Walter H

I hear you. And a year from now the S1Rii will have made me that difference in price many times over with much less effort than my current camera - an S1 that I bought new in the spring of 2019 that had paid for itself within months of its purchase. There just aren't bad choices. There are preferences. There are more optimal choices. But there really are not bad ones. I am very interested to see and read about people's direct experiences once the cameras are in hand and can make their own evaluations beyond interpreting the internet. The camera has compromises that I believe I'm willing to live with. I am psyched to learn along with others how to best deal with them.

Agree 100%. Problem and an opportunity: problem for everyone who wants a video-capable-forward camera first (and I get that this is a film-making/video first forum); opportunity for others like me who very much need a advanced hybrid camera that can be a workhorse for high-quality stills too. If this release for the S1Rii would not have been on the horizon for another four to six months, I'd likely have a Z8 in hand now while my bank balance would be crying about another system switch.

And don't worry, this thread might be dead soon anyway. 😉 Our beloved source of all things rumor has just announced a video-centric, 24mp camera will be revealed by Panasonic in April. Let's see.

I hear you. I was also disappointed to see the newly released DPR studio results clearly indicating that. The Nikon NEF file holds more detail at higher ISO for sure. When it comes to H.265, it is all about implimentation and we'll have to see what is not enough vs what is too much in real use. I'm not ready to make a judgement yet. The H.265 in the Z8 has been criticized for smearing and in time Panasonic might be skewered for being too aggressive with NR too, but on the contrary, I've yet to hear of compromises in detail with the S1Rii. This still is from Cam Mackey's recent video. Skip to 19:45 for more of this.

Yes, I am looking forward to exploring this - working with LUTs in camera and via the app. I initially thought it was a gimmick when & the way it was rolled out with the S9 but I'm now seeing it as quiet a powerful compliment.

Summary of the Mackay video is that he won't take a stand on which is better as they both have relative strengths. For the way he shoots, he loves the LUT implimentation and the anamorphic function over the Z8 particularly. His rolling shutter/stabilization "test" was ridiculous yet he did shred everyone obsessing over it regarding the S1Rii. Most striking to me was the shadow noise comparison with a backlit subject. Panasonic is shockingly better to my eye. He states that the Z8 noise could be readily cleaned with NR, but that is a lot of noise in hair and I think would be a bit of a mess without a lot of attention in post.

I know! It's a head-scratcher for me too.

I just stumbled upon this (i.e. the algorithm's pushed this toward me) which I'm glad for: I think this review is one of the least hype-y and quite accurately nails how I expect to use the camera for myself with, perhaps, more video-weighted work than he does. Very grounded take on the limits of rolling shutter and again I don't see this being an issue with 90% of what and how I shoot. Interesting to see the "terrible" performance of the electronic shutter with a passing train until he showed the even worse performance of the S5iix with passing train (I assume the trains were traveling at similar speeds and that he isn't cherry picking - could be wrong). His descriptions of the speed and ease of use throughout and the quality of the stills is heartening as I expect it will correct most everything that feels cumbersome in my workflow with the S1.

@eatstoomuchjam super interesting, both the analysis of the analysis and that the cameras are "plagued" in the same way. In another video (Cam Mackey maybe?) when he discussed the sensor relationship, he thought the readout speeds on the R4D were faster but seemingly not. I haven't heard of DPs decrying the R4D as unusable. I feel very confident in the S1Rii and as someone who ultimately didn't want the additional expense of switching to systems (to Nikon) with lensing, speed lights, etc. the argument that Panasonic is "behind the curve" and what have you is simply mute. It is what it is and this camera gets so much right - some of it in novel ways - that will make my work so much easier and of higher quality. If Panasonic via firmware improve RS via the ability to select a 1.1 crop at 24/30p when desired and improve thermal mgt over time, all the better. But on the latter point, I already have my workaround for interviews. And frankly, both the Z8 and Z6iii have their own compromises. IF there is a Z7iii with the improved autofocus and a non-stacked sensor, then, we'll see. It also wouldn't surprise me if the Z7's shift toward a higher megapixel count of 60+ to better differentiate from the Z8. but blah-blah-blah I am looking forward to getting past all of this speculative terrain and just getting to work with this new body.

Well, when I started coming back to EOSHD and read your laments, I knew we were on the same page. That clatchy shutter has been the reason I've almost eclusively used the S5 for video. For stills, I always grab the S1.

