the camera shoot a very high frame rate at full size, I don't exactly know what prevents them from doing it, if it's the processor or the heat dissipation process or whatever, but those sensors seems to be able to produce 4K@60fps. So I think that if Panasonic is able to have a full optimized sensor for their needs, it will be a heck of a camera. Sony is making a new step with the global shutter sensor in the F55, maybe Panasonic could buy or develop a m43 global shutter sensor with Sony since the GH-something wouldn't hurt Sony directly and Sony is more interesting in selling sensors than worried about Panasonic. A GHX-something optimzed for video would be very nice but I just wonder if people wouldn't get mad. Well, if they can really make it in the $3000 price point with 4K, I think that no GH3 owner will complain.