Well, preorder placed. If it arrives before I head out of town, the first thing I will do is record a shutter sound comparison with my S1. (Here's looking at you, @MrSMW.)

Given your budget constraints and the intention to have controlled lighting, the suggestions provided by @ironfilm are really strong. If you need to stretch your budget more, you may need to look at third-party used via eBay or FB marketplace (if you are in the US). Fredmiranda is a place I prefer to buy & sell but you need to get known there before you can PM people for purchases, which is a good thing. I picked up a perfect Panasonic 20-60mm there for $210 recently. If full-frame is a requirement for you, the Panasonic S1 has no record time limit but the S5 does - 29:59 (although that limit might now exist with an external recorder). But the S5 does have a screen that flips out and twists so that you can see yourself and see your framing once you get to work and make any adjustments. Helpful. Is filming in 422 Log necessary? Probably not. I can't speak to Nikon and NLog but having filmed so, so many hours of Panasonic's VLog, it's been robust, flexible, easy to work with, produces a beautiful image. The 150Mbps 4:2:2 4K is honestly very efficient for the file that you get and I've never felt the need to record externally with my S1.

Indeed, I would gladly eat a 1.1x crop for improved RS in the scenarios when it is critical.

I know. I never put much stock in this "test proceedure" - much more interested in real life use examples. But the reduction shown is notable too. Seems like it hinges upon filming with a 1.1x crop is the goldilocks when rolling shutter motion is a concern. Hopkins claims to be in conversations with Panasonic about a firmware that would allow 1.1x to be chosen at framerates of 30p and below.

Yeah, interesting. I had quite forgotten that it was made in L-mount (should have been obvious) until yesterday as I continue to consider jumping to a Z8 or sticking with Lumix. A shocking amount of praise for the lens, I'm finding, and agree that a 28 & 40 in one lens is perfect. What really compells me now is the potential for hybrid zoom with the S1Rii to extend the range without resolution penalty at my usual scales of output.

um... huh. Unsure what to make of this.

Anyone have any experiences with the Sigma 28-45? When covering events, a short zoom would be a treat and 1 1/3 stops faster than f2.8 would be a super treat. I'd be considering this for L-mount.

Keep in mind that if you are also a stills shooter using Capture One and if you would need to upgrade C1 to use the S1Rii, you can preorder the camera from Adorama and between the free media and the discounted C1, it is a $3k camera. This might be the first time I jump at the pre-order phase. No doubt there may be some realtive deals (open box or otherwise) by mid & late summer, but for the maybe couple hundred dollars of additional savings, I think this camera will be making my professional life much easier for months already. False color and switchable, discrete photo/video modes alone is worth several hundred over four months to me. Then pile on everything else.

Which is interesting when in the video linked just above the S1Rii's 4K/120 looked much worse than the FX3's when punched in. Now I've seen some very nice 4K/120 from the S1Rii so it's a bummer that these reviewers are not clearly stating what modes he is filming in beyond VLOG. We've read that by changing to pixel-to-pixel mode in 4K/120 maintains PDAF. Will there be other image quality impacts/improvements as well? I'm not conflating fast readout wiht image quality necessarily. Just noting things.

Which again is why I think/hope/prefer the S1Hii would not be a DSLR form-factor. People want "game changing" attributes and internal ND and fast readouts to for 8K 60P open-gate, etc. Have a body that provides the space to properly cool, to be rigged out in a streamlined way, that has the features of multi-channel, 32-bit float built-in rather than added on. Now if 8K is the limiter, I'd much prefer to skip it and have a 30mp sensor, focus on excellent open-gate 6K. If a slightly larger body could facilitate the better cooling required and for the electronics for 32-bit audio and internal electronic ND, sure, I'd be into it as a larger DSLR with all of the still capability and better low-light. But for a video-centric camera, why not go to a box?

I agree with this. I'm all for embracing constraints and I loathe the HDR look, but preserving options for choices post-capture I like.

This seems to be the case - that the S1RII needs a bit more highlight protection. The Ed Prosser video bears that out.

Totally. I appreciate all of those points.

What I appreciate about it (quite a lot, actually) is that I rarely work in controlled lighting environments. While I'm not exposing for it, I regulalry do need to work shadows three stops or a bit more. The S1 has been strong for me in this regard and I'm intrigued that this camera might be even better rather than penalized for its higher resolution, which is what I was expecting. One still from a recent project that is eblematic of the environments I'm often in. This project had both stills and video as deliverables.